Tourist Visa Extension denied at Immigration Office due to missing tm30 slip

[steven100]

4 minutes ago, humbug said:

but how the hell do you include the elite visa into this topic! recently there were 2 posters who were granted elite visas with an overstay history so maybe that thread needs to updated

who cares ....they got their visa, you have yours,  worry about your own situation, not everyone else's.

[brewsterbudgen]

I wonder if this is just an isolated case of Chaengwattana requiring a TM30 receipt?  If it was being enforced for all Extensions (Tourist, Work, Retirement, Marriage) there would be a lot of reaction, as most applicants are likely to be unaware of the requirement. There doesn't seem evidence of this, yet.

Edited April 6, 2019 by brewsterbudgen

[dotpoom]

16 hours ago, Austrian26 said:

they want to terminate the preagreement and send me back the money) 

Send it where...cannot just give it into your hand?

[JackThompson]

11 hours ago, DannyP said:

Yes, you re right about hotel. But my visa will expire at Sunday 7 April.

7 April - Sunday, weekend, immigration close

8 April - Monday, holiday, immigration close....

 

Its not problem about pay money for overstay. I can pay for overstay, easy. But I afraid I would show in immigration on overstay and will have problem. I can be denied, because Im no overstay MAYBE. And what then? 

 

@Austrian26 What do You plan? ????

As confirmed by another poster, you will not be fined / marked-down as overstaying, if you apply on Tuesday - the first day the office is open after your current permitted-stay expires.  

 

Get to CW early in the morning - it could be busy after a holiday, and you don't want any chance of not making it into that day's queue.

 

If they make any noises about your coming in after the date, explain your past hotel did not follow TM-30 rules, so you had to move to one that does to apply for the extension.

 

Your extension of stay will be back-dated - beginning from April 7th.

 

I would not check into another hotel unless they agree to give you a screen-shot of their filing your TM-30.  That should help you avoid the ones who don't do this (it's a new thing at CW, so could be many who don't).

 

In a worst case scenario, you could apply for 7 days - a "denied-extension" giving 7 days to leave the country.  I doubt they could force a TM-30 for that.  This would also be back-dated to start on April 7th.

[JackThompson]

47 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

I wonder if this is just an isolated case of Chaengwattana requiring a TM30 receipt?  If it was being enforced for all Extensions (Tourist, Work, Retirement, Marriage) there would be a lot of reaction, as most applicants are likely to be unaware of the requirement. There doesn't seem evidence of this, yet.

They are reported to do it for marriage-based already.  This follows the pattern at Jomtien - hitting tourists and married-to-Thais with this silliness first, while ignoring those on retirement based extensions. 

But if retired, I would get one on file, as they can always start fining folks and acting like "you were always supposed to do it," even though they always said "No, don't need it," before.  Keep in mind the occasional condo-raids, which also could hit retired-folks who were never asked to file a TM-30 at immigration.

[jacko45k]

14 hours ago, Essecola said:

Were you attempting to extend a 60 day tourist visa or a 30 day visa-exempt stamp? Some people mistakenly refer to the 30 day exempt stamp as a tourist visa. 

Is that relevant? 

Does it make any difference? 

 

 

Edited April 6, 2019 by jacko45k

[JustAnotherHun]

7 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

They are reported to do it for marriage-based already.  This follows the pattern at Jomtien - hitting tourists and married-to-Thais with this silliness first, while ignoring those on retirement based extensions. 

But if retired, I would get one on file, as they can always start fining folks and acting like "you were always supposed to do it," even though they always said "No, don't need it," before.  Keep in mind the occasional condo-raids, which also could hit retired-folks who were never asked to file a TM-30 at immigration.

As owner of my condo and on retirement I never provided a TM30 to Jomtion Immi.

But as you say, it's surely a good idea to do so because things can change from one day to the other here

[CMNightRider]

You have to wonder who on earth thought up this TM form nonsense in the first place.  It isn't as idiotic as the 90 day reporting but should get an honorable mention.

 

 

[jacko45k]

8 minutes ago, CMNightRider said:

You have to wonder who on earth thought up this TM form nonsense in the first place.  It isn't as idiotic as the 90 day reporting but should get an honorable mention.

 

 

Knowing where some guy is living has helped BJ a few times and I can see the sense in it wrt long term residents. Knowing the whereabouts of 3.5 million tourists arriving each month 24/7 is optimistic. Back packer don't know where they are themselves most of the time. 

[humbug]

1 hour ago, steven100 said:

who cares ....they got their visa, you have yours,  worry about your own situation, not everyone else's.

strange i was replying to another poster or are you saying you have multiple accounts on here?

 

 

[JimP]

Why did you give your TM slip to your condo owner, or was it a copy?  Keep the original stapled in your passport and avoid handing it out.

[NoshowJones]

17 hours ago, JackThompson said:

At many offices, if your extension expires while the office is closed, and you go for an extension the first day the office is open after this, you will not get an overstay.  

I know this is true for Jomtien - I thought this was national-policy, but I hope someone with CW experience should confirm.

What's true for Jomtien or any other Thai immigration office now, could be different next week.

This is Thailand and we are talking about their immigration offices.

[Essecola]

5 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Is that relevant? 

Does it make any difference? 

 

 

Whether it is a 60 day tourist visa or a 30 day visa exempt stamp is relevant because they are not extended at the same area of desks. Tourist visas are extended in section J, exempt stamps extended in section K.

[Took]

G'day!

 

I'd leave and re-enter the country to stay on the

safe side, as The OP has already decided.

[Ulic]

12 hours ago, JustAnotherHun said:

As owner of my condo and on retirement I never provided a TM30 to Jomtion Immi.

But as you say, it's surely a good idea to do so because things can change from one day to the other here

The problem is the rules/enforcement keep changing. This is my third one year stay in Thailand using triple entry/multi-entry TV's. On the first about 6 years ago, I did all my extensions and on all my interactions with immigration for proof of residence certificates, extensions, etc. there were no issues. On my second one year trip about 3 years ago they were starting to enforce the TM 30 rules and when I turned up after 60 days to get my first extension I was told to file a TM30. I jumped through the hoops filed the TM 30, no fine, not a problem and I was informed I would not need to file another TM30 while I was at the same address.  For the rest of the year even after leaving the country to get another tourist Visa in Vietnam, I didn't file another TM30, and there were no issues doing my 30-day extension. This year my landlord did my TM30 and dropped off my notice slip to me. For the next nine months, no problems. I picked up proof of residence certificates for drivers licenses, did my extensions using that same TM 30 slip. Then I went in on April 3rd to do a final 30-day extension before returning home. All of a sudden my "receipt of notification" slip was no longer valid. They wanted a new TM30 (yes I had left the country to Vientiane so spent one night in another address, as I had before) and I could see what was coming. A 2000 baht fine, and a waste of time jumping through hoops to get the paperwork and then having to pay 1900 baht for the extension. So I took the other option and did a Cambodian border bounce. 30 more days, and then flying home. I don't need anything from immigration so no need to file another TM30. The rules may change or be the same and just the enforcement changing. Either way, a pain in the ass and I just want to follow the rules as best I can. I will know for my next trip, that is if I come back. I really enjoyed Vietnam, and the Philippines is easier to get to with a direct flight and much fewer visa headaches. 

[Maestro]

On 4/5/2019 at 10:20 AM, Austrian26 said:

i couldn´t extend my tourist visa by 30 days today. they told me i need the tm 30 slip. 
So i went back to my new condo (to which i moved in 5 days ago and asked for the documents needed. I was going to get my contract this weekend and only had a preagreement so far)...

7

From the  English translation of the Immigration Act made available on the website of the Immigration Bureau (highlighting in bold red is mine):
 

Quote

 

Section 4 : In this Act :

...

“ House Master ” means any persons who is the chief possessor of a house , whether in the capacity of
owner , tenant , or in any other capacity whatsoever , in accordance with the law on people act.

...

Section 38 : The house – master , the owner or the possessor of the residence , or the hotel manager
where the alien , receiving permission to stay temporary in the Kingdom has stayed , must notify the
competent official of the Immigration Office located in the same area with that hours , dwelling place or
hotel, within 24 hours from the time of arrival of the alien concerned. If there is no Immigration Office
located in that area , the local police official for that area must be notified...

12

 

The condo, ie the Condominium Juristic Person Manager, has no legal obligation to make the TM.30 notification. If neither the House Master nor the owner of the residence, in your case the condominium apartment, makes the notification, the immigration office generally fines the House Master, ie the tenant, or in some cases, like for example in your case, refuses an extension of stay. It could be argued that the refusal of an extension of stay is an abuse of power on the part of the immigration official but this has apparently never been tested in court yet.

[elviajero]

1 hour ago, Maestro said:

From the  English translation of the Immigration Act made available on the website of the Immigration Bureau (highlighting in bold red is mine):
 

The condo, ie the Condominium Juristic Person Manager, has no legal obligation to make the TM.30 notification. If neither the House Master nor the owner of the residence, in your case the condominium apartment, makes the notification, the immigration office generally fines the House Master, ie the tenant, or in some cases, like for example in your case, refuses an extension of stay. It could be argued that the refusal of an extension of stay is an abuse of power on the part of the immigration official but this has apparently never been tested in court yet.

The foreign (extension applicant) tenant is only the house-master if named (rare) in the Tabian Baan as the house-master. However, as a tenant hey can be considered the possessor of the property and fined in place of the owner or house-master.

[geisha]

elviajero, sorry, we might not all be “typical tourists” but I use SETV s which are for 60 days, and I’m allowed to extend for another 30 days. I’m a tourist , spend a few months here legally and also do my reporting address myself at Jomtien, and my condo office also does it online on the day I arrive. I consider myself a typical tourist , what else could I be. Without the address reporting you don’t get an extension at Jomtien. They turn dozens of people away daily for not having that slip of paper. Unfortunately, lots of condos don’t play the game.

[jacko45k]

3 hours ago, geisha said:

Unfortunately, lots of condos don’t play the game.

Or more accurately the condo owners who rent out their condos!

But if a renter is coming and going a lot during their tenure I can understand why. Also there are a lot of condos being rented out shorter term, under a month, which is really an abuse of the terms. 

 

Edited April 7, 2019 by jacko45k

[CMNightRider]

5 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Or more accurately the condo owners who rent out their condos!

But if a renter is coming and going a lot during their tenure I can understand why. Also there are a lot of condos being rented out shorter term, under a month, which is really an abuse of the terms. 

 

This is just another reason the TM forms are idoitic ????

[elviajero]

8 hours ago, geisha said:

elviajero, sorry, we might not all be “typical tourists” but I use SETV s which are for 60 days, and I’m allowed to extend for another 30 days. I’m a tourist , spend a few months here legally and also do my reporting address myself at Jomtien, and my condo office also does it online on the day I arrive. I consider myself a typical tourist , what else could I be. Without the address reporting you don’t get an extension at Jomtien. They turn dozens of people away daily for not having that slip of paper. Unfortunately, lots of condos don’t play the game.

We are all visitors. You are visiting for tourism, but you’re clearly in a minority and not a ‘typical tourist’. As far as immigration are concerned a typical tourist visits for a short time on holiday, stays in a hotel/guesthouse, and goes home.

 

It is because more of us rent condos/apartments these days that immigration have clamped down on address reporting.

 

My point was that the system is not geared up for tourists renting condos. So a non-typical tourist needs to accommodate the system, and not the other way around. 

[ubonjoe]

A off topic inflammatory post has been removed.

[rembody]

will be staying in a condo in patts ,when the landlord does the tm 30 do i need something from the landlord to take to immigration or will it already be on a computer at the immigration office when i do my extension

Edited May 14, 2019 by rembody

[thaitero]

51 minutes ago, rembody said:

will be staying in a condo in patts ,when the landlord does the tm 30 do i need something from the landlord to take to immigration or will it already be on a computer at the immigration office when i do my extension

You should tell landlord that tm30 notification is needed to be sure..

If you do not ask, you do not know if this is taken care or not..

Sad to say but this is it is how it is now at the moment..

[edwardandtubs]

I extended a tourist visa at CW in April without any mention of TM30. I rented a condo through one of the big, reputable agents in Bangkok so perhaps they do the report to immigration as part of the service to the landlord. No one has ever mentioned it to me though.