Scamming At Immigration

[brokenbone]

4 minutes ago, Gecko123 said:

If the agent keeps the interest earned on the money in the account, and charges (as an earlier poster said 35,000 baht for the service), and you look at the legwork of running to immigration as "loan origination costs" then the "passbook seasoning" operation effectively becomes a loansharking operation. Consider:

 

800,000 untouched a Bangkok bank fixed term account would earn 1.62% interest (minus tax .15%) = 11,016 baht return on capital.

 

But the seasoning agent (not taking into consideration any bribes he has to pay) who is charging 35,000 baht for this service, would be earning 4.375% on his 800,000 capital expense. If the agent keeps the 11,016 in interest earned on this capital as well, this would earn a total of 46,016 baht or a 5.752% return, which is sufficiently high a rate of return to attract capital.

its still considerably cheaper then what i used to pay

for ed visas, that had no agent attached

[Thaidream]

As far as I have read , the Embassy Letter is being accepted and it is valid for 6 months and that includes the 4 Embassies who no longer issue the income letter.  

 

On this forum we have had reports of it being accepted at Chiang Mai; Chaengwattana; Jomtien; Korat and several others. There have been reports of individual IO's asking  for added documentation that an applicant actually has an income of 65K per month.

 

The OP's report about Jomtien is also accurate as I have an acquaintance that  had the Embassy Letter but could not prove his income  that he had stated on the  Embassy Letter  but as soon as he  went out the door of the imm Office- an agent  was able to get the extension for a 'fee'.

 

IMHO- going in with just the Embassy Letter may not be enough- I plan on bringing proof of monthly income and printouts of my US Bank Account showing  direct deposits in the same amount as on the Embassy Letter plus  the form letter showing  Embassy Letters  good for 6 months And also the printout of the letter from Immigration Hq requesting lenience in the first year.

 

In regards to the OP- he certainly has the required income  in the bank- and  while it may not have been seasoned properly or  transferred each month-  an exception could and should have been made.  We all know why they were playing hardball.

 

[LucysDad]

13 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

As far as I have read , the Embassy Letter is being accepted and it is valid for 6 months and that includes the 4 Embassies who no longer issue the income letter.  

 

On this forum we have had reports of it being accepted at Chiang Mai; Chaengwattana; Jomtien; Korat and several others. There have been reports of individual IO's asking  for added documentation that an applicant actually has an income of 65K per month.

 

The OP's report about Jomtien is also accurate as I have an acquaintance that  had the Embassy Letter but could not prove his income  that he had stated on the  Embassy Letter  but as soon as he  went out the door of the imm Office- an agent  was able to get the extension for a 'fee'.

 

IMHO- going in with just the Embassy Letter may not be enough- I plan on bringing proof of monthly income and printouts of my US Bank Account showing  direct deposits in the same amount as on the Embassy Letter plus  the form letter showing  Embassy Letters  good for 6 months And also the printout of the letter from Immigration Hq requesting lenience in the first year.

 

In regards to the OP- he certainly has the required income  in the bank- and  while it may not have been seasoned properly or  transferred each month-  an exception could and should have been made.  We all know why they were playing hardball.

 

 

To be clear...... Buriram Immigration stated categorically that they will not accept embassy letters.......irrespective of the British embassy “6 month validity”.

[Thaidream]

19 minutes ago, LucysDad said:

o be clear...... Buriram Immigration stated categorically that they will not accept embassy letters.......irrespective of the British embassy “6 month validity”.

Lucky I don't live in their jurisdiction- and  too bad Buriram is not following the official rules. This is a perfect example of why expats are  feeling so irritated with the system and many are voting with their feet.

[LucysDad]

9 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

Lucky I don't live in their jurisdiction- and  too bad Buriram is not following the official rules. This is a perfect example of why expats are  feeling so irritated with the system and many are voting with their feet.

 

 

I agree.

 

Rules should be transparent, understandable and consistently applied across all immigration offices.

 

I was just reporting evidence that, as we know, there is no consistency. In my case it was also a waste of £52.

 

[LucysDad]

6 hours ago, roobaa01 said:

that 800k agent service will stop nationwide as of today for the new rules kick in.

 

wbr

roobaa01

 

 

 

 

........................at least until 13th March, I heard.

[AGITATORKEN]

I did not realize they were good for 6 months. My fault for missing that one but that would just delay the problem a year. I am unwilling to pay a $50 transfer fee every month.

Why didn't you get your affidavit from your embassy, before they stopped issuing them? Valid for 6 months. Jontien immigration are still accepting them.

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[marcusarelus]

2 hours ago, mercman24 said:

just shows what a load of idiots the guys at immigration are, as one has said, how can anyone show 12 months deposits as we did not know of the new ruling until last OCTOBER ish, do they think we are all psyhic, i give up

I have mine in my bank book for 3 years.  How else would I get the money?

[marcusarelus]

2 minutes ago, AGITATORKEN said:

I did not realize they were good for 6 months. My fault for missing that one but that would just delay the problem a year. I am unwilling to pay a $50 transfer fee every month.

 

Sent from my SM-G965F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

SS charges 200 baht I think. 

[AGITATORKEN]

because once the announced they were good for 6 months, there were no appointments availiable at the American embassy. I did try.

Why didn't you get your affidavit from your embassy, before they stopped issuing them? Valid for 6 months. Jontien immigration are still accepting them.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[marcusarelus]

1 hour ago, Thaidream said:

We all know why they were playing hardball.

Not all of us.  I don't know. 

[AGITATORKEN]

Then what exactly do 600 people do at the American Embassy in Bangkok. The largest US embassy in the world and they do absolutely nothing for Americans living in Thailand.

 

The embassies could, and did, take people at their sworn word. Then, the Thai Immigrations wanted documentation of the income. This is where the respective embassies bowed out. They didn't have in inclination, let alone the staffing, to do the checking. 

On the subject of documentation, Thai Immigration will not accept documentation issue from one's own country. I had my officially issued IRA, SSI and pension statements in hand. When shown to the immigration officer, she said it had to be documented by the embassy. Since I had previous discussed these documents with my embassy, I already knew they wouldn't accept them either; they simply choose to stay out of the mix.

Back to square one!

This January, the Bangkok Immigration office accepted my embassy notarised "Affidavit of Income", issued last November.

Just in case, I had the 800,000 THB in a Thai bank as back up. 

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[Spidey]

7 minutes ago, AGITATORKEN said:

I did not realize they were good for 6 months. My fault for missing that one but that would just delay the problem a year. I am unwilling to pay a $50 transfer fee every month.

 

Sent from my SM-G965F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

 

 

3 minutes ago, AGITATORKEN said:

because once the announced they were good for 6 months, there were no appointments availiable at the American embassy. I did try.

 

Sent from my SM-G965F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

 

Make your mind up. I have an American friend who got an appointment a week before they ceased issuing them.

 

I sounds as it's all for the best. You clearly weren't happy here. This has just forced your hand. You'll probably thank them when you are settled back in the States.

 

God and Big Joke work in mysterious ways.

[Moon37]

100K a month, I could manage on that as long as I didn't have big rent to pay.

Moon: American: Non-o, at Least 3 US G paychecks per month. I used to transfer more than 100k THB per month to cover 65k min rent and golf from Boa through BB NyC to BB BBK.

BB NYC is converting to the International ACH Transfer (IAT) USA rules on moving funds is point to point direct deposit accounts
.
This has always been complex and labor intensive for most banks so you would be hard pressed. To find a bank like BB NYC to do the shuffle Without a 3rd financial institution .

Albeit,the uS Treasury has been adhering to this law and in Bb NYC opinion, they can still process from a USG originator. They have only been routinely working with Social Security. It shook the bushes- except the FM 1199 applies to most all USG pensions etc

Then the Swift /Oban route looked like a solution but some how they need the third institution?

Last week I Swift transferred 10000
THB directly from BoA to my BB BKK Savings account with my name and Bangkok address (NO APO) with no problems.




Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Spidey]

2 minutes ago, Moon37 said:

Last week I Swift transferred 10000
THB directly from BoA to my BB BKK Savings account with my name and Bangkok address (NO APO) with no problems.

Have you spent it all yet?

[marcusarelus]

24 minutes ago, AGITATORKEN said:

I did not realize they were good for 6 months. My fault for missing that one but that would just delay the problem a year. I am unwilling to pay a $50 transfer fee every month.

 

Sent from my SM-G965F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

 

You also wrote, " because once the announced they were good for 6 months, there were no appointments availiable at the American embassy. I did try. "

 

Which is it?  You messed up or no appointments available? 

 

It was reported here that there were appointments available. 

Edited March 1, 2019 by marcusarelus

[onera1961]

I'm sure one could bargain or look around to find an agent for 25K who will take care of everything. Just think of it. 25K is only $75/month or consider it as a tribute for staying in Thailand.

[JackThompson]

8 hours ago, AGITATORKEN said:

1- Embassy's stopped issuing income certification letters, probably under pressure from the Thai government.

Immigration asked them to "verify" the income from the source (British FOIA confirms this).  The embassies said, "impossible," then after 3 big ones quit issuing letters, immigration changed back to "certification" of income, per the latest rules.

 

8 hours ago, AGITATORKEN said:

2- No matter what you bring to Immigration, they will not accept. 

No, they will accept some things - but they have written the rules in such a fashion as to guarantee many who qualified before, will fail on their next extension, and ...

 

8 hours ago, AGITATORKEN said:

1- You can go to a Thai waiting outside the embassy knowing his buddy just turned you down.

2- For the tidy sum of $1,000 USD he will set up a phony bank account for you, pretend to deposit 800,000 in the account and fix it with his buddy.  You have to use his bank, which does not have internet banking for you to check the transfer.

3- My theory in reality is there is no money, the bankbook is just a piece of paper. There is no money transfer and it is a Thai scam. Pretty good income for a scam artist that earns $500/month.

... yes, immigration's partner-agents are waiting to "save you" from the situation immigration created to generate exactly this scenario. 

But, there is actual money involved in the agent-deal - deposited in the account for a few minutes - long enough to get a bank-letter.  The 3 mo seasoning that is supposed to be checked is not checked.

 

5 hours ago, AGITATORKEN said:

I did not realize there was a difference between 65000, month and 195,000 every three months, Stupid me.

In my estimation, they wrote the rules with the intent to do exactly what happened to you - increase their agent-partner revenues by tripping folks up with "monthly transfers" and no embassy-letters (from some of the largest expat-embassies here) - clearly not to ensure the applicant had money coming in.

 

The "No Tips" rule and signs, is because that money wasn't being shared up the chain - which is very different from the non-existent "No Agents" signs, which would be up at local-offices, if they really wanted to stop corruption.

Edited March 1, 2019 by JackThompson

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, marcusarelus said:

I have mine in my bank book for 3 years.  How else would I get the money?

I have to think you posted this in jest, so I will respond in a humorous fashion. 

 

Many use these little plastic things called "ATM Cards," which even work internationally, if you can believe it - a neat little invention. 

 

Evidently, Immigration doesn't know those exist yet either, which would account for demanding "cash or travelers checks only" for tourists at the airports, and their "monthly international transfers" scheme.

[JackThompson]

6 hours ago, roobaa01 said:

that 800k agent service will stop nationwide as of today for the new rules kick in.

Why?  They already skip the seasoning for agents.  Why would that change simply because the seasoning time changed?

 

6 hours ago, Olmate said:

... post application 800k seasoning will be checked randomly. You might think that agent submitted or assisted applications may not be checked randomly if at all? 

Much like home-visits, maps, pictures, TM-30s, landlord-docs, etc - only enforced on honest, in-person applicants -  which works as encouragement to use agents, instead.

 

2 hours ago, Gecko123 said:

If the agent keeps the interest earned on the money in the account, and charges (as an earlier poster said 35,000 baht for the service), and you look at the legwork of running to immigration as "loan origination costs," then the "passbook seasoning" operation can effectively be seen as a loansharking operation. Consider:

 

800,000 untouched in a Bangkok bank 3 yr fixed term account would earn 1.62% interest (minus tax .15%) = 11,016 baht return on capital for an ordinary depositor.

 

But the seasoning agent (not taking into consideration any bribes or expenses he has to pay) who is charging 35,000 baht for this service, would be earning 4.375% on his 800,000 capital expense. If the agent keeps the 11,016 in interest earned on this capital as well, this would earn a total of 46,016 baht or a 5.752% return (3.55 times more than an ordinary depositor would earn), which is a sufficiently attractive rate of return to attract capital.

Much more likely the IO just skips the seasoning-check, for part of the fee, who passes some portion of it to his boss, who passes a portion of that to his boss, right up to the top.  They likely worked out how much more they wanted at each level, then wrote the "new rules" as cover for their well-deserved "raise," for all the hard and thankless work they do.

[NanLaew]

7 hours ago, giddyup said:

Why didn't you just deposit 800,000 baht of that 1.4 mill into a fixed deposit for 3 months, that would satisfy immigration. I've been using that method for 9 years without any problems.

Because up until quite recently, the OP, like thousands of others, didn't need to?

[Moon37]

Moon: American: Non-o, at Least 3 US G paychecks per month. I used to transfer more than 100k THB per month to cover 65k min rent and golf from Boa through BB NyC to BB BBK.

BB NYC is converting to the International ACH Transfer (IAT) USA rules on moving funds is point to point direct deposit accounts
.
This has always been complex and labor intensive for most banks so you would be hard pressed. To find a bank like BB NYC to do the shuffle Without a 3rd financial institution .

Albeit,the uS Treasury has been adhering to this law and in Bb NYC opinion, they can still process from a USG originator. They have only been routinely working with Social Security. It shook the bushes- except the FM 1199 applies to most all USG pensions etc

Then the Swift /Oban route looked like a solution but some how they need the third institution?

Last week I Swift transferred 10000
THB directly from BoA to my BB BKK Savings account with my name and Bangkok address (NO APO) with no problems.




Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

MOON con’t

So far there has positive notifications about my transfer and a statement from BoA that myself to myself. BA Transfer is coded as an International-transfer. Just waiting to see if it gets kicked back by BB BKK

Speed is life life is speed - Moon


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[marcusarelus]

12 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

I have to think you posted this in jest, so I will respond in a humorous fashion. 

 

Many use these little plastic things called "ATM Cards," which even work internationally, if you can believe it - a neat little invention. 

 

Evidently, Immigration doesn't know those exist yet either, which would account for demanding "cash or travelers checks only" for tourists at the airports, and their "monthly international transfers" scheme.

I live here.  One of the reasons I like living here is the cash society.  I thought 20 years ago the USD was at a high relative the Thai baht so I moved my money from the USA to Thailand. 

[moe666]

Lets see 10 pages of replys to a non-sense incoherent post. The OP should have gotten his letter before the end of 2018 and he would have been golden

[lamyai3]

35 minutes ago, Moon37 said:

Speed is life life is speed - Moon 

Have you been at the Heisenberg Blue? 

[Maestro]

Removed a troll post and an off-topic post and replies to them.

[Maestro]

2 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

SS charges 200 baht I think. 

What do you mean with "SS" in the context of your post?

[marcusarelus]

Just now, Maestro said:

What do you mean with "SS" in the context of your post?

Social Security

[CMNightRider]

8 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

I think if the OP seasons his account at more than 800,000 baht for 3 months is it?... (and now 2 months afterwards)....  he will then meet the requirements... 

 

So.. OP - for how many months have you had more than 800,000 baht in your account?...   It may be possible to fly out and do a visa run or apply for a tourist Vientiane etc while you bide your time seasoning 800,000 baht in your account. 

 

Unless of course I'm missing something. 

 

 

EDIT: And by the way, Embassies stopping the affirmation on Income has nothing to do with the Thai's - its to do with the Embassies themselves being unable to accurately affirm the claims made on income without a great deal of effort, thus opening them up to incorrect statements. Too many people were making false claims which could not be accurately verified opening the Embassy up to criticism of flawed affirmations. 

The American Consulate clerks never had a problem collecting $50 to notarise the income letters until they were asked to verify the amount of money the person was swearing he was receiving monthly.  This simple task does not take a certified accountant to verify.  Someone with a sixth grade reading level comprehension should have no problem doing this especially since they are collecting $50 a letter.  

 

None of this comes as a surprise.  Government workers tend not to be that motivated anyway, so they should be happy now they have less work to do and still receive the same pay check.

 

Thai Immigration officers should be happy too since they will have far less foreigners to deal with that either can't or won't go alone with their plan to make the Thai bankers wealthy for doing little to no work.  

 

It looks like one big happy party, until you look at a lot of Isaan women along with their kids waving goodbye to their foreign husbands they will never see again.  Countries like Mexico, Panama, and Portugal are looking far more attractive today as retirement destinations.  I don't thing we will see anymore travel articles about retiring in Thailand either.  ????

 

 

 

  

 

      

[Maestro]

12 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

Social Security

Thank you. Because you had mentioned a fee of 200 Baht I was wracking my brain to think of a Thai bank that could possibly be meant with SS. Mystery solved.