HEPA filters don't work for smoke

[vivid]

BTW, there is a whole list of chinese videos regarding air purifiers, how they test, the test results etc.  Something like consumer reports, chinese style.  The testing is legit, the agencies are legit, just that maybe some claim so and so and then fudge the numbers subsequently.

 

Unfortunately no closed caption so non-chinese viewers wouldn't understand, so just view the video if you are interested in this prolonged haze season if you are stuck at home.....  

 

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=空气净化器

[cheeryble]

$139 is Singapore not Thailand right?


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[vivid]

1 minute ago, cheeryble said:

$139 is Singapore not Thailand right?


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

Yep....i'm living in SG.  I know that's not very useful at all, but just some info.  They don't send to Thailand also i think.   Hey, it's not too shabby on lazada thailand right?  I am seeing prices like 4300 baht thereabouts. 

[vivid]

What........Xiaomi now has a MAX version, doing CADR 1000 m3/hr?  ????

 

https://detail.tmall.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.1.62b129b4qGCOA7&id=563390611385&cm_id=140105335569ed55e27b&abbucket=12

 

[vivid]

Here's some results obtained from the chinese test agencies.

30m3 chamber, 3000 ug/m3 starting concentration (cigarette smoke as source). 

There's also a Honeywell KJ900F.

 

The Dyson air purifier is junk  (the last one).  Forget about what PM0.1 claims by it.  The others would do better just by the virtue of higher CADR + bigger filters so the PM0.1 performance would still be way better via brute force.

 

Xiaomi 2S over performed its official listed spec.  The Xiaomi MAX underperformed a little.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

8 hours ago, THAIJAMES said:

As it turns out I may be the foolish one for relying on my p.m. 2.5 sensors and regular HEPA filters.

 

Nope, the only foolish thing in the CM area these days is anyone who doesn't have a HEPA unit filtering their indoor air.

[THAIJAMES]

1 hour ago, vivid said:

Here's some results obtained from the chinese test agencies.

30m3 chamber, 3000 ug/m3 starting concentration (cigarette smoke as source). 

There's also a Honeywell KJ900F.

 

The Dyson air purifier is junk  (the last one).  Forget about what PM0.1 claims by it.  The others would do better just by the virtue of higher CADR + bigger filters so the PM0.1 performance would still be way better via brute force.

 

Xiaomi 2S over performed its official listed spec.  The Xiaomi MAX underperformed a little.

 

I guess what you're saying is with heavy pollution levels like for example above 400 having a high cadr will be able to handle it.

 

There was one poster saying that when the pollution was around 700 the best the xiaomi s2 could do was bring it down to 200.

 

You're basically saying having the pro or the max would bring it down much more than that?

Would the max for example bring it down from 200 to 66 because of the three times increased cadr?

Edited April 1, 2019 by THAIJAMES

[vivid]

54 minutes ago, THAIJAMES said:

I guess what you're saying is with heavy pollution levels like for example above 400 having a high cadr will be able to handle it.

 

There was one poster saying that when the pollution was around 700 the best the xiaomi s2 could do was bring it down to 200.

 

You're basically saying having the pro or the max would bring it down much more than that?

Would the max for example bring it down from 200 to 66 because of the three times increased cadr?

 

The single most important aspect is actually identifying where the leaks are in a leaky room.  A room is easy to ID, but if it's a living room/dining area esp in a house with certain special design features then there might be multiple areas where it might be leaky.

Better than just by using sheer brute force.  However, you cannot fully plug all the leaks, there must be some very slight air exchange so that the CO2 concentration is kept down, else that might present issues after a few hours.  Those with CO2 meters and have played with it would know what i mean.   Keep it too airtight and it'd end up having very stale air in the house and having a generally stale and heavy feeling, which might lead to headaches later.   And having headaches is also one of the symptoms of breathing in too much smoke, so you might mistakenly attribute it to the haze then....but nope it could be the high indoor CO2 levels as well.

 

A high CADR machine would be able to bring levels down faster in a big room than a small CADR machine when you first start the AP.    And yes, external levels also make a difference in varying the lowest PM2.5 levels you can get in the house, again that's simply because you cannot really get a room to be 100% airtight due to CO2 buildup.   A very high CADR AP can of course get indoor levels to go down even lower than a low CADR AP, but that's not really the way to approach the issue as that'd be rather inefficient.  

 

So it's a fine balance between plugging up a leaky room and getting it to be overly airtight.   My windows have double gasket and the only gap left then is the door gap at the bottom of the door.  If i close the windows 100%, i could get the CO2 levels to well over 2000pm, the air is gonna be very stale.  

[vivid]

It's also very difficult to quantify how leaky is the room, simply because each and every house/room is different.

 

Even for my own case, say i leave a 5mm gap, during windy days that is sufficient to get it below 1000ppm CO2 as the air would come in from the window and leave via the door gap.  During windless days, 5mm gap is insufficient and i'd need to open a 40mm.

 

So it really depends.

[Shengen]

Any filter you buy with an actual.. filter medium.. will get permeated by the smell, and after a couple weeks will in fact blow the smell back into the room when you turn it on.

Unless you want to buy expensive filters constantly, I suggest getting a good plasma filter.

https://houseweather.org/best-air-purifier-for-smoke/#product2

 

Something like that would be excellent, however bigger is better.

Speaking from the experience of smoking lots of ganja, cigars, cigarettes, and hookah daily in my NON smoking apartment for one year, and when I left there was absolutely no smell after leaving it on for a week or so.

Ionic filters actually produce ions of ozone that float through the air and even clean the smell of of surfaces. They're pretty neat.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

23 minutes ago, Shengen said:

Ionic filters actually produce ions of ozone that float through the air and even clean the smell of of surfaces. They're pretty neat.

 

They're also a potential health hazard. Because ozone itself is an air pollutant and is a respiratory irritant. There used to be brands of ionic air purifiers some years back that were popular for a time, until health regulators realized the ozone they were creating was harming people's health, and they were thus pretty much banned.

 

So what you really want is a good HEPA filter along with a charcoal prefilter that can capture a lot of the odors and larger smoke particles before they ever reach the HEPA filter. And charcoal pre-filters are cheap and easy to replace regularly, unlike HEPA filters.

 

[lopburi3]

1 hour ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

They're also a potential health hazard. Because ozone itself is an air pollutant and is a respiratory irritant.

But negative ions themselves are not and there is no need to produce unhealthy amounts of ozone.  There was a large class action against a Sharper Image model long ago (a very expensive model that did produce too much ozone) and it has that stigma but the fact is it does work very well for people that have not stopped smoking living with those that do not want to breath it.  But it is a transfer method - the particles stick to walls to the point of making it black if not removed often.  So although it gets the smell out of the air it remains in dirt form - but for smokers may be worthwhile using.  And some hepa filters do provide that option (including the Hatari A-12).  Ozone can also be safely to help clean a house that is not occupied but as said should not be used in occupied areas. 

[Tayaout]

Relevant long read: https://smartairfilters.com/data/en/

[Tayaout]

On 4/1/2019 at 9:25 AM, THAIJAMES said:

Wow. As usual the price is double in Thailand.

But to be honest with you even at 200 it's cheap.

I love being able to turn them on remotely an hour or two before I get home.

 

On 4/1/2019 at 2:30 PM, vivid said:

Dang it, S$139 only now at my local online site.  ????  

Tempted.

That's 3258B.  ????

Get 4pcs of them and your wallet won't even break a sweat, and then haul some 1200m3/hr of air.  Might need earplugs for continuous operation though.  ????

 

It's 4000 baht from their official Thai store: https://s.lazada.co.th/s.ZpvV6

3500 you can get the Chinese version. 

 

I bought the pro version for less than 6000.

I like it very much but the auto mode is near useless. The fan doesn't seems to speed up before it reachs 150-200 pm2.5. I keep it at a fixed speed and it stays at 1 and occasionally under 10 when the neighbors are burning stuff. 

Edited October 31, 2019 by Tayaout