Help please - I am loosing it soon!

[boonrawdcnx]

Could somebody here help me out please to assess the approx. cost of electricity supply to our new house.

This is our third house in Thailand and we never ever encountered the problems we are in countering now with our electricity connection.

 

We are currently on the “temporary” building electricity connection.

 

A few weeks ago we started to inquire about the permanent electricity connection to the house since we want to move into our new home soon.

The house Is approximately 300 m away from the next main road - the 300 m is our private access road on our land.

 

The House is a regular two bedroom house - all LED lighting 3 air cons, two bathrooms with electric 6000w water heaters and the regular household appliances like fridge, tv’s, stereos an electric oven but cooking is gas.

 

A small sized pool for which I will consider using a solar pump.

 

There are three guest houses with one bedroom each and one air-conditioner each, 1 water heater again regular household appliances like fridge television all LED lighting.

 

 

Now here it comes - First inquiry an outside company that quoted us 150,000 baht to have the house connected.

On poles and the last 60 to 70 m or so to go underground.

 

But they then came back and told us since we have the three guest houses regular electric supply will not be enough and that we would also need a transformer they then came back with a new quote of aporox. 300,000 baht.

 

Thinking this was a little overpriced we contacted PEA through a “friend”

at the OrBorDor- but like somebody mentioned in this forum already “not in their official capacity” but doing the job privately.

 

After keeping us waiting for almost 2 weeks now today we had a visit apparently from the head of the PEA from our local office and the man came up with a quote that almost knocked me off my chair!

 

He quoted us 640,000 baht for the electricity connection to our house and the three bungalows!!!

 

I mean I do understand that these people are trying to take advantage of us Farangs here -but do they really think we are absolutely stupid?

 

Could somebody on here with the knowledge - please in layman‘s terms - let us know what kind of connection we would need and the approximate cost.

 

 

Very grateful for any advise and help we can get!

 

 

 

 

 

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[johng]

It seems to me you have more than just a "regular house" more like a small "resort" did they quote you for a 3 phase supply ?

[CharlieH]

I know of 3 similar set-ups where transformer 3 phase  etc was required and they paid near to 1 million for the supply/connection etc.

So at 640k it actually sounds a good deal by comparison.

(Circumstances vary).

[boonrawdcnx]

No not for 3 phase just regular 1 phase connection.


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[CharlieH]

Our resident "spark" Mod Crossy may be along to give a qualified opinion. I do know that a single supply max is generally 45a  typical home supply is 15a..

 

[boonrawdcnx]

I mean the guy who showed up today must think we are total idiots - we told the OrBorDor that we thought that 300,000 was a bit over the top she then tells us she knows a guy in the PEA and she will give him a call.

Then the guy shows up and quotes us more than twice as much!?

Why what he think we would pay him 640,000 baht for something another company would do for 300,000 ?
I just can’t see any logic in this - Why would he even bother to come and see us and quote his outrageous price?



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[bwpage3]

You need to understand the electrical requirement to all our your houses (current draw in amps)

 

If this amount exceeds the amount of amperage provided on the normal service line in your area, you will need a transformer to handle the required load.

 

Do you know what the basic amp service is in your area?

 

I used to have a problem where running the a/c and clothes dryer (electric) at the same time would blow the breaker. Had to have the service increased from basic 10 to 15 service. Had my wife do it because I knew they would overcharge me. 

 

As to the cost, basic knowledge if you approached the PEA as a farang, who know all to well you are getting overcharged.

 

The best way to approach this is if you are married to a thai, have your FIL contact the PEA. The price will be much different unless the gig is up and they already know a farang is behind this.

 

Didn't you know all farangs are rich? LOL

 

Good luck.

 

 

 

 

[ThomasThBKK]

I can top that, had to pay PEA around 1 mio THB for 1 km (might be more tho...) with transformer that is 200 kv (i think).

 

 

200k thb was for the transformer, that is indeed totally over the top tho (capacity wise)....

[bwpage3]

10 minutes ago, CharlieH said:

Our resident "spark" Mod Crossy may be along to give a qualified opinion. I do know that a single supply max is generally 45a  typical home supply is 15a..

 

Typical home supply is 10 Amp

 

15 amp is the upgraded service

 

Our old house was on typical 10 amp and when running the electric clothes dryer and A/C at the same time would always blow the breaker.

 

After my wife fought it out with the electric company they upgraded to 15 amp

 

I think since she handled it all, the price wasn't to bad although they did try to overcharge on the new meter

Edited April 3, 2019 by bwpage3

[Rimmer]

I paid ten years ago 800,000 baht for 12 poles, three  (22kva I think) HT lines and a 50kva transformer.

Don't need anything like 50Kva as my total take off can not exceed 56 amps but they would not consider anything less than all this three phase stuff which is totally unnecessary. 

[Lacessit]

Just wondering if one can generate their own electricity legally with a combination of solar and a diesel generator here.

[baansgr]

Stay on temporary.

[moontang]

they gave my brother 800 m, and 200 amp service for free in the US, underground.

[DaRoadrunner]

Likely the PEA employee does not get paid much salary. This being Thailand, they have to make money somehow. Get a Thai to deal with them. You may find a bribe gets the job done cheaper.

[simon43]

The first small hotel (10 air-cons) that I built in Phuket cost 1 million baht for the electricity supply because a transformer was installed, (and that tends to be the expensive part...).

 

But for my 2nd, 3rd and 4th hotels of similar size, I wanted to avoid using the expensive transformer.  Since this was a 3-phase supply, I carefully allocated the current load from all the rooms across the 3 phases and then promised the local PEA boss that I wouldn't 'blow' the supply!

 

For these 3 small hotels, my promise held good, no transformer was demanded, the install/supply quote was minimal and to date the supply hasn't been overloaded.

 

So it can be done with a careful electrical circuit design and load balancing etc, and an understanding PEA manager...

[bankruatsteve]

"I mean I do understand that these people are trying to take advantage of us Farangs here -but do they really think we are absolutely stupid?"

 

Why are you finding this out now?  It doesn't matter what others might think or have done.  You need to deal with your situation and, given your attitude, might be best to let someone else "negotiate".

[sometimewoodworker]

1 hour ago, bwpage3 said:

Typical home supply is 10 Amp

 

15 amp is the upgraded service

 

Our old house was on typical 10 amp and when running the electric clothes dryer and A/C at the same time would always blow the breaker.

 

After my wife fought it out with the electric company they upgraded to 15 amp

 

I think since she handled it all, the price wasn't to bad although they did try to overcharge on the new meter

There is no 10A service.

they are

5/15

15/30

30/100

Then 3 phase

 

The draw for the clothes dryer and AC would probably have been OK on the basic 5/15 service unless you had very large units. If your supply cables to your meter were reasonably sized then a 20A or 25A main breaker would have solved your problem. 

 

Of course the PEA will not tell you that.

[moontang]

PEA told my buyer not to use hot water and ac at the same time with 5-15 service.

[Khaeng Mak]

1 hour ago, simon43 said:

The first small hotel (10 air-cons) that I built in Phuket cost 1 million baht for the electricity supply because a transformer was installed, (and that tends to be the expensive part...).

 

But for my 2nd, 3rd and 4th hotels of similar size, I wanted to avoid using the expensive transformer.  Since this was a 3-phase supply, I carefully allocated the current load from all the rooms across the 3 phases and then promised the local PEA boss that I wouldn't 'blow' the supply!

 

For these 3 small hotels, my promise held good, no transformer was demanded, the install/supply quote was minimal and to date the supply hasn't been overloaded.

 

So it can be done with a careful electrical circuit design and load balancing etc, and an understanding PEA manager...

Yes my thoughts as well.  The are just trying to up sell you.  Just get three phrase run to the house.  And then get a private electrician to run single phase 10amp supply out to your bungalows.  I assume that you do not require separate meters on the bungalows?

 

And how far are the bungalows from your house as voltage drop may be an issue.

[Crossy]

Before jumping up and down we need to know exactly what PEA is offering for your 650k (or whatever). Are they offering a transformer?

 

Aluminium cable is much cheaper than copper for your overhead, but you need to change to copper for the underground section.

 

From your OP.

Bungalows:-

• 3.5kW water heaters (with diversity we can say 7kW)
• Say 3 x 9000 BTU air 2700W
• Assorted TV lights etc another 1500W

Total bungalows 11.2kw = 50A

 

House:-

• 2 x 6kW heaters (6kW with diversity)
• 3 x 12,000 BTU air (2.4kW assuming a max of two at a time)
• Assorted TV lights etc another 1500W

Total house 9.9kW = 45A

 

You are not going to run all that on a 15/45 and you may not be able to get a 30/100. Time to go 3-phase, 15/45 will easily do the trick.

 

Is there 220V 3-phase at the road? 

 

 

[boonrawdcnx]

You need to understand the electrical requirement to all our your houses (current draw in amps)
 
If this amount exceeds the amount of amperage provided on the normal service line in your area, you will need a transformer to handle the required load.
 
Do you know what the basic amp service is in your area?
 
I used to have a problem where running the a/c and clothes dryer (electric) at the same time would blow the breaker. Had to have the service increased from basic 10 to 15 service. Had my wife do it because I knew they would overcharge me. 
 
As to the cost, basic knowledge if you approached the PEA as a farang, who know all to well you are getting overcharged.
 
The best way to approach this is if you are married to a thai, have your FIL contact the PEA. The price will be much different unless the gig is up and they already know a farang is behind this.
 
Didn't you know all farangs are rich? LOL
 
Good luck.
 
 
 
 

Thanks for all your replies - I do understand all the hassles involved here have been here almost my entire life and this is our 3rd home built.
We have always strictly adhered to that the “Farang” will not attend the initial stage of negotiating since we are well aware that prices would be highly inflated then from the beginning.

Our old house is exactly opposite of our new building and we never had a problem with electricity supply.

The old house was huge with 5 bedrooms and all the electric appliances one can think of - no problem with electricity ever.

To me it is obvious that someone is trying to rip us off.

Our new builder has in the meantime contacted a friend in the city who works for the PEA there and he will come out today and will see how he can help us.

Will keep those interested informed of what happens next.

Thanks for all the replies so far!


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[boonrawdcnx]

Before jumping up and down we need to know exactly what PEA is offering for your 650k (or whatever). Are they offering a transformer?
 
Aluminium cable is much cheaper than copper for your overhead, but you need to change to copper for the underground section.
 
From your OP.
Bungalows:-

• 3.5kW water heaters (with diversity we can say 7kW)
• Say 3 x 9000 BTU air 2700W
• Assorted TV lights etc another 1500W

Total bungalows 11.2kw = 50A
 
House:-

• 2 x 6kW heaters (6kW with diversity)
• 3 x 12,000 BTU air (2.4kW assuming a max of two at a time)
• Assorted TV lights etc another 1500W

Total house 9.9kW = 45A
 
You are not going to run all that on a 15/45 and you may not be able to get a 30/100. Time to go 3-phase, 15/45 will easily do the trick.
 
Is there 220V 3-phase at the road? 
 
 

Thanks for your reply! Great stuff!

The guy from the PEA offered nothing more than the previous quote of 300.000 Baht which included a transformer approx. 230 meters above ground and the final 80 meters underground to the house.

Yes there is 3phase supply right opposite the main road - our old house is there and the new owners have just recently converted to 3 phase electricity.




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[boonrawdcnx]

Yes my thoughts as well.  The are just trying to up sell you.  Just get three phrase run to the house.  And then get a private electrician to run single phase 10amp supply out to your bungalows.  I assume that you do not require separate meters on the bungalows?
 
And how far are the bungalows from your house as voltage drop may be an issue.

Thanks for that - this is also what the friend of our new builder suggested today.

The bungalows are about 30 meters from the house.


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[steven100]

accept your 640,000 and just get the job done before it goes up again  !!

Getting power to your house and bungalows is not cheap and anyone will pay similar.

You are not a standard house connection .....  you are 300m away for a start, then there's the bungalows .... they cannot all be on your one standard 10A connection ... 

Crossy will answer .....

[sometimewoodworker]

16 hours ago, moontang said:

PEA told my buyer not to use hot water and ac at the same time with 5-15 service.

 AC and hot water at the same time on that supply is absolutely no problem, however if you have 2 or 3 showers and AC units then that will probably not be such a great idea.

[chrisinth]

18 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Just wondering if one can generate their own electricity legally with a combination of solar and a diesel generator here.

Shouldn't be a problem but you would need to do your calculations on the running costs of the genset, noise pollution from the set when running (yep, I know its Thailand but this is real) if not noise attenuated. Obviously have to be careful when sizing both the driver (engine) and the alternator as well. Think about the starting system as well (air/electric/hydraulic). If running 24/7 also need to think about alarms & trips as it is going to be left unattended for long periods of time. Certainly can be done though.

 

The problems come when trying to sell back to the grid unused generated power, rather getting the necessary licences to do so.

[Lee4Life]

Ten years ago we paid 78,000b for seven poles and the wire. The last two poles are inside our property and the wire inside our property line was our responsibility. At that time we were the only house on the road, now there are two others and the PEA spliced onto the wires on the pole in front of our house and ran them to new poles to service the others. When I asked if the others would have to reimburse us anything for the poles and wires we paid to have put in from the main road I was told "no...you should have waited for them to do it first". It's not a big deal though, it's just interesting.

     Compared to what you are looking at it was cheap though.

[Sumarianson]

That would make a house costing 500,000 1.5 million. I am an electrical installer and the cost should only be from the roadside not from a transformer station. I cannot comprehend this Thai pricing system. The most it would cost for a supply of 50Amp SWA cable buried for a distance up to 100 Metres would be no more than 60K to 90K. With meter installed. 

[natway09]

This is not a normal house 6 aircons, 4 hot water systems +++++++++++. You will need 100 amps preferably 3 phase & dependent on the supply load at the end of the road maybe a dedicated transformer. I estimate 6 to 700,000 Bht. If you seriously did not see this coming you have more money than sense

 

 

[crazykopite]

Last year I had to have 6 huge concrete poles a 30 KVA single phase transformer the total cost was 250,000 payable up front. This was done by my local PEA for 3 phase they wanted 750,000 in the end I decided to spend the money on using everything would be inverter air cons ,fridges, water heaters,  wash machine tumble dryer Mr Ken fans which convert from ac to dc outside I have 20 lights which don’t even amount to 100 watt even my swimming pool pump is inverter based all this cover 2 properties and as I said I use a single phase 30 kVA  I also installed a safe - T - cut before the main fuse boxes as Thailand is renowned for bad electricity and when I have had bad electric it’s cut my electric off with no issues

i have to assume they are trying to sell you 3 phase system which I don’t think you need as I said they tried it with me in the end I sat down with my contractor and worked out average consumption use .

Edited April 4, 2019 by crazykopite