Do you believe in God and why

[transam]

36 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

Finally a good question.

 

I guess it's because I'm a curious person, I want to know why I am the way I am. That includes my upbringing, my relationships to my parents, the psychological strategies I developed growing up, how all that influences me and my surrounding. 
The deeper you go, the more you find. And when you go deep enough, you'll see that we are not living in a bubble, cut off from the world, but we are all connected. Everything is connected.
Spirituality is just a word that describes this quest for knowledge. 
To find yourself is to find God.

To find YOURSELF is avoid being brainwashed by the brainwashed..

[Kwasaki]

2 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

Rubbish.  I was brought up as a Jehovah's Witness by my mother - and they don't believe in hell!

Rubbish all you like the young man was a Jehovah Witness and that is what he said. 

 

Jehovah's Witnesses teach that the present world order, which they perceive as being under the control of Satan.

 

Maybe he misinterpreted word Gehenna, the Bible word commonly translated as "hellfire", is said to describe a judgment of complete destruction.

[transam]

I must be odd to some here, but this is all I need......

 

 

[Lacessit]

2 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

Again, you mistake religion with spirituality. 
Science considered acupuncture as "gobbledey gook" for a long time, now it is taught to doctors all over the world and guess what...it works. But how? After all the whole acupuncture system is based on energy lines in our body that can't be seen or touched, yet have been mapped (without science) a long time before traditional science was even established. hmm
Of course religion has been proven wrong. You don't need to be a (rocket) scientist to understand that the world wasn't created in 7 days, do you?

 

Acupuncture has a scientific explanation. Hormones and enzymes are released from muscles which are punctured by the needles. Said compounds assist in alleviating pain and healing. Imaginary energy lines have nothing to do with it.

[Lacessit]

3 hours ago, Naam said:

"Plenty of bloodthirsty stuff in the Koran", most of it copied from the Bible (Old Testament).

If you go to the Apocrypha, which was deliberately omitted from the Old Testament, even more so. However, I don't understand what your point is, unless you are saying the Jews started it all.

[mauGR1]

double post

Edited April 19, 2019 by mauGR1
double post

[transam]

2 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

No way i want convince you of anything, but good and bad ( or the dual judgement) are nothing else than  "tools of knowledge" in this specific reality ; you cannot have the day without the night and so on.

I'm told that there are ways to reach more evolved realities, but then, you'll have to "open the door" by yourself.

 

Open the door to what.....Or even how.....Smoke a few joints......Listen to a bloke who had a vision in his sleep......Tell us how you opened your door...

[mauGR1]

1 hour ago, transam said:

Of what...?

.. of the importance of knowing oneself.

[mauGR1]

1 minute ago, transam said:

Open the door to what.....Or even how.....Smoke a few joints......Listen to a bloke who had a vision in his sleep......Tell us how you opened your door...

Why on earth should i bother, i can explain to you but i can't understand it for you.

 

[transam]

1 minute ago, mauGR1 said:

.. of the importance of knowing oneself.

I would of thought you know who you are, Priests that have "fooled" around know exactly who they are but are in the high ranking religious fold....

 

Do you have an explanation for that...?

[transam]

1 minute ago, mauGR1 said:

Why on earth should i bother, i can explain to you but i can't understand it for you.

 

Jehovah Witness folk bother, they have to "bother", go for it...

 

PS.I have told JW in a nice way to bugger off...????

[mauGR1]

1 minute ago, transam said:

I would of thought you know who you are, Priests that have "fooled" around know exactly who they are but are in the high ranking religious fold....

 

Do you have an explanation for that...?

When the time is right, you'll understand, until then, enjoy your life

[mauGR1]

1 minute ago, transam said:

Jehovah Witness folk bother, they have to "bother", go for it...

 

PS.I have told JW in a nice way to bugger off...????

at least we agree on something, i've developed a few nice ways to say "bugger off"

[Sunmaster]

23 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Acupuncture has a scientific explanation. Hormones and enzymes are released from muscles which are punctured by the needles. Said compounds assist in alleviating pain and healing. Imaginary energy lines have nothing to do with it.

Wrong

 

Acupuncture is based upon the Eastern philosophy of chi (also spelled qi), which is the Chinese term for the supposed life force or vital energy that animates living things. In Traditional Chinese Medicine (TCM) chi flows through pathways in the body known as meridians.

Acupuncture – Science-Based Medicine

 

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/reference/acupuncture/

[Kwasaki]

1 hour ago, mauGR1 said:

"tools of knowledge" in this specific reality ; you cannot have the day without the night and so on.

People in Iceland would beg to differ. ????

[Lacessit]

1 minute ago, Sunmaster said:

Wrong

 

Acupuncture is based upon the Eastern philosophy of chi (also spelled qi), which is the Chinese term for the supposed life force or vital energy that animates living things. In Traditional Chinese Medicine (TCM) chi flows through pathways in the body known as meridians.

Acupuncture – Science-Based Medicine

 

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/reference/acupuncture/

In other words,you are saying I am wrong because that is what you believe. Interesting you use the adjective "supposed". I am saying you are wrong because science has demonstrated the release of compounds, has measured them, and replicated healing effects of said compounds by using them independently of the acupuncture process. It's called the scientific method. Proof consists of repeating an experiment successfully.

A microcosm of the battle science has to endure with religions. It wasn't so long ago the teaching of evolution was banned in religiously conservative US states. Today, the battleground is climate change.

[Sunmaster]

[Sunmaster]

No, you said it has nothing to do with energy, that's where you are wrong.

The people who founded acupuncture claimed otherwise. They didn't know anything about hormones and compounds. How did they discover the meridians in your opinion?
Science now gives another explanation, also valid, but that doesn't exclude the notion of energy. 

Edited April 19, 2019 by Sunmaster

[transam]

10 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

You are a Horse...?  ????

[evadgib]

This interview by 'Tarka the Otter' author Henry Williamson re the WW1 Christmas truce should interest this board;

 

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, Sunmaster said:

No, you said it has nothing to do with energy, that's where you are wrong.

The people who founded acupuncture claimed otherwise. They didn't know anything about hormones and compounds. How did they discover the meridians in your opinion?
Science now gives another explanation, also valid, but that doesn't exclude the notion of energy. 

 

Acupuncture was probably discovered by the same process as many other advances - by trial and error. The theory of the time to explain the beneficial effects was energy meridians.

It's not a matter of "also valid". It's a matter of the belief of the original acupuncturists vs what actually happens, explained by science. Examples of spurious causation go back to the Oldenburg storks and beyond.

[Skeptic7]

4 hours ago, yodsak said:

Quite right. And almost always...perhaps every time...when a person has a revelation or a vision, it is the deity they were indoctrinated with. A Christian sees and/or hears Jesus. A Muslim sees or hears Allah and/or Muhammad. A Hindu...Vishnu, Krishna and/or Ganesha.

 

Don't hear of any cases where a Christian has a revelation and says...WOW, HAD IT WRONG ALL THIS TIME! THE REAL TRUTH IS ISLAM and the Holy Koran or HINDUISM and The Vedas and then converted.  Nor the Muslim turning to Christianity or Hinduism. Nor the Hindu changing sides. It always seems to be their own flavor of superstition. 

[jak2002003]

'Do you believe in god and why''?

 

Which god out of the estimated 4,200 religions?

 

1.  Zeus, the most powerful of the gods according to the Ancient Greeks, 
2. Helios or in any of the other gods, goddesses, spirits of the Greco-Roman pantheon.
3. Odin the most powerful god for the Nordic religion
4. Thor of the mighty hammer.
5. Celtic gods and goddesses who required human sacrifice.
6. Aztec and other South American gods/goddesses who also required human sacrifice.

Those are just a small sample of gods and goddesses us Atheists don't believe in.  

[GarryP]

Just now, jak2002003 said:

'Do you believe in god and why''?

 

Which god out of the estimated 4,200 religions?

 

1.  Zeus, the most powerful of the gods according to the Ancient Greeks, 
2. Helios or in any of the other gods, goddesses, spirits of the Greco-Roman pantheon.
3. Odin the most powerful god for the Nordic religion
4. Thor of the mighty hammer.
5. Celtic gods and goddesses who required human sacrifice.
6. Aztec and other South American gods/goddesses who also required human sacrifice.

Those are just a small sample of gods and goddesses us Atheists don't believe in.  

You missed the most important one: MONEY

[Sunmaster]

2 hours ago, Skeptic7 said:

Quite right. And almost always...perhaps every time...when a person has a revelation or a vision, it is the deity they were indoctrinated with. A Christian sees and/or hears Jesus. A Muslim sees or hears Allah and/or Muhammad. A Hindu...Vishnu, Krishna and/or Ganesha.

 

Don't hear of any cases where a Christian has a revelation and says...WOW, HAD IT WRONG ALL THIS TIME! THE REAL TRUTH IS ISLAM and the Holy Koran or HINDUISM and The Vedas and then converted.  Nor the Muslim turning to Christianity or Hinduism. Nor the Hindu changing sides. It always seems to be their own flavor of superstition. 

 

When you want to explain something to your child, do you use a language it can understand and use words/images it can relate to, or do you speak in a foreign language using complicated jargon words?
The same applies when Spirit reveals itself to you in form of a vision. 

Edited April 19, 2019 by Sunmaster

[Date Masamune]

Quite right. And almost always...perhaps every time...when a person has a revelation or a vision, it is the deity they were indoctrinated with. A Christian sees and/or hears Jesus. A Muslim sees or hears Allah and/or Muhammad. A Hindu...Vishnu, Krishna and/or Ganesha.
 
Don't hear of any cases where a Christian has a revelation and says...WOW, HAD IT WRONG ALL THIS TIME! THE REAL TRUTH IS ISLAM and the Holy Koran or HINDUISM and The Vedas and then converted.  Nor the Muslim turning to Christianity or Hinduism. Nor the Hindu changing sides. It always seems to be their own flavor of superstition. 

“Cat Stevens” who claimed a neath death experience in the Malibu surf? Every decent thing about religion such charity and social work etc is indistinguishable form secular humanism. God exists in the human mind where it was created. Most people who hear voices and have visions would be diagnosed as ill by a Psychiatrist, but this delusion is almost a pre-requisite for inclusion in public life in America and many other countries. That is the silliest thing about it.

[Lacessit]

2 hours ago, Skeptic7 said:

 

 

Don't hear of any cases where a Christian has a revelation and says...WOW, HAD IT WRONG ALL THIS TIME! THE REAL TRUTH IS ISLAM and the Holy Koran or HINDUISM and The Vedas and then converted.  Nor the Muslim turning to Christianity or Hinduism. Nor the Hindu changing sides. It always seems to be their own flavor of superstition. 

The chances of a Muslim turning to another form of religion is quite low, because apostasy is dealt with in many Muslim countries under criminal law, ranging in penalties up to the death sentence in more conservative nations. I'm not aware of any other religion that penalises conversion to another religion.

[notmyself]

1 minute ago, Lacessit said:

The chances of a Muslim turning to another form of religion is quite low, because apostasy is dealt with in many Muslim countries under criminal law, ranging in penalties up to the death sentence in more conservative nations. I'm not aware of any other religion that penalises conversion to another religion.

 

Scientology?

 

 

[Lacessit]

3 minutes ago, notmyself said:

 

Scientology?

 

 

If you want to count that as a religion, yes. I call it a haven for fruitcakes. Although I doubt Scientologists would be able to get apostasy into any criminal codes on their behalf.

Edited April 19, 2019 by Lacessit

[Date Masamune]

The chances of a Muslim turning to another form of religion is quite low, because apostasy is dealt with in many Muslim countries under criminal law, ranging in penalties up to the death sentence in more conservative nations. I'm not aware of any other religion that penalises conversion to another religion.

The Jews, Amish, Mormons, Catholics, and even Muslims in my country etc., can shun excommunicate and banish (other than the honor killings of the religion of peace) but cannot deprive your freedom or impose any legal penalty. Freedom of religion = freedom from religion too.