Holidayed to Thailand in 1983, Moved to Thailand 1997, Left Thailand 2019,

[huckingfell]

I am not sure if this is the correct forum ,but here goes,

 

A short story of my years in Thailand, and why we left. A bit of history I was born in 1950 so I am now nearly 69 years old, after my first holiday here in 1983 I did everything I could to live here permanently, and made the big move in 1997, I will not go into ‘those were the days’, many have done that before, but I thought some may want to hear why after all of this time here we returned to Blighty.

       There were a few reasons and I will mention some of them, hopefully it may make a few decisions by others easier to make. The main reason for leaving was the rising price of health insurance here, the premiums have been steadily going up as I was getting older, for myself and my wife, the risk of becoming ill as my age increased was also of course getting greater.

       Whilst living in Thailand all of my income was from the UK, despite what some may think I am not a tax or National Insurance exile, I have paid all of my dues, so I do not have any feelings of guilt to go back to the UK if I should in the future become ill, in fact on the few occasions I have needed healthcare I have paid for it here and not put any burden on the UK, and it is the long term health care that I would advise anyone moving here permanently to consider.

         Most youngster consider themselves to be invincible when it comes to health, I did, but as I grew older more of my friends both here and in the UK developed health problems that were expensive and ongoing, so I would suggest you make sure you plan for emergencies, not only now but 30 or even 40 years down the line, many here have not, health insurance is expensive, not having it even worse, assuming your health care company pays up if you do need them, one friend of mine thought he was covered, but alas the company refused to pay, until he waged a long battle with them, not the sort of thing you want to do after major surgery.

        Before you do decided to come out here, what happens if things do go wrong and you need to return home? a few people I know sold up, their car, house, everything, sold the lot, spent most of it in Thailand and now if they do want to return they do not have a home to go to, what then? I guess staying with your kids is one option, but then as one OAP was told by his kids, ‘you ran off leaving us for 30 years, now the monies run out you want to come back and live in the spare room?’, not the best homecoming, so I would caution against selling your home to come here, I was convinced I would never return permanently to the UK in 1997, but here we are, thank goodness I did not sell my place in the UK.

         Inflation is a fact of life, no matter where you live, Thailand is no different, when I bought my truck 17 years ago I was told it had enough diesel to drive to the nearest U turn and get to the petrol station almost opposite Nissan dealership I bought it from, totally empty to full, 990 baht, when I sold the truck last year from empty on the gauge to just between half and three quarters full, 1,000 baht and the tank was nowhere near as empty as when I filled it the first time, never underestimate inflation.

        Above are some of reasons we left, but also other small factors helped us make the decision. Somehow, almost imperceptibly, there seemed to be a hardening of attitude from some of the locals towards us over the years, still lots of happy smiling faces, but noticeably there seemed to be an almost hostile element creeping in towards us from some of the local shop staff and population, maybe we imagined it, but I think not.

       The ever increasing trips to immigration, not a major factor in itself, but going to immigration is never a pleasant experience, every 90 days, plus of course the yearly retirement extension, also having been abroad few times every year the TM 30 had to be filled in, well it did at the time but I think it does not now if you stay at the same address, but I am talking about when we left, several months ago, not now, what for us was always a worry, was that for whatever reason permission to stay was at the discretion of the issuing officer, although we had all of the i’s dotted and the t’s crossed, it was always a worry.

        It was not a problem to keep 800,000 in the bank for 3 months; we never used an agent, we were told that we would both have to satisfy the financial requirements and have 800,000 each in separate accounts as my wife was not Thai, which we did, but on another occasion we were told as she is my wife we would only need the money in my account, which officer do you believe? So we both kept 800,000 in each of two accounts, not a problem, but keeping that amount in for 7 months and then keeping in 1.6 million for the other 5 months of the year for each of us would be a bit of a problem.

        There are a few other minor things that made the decision for us to move back to the UK easier, above are some. Thailand has been very kind to us, and I am sure we will miss the country a lot; the good news is that my wife has visited the UK with me three times and she loves it here, especially the cold!

Mods I am not sure if you will allow this paragraph, so please remove if it is against forum policy, as my wife is Filipino we make a daily post of our time together, so that her family and friends in the Philippines can see what we are doing, the blog goes back literally every day, so anyone can visit restaurants, islands and shows we have visited in our time together in Thailand, and now of course our daily life in the UK, <removed>

         As an aside the moving company we used was Eagle Movers (Thailand) Co., Ltd. The Ninth Tower 9 Huai Khwang, Bangkok 10310, we had 2 cubic meters of goods to go, and had quotes of over 200,000 baht from some companies, (I think the quotes of some were artificially high to keep small moves away), Eagle quoted under 30,000 baht so we went with them, the service is slow, but we were in no hurry, please note we have no association with Eagle other than using their services.

           I hope the above may be of help to anyone thinking of making the big move, best regards, Huckingfell.

[tassieman]

Thanks. Enjoyed the read and your insights Huckingfell. All the best for the return.

[BritManToo]

23 minutes ago, huckingfell said:

but then as one OAP was told by his kids, ‘you ran off leaving us for 30 years, now the monies run out you want to come back and live in the spare room?’

The correct answer being, you can return the years I provided for you, then I'll leave.

Unfortunately these days, what you did in the past for your white kids counts for nothing in the future.

[jmd8800]

A nice well written piece. Thanks for your insight.

[Lacessit]

An interesting OP. The key seems to be health concerns, and committing too much in assets to Thailand.

Personally, it really doesn't matter to me if I die in Thailand or Australia. I'm fortunate to have a GF here to care for me, and a son in Australia who supports me there.

[AlexRich]

It was a smart move to keep your property in the UK. If you stay in Thailand you might reach an age where you either cannot get medical insurance or the premium is prohibitively expensive. In the UK at least you know you will be treated, and you won't be worrying about whether the insurer has found a loophole to get out of funding it. 

 

A good read for anyone contemplating going "all in" on Thailand.

[Puchaiyank]

Enjoy your new home...remember the good times in Thailand...make some new memories...visit again when you can...thanks for the posting...????

[jakestevernson]

Thanks for the post, a good read. Keeping a property in the West World gives you a good safety net - sound advice.

[Leaver]

So, it appears you have gone full circle. 

 

It's interesting how many here think the Thai circle will never end for them.

[justin case]

it is time for the EU / USA to give back to immigrants what their own people get or lack in other countries ... NO nationality for us here, should mean, no free EU / USA passport, EVER for THAIS...maybe that would push those xyz to start to do something...

 

no, guess not, government does not care for thais either

[canuckamuck]

The whole world is going to <deleted> anyhow, best just to find a safe place, keep your head down and take care of your loved ones as the curtain closes on the enlightenment.

[sammieuk1]

Good post but how easy was it to get your wife to the UK would be my problem in this scenario ????

[alanrchase]

1 hour ago, justin case said:

it is time for the EU / USA to give back to immigrants what their own people get or lack in other countries ... NO nationality for us here, should mean, no free EU / USA passport, EVER for THAIS...maybe that would push those xyz to start to do something...

 

no, guess not, government does not care for thais either

And maybe Thailand should stop giving EU/USA 30 days visa exempt entries and make people from those countries jump through hoops to get a tourist visa.

[eggers]

Thanks, as been said by many..

I know from my perspective I often think about whether to stay longer or return to home country (HC).

Visit HC each year &costs have risen dramatically; it's far more expensive to live there, than here, i.e utility costs are exorbitant there & in fact, I'd have financial difficulty living there. 

I live in Thailand w/o any pension support from HC Gov't, it's not an entitlement, you must apply & meet criteria that also requires recipient to physically report to Gov't office every 3 mths or lose the pension!!... know of expats who receive pension & travel back every 3 mths to report!! Ludicrous!! As pointed out, being in Thailand the main issue is health & cost of treatment, even w/ health insurance. The insurers are out NOT to pay & put every exclusion possible to avoid paying.... Agree, the Visa & reporting "rigamarole" is a nuisance factor, hopefully, the Thai Gov't will make it easier for legit Expat!!

Thanks again, huckingfell.... enjoy your life back home!!

[blazes]

An interesting summing-up.

For a decade, I was an expat for six months and a UK resident for the other six.  I no longer do the six months in Thailand part.

Why did I come to LoS in the first place?  (1) Much lower cost of living (2009), (2) beautiful younger women, and (3) warm weather between November and April.

My (Thai) wife is delightful and intelligent, the cost of living has shot up, and the pollution and heat are insufferable.

My three reasons for being in Thailand are now null and void.

 

I read ThaiVisa daily and the one thing above all that stands out as I read the headlines at the beginning is the almost universal fear people have of Thai immigration and its fatuous irrational changes to their money-spinning scam.  And Huckingfell's (great name by the way!) reference to this 800,000 baht con job sums up precisely the massive pain in the a$$ living in LoS has become.  (Not to mention the 90-day traipse to the office to prove you're a good boy and not a criminal moving from place to place.)

And compare how well your Thai wife is treated in UK or any other Western country and you can see, by comparison, the racism that dominates Thai society, from top to bottom.  Yes yes, we all know perfectly lovely and generous ("nam jai") Thai people, but if you go by the behaviour of Thai Immigration you would have to conclude that LoS is an intensely racist society.

 

 

[GinBoy2]

I always kept a house, just in case which ended up a very good insurance policy.

 

As for cold. 

 

We live in Western South Dakota, so life on tundra can be a bit extreme at times, yet my wife loves it.

Snow is great for her. I think it's a bit of a stereotype that Thai's don't deal with the cold and snow 

[Gecko123]

Interesting and enjoyable post.

 

The OP describes being able to move to Thailand at the age of 46 without needing to sell his house to finance the adventure, while at the same time having been able to secure a UK based income stream over the past 23 years. I, for one, would be curious to know more details about how he was able to do this.

 

I had good paying jobs, and saved aggressively in order to retire to Thailand at age 50. But to do what you described would have been very difficult. Maybe if the house was very modest I might have been able to swing it. Looking at the OP's story, I see he was an early baby boomer who might have been able to get into the real estate market before it started to really take off, and he might have benefitted from moving to Thailand in 1997 at the height of the Asian Contagion financial crisis.

 

But I doubt doing what he did would be possible today for very many 46 year olds. He is to be commended for pointing out the hidden risks surrounding unplanned repatriation, but I don't think 'don't leave unless you have a house to return to' is necessarily the right message. Very few people can afford to eliminate that risk entirely, especially when they are still only in their mid-40's. It's just a risk that most will have to bear if they take the plunge.

Edited April 1, 2019 by Gecko123

[Thingamabob]

I'm 77 years old, 35 years in Thailand, with a break in Taiwan from '86 to '93. Obviously things have changed here a lot over time, as they have everywhere else. I've no intention to leave Thailand which is still, for me at least, a good place to live and, sooner or later, to die.

[5633572526]

1 hour ago, alanrchase said:

And maybe Thailand should stop giving EU/USA 30 days visa exempt entries and make people from those countries jump through hoops to get a tourist visa.

Thailand economy relies heavily on foreign tourists. Not sure about EU but the USA economy definitely doesn’t 

[Guderian]

I’ve been thinking along similar lines, though maybe not as drastic as the OP. I’m four years away from getting the UK state pension which will be worth around £8K/year, and I don’t want to lose indexation on that by living full-time in Thailand. I’m also aware that, although I’ve been lucky and am in pretty good shape and exercise every day, as time goes by the probability is that I’ll need more medical attention. I can’t get useful insurance due to the pre-existing clause, and with medical care getting ever-more expensive here (like everywhere) one possibility is to spend a bit over half the year back in the UK so that I’m resident for DWP/pension purposes and can get my ageing carcass seen to as necessary by the NHS, then spend the cold, grey winter months (that I hate back home) here in Thailand. I’ve got many friends here, house, car, girlfriend, etc., and don’t want to have to give all that up. Like the OP, I’ve kept my property in the UK and paid all my taxes and NI so moving back, at least part-time, isn’t really an issue. I guess I’m lucky to have the option.

[moe666]

I often wonder what immigration office many here apply at, nine years living here and I have never had the immigration experience people speak of. Have all my ducks in order give them the paper work, they shuffle thru it they may ask a few questions and I am done. I pay my money get my passport and go home. Yes the immigration officers are not what some would call friendly but I do not expect them to be, with a job that would kill most people from stress. Yes the new requirements can be a hassel especially if you were not meeting them in the first place. 

Not sure what people want or expect out of immigration I do not think most people here know. You are not in your home country you chose to move here, now deal with the rules that are in place, or move some place else you precieve as being easier.

Edited April 1, 2019 by moe666

[NCC1701A]

On 3/30/2019 at 7:30 PM, huckingfell said:

Whilst living in Thailand

Op, where do you live in Thailand?

[elgenon]

Thanks for the report. Do you by any chance know if Eagle Movers move people say from the US to Thailand?

[AgMech Cowboy]

1 hour ago, blazes said:

you would have to conclude that LoS is an intensely racist society.

You did not know they are racist? They just don't have the hugh SJW and PC crap to judge them. And thankfully there is no issue made about slavery (all slavery is wrong, but put it in the past).

 

Great post! Thank you. I've been here since '97, too. I hope to make it at least another to see my Son graduate from high school at Ruamrudee next summer.

[metisdead]

A troll post containing a paid to post allegation has been removed. 

[NCC1701A]

2 hours ago, alanrchase said:

And maybe Thailand should stop giving EU/USA 30 days visa exempt entries and make people from those countries jump through hoops to get a tourist visa.

why would they do that? make it hard for tourists with money to visit? 

[robertson468]

2 hours ago, blazes said:

An interesting summing-up.

For a decade, I was an expat for six months and a UK resident for the other six.  I no longer do the six months in Thailand part.

Why did I come to LoS in the first place?  (1) Much lower cost of living (2009), (2) beautiful younger women, and (3) warm weather between November and April.

My (Thai) wife is delightful and intelligent, the cost of living has shot up, and the pollution and heat are insufferable.

My three reasons for being in Thailand are now null and void.

 

I read ThaiVisa daily and the one thing above all that stands out as I read the headlines at the beginning is the almost universal fear people have of Thai immigration and its fatuous irrational changes to their money-spinning scam.  And Huckingfell's (great name by the way!) reference to this 800,000 baht con job sums up precisely the massive pain in the a$$ living in LoS has become.  (Not to mention the 90-day traipse to the office to prove you're a good boy and not a criminal moving from place to place.)

And compare how well your Thai wife is treated in UK or any other Western country and you can see, by comparison, the racism that dominates Thai society, from top to bottom.  Yes yes, we all know perfectly lovely and generous ("nam jai") Thai people, but if you go by the behaviour of Thai Immigration you would have to conclude that LoS is an intensely racist society.

 

 

Sorry, I don't see how you come to the conclusion "Thai immigration and its fatuous irrational changes to their money-spinning scam".  The original issue was that many of the Embassies were not checking the sources of income submitted by ex-pats.  Immigration became aware of this and asked them the pointed question, "do you check the sources of income submitted by individuals to you?"  The nearly universal answer was NO.  Therefore and not surprisingly they were told to check.  Some Embassies decided that could/would not do this and stopped issueing the letters to individuals for submission to Immigrations. 

 

Sadly many are "didn't know this, or don't want to know this" and lay the blame at the door of Thai Immigration, which I feel is unfair.  As a retired ex-pat, I have to go through the same system myself and yes, given the option, I could do without it, but this is not my Country of origin and if i would like the privilege to live here, I have to toe the party line.  Have you had a look at the hoops Asians have to go through to get a UK Visa. 

 

Last couple of years I have returned to visit Family and sorry to say that UK has very little attraction for me to up sticks and go back, but I respect those who do, because everyone's circumstances are very different.  Fortunately we have a Thai Doctor in the Family, who is my medical insurance policy, but if it gets too bad, I will ask her to "put me quietly down".

[wotsdermatter]

Having lived in quite successfully in Thailand since 1996, I found many good points and some not so good in this screed, along with many grammatical errors which sometimes made it difficult to understand.  Having said that, I finally left Thailand in 2018 because I realised there were soon going to be many unsurmountable problems stemming from the government especially with changes to the immigration and visa policies and regulations, including, and especially the requirements needed for obtaining a visa, which is becoming more expensive.  Plus, on top of that, the increase of violent actions against us, for example, 4-5 against 1 for no acceptable reason and the flood of other nationalities entering the country without having the same restrictions and visa controls enforced upon them, and the reduced currency exchange rate led to my decision to say goodbye to a country that is no longer the Land of Smiles.   Now I will visit other countries to add to my already compilation of 43 or so that I have been to.  I can enjoy a cheap lifestyle in places like Spain where it is warm and has good cheap food and plenty of very good wine at reasonable prices and no gauging by government employees, such as immigration, the police, etc., no reporting every 90 days, no harassment by these officials and freedom to come and go without restrictions and that includes my being able to start a business without all of the BS that we get in Thailand.

'nuf sed.

[malibukid]

4 hours ago, justin case said:

it is time for the EU / USA to give back to immigrants what their own people get or lack in other countries ... NO nationality for us here, should mean, no free EU / USA passport, EVER for THAIS...maybe that would push those xyz to start to do something...

 

no, guess not, government does not care for thais either

agreed. recall the U.S. ambassador to Thailand.

[malibukid]

32 minutes ago, robertson468 said:

Sorry, I don't see how you come to the conclusion "Thai immigration and its fatuous irrational changes to their money-spinning scam".  The original issue was that many of the Embassies were not checking the sources of income submitted by ex-pats.  Immigration became aware of this and asked them the pointed question, "do you check the sources of income submitted by individuals to you?"  The nearly universal answer was NO.  Therefore and not surprisingly they were told to check.  Some Embassies decided that could/would not do this and stopped issueing the letters to individuals for submission to Immigrations. 

 

Sadly many are "didn't know this, or don't want to know this" and lay the blame at the door of Thai Immigration, which I feel is unfair.  As a retired ex-pat, I have to go through the same system myself and yes, given the option, I could do without it, but this is not my Country of origin and if i would like the privilege to live here, I have to toe the party line.  Have you had a look at the hoops Asians have to go through to get a UK Visa. 

 

Last couple of years I have returned to visit Family and sorry to say that UK has very little attraction for me to up sticks and go back, but I respect those who do, because everyone's circumstances are very different.  Fortunately we have a Thai Doctor in the Family, who is my medical insurance policy, but if it gets too bad, I will ask her to "put me quietly down".

you missed the point.  immigration is not interested in verifiable income. they are in collusion with the banks to demand that we deposit money into their banks.  my embassy will not do this. it would take a few extra minutes and i would be willing to pay a certified accountant to do this and have my embassy notorize the paper work.  immigration would still not take it. they want money into a Thai bank either monthly or a lump sum deposit. baloney. give us the money, do not show us the money. and btw, just keep spending while you are here.  so put money into bank for the privilege of spending big bucks here on top of that.   you got to be kidding.