Expats in Thailand considering moving to Latin America prompted by Thai visa changes

[GinBoy2]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

I'm hearing different information.

For example a provincial small city of Armenia  CO I'm hearing --

Most adults don't speak English

Younger people are widely studying it to prepare for business and local tourism industry (but that doesn't necessarily mean they will be able to speak it)

Even doctors don't all speak English

Such a small number of expats and even gringo tourists, that the general advice is you better speak some Spanish just to do basic things … apartments and landlords, banking, basic services, shopping, taxis, delivery ordering, and of course socializing. Buenos Dias every time is about as charming as just Sawadee Khrap everyday. No connections with that.

 

Also a place like Queretaro MX which is large more cosmopolitan city, I'm hearing similar things, again and again. Its for expats that speak Spanish. If you don't or won't learn it, then go to San Miguel or Vallarta, etc.

 

Exceptions are industry expats that move to the suburbs and get support from their employers. 

 

When I hear the same thing from very many diverse sources, I'm inclined to believe it. 

 

Well I always advise any expat to speak the language of the country, hence I speak Thai & Lao, makes my time in Thailand better, if more frustrating since I actually understand the nonsense around me.

 

In my experience in Columbia, I'd have to say more Colombians speak English than Thai's, and good English too.

Now I've never been to a Doctor, or had to deal with any official, so my interactions are all social. But my wife who speaks no Spanish at all feels totally fine there 

[Jingthing]

Well I'm happy to hear about your experience but I think it really depends on WHERE in Colombia. But of course speaking the language is the only way to get closer to the culture. 

[JaiLai]

You're partly exactly right.
Troll posts are not welcome.
Flames / name calling are not welcome.
Off topic posts are not welcome.
Rants from people that are clearly not at all interested in the topic, but are instead only posting to be destructive and try to kill the thread are not welcome.
The only types of posts that belong on this thread are clearly indicated in the O.P.
Not interested in the topic of CONSIDERING expatriation destinations in Latin America?
Then this thread is not for you.
I see a thread about knitting and I glance the topic headline and move on.
What is so hard?!?

But you’ve even said you’re not considering moving????

It’s like speaking about buying a car if you can’t drive... pointless


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[Jingthing]

But you’ve even said you’re not considering moving????

 

It’s like speaking about buying a car if you can’t drive... pointless

 

 

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I said whatza?I guess you're referring to a sarcastic post and I'm so sorry you didn't get that.

So it's not only Americans that don't get sarcasm?

Why are you obsessed with my personal decisions anyway?

For the zillionth time I am researching and considering a move to Latin America.

I am even studying Spanish.

I won't consider actually moving there if I can't manage to learn Spanish.

I have started that but do not have confidence that I really can yet.

I may be soon starting a course that takes two years. Will I actually succeed in that and reach Spanish functionality?

I don't know yet.

I am not now and have never committed to moving to Latin America. Or even doing additional exploration trips which are very expensive from Thailand.

I am only considering it at this stage. Considering is not committing.

That's a basic difference everyone should be able to get.

Some may wonder then why learn Spanish.

Its useless in Thailand.

Yes it is.

Turns out I like Spanish and even from Thailand I can enjoy Spanish language music, movies, and TV in their native language. Hope to get into using chat exchange apps. If it turns out I never really need the Spanish for where I live well at least it's a good thing to keep my older brain working and growing. It would also be useful in case I repatriate as the USA is a very major Spanish speaking nation. If I fail to make sufficient progress with Spanish then that would mean the moving there is out for me. If I succeed that would increase the chances of going ahead with it but still not necessarily.

My very comfortable setup in Thailand is very hard to leave. As stated in the OP the visa changes are a push out factor. But I'm not there yet and maybe never will be.

We all make these types of decisions based on complex personal factors.

No two people have the same situation.

Let's respect each other's choices and time frames for making these big choices whether it is staying, repatriating, or moving to another expat nation in Latin America, Asean, or elsewhere.

 

Our Captain on this thread made the choice to repatriate. That was the right choice for him at this time.

 

This thread isn't about pushing anyone to do anything specific. Stay in Thailand, repatriate, or third country expatriation are all valid options.

 

Cheers

 

 

 

 

 

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[Jingthing]

Mexico. Not the cheapest expat choice in Latin America or other regions. But very popular with Canadians and Americans.

 

 

[Jingthing]

This is kind of funny. An example of how thinking about things can change your perspective.

As I've said before I have traveled many places in Mexico. Of the places I've visited Puerto Vallarta would be my top choice to live in, but I'm clear I can't afford it, and there are also some other strong downsides -- super hot hot season, tropical storms, etc.

Other than that there is one other place that I've spent significant time in in Mexico that I did like enough to think it would be a good place to live -- Guadalajara. The big city of Jalisco, Vallarta is also in Jalisco.

Now I have rejected Guadalajara before because when I did stay there, it didn't feel safe enough.

I'm not sure about the current safety issues there but considering I'm still considering Medellin and some other Colombian cities that nobody is saying are the safest places in the world either, maybe Guadalajara is worth another look?

It's an amazing city, second largest in Mexico, wonderful historic central district, amazing food, sizzling nightlife, pleasant mild climate.

Being a seriously big city, there are just a lot more choices for all kinds of things.

For example multiple restaurants to get Vietnamese Pho!

Being a very major international tourism and business destination in itself, I'm assuming an initial lower level of Spanish functionality would be more doable than other more provincial places.

So just a thought for now. I'll want to research the cost of housing in safer areas, other costs, etc. I already know that I like the city so that is a start.

I'm assuming it's more expensive than Queretaro/Guanajuato/Morelia, etc. but probably not as expensive as Mexico City, Vallarta, etc. But I don't know yet.

 

I do realize the vast majority of retired expats in the Guadalajara area are in Lake Chapala, Ajijic. I've been there and can't picture myself there.

Edited April 5, 2019 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

There was a member or two that posted about possible tensions in Mexico towards Americans living there (apparently about a million) directly related to the political conflicts and tensions due to current events we don't need to specifically discuss here.

 

I had minimized that as a trivial concern, but there may be more to it which you can read and listen about at this site. 

 

https://cronkitenews.azpbs.org/buffett/mexico/

 

https://cronkitenews.azpbs.org/buffett/mexico/complicated/

 

https://cronkitenews.azpbs.org/buffett/mexico/future/

 

Edited April 5, 2019 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

OK, there is always something.

Looking a bit into Guadalajara I am finding they have a very serious air pollution problem.

That's something I'm trying to get away from, so that could be a GDL deal breaker for me.

I'm assuming a much smaller big city such as Queretaro would not be as bad simply based on the much smaller size. 

Although I have rejected the gringo towns of Chapala/Ajijic, I am seeing the appeal of perhaps the even more famous gringo town -- San Miguel Allende.

That seems to offer so much. Charm. Beauty. Large Anglo population. Comfort and support of that, Art. Culture. Foodie stuff. Negatives being perhaps too small of a town and hordes of tourists. But the real question for me is the expense. It's obviously more expensive than Queretaro or Guanajuato but how much more expensive? Not clear on that. I'm wondering if it's "only" an extra 200 to 300 a month to live there that it may be worth it.

 

 

Edited April 6, 2019 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

Now for something completely different.

Xalapa Veracruz.

Gulf coast side.

Very few expats. 

Would need Spanish.

But culturally rich.

In a coffee growing region.

Smaller city.

Lots of students.

Great food. 

Not a tourist spot like SMA so it would be significantly lower cost.

Not likely to ever get ruined by over tourism or expat invasion.

Seems a bit too hilly for comfort.

Interesting climate, high elevation, not perfect, rainy sometimes, sometimes gets cold and hot but overall on the moderate cooler side but also somewhat humid.

One of my best friends growing up moved there to be in their symphony orchestra but I lost track of her. I know she liked it but she did complain -- Mexico is noisy! Day and night!

More for the expat pioneer types rather than those seeking more safety in numbers. 

 

 

Edited April 6, 2019 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

Uh oh!

Xalapa is on International Living's radar.

Still, I doubt it will ever be very expat popular.

Quote

 

3 Places to Live Like a Local Overseas in Retirement

Here's how to find the ideal balance of culture and convenience.

 

https://money.usnews.com/money/blogs/on-retirement/articles/2017-06-29/3-places-to-live-like-a-local-overseas-in-retirement

 

The people there are known as Xalapeños or Jalapeños as in the famous peppers. I love that.

 

Foodie Alert!
Now I'm getting more interested.

Quote

A culinary tour of Xalapa: Dining in the home of Jalapeños

 

http://www.mexconnect.com/articles/2213-a-culinary-tour-of-xalapa-dining-in-the-home-of-jalapeños

Edited April 6, 2019 by Jingthing

[CaptainJack]

My old girlfriend sent me this.  The article is in Thai.  

 

https://today.line.me/TH/article/KyZ1Xm?utm_source=lineshare

Edited April 6, 2019 by CaptainJack

[grifbel]

16 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Now for something completely different.

Xalapa Veracruz.

Gulf coast side.

Very few expats. 

Would need Spanish.

But culturally rich.

In a coffee growing region.

LOL.  Keep trying.

Veracruz is one of Mexico's most dangerous areas for cartels.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-45442402

Mexico violence: Remains of 166 found in Veracruz mass grave

Long running turf war over different parts of country, including Veracruz

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-40480405

 

 

Edited April 7, 2019 by grifbel

[Jingthing]

LOL.  Keep trying.

Veracruz is one of Mexico's most dangerous areas for cartels.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-45442402

Mexico violence: Remains of 166 found in Veracruz mass grave

Long running turf war over different parts of country, including Veracruz

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-40480405

 

 

That's rather dated info. Xalapa is mostly known as a college town with an unusual amount of cultural attractions. It's two hours from Veracruz city on the coast. It would be important to know the current cartel violence situation though before considering moving there though.

 

In any case it does sound like an interesting place to visit at least as a tourist.

 

I did some research and found some less sensational reasons to reject it as a retirement destination.

 

Those include

 

Climate change. The city has greatly expanded and a lot of forest has been cleared. During the hotter season aircon was not needed before. Now it is.

 

Humidity throughout the seasons.

 

Infernal traffic congestion in the central area. Parking a nightmare if you have a car.

 

No airport closer than Veracruz city. We'll there is an airport but they stopped commercial flights.

 

Last but not least. It is very hilly. As people age they tend to have more mobility issues. So for people like me that don't want to run a vehicle moving to a very hilly city seems unwise.

 

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[Joe Mcseismic]

Expats in Thailand considering moving to Latin America?

Don't you mean Jingthing and a few Americans are thinking about it?

Why don't you stop thinking about it and just do it. You've had long enough to think about it.

[NanLaew]

29 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

That's rather dated info. Xalapa is mostly known as a college town with an unusual amount of cultural attractions. It's two hours from Veracruz city on the coast. It would be important to know the current cartel violence situation though before considering moving there though.

 

In any case it does sound like an interesting place to visit at least as a tourist.

 

I did some research and found some less sensational reasons to reject it as a retirement destination.

 

Those include

 

Climate change. The city has greatly expanded and a lot of forest has been cleared. During the hotter season aircon was not needed before. Now it is.

 

Humidity throughout the seasons.

 

Infernal traffic congestion in the central area. Parking a nightmare if you have a car.

 

No airport closer than Veracruz city. We'll there is an airport but they stopped commercial flights.

 

Last but not least. It is very hilly. As people age they tend to have more mobility issues. So for people like me that don't want to run a vehicle moving to a very hilly city seems unwise.

 

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I worked in the countryside around Poza Rica in Veracruz state for about 3 months about 18 years ago. It wasn't very safe back then and that was just the farmers. The local food choices were pretty dire as I recall.

[bendejo]

On 3/4/2019 at 4:07 AM, Jingthing said:

Toilets matter.

Argentina.

The flush tank is built into the wall over the throne.  A big, mechanical push-button protrudes from the wall, and you press it to flush.  Great, no unsightly tank.  But when the things in the tank need servicing it involves removing tiles, and then replacing them, working with grout, caulk, etc.   Brilliant.

 

I've lived in Brazil, Arg, and Uruguay.  Haven't been down there since 2011 when the Arg peso was not quite 4 to the US$.  It is now 44:1

You may find this hard to believe if you don't already know, but Arg was one of the first countries to legalize gay marriage.

I liked Uruguay.  It is the only truly non consumer-oriented economy I have encountered.  No doubt there are people in Montevideo who live otherwise.  Oh yeah, there's only one real city in the country.  The coast is nice, problem is it fills up with Argies in the summer months.  I dread having anything to do with the gov't.  I would do a border run for a new 3 month VOA rather than go through the red tape (same in Arg).  Uruguay has (had?) this piece of business where a landlord can ask for a deposit of six (6!) times a month's rent -- that requires more trust than I can muster.

Brazil is presently changing it's visa policy for Yanks, or so I've been told. 

 

 

[Luckysilk]

6 hours ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

Expats in Thailand considering moving to Latin America?

Don't you mean Jingthing and a few Americans are thinking about it?

Why don't you stop thinking about it and just do it. You've had long enough to think about it.

 

Not a chance I'd step foot anywhere near the entire region, been there on biz and visiting my family (who are getting the hell out.)
Escobar wannabes, express kidnappings, scopolamine, armed gangs, fake cops, terrorism threats, street crime, extortion, muggings, pickpockets, don’t go out at night, drugs, avoid using your cell phone in public, political instability and the list goes on and on and on.
 

[balo]

Colombia tempts me a bit. I am willing to try it, just for 6 months.

Look at it as an adventure. ???? 

[balo]

[Jingthing]

Expats in Thailand considering moving to Latin America?

Don't you mean Jingthing and a few Americans are thinking about it?

Why don't you stop thinking about it and just do it. You've had long enough to think about it.

I have already addressed this several times.

I will no longer humor ill intentioned pest type posts on this thread.

Read the thread and you will have your answer.

I am not obligated to answer the same type of pest posts 100 times. Thus I won't.

 

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[Jingthing]

Colombia tempts me a bit. I am willing to try it, just for 6 months.

Look at it as an adventure. [emoji12] 

Yes it's becoming popular for good reasons.

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[Joe Mcseismic]

8 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I have already addressed this several times.
I will no longer humor ill intentioned pest type post on this thread.
Read the thread and you will have your answer.
I am not obligated to answer the same type of pest posts 100 times.

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Wow! That put me in my place (snigger).

Stop being so precious.

Edited April 7, 2019 by Joe Mcseismic

[Jingthing]

I worked in the countryside around Poza Rica in Veracruz state for about 3 months about 18 years ago. It wasn't very safe back then and that was just the farmers. The local food choices were pretty dire as I recall.

Sure but Xelapa is a good sized city and has a reputation for wonderful food. I think it's worth a visit as a tourist.

 

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[Jingthing]

 

Not a chance I'd step foot anywhere near the entire region, been there on biz and visiting my family (who are getting the hell out.)

Escobar wannabes, express kidnappings, scopolamine, armed gangs, fake cops, terrorism threats, street crime, extortion, muggings, pickpockets, don’t go out at night, drugs, avoid using your cell phone in public, political instability and the list goes on and on and on.

 

Now tell us how you really feel.

So don't go there.

Why haunt this topic if you have zero interest in living in Latin America?

I think we all agree that overall Thailand is safer than Latin America as far as crime. But Thailand has other risks that are arguably worse overall than Latin America such as traffic hazards.

Safety is a big concern for sure.

That's one reason why Queretaro an unusually safe bigger city in Mexico is still high on my list.

 

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[Jingthing]

Wow! That put me in my place (snigger).
Stop being so precious.

That all you got?
Bye.

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[Jingthing]

Argentina.

The flush tank is built into the wall over the throne.  A big, mechanical push-button protrudes from the wall, and you press it to flush.  Great, no unsightly tank.  But when the things in the tank need servicing it involves removing tiles, and then replacing them, working with grout, caulk, etc.   Brilliant.

 

I've lived in Brazil, Arg, and Uruguay.  Haven't been down there since 2011 when the Arg peso was not quite 4 to the US$.  It is now 44:1

You may find this hard to believe if you don't already know, but Arg was one of the first countries to legalize gay marriage.

I liked Uruguay.  It is the only truly non consumer-oriented economy I have encountered.  No doubt there are people in Montevideo who live otherwise.  Oh yeah, there's only one real city in the country.  The coast is nice, problem is it fills up with Argies in the summer months.  I dread having anything to do with the gov't.  I would do a border run for a new 3 month VOA rather than go through the red tape (same in Arg).  Uruguay has (had?) this piece of business where a landlord can ask for a deposit of six (6!) times a month's rent -- that requires more trust than I can muster.

Brazil is presently changing it's visa policy for Yanks, or so I've been told. 

 

 

Hi there. Well as I mentioned before I loved my long stay in Buenos Aires. I felt safe walking alone late at night there too but of course I wasn't seeking out slums. Common sense anywhere really.

 

I've largely already rejected Argentina myself for reasons I won't repeat.

 

I don't qualify for the Uruguay retirement program but most people probably can. If I did it would be up on my list. Either Montevideo or a beach city.

 

I welcome people that are interested in Argentina and Uruguay to post information relevant to this topic. Moving from Thailand to there. I do know Argentina is nutso on needing documents with apostle.

 

Yes Brazil has a new far right wing antigay leader and thus is quite cozy with the leadership in Washington. I reckon any loosening will be about tourist visas not retirement visas. Personally no interest anyway. Been there. Was mugged.

 

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[NCC1701A]

how is Captain Jack doing?

 

has he been kidnapped by the Shining Path Guerillas yet?

[JaiLai]

Sure but Xelapa is a good sized city and has a reputation for wonderful food. I think it's worth a visit as a tourist.  
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When u going?


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[seasia]

Just now, NCC1701A said:

how is Captain Jack doing?

 

has he been kidnapped by the Shining Path Guerillas yet?

According to his last post is heading back to US, maybe  next month.

Gave his reasons.

 

Enjoyed his posts and wherever he ends up hope he carries on posting.

 

Comes across as a decent guy.

[Jingthing]

how is Captain Jack doing?

 

has he been kidnapped by the Shining Path Guerillas yet?

He said he is repatriating to Austin Texas. Good on him. Great place. I can't afford it or indeed anyplace even a tiny bit decent in the US.

 

Shining path is Peru right? I thought that was over.

 

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