Do you believe in God and why

[mauGR1]

23 minutes ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

no God or heaven or hell or prophet...GROW UP!

Pls define "grow up".

[ravip]

Just now, mauGR1 said:

Pls define "grow up".

The Cambridge Dictionary defines it as...

????????

Edited November 22, 2019 by ravip

[mauGR1]

48 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The Bible is just a history book of the Jews, and the second testament is a history of the early Christian Church with a bit of mysticism thrown in by Revelations.

Well, i would not be so dismissive of the Bible, although i don't have the time and the will to study it .

I would question its historical accuracy, the translation inaccuracies, and the selective choice of the books which are presented to us as "the word of God".

 

[mauGR1]

8 minutes ago, ravip said:

The Cambridge Dictionary defines it as...

????????

 

38 minutes ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

no God or heaven or hell or prophet...GROW UP!

So, according to the Cambridge Dictionary, growing up has nothing to do with the belief in supernatural.

[CMNightRider]

Putting aside the fact the Bible is scientifically and historically accurate, there are over 300 precise prophecies that deal with the Lord Jesus Christ in the Old Testament that are fulfilled in the New Testament.  To say these are fulfilled by chance is an astronomical impossibility.      

 

For those who read the Bible and come away as non-believers, I seriously doubt if logic is a friend of yours.  

 

There are two paths in life we can take, the wide path to Hell or the narrow path to Heaven.  This choice shouldn't be taken lightly since the end result is eternity.  You have until your last breath to accept Jesus Christ as your saviour.  After that it is a done deal.  May God Bless you and have mercy on your soul.   

[Skeptic7]

21 minutes ago, CMNightRider said:

Putting aside the fact the Bible is scientifically and historically accurate, there are over 300 precise prophecies that deal with the Lord Jesus Christ in the Old Testament that are fulfilled in the New Testament.  To say these are fulfilled by chance is an astronomical impossibility.      

 

For those who read the Bible and come away as non-believers, I seriously doubt if logic is a friend of yours.  

 

There are two paths in life we can take, the wide path to Hell or the narrow path to Heaven.  This choice shouldn't be taken lightly since the end result is eternity.  You have until your last breath to accept Jesus Christ as your saviour.  After that it is a done deal.  May God Bless you and have mercy on your soul.   

555 this joke never gets old...to either of us! 

[Skeptic7]

1 hour ago, mauGR1 said:

 

So, according to the Cambridge Dictionary, growing up has nothing to do with the belief in supernatural.

So in your misuse of the dictionary, every definition must include every possible example to be valid? 

 

Parents tell children it's time to grow up and stop believing in Santa or not to be afraid of the dark or to get thru the day without their "blankly". The definition does not need to include these examples for the advice to be sound and the word accurately used. 

 

So it's time to grow up and stop believing in nonsense...and learn how to use a dictionary. 

Edited November 22, 2019 by Skeptic7

[CMNightRider]

44 minutes ago, Skeptic7 said:

555 this joke never gets old...to either of us! 

I really don't view this topic as a joke and neither should you or anyone else.  When we finish our lives on earth, we will all stand before God and be judged for our sins.  There will be nothing funny about that day.  For some it will be the happiest day of their life and others the saddest day, and the start of a never ending nightmare and eternity of regret. 

[ravip]

4 hours ago, CMNightRider said:

I really don't view this topic as a joke and neither should you or anyone else.  When we finish our lives on earth, we will all stand before God and be judged for our sins.  There will be nothing funny about that day.  For some it will be the happiest day of their life and others the saddest day, and the start of a never ending nightmare and eternity of regret. 

Why didn't the dear Lord make us all equal and good? What pleasure HE gains by judging us on our human weaknesses that HE himself embedded in us, as the creator?

For example, a manufacturer of an automobile makes it as perfect as possible. He gives a warranty to the customer, if he had done a mistake...

[CMNightRider]

32 minutes ago, ravip said:

Why didn't the dear Lord make us all equal and good? What pleasure HE gains by judging us on our human weaknesses that HE himself embedded in us, as the creator?

For example, a manufacturer of an automobile makes it as perfect as possible. He gives a warranty to the customer, if he had done a mistake...

According to Billy Graham, "then we would have been like puppets, unable to choose between right and wrong.  Our love for God wouldn’t have been genuine either, because we couldn’t have freely chosen to love God.  Love is real only when we can choose it.

 

The Bible says that God planned our salvation even “before the creation of the world” (Ephesians 1:4).  And the good news is that we don’t need to fear God’s judgment any longer, because Jesus Christ opened Heaven’s door to us by His death on the cross."  

[Skeptic7]

On 11/22/2019 at 5:33 PM, CMNightRider said:

According to Billy Graham, "then we would have been like puppets, unable to choose between right and wrong.  Our love for God wouldn’t have been genuine either, because we couldn’t have freely chosen to love God.  Love is real only when we can choose it.

 

The Bible says that God planned our salvation even “before the creation of the world” (Ephesians 1:4).  And the good news is that we don’t need to fear God’s judgment any longer, because Jesus Christ opened Heaven’s door to us by His death on the cross."  

Here's even better news...I've never feared any god's judgment! Not before...not now...not ever. And it didn't require any barbaric torture and blood sacrifice to get there. 

 

 

(Snip)

[ravip]

3 hours ago, CMNightRider said:

According to Billy Graham, "then we would have been like puppets, unable to choose between right and wrong.  Our love for God wouldn’t have been genuine either, because we couldn’t have freely chosen to love God.  Love is real only when we can choose it.

 

The Bible says that God planned our salvation even “before the creation of the world” (Ephesians 1:4).  And the good news is that we don’t need to fear God’s judgment any longer, because Jesus Christ opened Heaven’s door to us by His death on the cross."  

I find nothing wrong in being the puppet of the Good Lord.  No murderers, rapists, robbers etc. Heaven would have been here on earth.  Hell would not be necessary. We never would have known about bad.  No sickness. No suffering. Just pure bliss! 

Then,  people like Billy Graham would not be necessary either. We would know what is good by default.  Would this not be the perfect scenario? 

[UncleMhee]

4 hours ago, CMNightRider said:

According to Billy Graham, "then we would have been like puppets, unable to choose between right and wrong.

Except we aren't like puppets, we can choose right from wrong; but what proselytes don't understand is right & wrong isn't some universal law, it's individual. If you see something I do with a clear conscience, as being wrong; that's on you and your problem. That sees you as judging me and no one will judge me.....And that's why in the end people who think the same way as that will have the last laugh, because people like you will be told, "Truly, I never knew you". 

Narrow is the gate....the keeping of your own clear conscience my friend; not going out and about proselytising and stealing the God given individual minds of all others. May He have mercy on All of Your Souls!

[Elad]

19 hours ago, CMNightRider said:

When we finish our lives on earth, we will all stand before God and be judged for our sins.

With the current world death rate then God must be really busy. 

https://www.worldometers.info/

 

On average 1.8 humans die every second. That means God would have 0.56 seconds to judge each person for their sins. 

[UncleMhee]

2 minutes ago, Elad said:

With the current world death rate then God must be really busy. 

https://www.worldometers.info/

 

On average 1.8 humans die every second. That means God would have 0.56 seconds to judge each person for their sins. 

God had access to quantum computing though so, easy peasy....

[sirineou]

McKain is dead from cancer and trump is president, if that's not proof there is no god, nothing is.

[canuckamuck]

11 hours ago, UncleMhee said:

Except we aren't like puppets, we can choose right from wrong; but what proselytes don't understand is right & wrong isn't some universal law, it's individual. If you see something I do with a clear conscience, as being wrong; that's on you and your problem. That sees you as judging me and no one will judge me.....And that's why in the end people who think the same way as that will have the last laugh, because people like you will be told, "Truly, I never knew you". 

Narrow is the gate....the keeping of your own clear conscience my friend; not going out and about proselytising and stealing the God given individual minds of all others. May He have mercy on All of Your Souls!

If the ten commandments were observed by all we would have very little conflict and a much better standard of living. It would facilitate a wide open opportunity to advance the human condition in total security. It is because of those who choose to have one set of rules for themselves and another set for everyone else that we have problems. Relative morality is a recipe for chaos.

A basic set of moral standards is the only workable foundation for a harmonized community.

[bert bloggs]

I cant believe that this has been going so long ,i have read quite a few of the posts ,i am not religious ,wish i was ,but i just cannot believe that one entity created billions upon billions of worlds , even less so when you realize that until the Jewish faith "discovered" him he did not exist ,then The Christians ,thought up the fact that a married woman ,who was a virgin had his son,Jesus who preached good and equality to all , hundreds of years later a divorced guy comes along ,kills and slaughters his way to power ,marries a six year old and then is acclaimed the prophet,in place of Jesus .

sorry ,but it all comes across as ,a bit made up .

oh of course ,then you have all the other Gods that others believe in . mind you ,great way to keep the great unwashed in their places.

[Skeptic7]

1 hour ago, canuckamuck said:

If the ten commandments were observed by all we would have very little conflict and a much better standard of living. It would facilitate a wide open opportunity to advance the human condition in total security. It is because of those who choose to have one set of rules for themselves and another set for everyone else that we have problems. Relative morality is a recipe for chaos.

A basic set of moral standards is the only workable foundation for a harmonized community.

Nonsense. A few of them have some actual merit, but most are vague and some actually violate freedoms that most people hold dear...such as freedom of speech, expression and religion. 

 

And the punishment for breaking many of them is to be DEATH. WOW!

 

40% (the first 4) of them are about your god's inflated ego and jealous character.

Not all parents are deserving of honor.

IMO capitalism is based on coveting and regardless, certainly not any big deal.

Working on Sunday (or is it Saturday???)...most people would be guilty of this and should be put to death???

 

How about some really meaningful, such as...

 

Thou shalt not own other people as property. (NO slavery)

Thou shalt not abuse or harm children.

Ignore Thy God's bloodlust! Animal sacrifices and burnt offerings are stoo-pid. 

 

Most believers can't recite >50% without looking them up. Could you? 

Edited November 23, 2019 by Skeptic7

[Sunmaster]

6 hours ago, bert bloggs said:

I cant believe that this has been going so long ,i have read quite a few of the posts ,i am not religious ,wish i was ,but i just cannot believe that one entity created billions upon billions of worlds , even less so when you realize that until the Jewish faith "discovered" him he did not exist ,then The Christians ,thought up the fact that a married woman ,who was a virgin had his son,Jesus who preached good and equality to all , hundreds of years later a divorced guy comes along ,kills and slaughters his way to power ,marries a six year old and then is acclaimed the prophet,in place of Jesus .

sorry ,but it all comes across as ,a bit made up .

oh of course ,then you have all the other Gods that others believe in . mind you ,great way to keep the great unwashed in their places.

If you had really read the past posts, you would have seen that some of us made a great effort to make a very clear distinction between the religious dogma and the thing they all "try" to promote (the Source). It's very easy to make fun of the religious stories and those who take it so seriously. But they have very very little to do with the real thing.

A religion has only value if it can bring people closer to the Source.

Not intellectually, but through experience. Not merely through passive faith, but through active exploration of your Self. If it can't do that and instead propagates division between people ("only the true believer will go to heaven" "All infidels must die" "Ours is the only true religion" bla bla bla), then they are a worthless pile of <deleted> and deserve all ridicule you can come up with, and then some.
In that respect I'm probably closer to the viewpoint of the atheists here.

Edited November 23, 2019 by Sunmaster

[Skeptic7]

55 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

If you had really read the past posts, you would have seen that some of us made a great effort to make a very clear distinction between the religious dogma and the thing they all "try" to promote (the Source). It's very easy to make fun of the religious stories and those who take it so seriously. But they have very very little to do with the real thing.

A religion has only value if it can bring people closer to the Source.

Not intellectually, but through experience. Not merely through passive faith, but through active exploration of your Self. If it can't do that and instead propagates division between people ("only the true believer will go to heaven" "All infidels must die" "Ours is the only true religion" bla bla bla), then they are a worthless pile of <deleted> and deserve all ridicule you can come up with, and then some.
In that respect I'm probably closer to the viewpoint of the atheists here.

An otherwise good and reasonable post loses a lot when positive claims about "the real thing" (Coca-cola?!?) and "The Source" are inserted. Your subjective personal beliefs and experiences are not any more real than theirs just because you believe it, have experiences and say it's "the real thing". They all say so too. You think yours is real and discount theirs...they think theirs is real and discount yours...and I don't think any is real and discount all, due to lack of any demonstrable evidence.

 

So seriously...if you do have positive knowledge of "the real thing" and true "Source", then what are you doing here? Why not share it and prove it and be on the World's Stage...CNN, Oprah, BBC, etc...with your Nobel Prize, fame and fortune? Helping the world with all your knowledge and included benefits. 

Edited November 23, 2019 by Skeptic7

[UncleMhee]

25 minutes ago, Skeptic7 said:

 

 

Quote

 

So seriously...if you do have positive knowledge of "the real thing" and true "Source", then what are you doing here? Why not share it and prove it and be on the World's Stage...CNN, Oprah, BBC, etc...with your Nobel Prize, fame and fortune? Helping the world with all your knowledge and included benefits. 

I'm here because the real thing is so simple it's laughable, easily ridiculed and trying to break through 2000 years of prejudice and dogma is an impossible task. The pope's, bishops, pastors etc. who have bought the lie to convert others, are not wont to give up their power so easily.

People who can, already understand; people who can't, will never understand.

"I am the way, the truth and the life; follow me". My personal interpretation is thus; by following, you do and act the same way through following your own conscience, which is the only trustworthy way to know what the will of God, Source, etc. truly is for you. Nobody else know what your requirements to serve or do are; only you. 

Besides it's not about getting rich monetarily, and as it couldn't be discerned as a universal truth from a messenger then; why should it be any different now. People generally love to weild power over others in all sorts of situations. Well you won't get away with that <deleted> with this little black duck.

Follow your own, and keep a clear conscience; and let others do the same. 

Eg. Just because I can eat pork and you can't doesn't make either one of us better or worse than the other; it only makes us different from one another.

Edited November 23, 2019 by UncleMhee

[Sunmaster]

6 hours ago, Skeptic7 said:

An otherwise good and reasonable post loses a lot when positive claims about "the real thing" (Coca-cola?!?) and "The Source" are inserted. Your subjective personal beliefs and experiences are not any more real than theirs just because you believe it, have experiences and say it's "the real thing". They all say so too. You think yours is real and discount theirs...they think theirs is real and discount yours...and I don't think any is real and discount all, due to lack of any demonstrable evidence.

 

So seriously...if you do have positive knowledge of "the real thing" and true "Source", then what are you doing here? Why not share it and prove it and be on the World's Stage...CNN, Oprah, BBC, etc...with your Nobel Prize, fame and fortune? Helping the world with all your knowledge and included benefits. 

You make some valid points and I'll try to answer the best I can.

 

"The real thing" is the one that is there for anyone to experience, not just for me or for a few selected chosen ones. It's there for anyone willing to find out, including you if you want. 
Let's say you've never seen or touched water. Would you rather believe a book that has been changed over the course of 1000s of years, by people who probably never even actually touched the water.....or would you rather just go and find out by yourself? And once you've touched that water and experienced its wetness, temperature, color etc....will that experience be more "real" than what a book says or not?
And after you touched that water and now KNOW about it, will you be better equipped to distinguish good books (information) from useless information? I think you would.


What all the books about religion and spirituality do, is trying to describe the Source. Some are better than others, some resonate only with a certain type of person or culture, some are very specific, others more general, but that is for each one individually to judge.

Yes, I had a glimpse of the Source. A deep but a short look that changed my life, but I'm far from being enlightened. The people who teach on the world stage like you say, are far more qualified to do that. They have probably extended that glimpse into their day-to-day consciousness so that they become the embodiment of those spiritual qualities. 

I hope to have enough insight to comment here on Thaivisa though. ???? 
Seriously though, I do other things to promote the Source, or "spread the love", if you will. I do what I can.

[SinCityGr8One]

Nope!

[Skeptic7]

23 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

You make some valid points and I'll try to answer the best I can.

 

"The real thing" is the one that is there for anyone to experience, not just for me or for a few selected chosen ones. It's there for anyone willing to find out, including you if you want. 
Let's say you've never seen or touched water. Would you rather believe a book that has been changed over the course of 1000s of years, by people who probably never even actually touched the water.....or would you rather just go and find out by yourself? And once you've touched that water and experienced its wetness, temperature, color etc....will that experience be more "real" than what a book says or not?
And after you touched that water and now KNOW about it, will you be better equipped to distinguish good books (information) from useless information? I think you would.


What all the books about religion and spirituality do, is trying to describe the Source. Some are better than others, some resonate only with a certain type of person or culture, some are very specific, others more general, but that is for each one individually to judge.

Yes, I had a glimpse of the Source. A deep but a short look that changed my life, but I'm far from being enlightened. The people who teach on the world stage like you say, are far more qualified to do that. They have probably extended that glimpse into their day-to-day consciousness so that they become the embodiment of those spiritual qualities. 

I hope to have enough insight to comment here on Thaivisa though. ???? 
Seriously though, I do other things to promote the Source, or "spread the love", if you will. I do what I can.

I accept your answer as honest, though most of it doesn't really answer much. I'll break it down.

 

I totally agree with your opening sentence!

 

The 2nd paragraph is meaningless IMO. Reminds me of Deepak Chopra...and that is not a compliment, as some might think. Wordy analogies and ramblings that seem cool and intelligent...until one gives them a modicum of thought. Critical thought and they dissolve to nothingness. 

 

The 3rd paragraph...I'll take on your saying so.

 

The closing paragraph is no different than what anyone else with a different experience, belief or "source" would say. It does nothing to explain how or why it is any different or any more real. It doesn't set itself apart from any other claim. 

 

One thing I find interesting with ALL the different claims and religions and "gods" and "sources". All of them...whatever label one uses...sure seem to keep extremely well hidden. Just an observation, but all seem expert at "hide & seek". So expert, in fact, that even those whom supposedly experienced them, still cannot give good, concise explanations or descriptions. 

 

Or maybe it's just me...

[thaibeachlovers]

On 11/22/2019 at 4:24 PM, ravip said:

The Cambridge Dictionary defines it as...

????????

If someone is still living at home when they are 30, are they grown up?

Most of the people I know are grown up, but I don't know any millennials.

[Sunmaster]

6 hours ago, Skeptic7 said:

I accept your answer as honest, though most of it doesn't really answer much. I'll break it down.

 

I totally agree with your opening sentence!

 

The 2nd paragraph is meaningless IMO. Reminds me of Deepak Chopra...and that is not a compliment, as some might think. Wordy analogies and ramblings that seem cool and intelligent...until one gives them a modicum of thought. Critical thought and they dissolve to nothingness. 

 

The 3rd paragraph...I'll take on your saying so.

 

The closing paragraph is no different than what anyone else with a different experience, belief or "source" would say. It does nothing to explain how or why it is any different or any more real. It doesn't set itself apart from any other claim. 

 

One thing I find interesting with ALL the different claims and religions and "gods" and "sources". All of them...whatever label one uses...sure seem to keep extremely well hidden. Just an observation, but all seem expert at "hide & seek". So expert, in fact, that even those whom supposedly experienced them, still cannot give good, concise explanations or descriptions. 

 

Or maybe it's just me...

Maybe it is just you ????
I don't know what else I could do to satisfy your curiosity...
How would you try to convey an experience that is beyond words, other than in approximate metaphors?  Do you want to hear a precise description of my experience? I doubt very much that it would do you any good and besides, I feel it is too precious and personal to give it away on a forum like this. 
Why would you want any more information from me, or from anyone else for that matter, when all there is to discover is right there inside you?
Any explanation or description will always fall short of personal experience. 

If you feel it is not necessary in your life to believe in or search for the Source, that's totally fine. Maybe you'll feel that need later or never, maybe in your next life, who knows? It's your life and you are free to believe or not to believe, without having to worry about eternal damnation.

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

You make some valid points and I'll try to answer the best I can.

 

"The real thing" is the one that is there for anyone to experience, not just for me or for a few selected chosen ones. It's there for anyone willing to find out, including you if you want. 
Let's say you've never seen or touched water. Would you rather believe a book that has been changed over the course of 1000s of years, by people who probably never even actually touched the water.....or would you rather just go and find out by yourself? And once you've touched that water and experienced its wetness, temperature, color etc....will that experience be more "real" than what a book says or not?
And after you touched that water and now KNOW about it, will you be better equipped to distinguish good books (information) from useless information? I think you would.


What all the books about religion and spirituality do, is trying to describe the Source. Some are better than others, some resonate only with a certain type of person or culture, some are very specific, others more general, but that is for each one individually to judge.

Yes, I had a glimpse of the Source. A deep but a short look that changed my life, but I'm far from being enlightened. The people who teach on the world stage like you say, are far more qualified to do that. They have probably extended that glimpse into their day-to-day consciousness so that they become the embodiment of those spiritual qualities. 

I hope to have enough insight to comment here on Thaivisa though. ???? 
Seriously though, I do other things to promote the Source, or "spread the love", if you will. I do what I can.

Good post, but might as well talk to a brick wall, for all the convincing you will do.

I hope I'm not trying to convince anyone. If I have done so I apologise. I am not trying to bring the horse to water, but just showing the horse where the water is. If the horse would rather die of thirst than drink the water, that's the horse's choice.

[thaibeachlovers]

6 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

How would you try to convey an experience that is beyond words, other than in approximate metaphors?  Do you want to hear a precise description of my experience? I doubt very much that it would do you any good and besides, I feel it is too precious and personal to give it away on a forum like this. 

Well said.

I was trying to think of something that would put it in understandable terms, and the best I can come up with is trying to explain what an orgasm feels like. Other than saying it feels amazing, I could not begin to explain how it actually felt so that another person could understand it.

Likewise with faith. Some of us are lucky enough to have had a glimpse, but I have no way of conveying how it felt for me, other than it was amazing.

[Skeptic7]

@Sunmaster & @thaibeachlovers

 

My closing sentence about it being just me was rife with sarcasm, as it's obvious that's not the case. Not on this thread, nor on Thaivisa in general.

 

I've started 2 polls on this subject...first one a few years ago and 2nd earlier this year. Both had similar results of around 70% NO and 30% YES. 

 

It fascinating that y'all can be so passionate and devoted to your woo and have such strong faith in them...yet can't even begin to coherently explain or describe what it is, nor why it has so intensely moved you. At least all of you are consistent and on the same page in that aspect.