Expats in Thailand considering moving to Latin America prompted by Thai visa changes

[Jingthing]

One guy's subjective top three retirement destinations in Mexico.

 

- Oaxaca

- Guanajuato

- Queretaro

 

I've only been to Oaxaca. I loved visiting there and highly recommend it for that, but as I mentioned before it just didn't quite feel quite right to me as a place to live. Why? I guess overall I found it too slow and too provincial. 

 

Guanajuato I've already rejected as a place to live -- too small and too hilly.

 

There then is Queretaro. Pros and cons. It's a real modern cosmopolitan working city with a very Mexican core, with all that offers anywhere in the world. Maybe as people get older they want more slow though. I'm wondering if I should consider Oaxaca again. It's been many years since I visited and I might feel differently about it now. In any case, the Oaxaca style food is very distinctive, and very fantastic. 

 

 

[mtls2005]

Santiago de Querétaro looks interesting. Thanks.

 

Weather looks like a huge plus.

[Jingthing]

55 minutes ago, mtls2005 said:

Santiago de Querétaro looks interesting. Thanks.

 

Weather looks like a huge plus.

Indeed it does and it's hard to pronounce which will tend to reduce it becoming too popular with gringos. Where dyall move to again? Queertarpo? What do they eat there? Queertacos? 

[marcusarelus]

USA 9th Circuit Judge just ruled Mexico is too dangerous for migrants - yesterday I guess he didn't mean expats. 

 

https://af.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idAFKCN1RK2EO

[Jingthing]

USA 9th Circuit Judge just ruled Mexico is too dangerous for migrants - yesterday I guess he didn't mean expats. 
 
https://af.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idAFKCN1RK2EO

Border cites where they would be waiting. But you knew that already right?

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[marcusarelus]

27 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Border cites where they would be waiting. But you knew that already right?

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

My best friend moved from Thailand to Rocky Point in Mexico 10 years ago.  I keep track of the crime in that nice tourist city.  Dangerous.  Too dangerous for me. 

[Jingthing]

15 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

My best friend moved from Thailand to Rocky Point in Mexico 10 years ago.  I keep track of the crime in that nice tourist city.  Dangerous.  Too dangerous for me. 

Understood. I personally have no interest in that area of Mexico anyway. It mostly attracts Arizonans as it's in a special closer to border zone. So they drive in.

[Jingthing]

30 minutes ago, andy said:

I visited Oaxaca last year.  As a place to live full-time, it just seems too small.  Great for a visit and I totally agree about the food, I still have visions of those oaxacan tamales...wow. 

 

Mexico City has some great areas if you afford the rents.

I'm not surprised. I hadn't been in a long time so thought it might have a different feel by now. I recently saw an item about Guadalajara that was relevant to me. It said that Guadalajara's colonial central area is usually kind of dead at night and that that city might be better for people with cars. The big mystery to me about Queretaro is that even though I know the central colonial area is lively day and night, what's the situation for living close enough to that area as far as not having a car. I think the working expat suburbs are nice for that kind of thing, and for that you do need a car. But I'm getting mixed information on how walking / public transport friendly the city really is.

 

This video is very encouraging about the idea of living there without a car, downtown but not directly in the colonial zone --

 

Start at 6:58

 

 

 

But this guy, an English teacher expat also living downtown, paints a somewhat less rosy picture of living there without a car.

 

 

 

 

 

I definitely see the appeal of Mexico City, but no, I don't think I can afford the rents.

[Jingthing]

I find this video quite fascinating.

It gives a real feel for Queretaro as well as checking whether numbeo.com cost estimates for this city are accurate. Spoiler alert -- they mostly are.

I'm not surprised because being a big city there would be a lot of price info contributors.

But what was especially encouraging to me is what they say about the cost of more central apartments rather than in the burbs.

In a U.S. city these days, more central housing in decent, safe, interesting areas that don't require a car would be premium priced. Very much so.

They're saying that in Queretaro because the new industry jobs that pay decent money are outside the city, the more expensive housing tends to be outside the city.

So expat retirees not involved in the industries there would have a chance at desirable housing more suitable for their needs, more central, for affordable prices. They've got a centrally locate 2 bedroom for 350 monthly. Sounds good to me!

 

 

 

Here's the sample very expensive they tried for their test.

https://www.tripadvisor.com/Restaurant_Review-g479232-d3727590-Reviews-Tikua_Sur_Este-Queretaro_City_Central_Mexico_and_Gulf_Coast.html

 

[Jingthing]

It's always something (or many things). 

Reading some Spanish language sources, I'm hearing locals are feeling unhappy about the masses of migrants to Queretaro from within Mexico, and possibly other countries in Latin America as well. It's putting pressure on housing costs, creating ridiculous traffic, etc.

But in that context, the general consensus is that the costs there are relatively high for Mexicans but the benefits of living there are worth it. 

I've not heard any specific hostility towards gringo retired expats or digital nomads though. I reckon that's probably because relative to the large population, they are barely on people's radar. 

Perhaps someday the locals will be shouting at gringos -- go home to San Miguel de Allende, build a wall and the gringos will pay for it,  but I doubt that will happen anytime soon. 

[Jingthing]

Now to share a free trial offer for Pimsleur languages.

Their normal monthly subscription is about 14 dollars a month.

Is it better than always free duolingo?

I don't know.

 

https://offers.pimsleur.com/free-trial-1407-intl?utm_source=&utm_medium=&utm_campaign=

[Odysseus123]

As you say.."Enjoy each miserable day" as you are not going anywhere.

 

I stand a better chance of speaking Spanish than do you..

 

Same goes for "Marcusarelius" who isn't going anywhere either.

[Jingthing]

Just now, Odysseus123 said:

As you say.."Enjoy each miserable day" as you are not going anywhere.

 

I stand a better chance of speaking Spanish then do you..

 

Same goes for "Marcusarelius" who isn't going anywhere either.

Yeah, given my history with languages, I can't say I'm super confident about that. At least these days there are hacks, instant translation of websites, google voice translate, etc. 

[marcusarelus]

2 minutes ago, Odysseus123 said:

As you say.."Enjoy each miserable day" as you are not going anywhere.

 

I stand a better chance of speaking Spanish than do you..

 

Same goes for "Marcusarelius" who isn't going anywhere either.

I speak Spanish because I managed a group of businesses in South Texas and I have a daughter who was a USA government translator from Spanish to English in court.  I called my buddy who moved from Thailand to Mexico and asked him why he lived in Mexico rather than Arizona thinking I might get some good information.  He told me, "I live in Mexico so I can visit Thailand more often."  I have no idea what that means except maybe he is getting senile.  He'll be here in August and I'll ask him.

[Jingthing]

This nomad capitalist guy (a bit too Ayn Randian for my tastes, but interesting) considers retirement places if you've got a million USD. I assume he's talking about younger people. Older people that have pensions could arguably do similar with much less than the full million. He picks two places in Latin America -- Colombia and Paraguay. He's down on Asia and down on any country that is dollarized or Euroized. Which is interesting because Ecuador is dollarized and it's currently considered among the more affordable expat destinations in Latin America. For the purposes of the topic of the video, he's pushing buying a house to lock in your housing cost. Yeah, I get that, but again maybe more relevant for younger retirees as if you're older the number of years of risk of rents getting out of hand are less. Before he did push buying real estate in Cambodia, which he says has now tripled, but that's an example of place going in now you'd have housing costs risks over time. It's worth noting this guy has abandoned U.S. citizenship. He mentions a lot of Eastern European choices in the video that are interesting, but are OFF TOPIC for this thread. Perhaps someone else would like to start a new topic similar to this own about EASTERN EUROPEAN alternatives to Thailand?

 

 

 

 

[seasia]

Hi

 

Just watched the video, not too keen on him but did like his points about interest rates on some of his preferred choices.

That made a bit of sense to me.

I do not agree with his view of avoiding US or Euro centric countries.

The former is the No.1 currency in the world.

 

As to buying property , agree with you rather than him.

If young, yes, maybe but when older maybe not.

 

On a personal basis, still retain my property in my birth country but it ( UK ) is not one I would really want to live in.

Climate does not suit.

 

Colombia and Mexico have nice climates( those being the 2 Latin America countries I have spent most time looking in to.}

 

Plenty of other choices out there.

 

As to your comments about topics on different region choices, I did actually start one, which would include Eastern Europe.

 

I know you want this , your topic to stick to Latin America and early on some posters did mention European alternatives ( yep Off Topic )

 

I started one, hope you do not mind me posting a link to it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Odysseus123]

1 minute ago, seasia said:

Hi

 

Just watched the video, not too keen on him but did like his points about interest rates on some of his preferred choices.

That made a bit of sense to me.

I do not agree with his view of avoiding US or Euro centric countries.

The former is the No.1 currency in the world.

 

As to buying property , agree with you rather than him.

If young, yes, maybe but when older maybe not.

 

On a personal basis, still retain my property in my birth country but it ( UK ) is not one I would really want to live in.

Climate does not suit.

 

Colombia and Mexico have nice climates( those being the 2 Latin America countries I have spent most time looking in to.}

 

Plenty of other choices out there.

 

As to your comments about topics on different region choices, I did actually start one, which would include Eastern Europe.

 

I know you want this , your topic to stick to Latin America and early on some posters did mention European alternatives ( yep Off Topic )

 

I started one, hope you do not mind me posting a link to it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's really simple.Try but do not buy.

[marcusarelus]

So far by way of keeping score there are a lot of wannabe Thailand leavers trying Latin America in their minds.  One actually went and lasted a few weeks. 

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

So far by way of keeping score there are a lot of wannabe Thailand leavers trying Latin America in their minds.  One actually went and lasted a few weeks. 

This isn't about keeping "score" though.

[marcusarelus]

10 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

This isn't about keeping "score" though.

Someone has to insert a bit of reality or it becomes a total fantasy.  I understand most of the guys discussing Thailand live in other countries like Odysseus123 but some of us really do know about what we speak. 

[Jingthing]

24 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

I think the most important aspect of moving is, if any countries in Latin America are viable alternatives to Thailand and at this juncture in time the answer is a big no.  We all could have saved the captain guy a lot of time if more genuine information had been produced. 

No. That is ridiculous. He is one person. He has a significant pension. He can afford to retire decently in the U.S. so in his case that was obviously a good personal decision for him.

Viable alternatives to Thailand means WHAT?!?

There is no country exactly like Thailand. 

If you've got to have Thailand, then it's going to be Thailand if you can manage it.

The reality I'm talking about is the dump of ONEROUS visa rule changes are indeed pushing a lot of people out of Thailand, either literally or in more indirect ways (such as just not being WILLING to put up with that anymore). 

So those people can either go home or go somewhere else.

Somewhere elses that are in Asean have been discussed to death on this forum.

Nothing wrong with that but there is more in the world than Asean.

This topic is about Latin American options.

There are about a million Americans living in Mexico. Don't try to tell me that Latin America isn't viable for a lot of people. 

It's not for everyone of course, and also of course, there is a lot of diversity in the specific Latin American nations and locations within them.

Such as in Colombia I am most interested in the small coffee region cities. That experience would be very different than Bogota or Cartagena. 

My personal focus is about a lower income retired person with limited countries that are even visa possible. A number of those countries are in Latin America. To me and others Latin America is worth at least CONSIDERING. 

Other people have different situations. For some of them Latin America may work too. 

 

[marcusarelus]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

No. That is ridiculous. He is one person. He has a significant pension. He can afford to retire decently in the U.S. so in his case that was obviously a good personal decision for him.

Viable alternatives to Thailand means WHAT?!?

There is no country exactly like Thailand. 

If you've got to have Thailand, then it's going to be Thailand if you can manage it.

The reality I'm talking about is the dump of ONEROUS visa rule changes are indeed pushing a lot of people out of Thailand, either literally or in more indirect ways (such as just not being WILLING to put up with that anymore). 

So those people can either go home or go somewhere else.

Somewhere elses that are in Asean have been discussed to death on this forum.

Nothing wrong with that but there is more in the world than Asean.

This topic is about Latin American options.

There are about a million Americans living in Mexico. Don't tell me people some people in the world aren't moving to Latin America and that it doesn't work for anyone.

My personal focus is about a lower income retired person with limited countries that are visa possible for me. Some of those countries are in Latin America. To me and others they are worth at least CONSIDERING. 

Other people have different situations. For some of them Latin America may work too. 

 

It has become clear to me by reading this thread that Latin America is mostly for Americans so it becomes a comparison of Latin America and America.  And since most are retired it becomes a comparison between health care affordability between America and Latin America. 

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, marcusarelus said:

It has become clear to me by reading this thread that Latin America is mostly for Americans so it becomes a comparison of Latin America and America.  And since most are retired it becomes a comparison between health care affordability between America and Latin America. 

Is that a problem for you? 

Sure there is more American and Canadian interest in this, but I don't agree that health care is the only issue. Health care should be an issue for ALL expats from anywhere thinking about moving anywhere. 

 

[marcusarelus]

3 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Is that a problem for you? 

Sure there is more American and Canadian interest in this, but I don't agree that health care is the only issue. Health care should be an issue for ALL expats from anywhere thinking about moving anywhere. 

 

Don't Canadians have to live in Canada for 6 months a year?

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

Don't Canadians have to live in Canada for 6 months a year?

It sounds like you're talking about preserving residency for benefits. Obviously Canada can't force it's citizens to do that.

[seasia]

Just now, marcusarelus said:

So far by way of keeping score there are a lot of wannabe Thailand leavers trying Latin America in their minds.  One actually went and lasted a few weeks. 

Sorry but I think you are being unfair somewhat.

 

You are I suppose referring to Captain Jack, he gave both Thailand and Mexico  a try.

I respect that. Always polite with his posts, he changed his mind.

Things did not work out for him.

 

Many things do not work out in life.

 

I do actually have friends that after spending a long time in Thailand decided it was not for them.

They are not posting here though, hardly surprising considering the abuse some receive if they post that either they have returned "home " or sought an alternative.

 

After 20 years experience here, 10 living here, 10 of visiting I have already booked my longest ever break from Thailand.

 

Yeah you have of course been here longer, if you are genuinely happy here, I am glad.

 

What exactly is the problem with considering other options?

 

Once again, as a Brit, Latin America is probably not a natural fit for me.

 

Perhaps spend some time there though, yes, that is a strong possibility.

 

The thread has educated me.

Aimed at potential expats but also of equal use to those who might want to spend time out of Asia/Europe/US.

 

Some might look in to alternatives and then decide to stay in Thailand.

Nothing wrong with a Plan B.

 

Plenty of useful info.

[seasia]

Hi

 

Back on topic with a couple of questions.

 

Do either of Colombia or Mexico have a  "state "  ambulance service ?

 

To try to explain more, if you were unfortunate enough to have an accident or medical emergency out there, who is coming for you?

 

In Thailand it appears it is either the voluntary rescue service or the big private hospitals.

In the UK it is state service,

 

How is the internet in both the mentioned countries ?

More interested in reliability/stability than costs but answers on either welcome.

 

Thanks.

[marcusarelus]

1 hour ago, seasia said:

Sorry but I think you are being unfair somewhat.

 

You are I suppose referring to Captain Jack, he gave both Thailand and Mexico  a try.

I respect that. Always polite with his posts, he changed his mind.

Things did not work out for him.

 

Many things do not work out in life.

 

I do actually have friends that after spending a long time in Thailand decided it was not for them.

They are not posting here though, hardly surprising considering the abuse some receive if they post that either they have returned "home " or sought an alternative.

 

After 20 years experience here, 10 living here, 10 of visiting I have already booked my longest ever break from Thailand.

 

Yeah you have of course been here longer, if you are genuinely happy here, I am glad.

 

What exactly is the problem with considering other options?

 

Once again, as a Brit, Latin America is probably not a natural fit for me.

 

Perhaps spend some time there though, yes, that is a strong possibility.

 

The thread has educated me.

Aimed at potential expats but also of equal use to those who might want to spend time out of Asia/Europe/US.

 

Some might look in to alternatives and then decide to stay in Thailand.

Nothing wrong with a Plan B.

 

Plenty of useful info.

I'd like to read some actual experience.  Jack made a simple mistake in Thailand that could have been avoided if he had read Thai Visa for a while before he came. 

 

I'd like to read some actual experiences in Latin America. 

 

I have friends there who don't paint a very rosy picture.  I lived for many years in South Texas with hundreds of Mexican friends and employees.  None of them wanted to go back.  In fact they were afraid to go back and went to great lengths to stay in America.  I've been there.  Do you see where I'm coming from?

[marcusarelus]

59 minutes ago, seasia said:

Hi

 

Back on topic with a couple of questions.

 

Do either of Colombia or Mexico have a  "state "  ambulance service ?

 

To try to explain more, if you were unfortunate enough to have an accident or medical emergency out there, who is coming for you?

 

In Thailand it appears it is either the voluntary rescue service or the big private hospitals.

In the UK it is state service,

 

How is the internet in both the mentioned countries ?

More interested in reliability/stability than costs but answers on either welcome.

 

Thanks.

The answers you will get are from people googling stuff.  Why not do that yourself? 

[Luckysilk]

59 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

The answers you will get are from people googling stuff.  Why not do that yourself? 

You're right, Google is our friend.

 

I did a quick search on moving to LATAM and suitable Kevlar jackets for safety and came up with all kinds of options.