Do you believe in God and why

[Hummin]

2 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

There's common sense in what you say, although there are dozens of hairs to split. 

I'd like to say clear though,  that when i say " religion", i mean the best part of it, which some call

" spirituality " , and in other words is the relentless search for what is truly good and true, for oneself and for all inhabitants of this planet.

( inhabitants of other planets, for the moment, will have to help themselves)

It's obvious though that " religion " has another meaning to you. Yes, some aspects of organized religion hopefully will soon disappear. 

Perhaps religion has a different meaning for every single person, even if now it's trendy to label it " rubbish " without a 2nd thought. 

So we can possibly agree that language is evolving, words change their meaning, and it's very easy to get confused.

 

 

 

 

The main good and evil with religion, is the structure and moral it comes with, that people need in their daily lives to function,  and also gives a hope there is a meaning and  for something in the end that is not just The End, but a new beginning. 

 

I feel maybe spirituality threatening religion on those two important things, when it comes to participate in a complexed society where we need everyone, or most people to contribute for everyone's best, not only themselves. 

 

Spiritually is egoism, but for some people thats the one way to function and survive in a dysfunctional world we live in, as many of us sees it.

 

Im glad in the sunmasters previous video described the awakening as an psychiatric episode, and I believe many is confused what they really experienced and often mistake one for the other. 

 

Religious no matter what they believe have the same experiences that connects them to what they finely will believe.

 

The answer is in your brain and how you choose to form your thoughts and how you choose to cultivate your thoughts.

 

It is like going to gym, you train hard enough, do the right things, you grow. You add steriods you grow more, but thats when it can go wrong.

 

There will always be a crosspoint where it is going from healthy to unhealthy 

 

 

 

 

[mauGR1]

8 minutes ago, Hummin said:

There will always be a crosspoint where it is going from healthy to unhealthy 

 

You make many good points, and every one of them would deserve a fine discussion. 

But i whole-heartedly agree on this final statement. 

That's why i think that it's fair to have high ideals, but we should avoid to become fanatics. 

[Fat is a type of crazy]

8 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

Here is a very good video explaining what Kundalini is and how it works.
I'm still hoping for a more scientific explanation from our materialistic friends here, but they have all gone quiet.

PS: Dismissing it as a fantasy is not going to make you look smart.

 

It's hard to know how to approach this. If someone says they experienced this thing, and they can show others experienced a similar experience, then the happening may require a look.

Of course, the feeling of something bigger than ourself could be a connection to the other, or a connection within oneself. Based on available information I would say the latter is likely and nothing here provides proof of a spiritual world at all, except the subjective sense or feeling, which is not nothing. 

If some advanced beneficiaries have psychic powers, genius, greatness in different forms of art, resulting from this, there must be examples of it's exponents showing such new powers that they did not have before. Psychic powers are of course purely theoretical. One might say an exponent would not advertise the fact, let alone bring themselves fame, as they are above that but it does not help that proof is lacking. 

I am not in a position to, or do I desire to, dismiss this. 

 

[Sunmaster]

2 hours ago, Hummin said:

Im glad in the sunmasters previous video described the awakening as an psychiatric episode, and I believe many is confused what they really experienced and often mistake one for the other. 

Thank you for your post.
I only want to point out that the video doesn't describe "the awakening as a psychiatric episode", but pointed out that such an awakening has, on the surface, many similarities to a psychiatric episode. It can be (and almost surely has been) mistaken as a psychiatric episode and unfortunately "treated" with psychopharmaceuticals. 
This is not to say that we should treat all psy episodes as kundalini awakenings, but neither should all kundalini awakenings be treated as psy episodes.

[Sunmaster]

56 minutes ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

It's hard to know how to approach this. If someone says they experienced this thing, and they can show others experienced a similar experience, then the happening may require a look.

Of course, the feeling of something bigger than ourself could be a connection to the other, or a connection within oneself. Based on available information I would say the latter is likely and nothing here provides proof of a spiritual world at all, except the subjective sense or feeling, which is not nothing. 

If some advanced beneficiaries have psychic powers, genius, greatness in different forms of art, resulting from this, there must be examples of it's exponents showing such new powers that they did not have before. Psychic powers are of course purely theoretical. One might say an exponent would not advertise the fact, let alone bring themselves fame, as they are above that but it does not help that proof is lacking. 

I am not in a position to, or do I desire to, dismiss this. 

 

Yes, it's definitely hard to know how to approach this from the outside. Even if you approach this from the inside (experience it yourself), it's hard.
The connection is indeed to yourself, and through that to all other beings.
The experience itself is no objective proof, but it is all the proof I ever needed. While it won't be enough to qualify as watertight scientific proof, it is in my opinion empirical and anecdotal evidence that should not be discounted.

 

As for special powers, I can't say I have any. Besides, I doubt I would tell you even if I had any. ???? 

The greatest and long-lasting gifts I received from it was the loss of fear of death and an unconditional trust in a benevolent Source. These 2 alone completely changed my life for the better and I wouldn't trade them for any fancy powers.

 

[Sunmaster]

3 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

There's common sense in what you say, although there are dozens of hairs to split. 

I'd like to say clear though,  that when i say " religion", i mean the best part of it, which some call

" spirituality " , and in other words is the relentless search for what is truly good and true, for oneself and for all inhabitants of this planet.

( inhabitants of other planets, for the moment, will have to help themselves)

It's obvious though that " religion " has another meaning to you. Yes, some aspects of organized religion hopefully will soon disappear. 

Perhaps religion has a different meaning for every single person, even if now it's trendy to label it " rubbish " without a 2nd thought. 

So we can possibly agree that language is evolving, words change their meaning, and it's very easy to get confused.

 

 

 

 

Perhaps I'm a bit biased, but I do try to be as objective as possible.

Religions were formed to give stability and order to societies that were "out of order" and allowed them to make great steps forward in their development. Likewise, on a personal psychological level, many people still need such organizations to bring order in their lives, and there is nothing wrong with that.

However, western societies have evolved from that stage and to impose such rigid structures upon them at their current level of development, represents in my view an obstacle. People themselves feel it as an obstacle, hence the rapid decline in membership. Nothing wrong with that either.

The problem arises when you strip society of religion altogether and don't replace it with something more mature and adequate. A spiritual science perhaps, or scientific spirituality maybe? 

[Hummin]

44 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

Thank you for your post.
I only want to point out that the video doesn't describe "the awakening as a psychiatric episode", but pointed out that such an awakening has, on the surface, many similarities to a psychiatric episode. It can be (and almost surely has been) mistaken as a psychiatric episode and unfortunately "treated" with psychopharmaceuticals. 
This is not to say that we should treat all psy episodes as kundalini awakenings, but neither should all kundalini awakenings be treated as psy episodes.

Indeed, also my short stand and understanding of such episodes. 

 

Many (no data available, so just personal observation and experience) have experienced awakening after or during life crises, also in combination with experienced guidance, but my experience was after a few more or less long periods with depression and retraction from society. Those periods I worked and lived partly quite remote, and had alot of time outdoors when I finely managed to get out of the most severe depression, reaching new life, new motivation, new understanding and with great energy managed to puzzle life back on track. 

 

I can with certain strong convince say, it was release of natural chemicals in my brain and great experiences observing nature around me as well people and animals, not to mention the connection it gave me. 

 

I choosed not to dig deeper when I finely was satisfied and could return to who I believe is me, and how I look outwards as my actions to survive and keep my sanity in this world in the reality we experience. 

 

Meaning be true to our Nature as much we can, even we constantly is challenged be it treat and trait, also consequences for not succeed in the set norms of society. 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 3, 2023 by Hummin

[mauGR1]

6 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

The problem arises when you strip society of religion altogether and don't replace it with something more mature and adequate. A spiritual science perhaps, or scientific spirituality maybe ?

That's it.

The way i see it, most people nowadays are falling into the abyss of materialism, but I'd guess this is another necessary step of spiritual development, and yes, eventually the apparently conflicting science and spirituality may become one.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 4/3/2023 at 8:10 PM, mauGR1 said:

You make many good points, and every one of them would deserve a fine discussion. 

But i whole-heartedly agree on this final statement. 

That's why i think that it's fair to have high ideals, but we should avoid to become fanatics. 

I agree that fanaticism is a bad thing, and can hand on heart say I've never been fanatical about anything, though some might say I'm fanatically cynical ( Best way of surviving life I've heard of is to treat everything as BS till proven otherwise- had I learned that at the age of 18 I'd have had a much better life, but I digress ).

[thaibeachlovers]

On 4/3/2023 at 11:00 PM, Sunmaster said:

The problem arises when you strip society of religion altogether and don't replace it with something more mature and adequate. A spiritual science perhaps, or scientific spirituality maybe? 

IMO we passed that point long ago and replaced it with love of money/ materialism/ celebrity and BS.

Humanity is becoming, IMO, a ship without a rudder, going this way and that way, depending on the latest fad, whether it's about man made climate change, or multiple genders, or some as yet unknown fad.

[mauGR1]

20 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Best way of surviving life I've heard of is to treat everything as BS till proven otherwise- had I learned that at the age of 18 I'd have had a much better life, but I digress ).

Imho, positive and negative experiences can both be good masters. 

There's something good in getting old too, despite the appearances, imho.

[Sunmaster]

21 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

IMO we passed that point long ago and replaced it with love of money/ materialism/ celebrity and BS.

Humanity is becoming, IMO, a ship without a rudder, going this way and that way, depending on the latest fad, whether it's about man made climate change, or multiple genders, or some as yet unknown fad.

Yes, this process has started quite a few decades ago.
I like to compare the current social development to the development we all go through when we grow up. Up to let's say 13-14 we still heavily rely on our parents and tend to follow their rules, which are designed to help us and keep us save. But then a new phase kicks in and we reject the rules of our parents, because they feel restrictive. We then start to explore the world on our terms. This phase is very important in our development. It's like flexing our muscles, testing boundaries of what is possible and what not, gaining confidence in our own capacities. Of course, we all know that we make a lot of mistakes during this time, but they are all necessary and part of the process.
Once we go through this phase, we come out on the other end more mature, more responsible, with a new, more comprehensive worldview and better understanding of who we are, ideally speaking.

Right now we are in the same situation as a society. We freed ourselves from the restrictive shackles of the previous generations and explore the world on our terms. Chaos and confusion seem rampant with nothing solid to hold on. Lots of crazy stuff emerges, like you mentioned.
In the end it's just a part of the learning process and will eventually take us to a new level of understanding. So, don't lose hope and be patient.

It will take time, but I'm optimistic. ????

[thaibeachlovers]

On 4/5/2023 at 2:58 PM, Sunmaster said:

Up to let's say 13-14 we still heavily rely on our parents and tend to follow their rules, which are designed to help us and keep us save.

My parents sent me to boarding school from 10 years old, so my values came from the boarding school, not my parents. Looking back I may have got the better deal.

I was lucky in that the boarding school I went to till 13 years old was a pleasant one for the most part, though the boarding college I went to had institutional bullying, so unfortunate to suffer 4 years of fear.

Perhaps that is where my cynicism was created.

Both were religious institutions, but I wasn't religious when I finally left- shiny baubles of no substance and all that. They talked the talk, but failed on the walk.

 

PS. the college was good training for the military- felt about the same, though there was less bullying in the military.

Edited April 8, 2023 by thaibeachlovers

[Acharn]

On 3/25/2023 at 6:00 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

and they KNOW that how? They don't even agree how the universe came to be.

I saw an astronomer on Al Jazeera saying that they don't know more than 10% of what is out there.

 

If you are right, the planet better get on with finding a better guest than humanity, which is busily soiling the nest.

Well, just so. They don't KNOW that. It's a hypothesis, which means it's the best story they can make up from the facts they know and other hypotheses they have.

Back in the '50s there was discussion among science fiction fans about why aliens have never (as far as we know) visited us. Any intelligent entity will have evolved from a predatory animal. Therefore they will have aggressive instincts. Therefore, when they have evolved far enough to develop nuclear weapons they will eventually end up destroying themselves. I'm 85 years old, and not at all sure I won't live to see the nuclear winter that ends 95% of life on Earth.

[Acharn]

On 3/25/2023 at 6:18 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

Which goes to show he didn't know everything, and to believe that suffering could be extinguished has to be a bit weird, IMO. Jesus said "the poor are always with us" and he could have added suffering to that- it's in human nature to suffer, even after 50,000 years of existence during which we seem to have advanced mentally not a whit from our cavemen ancestors. Still killing each other over BS.

Well, he didn't say he didn't know the answer, he explained that the questioners didn't know what to ask and would not understand his answers. His basic assumption was that life is cyclical. Birth --> Sickness --> Old Age --> Death --> Birth ..., without end unless you practice the Eightfold Path, which leads to the ending of Birth, which is the end of suffering. By the way, Suffering includes not getting what you want and getting what you don't want, as well as any minor disappointment.

[mauGR1]

11 hours ago, Acharn said:

Any intelligent entity will have evolved from a predatory animal. 

Really?

According to this reasoning, non-predatory animals would be extinct. 

 

[Red Phoenix]

Dark Versus Light  - The battle within our minds

https://nicholascreed.substack.com/p/light-versus-dark?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email

 

A beautiful, very personal and worthwhile reflection on the benefits of meditation.  Article written by Nicholas Creed who describes himself as a Bangkok-based journalistic dissident, and who only recently found out how meditation helped him to regain mental control in these trying times that can easily lead to despair.

His free Substack Creed Speech is worth subscribing to and highly recommended.

 

[Sunmaster]

Spirituality is not about how many books you've read, how many quotes of your favourite teacher you've learned, not even how many amazing experiences you had....it's much simpler and more direct than that.
Practice, practice, practice....without a goal, every day.

[Red Phoenix]

49 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

Dark Versus Light  - The battle within our minds

https://nicholascreed.substack.com/p/light-versus-dark?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email

 

A beautiful, very personal and worthwhile reflection on the benefits of meditation.  Article written by Nicholas Creed who describes himself as a Bangkok-based journalistic dissident, and who only recently found out how meditation helped him to regain mental control in these trying times that can easily lead to despair.

His free Substack Creed Speech is worth subscribing to and highly recommended.

 

Wow, the 9-minute 'song' by REN featured at the end of the article is nothing less than an emotional sledgehammer.  Never did I came across a piece that describes the fights in your soul between dark and light, as vividly as in this song (more a parlando on music). 

A true masterpiece, if you can bear it.

I am still shaking after hearing it...

 

 

Edited April 10, 2023 by Red Phoenix

[VincentRJ]

3 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

"Any intelligent entity will have evolved from a predatory animal."

 

Really?

According to this reasoning, non-predatory animals would be extinct. 

 

That's an interesting concept. If one uses the broad definition of 'predatory', which includes "seeking to exploit others', then it would be difficult, and perhaps impossible, to discover any form of life which is not predatory.

 

For example, vegetarians might feel good because they don't rely upon the killing of other animals for their survival. However, they do rely upon the killing of plants, and the plants rely upon trillions of predatory microbes, ants, worms, fungi, and so on, in the soil, which provide the necessary nutrients in the soil, for the plants to grow.

 

Some plants are directly predatory. Consider the following link:
https://www.bbcearth.com/news/10-of-the-planets-most-predatory-plants

 

Also, many species of fungi, are predaceous. Fungi perform important functions within the soil in relation to nutrient cycling, disease suppression and water dynamics, all of which help plants become healthier and more vigorous. Along with bacteria, fungi are important decomposers of hard to digest organic matter.

 

From the following wiki link:
"Carnivorous fungi or predaceous fungi are fungi that derive some or most of their nutrients from trapping and eating microscopic or other minute animals. More than 200 species have been described, belonging to the phyla Ascomycota, Mucoromycotina, and Basidiomycota. They usually live in soil and many species trap or stun nematodes, while others attack amoebae or collembola."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnivorous_fungus

 

In summary, most people who eat fish and meat, do not kill the animals themselves, but rely upon others to do the killing. Likewise, whilst most plants are not directly predatory, they all rely upon massive numbers of predatory 'soil animals' to provide the essential nutrient for them to survive and flourish.

 

[mauGR1]

16 minutes ago, VincentRJ said:

That's an interesting concept. If one uses the broad definition of 'predatory', which includes "seeking to exploit others', then it would be difficult, and perhaps impossible, to discover any form of life which is not predatory.

 

For example, vegetarians might feel good because they don't rely upon the killing of other animals for their survival. However, they do rely upon the killing of plants, and the plants rely upon trillions of predatory microbes, ants, worms, fungi, and so on, in the soil, which provide the necessary nutrients in the soil, for the plants to grow.

 

 

Some carnivores feel good thinking that vegetarians kill plants, but there's some difference between killing plants or killing animals. 

My point was, however,  that non-predatory animals can survive predatory animals, and thus being predatory is not a pre- requisite to survival. 

[VincentRJ]

7 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Some carnivores feel good thinking that vegetarians kill plants, but there's some difference between killing plants or killing animals. 

My point was, however,  that non-predatory animals can survive predatory animals, and thus being predatory is not a pre- requisite to survival. 

And my point was that no life-form can exist in a non-predatory environment, as far as I understand.

Every life-form is either directly predatory, or indirectly predatory in the sense they rely upon others (whether microbes, insects, animals, or humans) to do the killing on their behalf.

[mauGR1]

5 minutes ago, VincentRJ said:

And my point was that no life-form can exist in a non-predatory environment, as far as I understand.

Every life-form is either directly predatory, or indirectly predatory in the sense they rely upon others (whether microbes, insects, animals, or humans) to do the killing on their behalf.

Well, that would be quite a broad definition of predatory. 

I never heard a cow, a horse, an elephant being described as predatory animals.

And it's the first time i think of a plant as a prey ???? but sorry, i can think of a plant, or a fruit, as food, but not as a prey.

Relying on favorable conditions in order to survive is not the same as being predatory .

[VincentRJ]

9 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

Well, that would be quite a broad definition of predatory. 

I never heard a cow, a horse, an elephant being described as predatory animals.

And it's the first time i think of a plant as a prey ???? but sorry, i can think of a plant, or a fruit, as food, but not as a prey.

Relying on favorable conditions in order to survive is not the same as being predatory .

You seem to have missed the point I've been making. When talking about predatory animals we tend to think only of carnivores such as Lions, Tigers, Snakes, and so on. These are animals that are far more developed than insects, ants, microbes and bacteria, and are far more visible to us humans, so we tend to ignore the incessant predation that occurs amongst the tiny and microscopic creatures whose existence is essential for our survival.

 

All favourable conditions are favourable because the good guys eat the bad guys. Any animal or human can only be in good health as a result of the good bacteria in the biome killing and/or eating the bad bacteria, and the immune system killing, and/or eating harmful germs and viruses.
The following article describes the situation.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/10/061002214703.htm#:~:text=CD8%2B T-cells are specialized,as viruses in the body

 

"CD8+ T-cells are specialized white blood cells that serve an important role in the body's immune system. The cells attack and destroy disease "invaders" such as viruses in the body."

 

"If you use a fluorescent dye to stain infected cells, you can literally watch T-cells consume membranes and outer surfaces of diseased cells."

 

"While we don't fully understand why this happens, one possibility is that the T-cell consumes virus-infected cells to fuel itself in the continued fight against an ongoing infection." 

 

"Further investigation revealed that the CD8+ T-cells, often referred to as "killer" T-cells, were literally ingesting parts of the virus-infected cells that they were attacking."

[mauGR1]

9 hours ago, VincentRJ said:

You seem to have missed the point I've been making. When talking about predatory animals we tend to think only of carnivores such as Lions, Tigers, Snakes, and so on. These are animals that are far more developed than insects, ants, microbes and bacteria, and are far more visible to us humans, so we tend to ignore the incessant predation that occurs amongst the tiny and microscopic creatures whose existence is essential for our survival.

 

All favourable conditions are favourable because the good guys eat the bad guys. Any animal or human can only be in good health as a result of the good bacteria in the biome killing and/or eating the bad bacteria, and the immune system killing, and/or eating harmful germs ...

I've got your point actually, and it's impossible not to agree. 

"Every form of life happens to destroy other forms of life" , I'm ok with that.

I was just trying to make sense of the hypothetical patterns which permeate borh the big and the small picture (microcosm and macrocosm).

In fact, the post which i was replying to, was talking about hypothetical alien forms of life, which were supposed to be more developed thanks to being "more predatory "..

Perhaps we can agree on saying that the definition of " predatory " is arbitrary. 

 

[save the frogs]

22 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

Practice, practice, practice....without a goal, every day.

why would anyone want to waste their time doing sth that has no goal? 

[Sunmaster]

55 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

why would anyone want to waste their time doing sth that has no goal? 

Because having a goal, a result projected some time in the future, an expectation of reward for the work we do right now....is all a construct of the mind and is there to satisfy the ego. And feeding the ego is exactly what we want to avoid.
"I meditate because I want to be enlightened." => The ego desires being enlightened, and since enlightenment is what emerges once we stop identifying with the ego, it therefore prevents that very thing from happening. 

So, practice, practice, practice....without the hope for a reward, without the desire to become something else, without a goal.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 4/10/2023 at 12:06 AM, Acharn said:

Well, he didn't say he didn't know the answer, he explained that the questioners didn't know what to ask and would not understand his answers. His basic assumption was that life is cyclical. Birth --> Sickness --> Old Age --> Death --> Birth ..., without end unless you practice the Eightfold Path, which leads to the ending of Birth, which is the end of suffering. By the way, Suffering includes not getting what you want and getting what you don't want, as well as any minor disappointment.

The basic assumption is why I don't believe in his teachings.

[Hummin]

5 hours ago, save the frogs said:

why would anyone want to waste their time doing sth that has no goal? 

Because you need something to get a grip on, and a change in life, and most likely it stimulate you as well give you focus and energy in the process searching and as well evolving.

 

Most people is happy to open a beer to feel complete, others need something more ????

[thaibeachlovers]

On 4/10/2023 at 3:52 PM, mauGR1 said:

Some carnivores feel good thinking that vegetarians kill plants, but there's some difference between killing plants or killing animals. 

My point was, however,  that non-predatory animals can survive predatory animals, and thus being predatory is not a pre- requisite to survival. 

Having been acquainted with farm animals for many years ( most of my life ) I defy anyone to claim that a sheep or a cow could be or become intelligent.

 

It's irrelevant anyway, as our bodies are animal and designed as multivores. If we were not supposed to eat meat, we would not have canines.

 

Jesus, and he should know, had no problem with eating meat or fish etc that we know of.