Do you believe in God and why

[thaibeachlovers]

  On 8/21/2023 at 4:42 PM, Hummin said:

1 Good is everything! 

 

2 No human alive knows I say, but many claim they know! I would say the rule and law of Nature is the closest we get to that answer! And we are in the middle of it as it evolves day by day, hour for hour, minute, ,,,,,,, ,,,,,, ,,,

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Do you reject the idea that Nature ( Gaia ) is ( or is a part of ) God?

[thaibeachlovers]

  On 8/21/2023 at 2:09 PM, scottiejohn said:

So it is a pointless thread then!

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If it were pointless why does it have more pages than any other thread?

If it were pointless why did you post on it?

How many pages did you read before coming to that conclusion?

Is it more pointless than a thread that asks if Thai women reach orgasm faster than other women?

Does it have to have a point?

Do you have an opinion on the OP, or just come on because you like posting pointless posts?

[thaibeachlovers]

  On 8/21/2023 at 1:19 PM, save the frogs said:

the length of this thread appears to be a drawback.

new folks coming in curious about the topic will not want to sift through 600 pages. 

 

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That doesn't stop them answering the OP, rather than making fatuous comments.

[save the frogs]

  On 8/21/2023 at 11:06 PM, thaibeachlovers said:

Does it have to have a point?

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no, not everything needs to have a point. good point. 

[ravip]

  On 8/21/2023 at 10:31 AM, Sunmaster said:

Just a quick hello to all atheists, materialists, believers and knowers.

Here are 3 drawings I made in the last few months.

 

Take care ????

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The drawings look quite complicated  - but what has it got to do with atheists? 

[thaibeachlovers]

  On 8/21/2023 at 11:35 PM, ravip said:

The drawings look quite complicated  - but what has it got to do with atheists? 

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Lot of professed atheists on this thread.

[scottiejohn]

  On 8/21/2023 at 11:06 PM, thaibeachlovers said:

why does it have more pages than any other thread?

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It does not have more pages than any other thread and quantity does not equate to quality!

[thaibeachlovers]

  On 8/22/2023 at 12:38 AM, scottiejohn said:

It does not have more pages than any other thread and quantity does not equate to quality!

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Name any other thread with more or equal number of pages then.

 

Did I say anything about quality? YAWN.

[Hummin]

  On 8/21/2023 at 11:01 PM, thaibeachlovers said:

Do you reject the idea that Nature ( Gaia ) is ( or is a part of ) God?

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I reject nothing, and I believe I have said Nature is the one and only reasonable explanation who God is in this thread many times.

 

 

[Red Phoenix]

  On 8/21/2023 at 11:35 PM, ravip said:

The drawings look quite complicated  - but what has it got to do with atheists? 

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@Sunmaster wrote: Just a quick hello to all atheists, materialists, believers and knowers.

> After 7 weeks without any posts on the thread, Sunmaster - who is the Godfather of this thread - got it moving again. 

And he greeted the 4 categories of posters that have made this thread an interesting and lively discussion Forum. 

[Sunmaster]

  On 8/21/2023 at 12:03 PM, scottiejohn said:

PS;  I only ask as the number of replies really grabbed my attention!

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Out of curiosity, which posts grabbed your attention? What was the topic?

[save the frogs]

andrew huberman is a scientist (neuroscientist at stanford) and admits that he meditates and prays and believes in god. also, he said the head of neuroscience at stanford also did. 

 

he says "if we don't believe in something bigger than ourselves, we at some level will self-destruct."

 

 

[save the frogs]

cool short film ... check it out. 

 

 

[Hummin]

Thank you all for your contributions, I'm out of here (closing my account). Definitely the most interesting tread on the fora, even thousands of not so interesting bickering posts, there is gold here for those who want to find and have patience to look for it. Maybe not in a religious way, but the way of thinking, inspiration to read, search and understand what other people feel and think about an endless theme like religion and spirituality. Or just comfortable to not believe in anything, and manage to put words to a non beliefe. 

 

Have a great life and for those who believe, a great afterlife when that time arrives.

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

  On 9/28/2023 at 4:46 AM, Hummin said:

Thank you all for your contributions, I'm out of here (closing my account). Definitely the most interesting tread on the fora, even thousands of not so interesting bickering posts, there is gold here for those who want to find and have patience to look for it. Maybe not in a religious way, but the way of thinking, inspiration to read, search and understand what other people feel and think about an endless theme like religion and spirituality. Or just comfortable to not believe in anything, and manage to put words to a non beliefe. 

 

Have a great life and for those who believe, a great afterlife when that time arrives.

 

 

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Farewell and God speed. Good luck in your travels.

This thread was indeed a great ride while it lasted and was even revived from the dead for a while, but without posters willing to discuss without the bickering and stupid posts it was never going to last.

596 pages has to be a forum record.

Like always though, good things end.

 

While I haven't posted on here in a long time, this is making me a bit melancholy, as I did spend many hours on it and I learned a lot.

 

Sayonara, adios, sawatdee and goodbye.

 

 

[Sunmaster]

  On 9/28/2023 at 4:46 AM, Hummin said:

Thank you all for your contributions, I'm out of here (closing my account). Definitely the most interesting tread on the fora, even thousands of not so interesting bickering posts, there is gold here for those who want to find and have patience to look for it. Maybe not in a religious way, but the way of thinking, inspiration to read, search and understand what other people feel and think about an endless theme like religion and spirituality. Or just comfortable to not believe in anything, and manage to put words to a non beliefe. 

 

Have a great life and for those who believe, a great afterlife when that time arrives.

 

 

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All the best Hummin! 

[Sunmaster]

[Red Phoenix]

Welcome back SunMaster! 

We mssed your always insightful posts and comments. 

[Sunmaster]

  On 11/25/2023 at 11:07 AM, Red Phoenix said:

Welcome back SunMaster! 

We mssed your always insightful posts and comments. 

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Thank you, appreciate it.

How have you been?

 

[Red Phoenix]

  On 11/25/2023 at 1:37 PM, Sunmaster said:

Thank you, appreciate it.

How have you been?

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~

Fine and will sent you a PM tomorrow with my going-ons. 

Godspeed!

[VincentRJ]

  On 11/25/2023 at 11:03 AM, Sunmaster said:

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Very amusing, Sunmaster. Did you draw this? It's quite a bit different from the Michael Angelo painting in the Sistine chapel. 

[Sunmaster]

  On 11/25/2023 at 8:00 PM, VincentRJ said:

 

 

Very amusing, Sunmaster. Did you draw this? It's quite a bit different from the Michael Angelo painting in the Sistine chapel. 

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Yes, I promised a drawing to a close friend. It includes several things of his life and his beliefs. During one of our last conversations, he told me he believes that consciousness is a byproduct of the brain, which I completely disagree with, of course. :-) From there the idea with the brain in the 'brain-o-matic' machine, trying to extrapolate life's secrets. 
 

[Walker88]

Sociobiologists have an interesting theory on why people believe. Given that almost every culture going back to the beginning of homo sapiens---and perhaps earlier---manufactured religions of some sort, their must be some evolutionary reason why it has been 'selected in'.

 

These scientists then consider what belief systems bring to the table. They decide the answer is stress reduction. Since stress is a killer, those with less stress are more likely to survive and propagate their gene pool.

 

Few people want to believe existence is random, short, and finite. It is comforting to believe something is in control and that existence never ends. If something is in control, perhaps a deal can be made with the controllers. That gives comfort and reduces the stress of randomness.

 

If the power is control is believed to be benevolent, that's even better (though the ability to make a deal with even a malevolent power is better than randomness). So a benevolent power is 'taking care' of those who believe in it. Performance also enters into it. People decide what rules a benevolent power would have, then they go about following them, believing they will be rewarded for that. Stress is further reduced. The rules need not be rational (such as avoiding certain foods or where one puts his private parts and when, or forcing women to dress like giant eggplants), as civilization itself is the force behind beneficial 'morality'. Odd rules, in fact, are just a way believers solidify their belief.

 

Being part of a community who believes similarly not only corroborates one's view, but also provides a sense of belonging and security. More stress reduction.

 

As science has provided actual answers to the realities of existence, the powers some control group or individual might have had is chipped away. For some people, that has led to increases in stress, while to others, it has pulled believers closer to gather in the hopes of saving their fading fantasy.

 

Perhaps with time more people will come to terms, or become comfortable with the fact humans are merely biological machines who come into existence by random chance and who disappear for all eternity when the machine fails and entropy wins.

 

 

[Sunmaster]

  On 11/26/2023 at 1:58 AM, Walker88 said:

Sociobiologists have an interesting theory on why people believe. Given that almost every culture going back to the beginning of homo sapiens---and perhaps earlier---manufactured religions of some sort, their must be some evolutionary reason why it has been 'selected in'.

 

These scientists then consider what belief systems bring to the table. They decide the answer is stress reduction. Since stress is a killer, those with less stress are more likely to survive and propagate their gene pool.

 

Few people want to believe existence is random, short, and finite. It is comforting to believe something is in control and that existence never ends. If something is in control, perhaps a deal can be made with the controllers. That gives comfort and reduces the stress of randomness.

 

If the power is control is believed to be benevolent, that's even better (though the ability to make a deal with even a malevolent power is better than randomness). So a benevolent power is 'taking care' of those who believe in it. Performance also enters into it. People decide what rules a benevolent power would have, then they go about following them, believing they will be rewarded for that. Stress is further reduced. The rules need not be rational (such as avoiding certain foods or where one puts his private parts and when, or forcing women to dress like giant eggplants), as civilization itself is the force behind beneficial 'morality'. Odd rules, in fact, are just a way believers solidify their belief.

 

Being part of a community who believes similarly not only corroborates one's view, but also provides a sense of belonging and security. More stress reduction.

 

As science has provided actual answers to the realities of existence, the powers some control group or individual might have had is chipped away. For some people, that has led to increases in stress, while to others, it has pulled believers closer to gather in the hopes of saving their fading fantasy.

 

Perhaps with time more people will come to terms, or become comfortable with the fact humans are merely biological machines who come into existence by random chance and who disappear for all eternity when the machine fails and entropy wins.

 

 

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There is certainly some truth to this, but I think it barely scratches the surface of the issue.
Accepting the thought that we are more than just biological machines is not just a backward evolutionary crutch that can be left behind thanks to some recent scientific discovery. 
Stress reduction is a welcomed byproduct of such a worldview, but definitely not the main goal. 
People believe because they need meaning in their lives. A meaning that goes beyond mere biological existence. Who am I? Why am I here? What is the meaning of all this? Why is there suffering? However advanced, science will never be able to answer these questions. It's neither its duty nor its goal. That's why people turn either to organized religion or perhaps seek a more personal relationship to the Divine. 

 

  On 11/26/2023 at 1:58 AM, Walker88 said:

Perhaps with time more people will come to terms, or become comfortable with the fact humans are merely biological machines

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It's a fact that humans have a material body. It's NOT a fact that THAT is all we are. That is a belief like many others. If you like to limit yourself to a biological machine, no problem, but please don't apply your belief to the rest of us. 

[thaibeachlovers]

  On 11/26/2023 at 1:22 AM, Sunmaster said:

Yes, I promised a drawing to a close friend. It includes several things of his life and his beliefs. During one of our last conversations, he told me he believes that consciousness is a byproduct of the brain, which I completely disagree with, of course. :-) From there the idea with the brain in the 'brain-o-matic' machine, trying to extrapolate life's secrets. 
 

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Does it just co incidentally look like a Cyberman?

 

Congrats for staying out of it for so long. I tried, but I got sucked back in.

 

The other long time member of the thread seems to have successfully escaped for good.

 

[thaibeachlovers]

  On 11/26/2023 at 1:58 AM, Walker88 said:

Few people want to believe existence is random, short, and finite. It is comforting to believe something is in control and that existence never ends. If something is in control, perhaps a deal can be made with the controllers. That gives comfort and reduces the stress of randomness.

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Perhaps many don't want to face reality, but reality says that for most of the human species, life is indeed random and short, though nothing proves consciousness is finite. The biological machine that carries us around ends, though it just becomes something else as nothing is actually lost on the planet, just gets recycled.

 

You may be correct that we all want "something" or "someone" to be in control, so we invent ways to pretend that the world isn't actually chaos, but humans, as the only animals with free will, are still mentally in the cave, fearful of the unknown and the "other". 50,000 years of existence and we still can't stop killing anyone we don't like, or destroying the environment.

 

If God actually had human like emotions, God would have sent another asteroid last century about 1918, IMO.

[thaibeachlovers]

  On 11/26/2023 at 1:58 AM, Walker88 said:

Perhaps with time more people will come to terms, or become comfortable with the fact humans are merely biological machines who come into existence by random chance and who disappear for all eternity when the machine fails and entropy wins.

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I didn't come into existence by random chance. My mother and my father did something that made me, on purpose.

 

How does it feel to believe that your existence is so devoid of meaning that it ends when the biological chariot breathes it's last? IMO that's rather sad.

[Sunmaster]

  On 11/26/2023 at 3:17 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

 

 

Does it just co incidentally look like a Cyberman?

 

Congrats for staying out of it for so long. I tried, but I got sucked back in.

 

The other long time member of the thread seems to have successfully escaped for good.

 

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The robot is a loose interpretation of Goldorak, aka Grandizer Ufo Robot. A cartoon series I grew up with in the early 80s.

[owl sees all]

I've been thinking about religion a lot lately. Don't know how many there are in the world. Maybe a dozen or so. Then there are the side religions; break-offs from the main one; like Christianity breaking away from Catholicism. Or Islam coming from Judaism.

 

I suggest a new religion; based on Nature. It could have bits and pieces from other religions put in, but essentially my religion would be simple. Five rules:::

 

1 - Respect and care for nature.

2 - Do not unnecessarily harm living things.

3 - At all times attempt to leave the earth unadulterated for the next generation.

4 - Do no harm to fellow humans.

5 - Treat others as you would like to be treated.

[save the frogs]

  On 11/26/2023 at 3:45 AM, owl sees all said:

1 - Respect and care for nature.

2 - Do not unnecessarily harm living things.

3 - At all times attempt to leave the earth unadulterated for the next generation.

4 - Do no harm to fellow humans.

5 - Treat others as you would like to be treated.

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Just telling people not to murder doesn't seem to work. Moses tried that already. 

Do unto others .. Jesus tried that. Doesn't always work too well. 

 

There have been religions that respect nature ... nobody knows about them because the current mainstream religions have taken up all the attention. 

 

Wicca, Paganism, shamanism, Taoism, Native Indians ... worship nature.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nature_worship#:~:text=Nature worship is often considered,theism and paganism including Wicca.