Testosterone - Testoviron - Where to buy in CM

[WaveHunter]

2 hours ago, FredGallaher said:

I'm signing off of this ridiculous discourse. Arguing between two forum members is wasting everyone else's time. BTW injecting testosterone with a 31 gauge needle will not be easy. I doubt it you could draw up testosterone cypionate in anything less than a 23 gauge needle. As far as injecting it would be very difficult or impossible.   

You're right about one thing; these are ridiculous discourses.  Obviously you are not undergoing TRT, nor have you even researched it diligently.  I really do not like have these unpleasant arguments with you but you make assertions that seem more inflammatory than helpful.

 

What I find most curious is that you claim to have a professional background in the sciences bt you rarely if ever provide science-based references to support your claims. 

 

I'm not sure why you are even participating in this thread since you do not seem to have a genuine interest in the topic, but of course that is your right. 

 

If you did take this seriously however, you would discuss your personal views as such and not claim them to be hard fact unless you also back them up with science-based references.  I don't fault you for your personal views, only for your insinuation that they are the gospel truth.

 

Sure, the study I mentioned had to do with Trans-gendered people.  The fact is though, that Testosterone dosage guidelines for them is the same as for TRT (i.e.: around 100mg/week or under), so my citing that study is entirely appropriate. 

 

If you had done even a cursory Google search before making your assertion about sub_Q vs IM, which set this whole silly discourse off in the first place, you'd find plenty of other studies that support my disagreement with your remark.  You'd also find that most MD's who are considered authorities on TRT also agree that sub-Q is just fine for TRT delivery, and at those dosages, IM delivery offers absolutely no benefit in terms of efficacy.  It boils down to personal preference.

 

True, using finer gage insulin syringes takes longer to inject, but people that are new to TRT are scared of inserting long needles deep into muscle.  it's also harder to see what you're doing since the injection site is usually into the glutes. So, Sub-Q is the preferred method for new patients.

 

There is absolutely no problem using a 31 ga short needle.  The transfer method is to use a 27ga needle (23ga is not necessary) to draw out the Test from an ampule or vial, and then transfer it to the insulin syringe, replace the plunger, and inject.  True, the viscosity makes the duration of injection a bit longer but not more than 5 seconds.  So, it is not "very difficult or impossible", as you stated.

 

For the more experienced, IM is preferred only because the injection is quicker, and there is no need to transfer from one syringe to another.  BTW, A 23ga needle is not necessary for IM.  27ga is just fine for drawing as well as delivery, and it's much less painful with the finer gage.

 

Before you fly off the handle and into another tirade. I am NOT ADVOCATING THAT OTHERS take my words here as instructions on how to do TRT.  Rather, they should be informed about options so they can discuss these things with their own doctor.  Everybody on this forum is (or should be) responsible enough to understand this, and thus your censorship is not really necessary.

 

Anyway, I'd be a lot more receptive to your views if you'd state them as your personal opinions unless you also back them up with references. 

 

Instead of constantly faulting everything I say and claiming that I am being irresponsible in sharing my knowledge, perhaps you should give some credence to my views since I have over four years of TRT experience and knowledge gained through my doctor who is a top endocrinologist in the USA, and from much research I've done on my own since then.  And, most importantly, because my TRT has always resulted in blood tests that are spot-on, and I have never had any sort of problems associated with the therapy.

 

Seriously buddy, I do not like having arguments with you or anyone else of this forum, but I have a very short fuse when people voice personal opinion as fact without any credible science to back it up, and then fault others who disagree as being irresponsible and a danger to others.

 

In the immortal words of Rodney King, "Can't we all just get along?"  I'll stop this needless bickering if you will.  Life is just too short for all this wasted energy. ????

 

 

Edited September 22, 2019 by WaveHunter

[NaamGin]

It figures that a simple question as to where to buy testoviron turns into a 5 page thread on the pros / cons of using the drug for TRT... 

 

I buy it by the box from Dr Morgan at HCMC on Hang Dong Rd, near the airport... 

Edited September 25, 2019 by NaamGin

[Bill97]

You're right about one thing; these are ridiculous discourses.  Obviously you are not undergoing TRT, nor have you even researched it diligently.  I really do not like have these unpleasant arguments with you but you make assertions that seem more inflammatory than helpful.
 
What I find most curious is that you claim to have a professional background in the sciences bt you rarely if ever provide science-based references to support your claims. 
 
I'm not sure why you are even participating in this thread since you do not seem to have a genuine interest in the topic, but of course that is your right. 
 
If you did take this seriously however, you would discuss your personal views as such and not claim them to be hard fact unless you also back them up with science-based references.  I don't fault you for your personal views, only for your insinuation that they are the gospel truth.
 
Sure, the study I mentioned had to do with Trans-gendered people.  The fact is though, that Testosterone dosage guidelines for them is the same as for TRT (i.e.: around 100mg/week or under), so my citing that study is entirely appropriate. 
 
If you had done even a cursory Google search before making your assertion about sub_Q vs IM, which set this whole silly discourse off in the first place, you'd find plenty of other studies that support my disagreement with your remark.  You'd also find that most MD's who are considered authorities on TRT also agree that sub-Q is just fine for TRT delivery, and at those dosages, IM delivery offers absolutely no benefit in terms of efficacy.  It boils down to personal preference.
 
True, using finer gage insulin syringes takes longer to inject, but people that are new to TRT are scared of inserting long needles deep into muscle.  it's also harder to see what you're doing since the injection site is usually into the glutes. So, Sub-Q is the preferred method for new patients.
 
There is absolutely no problem using a 31 ga short needle.  The transfer method is to use a 27ga needle (23ga is not necessary) to draw out the Test from an ampule or vial, and then transfer it to the insulin syringe, replace the plunger, and inject.  True, the viscosity makes the duration of injection a bit longer but not more than 5 seconds.  So, it is not "very difficult or impossible", as you stated.
 
For the more experienced, IM is preferred only because the injection is quicker, and there is no need to transfer from one syringe to another.  BTW, A 23ga needle is not necessary for IM.  27ga is just fine for drawing as well as delivery, and it's much less painful with the finer gage.
 
Before you fly off the handle and into another tirade. I am NOT ADVOCATING THAT OTHERS take my words here as instructions on how to do TRT.  Rather, they should be informed about options so they can discuss these things with their own doctor.  Everybody on this forum is (or should be) responsible enough to understand this, and thus your censorship is not really necessary.
 
Anyway, I'd be a lot more receptive to your views if you'd state them as your personal opinions unless you also back them up with references. 
 
Instead of constantly faulting everything I say and claiming that I am being irresponsible in sharing my knowledge, perhaps you should give some credence to my views since I have over four years of TRT experience and knowledge gained through my doctor who is a top endocrinologist in the USA, and from much research I've done on my own since then.  And, most importantly, because my TRT has always resulted in blood tests that are spot-on, and I have never had any sort of problems associated with the therapy.
 
Seriously buddy, I do not like having arguments with you or anyone else of this forum, but I have a very short fuse when people voice personal opinion as fact without any credible science to back it up, and then fault others who disagree as being irresponsible and a danger to others.
 
In the immortal words of Rodney King, "Can't we all just get along?"  I'll stop this needless bickering if you will.  Life is just too short for all this wasted energy. [emoji846]
 
 

You and your buddy should get a room, one without any keyboards.


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[flare]

5 hours ago, NaamGin said:

It figures that a simple question as to where to buy testoviron turns into a 5 page thread on the pros / cons of using the drug for TRT... 

 

I buy it by the box from Dr Morgan at HCMC on Hang Dong Rd, near the airport... 

Is it sold OTC or do they require a physical exam?

[NaamGin]

3 minutes ago, flare said:

Is it sold OTC or do they require a physical exam?

Not sure as Dr Morgan has been my personal physician for years. I would suspect she would want to do a physical on you and check your testosterone levels before recommending a dosage, although it couldn't hurt to call and ask.

[WaveHunter]

Dr. Morgan was also my doctor when I lived in Chiang Mai.  A very fine doctor and really dedicated to her patients.  As for selling to non-patients...hey, she is a physician, not a pharmacy ... ya know? 

 

Become a patient, have her run blood panels, and then ask her for the Testosterone.  Her office visit prices are very inexpensive, and you really shouldn't use Test without baseline blood tests that are interpreted by a good physician who understands TRT...and she does.

Edited September 25, 2019 by WaveHunter

[WaveHunter]

When certain people repeatedly use the "confused" emoticon but never have anything intelligent or helpful to say, I can't help but think of this cartoon.

Edited September 25, 2019 by WaveHunter

[WaveHunter]

On 9/17/2019 at 5:02 PM, FredGallaher said:

WH, I don't believe you are a qualified Medical Professional ( possibly an medical experimenter) and should not be advising others. You have had frequent posts on this thread that lack a solid basis. Testosterone is a serious hormone and not to be taken lightly. See a MD who specializes in TRT or and endrocronologist. They will do baseline lab tests plus PSA, Free and Total Testosterone and Estrogen levels along with a physical exam.

Testosterone needs to be controlled and excess Free Testosterone freely converts to Estrogen which can cause problems. Estrogen is linked to fat storage and some cancers (esp prostrate cancer). 

Relying on Dr Google is not a smart approach.

...

...ID injections if done  in small doses, daily might be OK, if someone want to subject themselves. ID is common for some things such as HCG or HGH daily injections though. 

This guy needs to stop advising others and direct them to competent physicians. 

I don't know what this guy's gig is but he is certainly posting on a lot of off the wall things and seeking attention, might be some sort of bait clicking to promote a business. 

The study sighted focused on a small number of transgender subjects. 

Edited Sunday at 02:59 PM by FredGallaher

I am not a medical professional and have never claimed to be.  However, unlike this OP, I have been undergoing physician supervised TRT for over four years and have also become very well read on this subject.  I am not a passive patient; my endocrinologist has always encouraged me to be educated and informed about my treatment and take an active role in it.  That is what good doctors and good patients do!

 

Everything I share on this thread is based on uncontested science-based FACTS that I've learned mainly through my doctor or through reading from other reliable sources.  My doctor is not "Doctor Google", nor am I a "medical experimenter" as the Op snidely suggests.

 

Unlike this mean-spirited, silly OP, I do not spew unfounded personal opinion or uneducated conjecture, pretending that it is science-based fact, with no references to back his claims.

 

I have never advocated self-treatment; only self education.  My motive in posting is simply to help others who are also undergoing TRT or considering it, to be better informed on this topic so that they can interact with their doctor, or prospective doctor if they are new to TRT, in an informed and meaningful way.

 

For the OP to continue making these unfounded, malicious, and inflammatory remarks does not add anything meaningful that benefits others; and only serves to make himself feel superior to others by inferring that he is a scientific authority on TRT, which he clearly is not!

 

He pompously poses as a scientific authority on TRT yet is incredibly uneducated about it, and that is quite obvious to anyone who is educated on the topic.  Recent examples of his completely unfounded nonsense:

 

• Subcutaneous Injection (sub-Q) will result in serum levels rising too quickly and thus a danger, making Intramuscular (IM) injections preferred.  TOTAL NONSENSE!!!
• sub-q injections of testosterone with a 31 gage needle "would be difficult if not impossible" to perform.  TOTAL NONSENSE!!!
• In another thread, his preposterous description of Testosterone's biochemical and physiological mechanisms was full of half-truths, misinformation, and just plain made-up nonsense!  Even a grade school biology student would recognize the flaws of his remarks!
• His pseudoscientific description of gluconeogenesis in another thread was embarrassingly incomplete and full of half-truths, showing a lack of actual knowledge of what actually happens in a fasted state, and was TOTAL NONSENSE!!!

The Op likes to pose as a scientific authority on all sorts of subjects, but his remarks usually insult the intelligence of well educated people, and lead less educated people astray.  So, I feel compelled to keep things in balance by replying to his silly remarks and unfounded accusations, even though it's beginning to be a big pain in the butt keeping up with his ludicrous remarks.

 

The worst part is that none of these things are really rocket science; if he simply googled a little before posting such silly and misleading remarks, he would save himself a lot of embarrassment, and be less of a counter-productive force in these threads.

 

I know this post may be off-topic for this thread but the incredible inaccuracies of this poster's malicious, self-serving remarks are hard to ignore if you really care about science based facts. 

 

Just setting the record straight.

Edited September 26, 2019 by WaveHunter

[orang37]

15 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

Just setting the record straight.

I find your posts interesting, informative, and you appear to me to be "medically credible," and responsible. However, I think you are wasting time arguing/rebutting with those who disagree with you. You do have the option to block posters from view.

 

Why not just be confident you have articulated, well, your own story, and buttressed its "facts" with some reputable research.

 

cheers, ~o:37;

[WaveHunter]

33 minutes ago, orang37 said:

I find your posts interesting, informative, and you appear to me to be "medically credible," and responsible. However, I think you are wasting time arguing/rebutting with those who disagree with you. You do have the option to block posters from view.

 

Why not just be confident you have articulated, well, your own story, and buttressed its "facts" with some reputable research.

 

cheers, ~o:37;

Thanks for your comment, and you are correct that it is probably a losing battle arguing/rebutting with this Op who has a clearly inflammatory and self-serving agenda. 

 

However, the reason I post these replies to the Op's silly remarks is simply because I have a passion for science based fact and feel compelled to voice my dissent for those who have no respect for it. 

 

I don't voice my dissent to win an argument with this Op, but do it in the interest of other like-minded people who want to explore science based fact, not self-serving and mean spirited fiction. 

 

Granted, this thread started out as merely an inquiry on where to purchase Test in Chiang Mai, but many people asked a range of questions about TRT treatment, so I think it's entirely appropriate to address those questions. 

 

True I am not a medical authority and I have never made a claim to be, but I am not dispensing medical advice, only sharing science-based information provided by my own highly respected doctor so that others here can be well-informed when they discuss the subject with their doctor.

Edited September 26, 2019 by WaveHunter

[CNXexpat]

On 5/1/2019 at 10:59 AM, WaveHunter said:

I can say that Dr. Nisachon Morgan in Chinag Mai is excellent!  She is an incredibly well informed and compassionate general practitioner (GP).

but also

On 5/1/2019 at 12:11 PM, amexpat said:

I agree that Dr. Morgan is a good general practitioner but TRT may not be her thing. An endocrinologist at Ram, whom I regard very highly, disagreed sharply with her recommendations. 

Now I am confused. Is Dr. Morgan a good choice for this? Is she right or the endocrinologist at Ram? 

[flare]

Did anyone find a pharmacy with testoviron depot in stock?

[amexpat]

9 hours ago, CNXexpat said:

but also

Now I am confused. Is Dr. Morgan a good choice for this? Is she right or the endocrinologist at Ram? 

I would go with the specialist.  Dr Vipawan Chantapanich. 

[CNXexpat]

1 hour ago, amexpat said:

I would go with the specialist.  Dr Vipawan Chantapanich. 

Where can I find her or him at Ram, do you have a telephone number?

[amexpat]

19 minutes ago, CNXexpat said:

Where can I find her or him at Ram, do you have a telephone number?

For appt with her 053-920300 

[WaveHunter]

Just returned to Chiang Mai from Pattaya and surprised to find that Peera is no longer stocking injectable testosterone.  Luckily I stocked up while in Pattaya.  I have always liked Peera but their explanation that injectable Test is no longer available in Thailand is nonsense since it is in stock at a number of pharmacies in Pattaya and Jomtien.

 

A few months ago I was told by somebody on this forum that the pharmacy a few doors down from Peera is selling injectable test, but since they have no phone listed I have not been able to corroborate that.  If anybody checks them out, please post your finding here.

 

Here is the map link and a photo of storefront from Google Maps:  https://goo.gl/maps/qqht9LMWBL1YzyNJ9

 

Edited November 23, 2019 by WaveHunter

[CNXexpat]

On 11/20/2019 at 12:35 PM, amexpat said:

For appt with her 053-920300 

I made an appointment with her for Friday. Then Ram called me that it has changed to Monday. Today they called me again that Dr. Vipawan has no time on Monday but I can visit Dr. Thamanun (or something like that). I said that I have heard, that Dr. Vipawan is a good and a specialist. They said, that Dr. Thamanun is also a specialist but more modern, whatever it means. Strange.

[WaveHunter]

14 hours ago, CNXexpat said:

I made an appointment with her for Friday. Then Ram called me that it has changed to Monday. Today they called me again that Dr. Vipawan has no time on Monday but I can visit Dr. Thamanun (or something like that). I said that I have heard, that Dr. Vipawan is a good and a specialist. They said, that Dr. Thamanun is also a specialist but more modern, whatever it means. Strange.

Just chiming in here regarding Dr. Morgan.  She has been my only physician since I moved to Thailand and I found her to not only be an excellent GP but also to be very competent in regard to TRT. 

 

I started TRT several years before moving to Thailand and my US physician was a highly regarded endocrinologist.  While I thought that was a very important factor initially, I began to realize after a while that TRT is a very inexact science and specific protocols and interpretations of blood panels are highly open to debate from one physician to the next.  The key factor in TRT is the interpretation of ALL related blood panels, not just tracking testosterone levels. 

 

While it is just my opinion, I do not think it takes a specialist to do that.  A knowledgeable, well-read GP is perfectly capable of this, and I have found Dr. Morgan to be such a physician.  She is very proficient at interpreting ALL blood panels before and during TRT, and making appropriate adjustments.

 

What's more, she is a very compassionate doctor who truly takes an interest in delivering the best possible care for all of her patients and she happens to be an excellent diagnostician.  She knows how to ask you the right questions and most important of all...she knows how to listen, is very patient at letting you talk,  and responds with outstanding advice that has always made me confident I'm receiving the best possible care!  Also, it is very easy and quick meet with her (not just a nurse of PA) in spite of her popularity because her office administrators run a very efficient office.

 

Bottom line, you will not go wrong by choosing her as your MD for TRT IMO.   

 

Edited November 25, 2019 by WaveHunter

[amexpat]

Wavehunter, what you wrote ALL applies to Dr Vipawan as well. Good luck.

[WaveHunter]

8 minutes ago, amexpat said:

Wavehunter, what you wrote ALL applies to Dr Vipawan as well. Good luck.

I've no doubt you are probably correct but it sounds like the Op was having trouble scheduling to see her, and the one thing I DO think that is important with TRT is developing a good personal relationship with your physician; one where the doctor gets to know you well over time, and takes a personal interest in your care, and will personally meet with you on every visit.  A good doctor learns just as much about a patient from face-to-face encounters as they do from a medical history.

 

Edited November 25, 2019 by WaveHunter

[Somnambulist]

On 11/23/2019 at 12:20 PM, WaveHunter said:

Just returned to Chiang Mai from Pattaya and surprised to find that Peera is no longer stocking injectable testosterone.  Luckily I stocked up while in Pattaya.  I have always liked Peera but their explanation that injectable Test is no longer available in Thailand is nonsense since it is in stock at a number of pharmacies in Pattaya and Jomtien.

 

A few months ago I was told by somebody on this forum that the pharmacy a few doors down from Peera is selling injectable test, but since they have no phone listed I have not been able to corroborate that.  If anybody checks them out, please post your finding here.

 

Here is the map link and a photo of storefront from Google Maps:  https://goo.gl/maps/qqht9LMWBL1YzyNJ9

 

 

Edited November 25, 2019 by Somnambulist
confused

[Somnambulist]

Yep, that pharmacy sells the Meditech brand, 250mg.  It's my first time injecting testosterone.  I just injected today for the 4th time, so I bought it ten or eleven days ago.  He also sells all of the necessary needles, although I wish he had 1ml syringes instead of 3ml because it would make it easier to get the dosage right.  

And yes, I'm feeling it ????

[Somnambulist]

And about Peera, I used to go to her for everything, but she seems to have a rigid mindset at times.  She spouted the same nonsense to me recently.  

[WaveHunter]

27 minutes ago, Somnambulist said:

Yep, that pharmacy sells the Meditech brand, 250mg.  It's my first time injecting testosterone.  I just injected today for the 4th time, so I bought it ten or eleven days ago.  He also sells all of the necessary needles, although I wish he had 1ml syringes instead of 3ml because it would make it easier to get the dosage right.  

And yes, I'm feeling it ????

FYI, you can buy 1ml syringes (THB280 for box of 100).  Ships from Bangkok so you have them in a couple of days.

 

https://www.lazada.co.th/products/100-syringe-nipro-1ml-i455558784-s840336404.html?spm=a2o4m.searchlist.list.17.4c561517mLw4X8&search=1

 

Buy your needles locally.  Draw with an 18ga needle and switch to 23ga or 25ga 1 1/2 inch for IM injection is what I do.

 

Hope you are doing blood tests and consulting with an MD.

Edited November 25, 2019 by WaveHunter

[Somnambulist]

On 9/25/2019 at 5:20 PM, NaamGin said:

Not sure as Dr Morgan has been my personal physician for years. I would suspect she would want to do a physical on you and check your testosterone levels before recommending a dosage, although it couldn't hurt to call and ask.

Is HCMC in the Geriatric Medical Center?  If not, could you post a map or link?  

[Somnambulist]

Wavehunter - I got tested last year and was told I'm very low.  I know I'm doing this ass backwards, but I'm going to go see a doctor and start doing it right.  Do you see Dr. Morgan by appointment?  If so, you you have a phone number?  

[WaveHunter]

2 minutes ago, Somnambulist said:

Is HCMC in the Geriatric Medical Center?  If not, could you post a map or link?  

It's across the street from her office.  Here's link to Dr. Morgan's office:  https://goo.gl/maps/VbJJ7p3ihvwSFK2p6

[WaveHunter]

3 minutes ago, Somnambulist said:

Wavehunter - I got tested last year and was told I'm very low.  I know I'm doing this ass backwards, but I'm going to go see a doctor and start doing it right.  Do you see Dr. Morgan by appointment?  If so, you you have a phone number?  

Yes, appointment needed but very quick to book...same day usually if you need it fast.  082 766 8672.  Check link I posted above for map.  She's a great doctor and a very nice person too ????

 

Edited November 25, 2019 by WaveHunter

[Somnambulist]

Much appreciated ????

[flare]

Anyone currently using the IM injection method should do a little research on the latest info regarding injecting testosterone (cypionate or enanthate) via the subcutaneous route (the recommended needle being 25G 5/8"- that's 15.875mm).

 

Both methods ultimately provide the user with the same average level over time, but the subQ injections show less variation (T level tends to spike and ebb between injection days) over IM due to the slower absorption rate of fat vs muscle- it's also way easier to inject yourself.  
 

There's absolutely nothing wrong with going IM and I'm not trying to start a big argument over how T should be injected- it's just that subQ is another option that's become popular over the last five years or so, and has shown some possible benefits.

 

One clinical test- http://www.bioscience.org/2018/v10e/af/825/2.htm