Income Method - are immigration moving the goal posts again

[bkk6060]

9 minutes ago, Nyezhov said:

Agreed. Absent major changes, I wont seek a new extension in January. For the six months I want to be here, its easier to use SETVS/METVs

Not a bad idea for some.

I think the METV can be stretched to 9 months?

That and even a few Visa exempts and you are at one year.

[billd766]

4 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

irrelevant for most people.

"A P60 is a form that shows how much taxable salary the employee was paid in the tax year and how much tax was deducted from their wages. An employer must give aP60 to each of their employees at the end of the tax year"
 

 

4 hours ago, trd said:

4 hours ago, mikebell said:

Ditto but you can get a P60 from UK Tax dept showing your total earnings  & taxation level.  This SHOULD be enough & straightforward for even the average Immigration officer to understand.  But this will be deemed insufficient.
Someone above mentioned having no alternative.  Wrong - I'm checking out Vietnam to see if they value my pensions more than Thailand.

Do you know what a P60 is? You get it if you are drawing a salary for employment in the UK. Why would I have a P60 if I'm not resident in the UK or working in the UK. What are you talking about? You don't get a P60 for pension. You are also making a big assumption that an IO would accept a P60. Where does that idea come from? Why do people keep assuming that IO's are going to accept bits of paper that they think are okay and should be accepted?

I have been getting a P60 since I was 15 1/2 and started work.

 

You get a P60 once your annual income derived from ALL UK sources goes past the tax allowance threshold. I work offshore for a UK company that I now receive a pension from and ,yes it is taxable by the UK. Just because you had a job in the UK means you get a P60 once you go past the tax threshold. If you work offshore for a UK based company you still pay income tax and get a P60.

 

If you are going to talk about P60s make sure that you know all about them.

 

Not only employers give a P60 but pension providers as well.

 

I get 3 pensions.

 

The State pension is tax free (under the allowance).

 

My other 2 pensions put me over the tax threshold and I get a P60 from each of them.

[lamyai3]

5 hours ago, trd said:

Exactly right. They want a simple clear and consistent piece of documentation that works for every case. They just haven't got time for anything else. IO's are paper processors, not investigators!

Perhaps a good idea might be some sort of verification of income letter or affidavit, issued by the persons home country embassy. Oh, hang on... 

[Nyezhov]

19 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

Not a bad idea for some.

I think the METV can be stretched to 9 months?

That and even a few Visa exempts and you are at one year.

Simple.

[thailand49]

8 hours ago, freedomnow said:

Why doesn't someone send a text message to BJ in Thai about getting all offices on the same page regarding this ? As much as he is hardline to foreigners, he is also hardline to the slobs in Imm. offices.

I'm not a retiree, just an observation that there appears to be a line open to him and from what I read that particular office is a pure headache on the make.

I did way back but it got censor and removed!  It really is pretty simple with all the tech today, get on a video conference with everyone immigration office in Thailand go over all the rules and their interpretation do a backup training video for everyone but I guess this would just be too hard to do? The country just seems to be running exactly the way they intended it should?

If it wasn't confusing all the time, people wouldn't feel important or a sense of power over others.  Getting it right would mean not a lot of jobs for their families and the benefits that come with it?  As they say, This is Thailand.

Edited March 14, 2019 by thailand49

[lamyai3]

2 hours ago, JTXR said:

It will also entail showing Thai immigration personal financial documents that I'm not sure their internal privacy safeguards are adequate for.

Immigration have been known to recycle previously submitted paperwork for forms, so it's not hard to envisage some random stranger with a copy of your financial documents a year or two later. 

[gentlemanjackdarby]

7 hours ago, mokwit said:

Yes this would simplify matters. I can't imagine any IO would have problems interpreting Yemeni or any of the couple of hundred countries different tax statements - esp those not in English. Certainly a lot easier than interpreting statements from a handful of Thai banks.

Not picking on you, but I've read the comment about IOs dealing with bank statements, income tax returns, etc. in multiple foreign languages and today I feel like replying since no one else has seen fit to do so:

 

Immigration could simply require that documents in another language be translated into the Thai language and certified by a competent translator

 

For example, when applying for a Philippines SRRV, the PRA (Philippines Retirement Authority) requires that any documents not in English be translated into English and, in the case of the PI, certified by their embassy (for those applying outside the PI) - It isn't a difficult or novel idea

 

It's a win-win for everyone - folks needing something from Immigration have much less hassle and the powers-that-be could appoint certain translators and translation companies as 'preferred' or 'certified' translators. The translators would then pay a 'preference' or 'certification' fee' to maintain their status and everybody's happy 

[Thailand]

5 hours ago, trd said:

I got a letter last year informing me what I get for the state pension increase for the year but no p60 as far as I can remember. Anyway this might be completely irrelevant because I see no evidence that immigration will accept a P60. Do you?

 

How do you get increases in UK state pension if you are in Thailand?

[gentlemanjackdarby]

8 hours ago, trd said:

 

 

What tax return? I'm on a UK pension which is income but I haven't made a tax return for more than 20 years.

 

I'm an American and have no experience whatsoever with UK taxes, but in the U.S., one can file a tax return even if one has neither taxable income nor a tax liability.

 

In fact, I advise folks to file a return even if they are not required to do so because unless a return is filed, the statute of limitations does not begin to run, i.e., years for which a return isn't filed are never 'closed' and therefore open to audit by the IRS or state department of taxation after the normal three years.

 

In the U.S., it costs nothing to file a return

 

If Thai Immigration began accepting income tax returns as proof of foreign income, would it be that much of a burden for a U.K. citizen, who is otherwise not required to file a return, to do so?

[trd]

How do you get increases in UK state pension if you are in Thailand?

I'm in the UK but spend a lot of time in Thailand.

[scubascuba3]

Wow.
That is one of the reasons I am here and enjoy Thailand. Sorry to hear you quit.

Initially sad but now its great, I'm much healthier and fitter cycling several times a week in a group, golf just isn't worth the money here, some people disagree

[Spidey]

40 minutes ago, Thailand said:

How do you get increases in UK state pension if you are in Thailand?

Don't tell the DWP that you are living in Thailand.

[scubascuba3]

Immigration have been known to recycle previously submitted paperwork for forms, so it's not hard to envisage some random stranger with a copy of your financial documents a year or two later. 

That's true, when i picked up a TM7 form a couple weeks ago on the back was a copy of someones passport main photo page. Other TM7s had other photocopies

[alex8912]

9 hours ago, Time Traveller said:

The thing is, Income is a very subjective term as is really depends up each countries laws over what is considered income. For example, selling investments in many countries is considered income as the sale of an asset is considered a Taxable event. 

The problem is Thailand immigration are morons. The only way effective way to determine someone's income is a copy of their individual tax filing because lying on that has serious legal ramifications. Immigration would save so many headaches and wasted time if they just required every applicant for extension of stay to show their tax returns.

 

I agree with the moron part but I have a feeling you do not have a tax return that is 25 pages or more! Many people  at least in the states have almost a books worth of pages. But some have one or two pages. 

[Aus2804]

If you put 800,000 baht in a Thai bank account, can you draw on it during the year or does it just have to stay there untouched? 

[alex8912]

1 hour ago, bkk6060 said:

Not a bad idea for some.

I think the METV can be stretched to 9 months?

That and even a few Visa exempts and you are at one year.

I think it would be a big red flag to immigration if that was done even 2/3 years in a row. I’m on my 5 th METV now but do one per year for 6/7 month period. There is one expert on here that says it was not designed even for that purpose but I’ve called him out on it several times ( not UJ). I have yet to see a report where it’s been used once a year for 6/7 months and rejected at entry. For snow birds etc I think an METV fits like a glove, but I think a minimum of 4/5 months out of Thailand makes the IO not care. The one thing I started doing last year is to never go to a female one and I highly recommend this practice. I do think if you are a person who wants to come to Thailand once for 9 months using an METV the first time is absolutely no problem. 

[bkk6060]

9 hours ago, Time Traveller said:

The thing is, Income is a very subjective term as is really depends up each countries laws over what is considered income. For example, selling investments in many countries is considered income as the sale of an asset is considered a Taxable event. 

The problem is Thailand immigration are morons. The only way effective way to determine someone's income is a copy of their individual tax filing because lying on that has serious legal ramifications. Immigration would save so many headaches and wasted time if they just required every applicant for extension of stay to show their tax returns.

 

Truly, one of the most ridiculous suggestions/posts I have ever read.

So, every extensioner here from all the various countries all over the world are going to show up to Thai immigration with their tax returns??

Many people hire an accountant or even a lawyer to do their taxes yet you believe TI will understand them??

So, send a message to Big Joke I am sure he will consider it.

Wow.....

Edited March 14, 2019 by bkk6060

[malibukid]

i think all this will change after the elections.  expect major reforms at TI.  no one is on the same page. went to Bangkok Bank today at KSK clueless and unpleasant. 

[malibukid]

6 hours ago, mercman24 said:

funny how some retirees can live in the UK on a pension of 27,000 baht permonth, but this third world country requires them to have 65,000 baht income per month.out of touch with reality or what.

 

yes but in the UK no water buffalo

[steve73]

2 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

3 hours ago, lamyai3 said:

Immigration have been known to recycle previously submitted paperwork for forms, so it's not hard to envisage some random stranger with a copy of your financial documents a year or two later. 

That's true, when i picked up a TM7 form a couple weeks ago on the back was a copy of someones passport main photo page. Other TM7s had other photocopies

I always use both side when I make photocopies... even something not required just to avoid a blank sheet... but it pisses the I/O off..

 

[marcusarelus]

24 minutes ago, malibukid said:

i think all this will change after the elections.  expect major reforms at TI.  no one is on the same page. went to Bangkok Bank today at KSK clueless and unpleasant. 

Do you find this an exception or the rule in your dealings with Thai people?

[OJAS]

 

7 hours ago, sumrit said:

Asking for the 'home Country' income source details would prevent this.

But presumably you would also need to provide some sort of trail linking the income source details to the monthly transfer figures appearing in your passbook/statement so as to provide a complete picture to Immigration. Easier said than done in practice, I think, when bank charges, fluctuating exchange rates, etc are thrown into the mix. 

[Jip99]

11 minutes ago, OJAS said:

 

But presumably you would also need to provide some sort of trail linking the income source details to the monthly transfer figures appearing in your passbook/statement so as to provide a complete picture to Immigration. Easier said than done in practice, I think, when bank charges, fluctuating exchange rates, etc are thrown into the mix. 

 

With Transferwise you can print out a complete transaction list and match them identically to the receipt on your Thai bank statement.

[lamyai3]

3 hours ago, Aus2804 said:

If you put 800,000 baht in a Thai bank account, can you draw on it during the year or does it just have to stay there untouched? 

Needs to be untouched for two months prior to seasoning (not sure if that changes to three months after the first year), plus three months afterwards. The remaining months of the year it can be partially withdrawn as long as the amount doesn't go below 400,000 baht. Immigration will check at the time of the next extension if these rules have been complied with during the preceding year, and will deny the extension if not. 

[scubascuba3]

Do you find this an exception or the rule in your dealings with Thai people?

In the real world, the feelings of them being clueless is common. Getting a smile out of Immigration is virtually impossible, barely look at you. That's the kind of people we are dealing with. Take your rose tinted glasses off

[RichardColeman]

20 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

The reason this is an issue is some people are over 50 but not drawing a pension so are transferring in cash or selling investments etc.

when transferring , can you not just put a transfer comment of 'pension' ? 

[scubascuba3]

when transferring , can you not just put a transfer comment of 'pension' ? 

By the sounds of it they may ask for a pension statement or something. If they actually issued guidance that would be the right thing to do, of course they won't do that.

Comments on the transfer don't show up on thai statement

[marcusarelus]

1 hour ago, scubascuba3 said:

9 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

Do you find this an exception or the rule in your dealings with Thai people?

In the real world, the feelings of them being clueless is common. Getting a smile out of Immigration is virtually impossible, barely look at you. That's the kind of people we are dealing with. Take your rose tinted glasses off

The title of the thread is an example of negative deception.  You could have written are lazy embassies making it harder for expats again and that would have been more accurate.  You see clueless and unsmiling my world sees smiles and clued in.  I don't wear glasses I wear a smile.  Been here 20 years and have learned that it is better to expect success and prepare for failure than the reverse. 

[scubascuba3]

The title of the thread is an example of negative deception.  You could have written are lazy embassies making it harder for expats again and that would have been more accurate.  You see clueless and unsmiling my world sees smiles and clued in.  I don't wear glasses I wear a smile.  Been here 20 years and have learned that it is better to expect success and prepare for failure than the reverse. 

Yawn, immigration offices are inconsistent, there lies a big part of the problem. You see what you want to see. You are a sample of one and have a minority view

[jacko45k]

13 hours ago, Aus2804 said:

If you put 800,000 baht in a Thai bank account, can you draw on it during the year or does it just have to stay there untouched? 

For a retirement Extension it needs to be pre-seasoned  for 2 months, and maintained at 800,000 for 3 months after the extension is granted. Then 400,000 must be maintained for 6 months (hence 400,000 can be drawn). BUT, for a subsequent extension you need it back up to 800,000 again. (The rule states for 2 months, but some offices are requiring 3).