Scamming At Immigration

[lamyai3]

4 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

Yep.

Please elaborate - I never heard of any such examples. 

[Spidey]

2 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

 

My IO categorically state the seasoning periods will be checked at your next application.

They will check the previous 12 months accounts to qualify for the next extension.

Did he state whether an agent would be able to "persuade" him to waive the previous 12 months requirements?

[jacko45k]

2 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

 

My IO categorically state the seasoning periods will be checked at your next application.

They will check the previous 12 months accounts to qualify for the next extension.

Hence it is a de facto 12 month seasoning requirement. 

[Tanoshi]

1 minute ago, jacko45k said:

That in my mind would justify a full audit and 100% check on all issued retirement extensions based on the money in the bank. They should all have matching passbook copies going back the 3 months. I have never heard of any 'issues' personally.

That's just what happened at my IO last year. An audit found an abnormality, so they did a full audit check, bring in numerous staff to check on two tables, with numerous piles of applications to sift through.

6 of the 7 staff, including the senior IO were dismissed (not redeployed) and 6 expats were arrested.

[Spidey]

1 minute ago, Tanoshi said:

That's just what happened at my IO last year. An audit found an abnormality, so they did a full audit check, bring in numerous staff to check on two tables, with numerous piles of applications to sift through.

6 of the 7 staff, including the senior IO were dismissed (not redeployed) and 6 expats were arrested.

Which IO?

[Olmate]

2 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Which IO?

Dreamland!

[Tanoshi]

1 minute ago, jacko45k said:

Hence it is a de facto 12 month seasoning requirement. 

Must have 800K in a Thai bank for 3 months after the extension is granted, then 6 months 400K, before 3 months prior to next application, so yes it's a de facto 12 month seasoning period.

[Tanoshi]

10 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Which IO?

Roi Et.

[Tanoshi]

20 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Did he state whether an agent would be able to "persuade" him to waive the previous 12 months requirements?

We don't have agents to service Visas or extension applications.

Only small minorities of certain districts have that facility, yet it spoken of as if it's a Countrywide issue.

[NanLaew]

11 hours ago, JackThompson said:

Yes, but they have these amazing "readers" which can show the available balance/credit of these newfangled things. 

Can you post a picture of these amazing card readers? I need to see if my bank will give me one.

[onera1961]

3 hours ago, Curt1591 said:

According to a 2010 census, there were 40,000 Americans living in Thailand. Ready to take up the job?

But 40,000 Americans don't require "embassy income letter". How many are on retirement visa? a percentage of that population only requires "embassy income letter"

[Thaidream]

1 minute ago, onera1961 said:

But 40,000 Americans don't require "embassy income letter". How many are on retirement visa? a percentage of that population only requires "embassy income letter"

The US Consul General during a radio interview  in Pattaya this past year indicated  75,000 plus Americans living in Thailand

 

As far as the number of Americans using the Embassy Letter- do not know- but in one day in December the Embassy issued 500 letters so  I would believe a significant  number. For example- if only 10% of the Us population in Thailand  used the letter that would be 7,500 people who now have to seek other ways to remain in Thailand- life changing for many and no real reason to end the letters.  

An accommodation could have easily been reached with Thai Imm had people of good will decided they wanted to assist their citizens.  This is evident since only 4 Embassies have declined to issue the letters- obviously they found a way to move forward.

 

 

[Tanoshi]

31 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

An accommodation could have easily been reached with Thai Imm had people of good will decided they wanted to assist their citizens.  This is evident since only 4 Embassies have declined to issue the letters- obviously they found a way to move forward.

Or if you read the events that took place and the dates concerned, you'd find that after the 4 Embassies in question stopped the service, TI amended an order to read 'Income certification certified by the Embassy/Consulate'.

 

That's a far cry from their insistence the Embassies 'verified' the incomes.

TI moved the goalposts, saving face, and thus throwing the blame on the Embassies.

[Mike Teavee]

2 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Presumably not until March 2020! 

Why is it more difficult to waive off 12 months rather than 3 months? It may just be more expensive! 

 

You would think so, but this whole thread is about an IO insisting the OP meet a 12 month requirement that were introduced 3 months ago, so who's to say that they won't do the same with the 800k in the Bank & start asking people to prove they've had at least 400K in their account for the past 12 months & kept at least 800K in the account for the 3 months following their previous extension?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[newatthis]

3 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

You would think so, but this whole thread is about an IO insisting the OP meet a 12 month requirement that were introduced 3 months ago, so who's to say that they won't do the same with the 800k in the Bank & start asking people to prove they've had at least 400K in their account for the past 12 months & kept at least 800K in the account for the 3 months following their previous extension?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry, but this thread was about an IO telling an expat that the 65,000 baht had to be deposited into a Thai bank every month [as per the law] and not 195,000 every 3 months. There was no mention that the IO wanted to see 12 months deposits at this early stage.

[Mike Teavee]

34 minutes ago, newatthis said:

Sorry, but this thread was about an IO telling an expat that the 65,000 baht had to be deposited into a Thai bank every month [as per the law] and not 195,000 every 3 months. There was no mention that the IO wanted to see 12 months deposits at this early stage.

EDIT: I clearly read the OP differently than you did, so maybe the OP could clarify whether he was refused for not having 12 month history of at least 65k deposit OR was refused because he hadn't deposited at least 65K in Jan & Feb.

 

If the former, my comments stand... if the latter then I was completely wrong & the IO was doing his job correctly to reject his extension (Appreciate the OP didn't seem to know about the change to the rules, but that's not a valid defence).

 

 

Edited March 2, 2019 by Mike Teavee
Misread the quoted post

[Spidey]

5 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

Again, there is a thread on here somewhere where a Senior IO says they will give leeway this year as people couldn't possibly know about the requirement 12 months ago to ensure they could meet it - And I think that the OPs case is a classic example of where that leeway should have been given.

Probably would have been if the OP had shown willing to play the game. Seems as though he made zero effort to play the game and went in with an attitude. Double fail.

 

 

Edited March 2, 2019 by Spidey

[roobaa01]

19 hours ago, Gecko123 said:

If the agent keeps the interest earned on the money in the account, and charges (as an earlier poster said 35,000 baht for the service), and you look at the legwork of running to immigration as "loan origination costs," then the "passbook seasoning" operation can effectively be seen as a loansharking operation. Consider:

 

800,000 untouched in a Bangkok bank 3 yr fixed term account would earn 1.62% interest (minus tax .15%) = 11,016 baht return on capital for an ordinary depositor.

 

But the seasoning agent (not taking into consideration any bribes or expenses he has to pay) who is charging 35,000 baht for this service, would be earning 4.375% on his 800,000 capital expense. If the agent keeps the 11,016 in interest earned on this capital as well, this would earn a total of 46,016 baht or a 5.752% return (3.55 times more than an ordinary depositor would earn), which is a sufficiently attractive rate of return to attract capital.

1. crowd funding

2. reality no, went yesterday to soi 5 jomtien and asked 2 agents answer was no.

 

wbr

roobaa01

[Vacuum]

On 3/1/2019 at 5:16 AM, roobaa01 said:

that 800k agent service will stop nationwide as of today for the new rules kick in.

 

wbr

roobaa01

...in your dreams.

[roobaa01]

6 minutes ago, Vacuum said:

...in your dreams.

proof required where, when, who, how ???

 

wbr

roobaa01

[AGITATORKEN]

On 3/1/2019 at 12:12 PM, CharlieH said:

And exactly where/which office did this happen ?

Jomtiem

[AGITATORKEN]

1 hour ago, newatthis said:

Sorry, but this thread was about an IO telling an expat that the 65,000 baht had to be deposited into a Thai bank every month [as per the law] and not 195,000 every 3 months. There was no mention that the IO wanted to see 12 months deposits at this early stage.

Calming down since I wrote SCAMMING AT IMMIGRATION, I still maintain it is simply a Thai scam by dishonest officials but I am blaming the wrong people.  The scammer probably gets a small cut of the profits and the poor guy that is turning people away at the counter and taking all the flack is probably receiving nothing. That poor guy is just following orders and it is undoubtedly his bosses, bosses, bosses, bosses, boss that is getting the real money.  Maybe even a couple of levels higher.  Everybody at every level understands how the system works in Thailand and like it or not, they do what they have to do to survive.  The US is the same but it just goes to much higher levels. 

 

For the idiot that maintains rules are rules and I am a dummy, I will have to say you are unrealistic.  Undoubtedly some retired peon government official that never accomplished anything in their life.   Probably a cop.  Thailand and all Asian countries are famous for making unrealistic rules to enable them to collect bribes.  I was unaware the letters were good for six months and when they announced it there were no appointments availiable.  That would have just delayed the issue another year because I am not willing to pay a large transfer fee to bring money in monthly, and it is an dumb technical rule to enable Thai officials to collect bribes.  Furthermore, if you think that Thai is actually depositing Bt 800,000 in your account legally, you are a bigger idiot than I thought. 

 

For me, it is the last straw.  I have had a retirement Visa for 11 years, spend money in Thailand every year, break no laws, and love the people.  I am the expat they want to keep.  No, a Bt 35,000 bribe wont bankrupt me but I have had it. I have also been scammed out of a lot of money at a Thai hospital and it is just plain getting stale.  I am aging and have health issues and I don't feel safe at the mercy of Thai doctors who are worse scam artists than the Taxi drivers.  I have a hideously inflated hospital bill to back up my claims. 

 

Sadly, I feel I am forced to sell my condo and return to the States.  I love living here and am sad to leave.  

[smedly]

4 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

 

My IO categorically state the seasoning periods will be checked at your next application.

They will check the previous 12 months accounts to qualify for the next extension.

ha ha and if you don't qualify there will be an agent waiting outside to sort it for 100k baht lol

[jacko45k]

2 hours ago, Mike Teavee said:

You would think so, but this whole thread is about an IO insisting the OP meet a 12 month requirement that were introduced 3 months ago, so who's to say that they won't do the same with the 800k in the Bank & start asking people to prove they've had at least 400K in their account for the past 12 months & kept at least 800K in the account for the 3 months following their previous extension?

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am sort of waiting to hear...

Although the changes wrt money in the bank only came into force a few days ago. 

[Spidey]

1 hour ago, AGITATORKEN said:

Calming down since I wrote SCAMMING AT IMMIGRATION, I still maintain it is simply a Thai scam by dishonest officials but I am blaming the wrong people.  The scammer probably gets a small cut of the profits and the poor guy that is turning people away at the counter and taking all the flack is probably receiving nothing. That poor guy is just following orders and it is undoubtedly his bosses, bosses, bosses, bosses, boss that is getting the real money.  Maybe even a couple of levels higher.  Everybody at every level understands how the system works in Thailand and like it or not, they do what they have to do to survive.  The US is the same but it just goes to much higher levels. 

 

For the idiot that maintains rules are rules and I am a dummy, I will have to say you are unrealistic.  Undoubtedly some retired peon government official that never accomplished anything in their life.   Probably a cop.  Thailand and all Asian countries are famous for making unrealistic rules to enable them to collect bribes.  I was unaware the letters were good for six months and when they announced it there were no appointments availiable.  That would have just delayed the issue another year because I am not willing to pay a large transfer fee to bring money in monthly, and it is an dumb technical rule to enable Thai officials to collect bribes.  Furthermore, if you think that Thai is actually depositing Bt 800,000 in your account legally, you are a bigger idiot than I thought. 

 

For me, it is the last straw.  I have had a retirement Visa for 11 years, spend money in Thailand every year, break no laws, and love the people.  I am the expat they want to keep.  No, a Bt 35,000 bribe wont bankrupt me but I have had it. I have also been scammed out of a lot of money at a Thai hospital and it is just plain getting stale.  I am aging and have health issues and I don't feel safe at the mercy of Thai doctors who are worse scam artists than the Taxi drivers.  I have a hideously inflated hospital bill to back up my claims. 

 

Sadly, I feel I am forced to sell my condo and return to the States.  I love living here and am sad to leave.  

So, all is revealed your a conspiracy theorist. Who shot JFK? Did man land on the moon? Who really rules the world? Nut job.

 

BTW, I'm neither a peon, ex cop or government official, just an ordinary Joe who has managed to retain his sanity, but I am someone that did some forward planning to make sure that my extension application went off without a hitch.

 

What makes you think that Thailand want's to keep you? You need to get your head out of your backside, tone down your self importance and get a one way ticket home. I'm sure the Thai authorities will wave you off.

[Tanoshi]

54 minutes ago, smedly said:

ha ha and if you don't qualify there will be an agent waiting outside to sort it for 100k baht lol

I already qualify.

No agents in this Province.

[JackThompson]

2 hours ago, AGITATORKEN said:

Furthermore, if you think that Thai is actually depositing Bt 800,000 in your account legally, you are a bigger idiot than I thought. 

They actually do this.  It shows up on one's account history going in and out.  A "real" bank-letter is generated in the meantime.  They keep your ATM and bank-book during the process, and only work with a couple banks only (several I talked to - and Bangkok Bank was one of them).  If you don't have an account at one of those banks, they help you open one to make the transaction possible.

 

That said, I do not blame you for not wanting to go the agent-route.  I did not use their service either - went for a new 1-year Non-O-ME Visa, instead.  It will cost me more for the year in total, including hassle/cost of out/in runs every 3 mo, but at least it is 100% legal. 

[JackThompson]

5 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

We don't have agents to service Visas or extension applications.

Only small minorities of certain districts have that facility, yet it spoken of as if it's a Countrywide issue.

Those "small minorities" of areas where the vast majority of Farangs live have agents.  They are the target - the rest are just collateral damage.

 

For married-to-a-Thai, most of the "hoops" seem to come from upper-levels.  I suspect this is because the financials are lower, so fewer need to fake the money, so they use other "dis-incentives" to in-person applications, to drive up agent-use for those.  Of course, this means those hoops may affect people out in the sticks who may not even have an agent available - but the higher-ups don't care, since they also hit the primary expat population areas where agents are available.  Because those hoops exist, IOs with no agent-partners see these extensions as a PITA, so do everything in their power to avoid doing them, including adding even more hoops.

 

Similar is now happening with retirement with the rule-changes; they affect everyone, but the agent-profits will come from the primary expat population areas.  The rest suffer, but what do the bosses' bosses care?  They will not hesitate to throw their remote-area IOs into paperwork-hell, while shafting honest-expats and de-employing the Thais whose jobs depend on expat-spending. 

 

Decent, compassionate people would not do this, and most not even conceive of it - unless/until it smacks them in the face - which is why so many decent expats cannot see / will not accept what is happening and why.

[AGITATORKEN]

anology not apology

I appreciate your apology as I have a MBA and if it was legitimate it makes perfect sense. The bottom line is there is no money transfer, it I's a paper forged book and immigration is in on the scam. Furthermore, there is no reason for this nonsense. I am a good expat pumping money into their economy.


Sent from my SM-G965F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

Sent from my SM-G965F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[DrJack54]

10 minutes ago, AGITATORKEN said:

You are an idiot. Enough time wasted on an idiot's that does not see this for what it is. A way for Thai government officials to scam money out of foreigners.

 

Sent from my SM-G965F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

 

Hasn't this thread/rant run its course. Surely a wind up. No one is that crazy.