Expats in Thailand considering moving to Latin America prompted by Thai visa changes

[brokenbone]

43 minutes ago, onera1961 said:

It just boggles my mind why Europeans want to come all the way to Thailand. They have better options in Spain, Portugal and Malta. I have lived in Albuferia and Benidorm and liked it. But I can't stay more than 3-months. I have to spend my next trip for three months in Malta. 

i think like everyone else, i didnt anticipate the extent

of visa hassle & cost when the body dont comply,

plus, internet was still in its infancy when i came,

so there wasnt any real source either of caribbean

[Nyezhov]

Well Americans can go to Puerto Rico for their 3rd world spanish fix, its not really bad (other than the fact its 3rd world spanish), just super expensive...

 

Or the US Virgin Islands. U can get a place for about $800 a month. There ya go.

[DrDave]

I'm surprised that there's been no mention of Belize and Honduras (Bay Islands/Roatan, not the mainland). Both have relatively painless visa requirements for retirees, as well as simple pathways to permanent residency. Both very popular with expats, and Belize in particular is an English speaking country.

[Jingthing]

I'm surprised that there's been no mention of Belize and Honduras (Bay Islands/Roatan, not the mainland). Both have relatively painless visa requirements for retirees, as well as simple pathways to permanent residency. Both very popular with expats, and Belize in particular is an English speaking country.

I did mention Belize before. Personally I don't qualify and I'm not much interested as I have an impression of the place as a backwater.

Honduras might not be on many people's radar these days perhaps related to current events such as migrant caravans and what not. Of course I realize there are some nice places there.

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[swissie]

1 hour ago, brokenbone said:

i just did. these are relevant to you.

 

Martinique, Guadeloupe and French Guiana :

These are French overseas departments & part of the EU. No residency requirements for EU and EEA passport holders.

St. Barthelemy : no residency requirements for EU & EEA passport holders.

 

you got your PR the second the plane lands, free,

no reason to ever go to IO

 

 

 

My home-country is not part of the EU.

[Jingthing]

Was hoping someone would post a short list of "Long Term Residency" requirements concerning the different SA Countries mentioned here. Without such a basic list, all we are doing here is practising the fine art "guessing".

 

Well if someone wants to take on such a large project considering this includes many nations they are welcome. I for one am not volunteering to produce such a document especially considering the rules and issues with the rules are a moving target. But a general difference from Thailand is that a number of these countries have a path sometimes from the start to permanent residency and even citizenship based on retirement status. An impossible dream in Thailand.

I do know a fair bit about some of these countries retirement visa systems.

Instead of demanding a comprehensive list perhaps people want to start to talk about specific Latin American nations and then we can start to talk about their specific known residency rules. I personally am not volunteering to research every country in response to questions as I've already rejected many of the nation's and this isn't a paid job but others that are interested may choose to pipe in and share either their research findings or better yet recent personal experience.

 

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[swissie]

1 hour ago, swissie said:

Was hoping someone would post a short list of "Long Term Residency" requirements concerning the different SA Countries mentioned here.
Without such a basic list, all we are doing here is practising the fine art "guessing".

I had such a list before I decided to move to Thailand. That was 10 years ago. Have nothing "up to date".

[Jingthing]

I had such a list before I decided to move to Thailand. That was 10 years ago. Have nothing "up to date".

Yes it would be almost useless now!

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[brokenbone]

1 hour ago, Nyezhov said:

Well Americans can go to Puerto Rico for their 3rd world spanish fix, its not really bad (other than the fact its 3rd world spanish), just super expensive...

 

Or the US Virgin Islands. U can get a place for about $800 a month. There ya go.

still, PR & citizenship & national health care beats the snot out of papaya pok pok & fried larvae any day of the week

[Jingthing]

Americans moving to American territories is not really on topic here. For non Americans the USA and its territories do not offer a retirement visa.

 

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[brokenbone]

8 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Americans moving to American territories is not really on topic here. For non Americans the USA and its territories do not offer a retirement visa.

 

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yes, i always refer to whichever nationality that get PR/citizenship.

i have become convinced its the no1 priority,

i wont expose myself to visa runs, permission to stay,

and shit like that if theres any way around it, ever again.

let the backpackers go to asia,

while we have a cigar and a glass of bordeaux

[Jingthing]

14 minutes ago, brokenbone said:

yes, i always refer to whichever nationality that get PR/citizenship.

i have become convinced its the no1 priority,

i wont expose myself to visa runs, permission to stay,

and shit like that if theres any way around it, ever again.

let the backpackers go to asia

From my POV permanent residence is a very high priority indeed. Of course as another member mentioned that can be still be taken away, but of course citizenship would be much more secure. Ironically my top choice Latin American nation Colombia is the only nation that I'm aware of that has previously backed away from what they called "lifetime" visas and degraded them to 5 year visas. That happened to people that actually had lifetime visas in their passports! Not cool. Anyway, that was in the past, and their current system is interesting. For retirement you apply initially for a three year visa, then if you want to continue to stay you apply for another three year stay, but at five years you are then eligible for permanent residence. The financial pension requirements are very low and based on a multiple of national minimum wage, currently well under 1000 USD monthly. Citizenship is also an option. I recently heard of a credible report of a Colombia initial three year retirement visa being done in about week with the help of a lawyer and no need to travel to Bogota, and the financial proof was based on a social security benefits letter officialized by the U.S. embassy in Bogota. (For those aware of the behavior of the U.S. embassy in Bangkok, there is some rich irony there).That's pretty good but not the best as far as residency. Peru offers it from initial application, though the process can take months (probably best to base in Lima during that period), and Mexico has an initial option to go for permanent residence from the start (or you can do annual applications … oh what fun). Peru's pension requirements are also very low. Mexico's financial requirements based on pension are comparable to Thailand for their income method but if you show money in your home country, that's another option. Approximately 25K USD for the annual, and 95K USD for the permanent. That money does not need to be in Mexico. I was wondering if that money could be in a retirement account such as an IRA and based on what I recently read at a Mexican consulate website, I think probably yes, but that information isn't certain and would need to be confirmed. 

[Jingthing]

I want to add that for those with health care cover being the top priority Ecuador may be worth a look. They have a decent in some cities nationalize health care program open to foreigners with retirement status. There is a big issue with this though. Currently there is confusion over whether the monthly fee is supposed to be a very reasonable approximately 70 U.S. dollars monthly, or rather based on a percentage of the claimed income at time of residency application. That fee could potentially be very high if you have a high pension income. I wish I could tell people what the current situation is on that issue, but I just don't know. I think at this time some are paying the 70 dollars and some in some cities (particularly expat popular Cuenca) are paying the higher fees. 

 

Ecuador is another case where the pension requirement is very low. However, they are rather notorious for being overly bureaucratic in the application process, demanding additional documents maybe costing you thousands of dollars of travel to get, and then showing up and saying never mind we didn't really need it after all. A fairly high percentage of people just don't make it through that process. It's one of the reasons I have personally downgraded Ecuador. Peru isn't simple or easy either but their reputation isn't as bad as Ecuador. Ecuador now has a two step process. You do the initial thing and then later go for the permanent one but fairly soon after compared to Colombia. That's a downgrade from their old system where it was only one application. 

 

Something else about Mexico that isn't good. You might want to go in there ready to apply for the permanent thing and then the officer might not like the look of your face or whatever, and only give you the chance to initially apply for one year at a time. Personally if that happened to me, I would look elsewhere.

 

Got a headache yet?

 

OK, I'll say it --

 

[rumak]

8 hours ago, Nyezhov said:

Columbian and Brazilain women are cheap and hot though(as long as you can weed out the ones with asses the size of two pigs under a blanket). However, there are far better places in this world than anywhere in South/latin America

Yep,  like  uhhh   Thailand !

[Cryingdick]

It is probably more productive looking at the numerous websites already offering extensive amounts of information about these places from expats on the ground. 

 

I looked into some of these places and concluded that in places like Ecuador orPeru the quality of life would be simply too low. Which is fine but the cost would also be much higher. Why anybody on a limited budget would squander any of what they have left over a senseless and expensive move to an unknown country to find they will more than likely find it less favorable than Thailand is beyond me. We all know the first year anywhere is expensive. 

 

All of my friends who travel down there and have lived in these places say the corruption is rampant. I want to stay out of politics as much as possible but there is a reason people are not wanting to stay in places like Honduras, Salvador, Nicaragua etc. 

 

Thailand still remains the best place for those on a beer budget to put it politely. 

The food can be pretty plain and unpleasant as well. If you are on a budget I hope you enjoy eating plantains for breakfast... again.

 

I looked  into Playa Del Carmen. It was pleasant enough when I was there but is packed full of tourists. That's fine I wouldn't want to be in the deepest darkest parts of Mexico for security reasons. That gets back to cost you need to live in a secure building and hopefully you can actually leave the house after dark. I can't see anywhere you have to be careful at night being fun. Time to party... oh oops the sun went down let's lock the doors.

 

I estimated the cost of who I like to live to be around the same as my expenses were in Bangkok. On the middle end of the budget I think Mexico isn't too bad. I would need $4,000 a month to live in Playa in the style I am used to. My apartment in Playa wouldn't be as nice but the savings on other things would make up for it mainly wine.

 

I thought about it and I could live in Greece for that amount no problem which the Greek isles are much nicer IMO. I ended up choosing America because of the vast opportunities that provides me and with the costs everywhere else I realized I might as well live where I have equal rights. I don't want to spend my days in Latin America pretending to be Canadian.

 

These threads are always popular and make me think people are not quite as content in Thailand as they claim to be in other topics. However if you are looking for that unspoiled paradise with pretty girls and cocktails in coconuts that is/was Thailand.

 

 

The numbers on the lower end of the budget scale only really work in SE. Asia and it isn't really even close. I think there is a lot of "no matter where you go there you are" in these type of threads. If you do not plan to change your lifestyle and do the same thing over there I am not sure it will be better or even equal to Thailand.

 

 

 

 

[swissie]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

From my POV permanent residence is a very high priority indeed. Of course as another member mentioned that can be still be taken away, but of course citizenship would be much more secure. Ironically my top choice Latin American nation Colombia is the only nation that I'm aware of that has previously backed away from what they called "lifetime" visas and degraded them to 5 year visas. That happened to people that actually had lifetime visas in their passports! Not cool. Anyway, that was in the past, and their current system is interesting. For retirement you apply initially for a three year visa, then if you want to continue to stay you apply for another three year stay, but at five years you are then eligible for permanent residence. The financial pension requirements are very low and based on a multiple of national minimum wage, currently well under 1000 USD monthly. Citizenship is also an option. I recently heard of a credible report of a Colombia initial three year retirement visa being done in about week with the help of a lawyer and no need to travel to Bogota, and the financial proof was based on a social security benefits letter officialized by the U.S. embassy in Bogota. (For those aware of the behavior of the U.S. embassy in Bangkok, there is some rich irony there).That's pretty good but not the best as far as residency. Peru offers it from initial application, though the process can take months (probably best to base in Lima during that period), and Mexico has an initial option to go for permanent residence from the start (or you can do annual applications … oh what fun). Peru's pension requirements are also very low. Mexico's financial requirements based on pension are comparable to Thailand for their income method but if you show money in your home country, that's another option. Approximately 25K USD for the annual, and 95K USD for the permanent. That money does not need to be in Mexico. I was wondering if that money could be in a retirement account such as an IRA and based on what I recently read at a Mexican consulate website, I think probably yes, but that information isn't certain and would need to be confirmed. 

Thanks for going into some basic details concerning individual countries. One thing seems not to have changed since I have looked into it some 10 years ago: Once you have PR, it's done! Unil then, it needs the assistance of a lawyer, handling "the fine print" for you. And (in some countries), the initial "capital-stock" needed is relatively high.
- Let's face it: No "Immigration Countries" are left. A hundred years ago, one just could walk into the US, Canada and Australia. Those days are gone.

To establish oneself in a New Country may also cost the equivalent of 800K Baht. Maybe best to deposit the 800K year-round in a Thai Bank and do the 90 day nonsense by mail or online. That way the Thai Visa Djungle becomes managable. After all, outside of the visa circus, Thailand is quite nice overall.
Until the day comes, when only Thai-Elite-Visas will be acceptable. But that may well be 10 years into the future.
In other words: It gives a Farang the possibility to die during this period of time or marry a Hi-SO Thai national.????

[Jingthing]

Actually my current information is that a lawyer is not needed for Mexico, Peru, or Colombia. I've heard Colombia has made their online application more usable. I think the case I reported used a lawyer to make it easier, faster, and also to avoid travel to Bogota which he needed to do at least to go to the U.S. embassy officialize the social security benefits statement. He felt the lawyer was worth the money for all those benefits but sorry I don't know the fee he paid. Keep in mind visas are not the only thing. Latin American countries seem to have a national ID document called a cedula that is a necessary next step to do anything there (bank accounts, utilities, etc.) and that may sometimes involve dealing with immigration as well. I think a generality is that Latin American nations are not much into indefinite serial annual applications. They load the pain on early and then if you pass it, you're largely good to stay. 

[tutsiwarrior]

I've lived in both Bolivia and Chile and would never consider either as a retirement destination although I'm fluent in Spanish and eligible for bolivian citizenship as my mom was bolivian...lookin' towards Vietnam for retirement purposes these days...

 

Mexico City however would suit me fine but I think that I'd need more than my retirement income to live there comfortably...would also be nice to have Garcia Marquez and Roberto Bolano (both south american expatriates living in the D.F.) as drinking buddies but both have sadly passed on now...

 

 

[Jingthing]

3 hours ago, tutsiwarrior said:

I've lived in both Bolivia and Chile and would never consider either as a retirement destination although I'm fluent in Spanish and eligible for bolivian citizenship as my mom was bolivian...lookin' towards Vietnam for retirement purposes these days...

 

Mexico City however would suit me fine but I think that I'd need more than my retirement income to live there comfortably...would also be nice to have Garcia Marquez and Roberto Bolano (both south american expatriates living in the D.F.) as drinking buddies but both have sadly passed on now...

 

 

Personally I've already rejected Chile for retirement and haven't thought much about Bolivia, but I have noticed there is an increase in interest in Bolivia. Apparently La Paz has made progress even having foodie cred. Amusingly named Cochabamba is enjoying some expat interest for those seeking a more authentic and rustic destination. 

 

Regrets to linking to the "notorious" IL website (as it has a deserved reputation for accentuating the positive and not even mentioning the negative) --

https://internationalliving.com/affordable-living-and-quality-healthcare-in-cochabamba-bolivia/

 

Retirement visa rules and residency potential for Bolivia? Does someone want to volunteer to research it and post it?

 

[ChristianBlessing]

14 hours ago, Gecko123 said:

Would be interested in hearing from anyone venturing an opinion about the ease of making friends with locals (Thailand vs Latin America).

In the late 1990s I lived and worked for 3 years in Paraguay (decidedly not a retirement destination for most) and still have a number of Paraguayan friends with whom I regularly stay in touch. I found it quite easy to befriend locals in spite of my (then) limited Spanish and Guarani language. I've since traveled extensively in the "southern cone" and found the citizens of all countries to be friendly, outgoing and generous. Given the familiar cultural touchstones we all bring some essential apriori experiences and backgrounds.

 

One country rarely mentioned as a potential retirement destination is Uruguay. The country ranks first in all of Latin America for democratic freedom, peace, low levels of corruption, and is an advanced, innovative country. Not the lowest financial bar but far easier to obtain residency than most.

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, ChristianBlessing said:

In the late 1990s I lived and worked for 3 years in Paraguay (decidedly not a retirement destination for most) and still have a number of Paraguayan friends with whom I regularly stay in touch. I found it quite easy to befriend locals in spite of my (then) limited Spanish and Guarani language. I've since traveled extensively in the "southern cone" and found the citizens of all countries to be friendly, outgoing and generous. Given the familiar cultural touchstones we all bring some essential apriori experiences and backgrounds.

 

One country rarely mentioned as a potential retirement destination is Uruguay. The country ranks first in all of Latin America for democratic freedom, peace, low levels of corruption, and is an advanced, innovative country. Not the lowest financial bar but far easier to obtain residency than most.

I totally agree Uruguay has a lot of appeal. I did look at it and decided for me qualifying was iffy and that I also would want to live in the Montevideo area which would be prohibitively expensive even if I could get approved. Many want to live in the beach areas, also on the more expensive or very expensive sides. But I do think it's on the possible and desirable list for a large chunk of people that aren't fabulously wealthy. 

[Mike Teavee]

21 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Personally I've already rejected Chile for retirement and haven't thought much about Bolivia, but I have noticed there is an increase in interest in Bolivia. Apparently La Paz has made progress even having foodie cred. Amusingly named Cochabamba is enjoying some expat interest for those seeking a more authentic and rustic destination. 

 

Regrets to linking to the "notorious" IL website (as it has a deserved reputation for accentuating the positive and not even mentioning the negative) --

https://internationalliving.com/affordable-living-and-quality-healthcare-in-cochabamba-bolivia/

 

Retirement visa rules and residency potential for Bolivia? Does someone want to volunteer to research it and post it?

 

Haven't seen this site http://www.southamericaliving.com/ mentioned in this thread so might be of interest... a quick glance at the Bolivia section suggests US guys can get a 5 year visa for Bolivia for $135...  http://www.southamericaliving.com/living-in-bolivia-visas-fees/ 

 

U.S. citizens can purchase a Tourist Visa before entering the country, or at any border crossing. Bolivia also requires a Yellow Fever Certificate but is not enforced across the board. A vaccine may be administered at the border if you have not already had the shot – or you may be allowed to enter without it.

Officially, the requirements for the visa for U.S. citizens also includes proof of income (bank statement, credit card, etc.), passport photos, return ticket out of the country (if arriving by air) and a hotel reservation or ‘letter of invitation’ from a Bolivian national. When entering the country by land, you most likely will only need to show your passport, Yellow Fever Certificate and pay the fee, but there is no guarantee.

Most importantly – to make the process go smoothly – have your $135 USD reciprocity fee ready to hand-over in U.S. dollars. The visa is valid for five years, multiple entries. Do not lose your passport (that has the visa stamp) or you will have to pay for another visa ($80 USD for replacement) and redo the process all over again.

Departure tax when leaving Bolivia

They don’t let you off the hook when you leave the country either. Bolivia charges a departure tax of $25 USD for international departures. If you are flying within the country, the fee is minimal – only 15 Bolivianos ($2 USD). To save any hassle, have the correct amount ready to pass over to the Immigration money collector, in U.S. dollars.

 

 

[nauseus]

10 hours ago, Jingthing said:

The trick is identifying the safer cities in the target countries. Fear mongering about Latin America in general is not helpful here. Nobody here is considering Caracas for obvious reasons.

 

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Well good luck - let us know where you end up.

[Nyezhov]

9 hours ago, DrDave said:

I'm surprised that there's been no mention of Belize and Honduras (Bay Islands/Roatan, not the mainland). Both have relatively painless visa requirements for retirees, as well as simple pathways to permanent residency. Both very popular with expats, and Belize in particular is an English speaking country.

Both countries are crime ridden pits and Belize is expensive, unless you want to live out in the jungle

[1FinickyOne]

17 hours ago, sanemax said:

Did you have sex this morning and last night again ?

people who live in the past have not yet arrived at last night... just sayin. 

[1FinickyOne]

As to Central/South America... they don't have enough candles to hold a candle to living in Thailand... my opinion, of course... and by your being here, maybe you agree. 

[BritManToo]

Just now, kenk24 said:

As to Central/South America... they don't have enough candles to hold a candle to living in Thailand... my opinion, of course... and by your being here, maybe you agree. 

It's another JT fantasy thread, pick a place so far away that you'll never dare go.

Vietnam/Philippines/Cambodia are too close, too easy and too realistic an option to consider.

[1FinickyOne]

1 minute ago, BritManToo said:

It's another JT fantasy thread, pick a place so far away that you'll never dare go.

Vietnam/Philippines/Cambodia are too close, too easy and too realistic an option to consider.

ok... when I fantasize it goes to other areas, not geographic. 

[brokenbone]

20 minutes ago, kenk24 said:

As to Central/South America... they don't have enough candles to hold a candle to living in Thailand... my opinion, of course... and by your being here, maybe you agree. 

no, citizenship & national health care holds more candle

than all the oil fried bugs in thailand put together.

i'm only here cause my body dont allow that far travel as of yet, and i know JT is waiting on recover most of the money he spent on his condo before he can finally leave

[yobosayo]

Mexico is good and Belize. Watch youtube Jerry Brown Travels. Tangerine Travels. & JC Travel Stories