Do you believe in God and why

[xylophone]

3 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

The existence of the kundalini energy for example, the energy that is inherent in every living human being, is not an opinion.

That is just your opinion......nothing else but part of a different belief system. It is certainly an opinion and nothing more and some might say pure claptrap! 

 

Kundalini is a Sanscrit term from ancient India that identifies the arising of an energy and consciousness which has been coiled at the base of the spine since birth, and is the source of the life force (pranic energy, chi , bio-energy) that everybody knows.  Yogic science suggests that this energy triggered the formation of the child in the womb, and then coils 3 ½ times at the base of the spine to hold the energy field in stasis until we die, when it uncoils and returns to its source.

[mauGR1]

15 minutes ago, xylophone said:

That is just your opinion......nothing else but part of a different belief system. It is certainly an opinion and nothing more and some might say pure claptrap! 

 

Well, not going into debating the Kundalini here, but it's worth to consider that humans, with the advent of massive doses of technology, have lost touch with many other abilities.

An example, before the script, huge amounts of knowledge were transmitted orally from masters to disciples, those ancients folks used to have amazing memories.

My brother, who is a Sanskrit scholar, did meet one of the survivors of the oral tradition, if i have to believe my brother, that guy could remember huge holy books from the first to the last word.

[Sunmaster]

6 hours ago, xylophone said:

That is just your opinion......nothing else but part of a different belief system. It is certainly an opinion and nothing more and some might say pure claptrap! 

 

Kundalini is a Sanscrit term from ancient India that identifies the arising of an energy and consciousness which has been coiled at the base of the spine since birth, and is the source of the life force (pranic energy, chi , bio-energy) that everybody knows.  Yogic science suggests that this energy triggered the formation of the child in the womb, and then coils 3 ½ times at the base of the spine to hold the energy field in stasis until we die, when it uncoils and returns to its source.

Absolutely not just my opinion, but up to you if you're happy with that (non) explanation.
Besides the fact that I have experienced it first hand, countless others have too and the physical symptoms of this energy have been measured already.

What exactly do you base your opinion on to say it's claptrap? Pray tell.
If this energy is in every human being, then it doesn't matter which belief system or culture describes it. In fact, have you ever looked at the international symbol for medicine? It's called the Caduceus and it clearly represents the kundalini as it rises through the body.

It matters that it's there and it matters that it can be accessed. That's all that matters.

 

The caduceus is the staff carried by Hermes in Greek mythology and consequently by Hermes Trismegistus in Greco-Egyptian mythology. 

Kundalini, in Hinduism is a form of divine energy believed to be located at the base of the spine. It is an important concept in Śaiva Tantra, where it is believed to be a force or power associated with the divine feminine.

The Feathered Serpent was a prominent supernatural entity or deity, found in many Mesoamerican religions. It was called Quetzalcoatl among the Aztecs, Kukulkan among the Yucatec Maya, and Q'uq'umatz and Tohil among the K'iche' Maya.

Edited December 4, 2019 by Sunmaster

[xylophone]

58 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

Absolutely not just my opinion, but up to you if you're happy with that (non) explanation.
Besides the fact that I have experienced it first hand, countless others have too and the physical symptoms of this energy have been measured already.

What exactly do you base your opinion on to say it's claptrap? Pray tell.
If this energy is in every human being, then it doesn't matter which belief system or culture describes it. In fact, have you ever looked at the international symbol for medicine? It's called the Caduceus and it clearly represents the kundalini as it rises through the body.

It matters that it's there and it matters that it can be accessed. That's all that matters.

 

The caduceus is the staff carried by Hermes in Greek mythology and consequently by Hermes Trismegistus in Greco-Egyptian mythology. 

Kundalini, in Hinduism is a form of divine energy believed to be located at the base of the spine. It is an important concept in Śaiva Tantra, where it is believed to be a force or power associated with the divine feminine.

The Feathered Serpent was a prominent supernatural entity or deity, found in many Mesoamerican religions. It was called Quetzalcoatl among the Aztecs, Kukulkan among the Yucatec Maya, and Q'uq'umatz and Tohil among the K'iche' Maya.

The fact that you have included the words......

 

-- Mythology

--believed to be located....

--believed to be the force...

--feathered serpent...

--supernatural entity

and belief by the Aztecs, should be enough to convince any sane person that my words were spot on!!

 

Cannot be bothered with your nonsense so you go on ignore.......pure claptrap!

[sirineou]

3 hours ago, luckyluke said:

Sunmaster, I am Belgian, and English is my 4th.language. 

You are too academic for me. 

I leave to others to further discuss with you. 

I am a simple mind and my convictions and doing are simple too. 

I don't need intellectual discussions/debates to know what is right in my opinion, and what  I want to believe or not. 

But I know we are all different. 

Case closed for me. 

Your English is very good and much better than your Belgian (German/French/Dutch)

but I understand that you would probably be much better to express yourself in your native language, I also speak other languages conversational fluent but when I need to express myself eloquently I always change back to English. So I understand your frustration.

The Title of this thread is "Do you believe in God, and why" so just expressing that you do without the "why " falls short of the intended purpose of this thread. I am sure most of as don't really care  if you do or don't

we simple want to know 'Why"

But Thank you for participating.

[Sunmaster]

Thank you for making my point Xylophone.

Another close-minded ignoramus who has a strong opinion based on weak information and when presented with new data they can't process, they go in overdrive and shut down. Processor fried! 555

 

In the words of William Arthur Ward:
Nothing limits achievement like small thinking, nothing expands possibilities like unleashed imagination.

[Skeptic7]

3 hours ago, transam said:

At this time in mans evolution, folk now worship the iPhone, it is now their new god...????

An Android guy myself...but get yo meaning! At least smartphones truly exist and at times are a actually a lifesaver. Can teach all kinds of valuable lessons and give useful advice. Some might even say they perform miracles. 

 

They're certainly more deserving than any of the spiritual spin or deity drivel presented here! 

[Sunmaster]

19 hours ago, Skeptic7 said:

An Android guy myself...but get yo meaning! At least smartphones truly exist and at times are a actually a lifesaver. Can teach all kinds of valuable lessons and give useful advice. Some might even say they perform miracles. 

 

They're certainly more deserving than any of the spiritual spin or deity drivel presented here! 

How about you go and pray to your iphone? You have nothing of value to contribute and obviously are too narrow-minded to learn from anything here, neither of us is profiting from your presence....So why prolonging the pain?
The arrogance is just unbelievable. And the last sentence says far more about your character than what you're trying so desperately to ridicule. 
Pathetic

[mauGR1]

7 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

So why prolonging the pain?

Probably he needs someone to acknowledge his existence, meanwhile he does what he can do better, mudslinging

[thaibeachlovers]

On 12/3/2019 at 12:47 AM, Sunmaster said:

Well, in this case, ultracrepidarianism must go both ways then, for example when materialists claim there is no higher power. They might be experts in their field regarding the material world, but have no authority whatsoever to deny the existence of Spirit. All they can offer in that respect is an opinion, which will be equal to any other opinion that comes from an non-authoritative source.

Now, if we go to look for people who have actually studied, meditated upon, experienced and ultimately realized Spirit, the so-called real AUTHORITIES of that field, then what they say must have more value, weight and truth than just an opinion brought forward by some scientists. 
Seems to me quite logical, but in reality this is rarely the case. More often than not, when a scientist speaks about being atheist, it is used to support atheism in general as if it were a fact. 

Well said. You just pointed out that according to his logic, no person is qualified to decide if God exists or not as it is outside all our expertise.

[xylophone]

18 hours ago, TooBigToFit said:

Just talk to a rock for the rest of your lives. If you believe the rock is your god, you will feel fulfilled until your deaths.

There you go, you have solved it...........WELL DONE.

[CharlieH]

Reported post removed and subsequent responses to it.

 

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[luckyluke]

17 hours ago, sirineou said:

we simple want to know 'Why

I don't believe in an existence of "something" as, being a simple mortal, I expect tangible/visual proof of it. 

 

Not what others consider as "proves" with academic statements, or quotes from a book. 

 

If one has to be a great scholar to understand the so called "existence" of "it", or simply accept/swallow what is written somewhere, 

it is obvious(for me) that "believing/religion" is not for everyone. 

 

[sirineou]

1 hour ago, luckyluke said:

I don't believe in an existence of "something" as, being a simple mortal, I expect tangible/visual proof of it. 

 

Not what others consider as "proves" with academic statements, or quotes from a book. 

 

If one has to be a great scholar to understand the so called "existence" of "it", or simply accept/swallow what is written somewhere, 

it is obvious(for me) that "believing/religion" is not for everyone. 

 

Is believing and religion the same thing?can you have one without the other?

[Sunmaster]

8 hours ago, luckyluke said:

I don't believe in an existence of "something" as, being a simple mortal, I expect tangible/visual proof of it. 

 

Not what others consider as "proves" with academic statements, or quotes from a book. 

 

If one has to be a great scholar to understand the so called "existence" of "it", or simply accept/swallow what is written somewhere, 

it is obvious(for me) that "believing/religion" is not for everyone. 

 

You don't have to be/do either of that. 
All you have to do is sit down, close your eyes and become a witness to your own thoughts.

No need to be a philosopher, scientist, scholar or religious. No need to accept any holy books, no need to believe or have faith. 
Do that and find out by yourself. Find the proof by yourself, because it won't be served to you on a silver platter.

 

[luckyluke]

1 hour ago, sirineou said:

Is believing and religion the same thing?can you have one without the other?

Yes according to me is religion the same as believing. 

 

Addendum :

Just checked synonyms of religion :

"believe" "sect" "cult". 

Edited December 5, 2019 by luckyluke

[luckyluke]

6 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

You don't have to be/do either of that. 
All you have to do is sit down, close your eyes and become a witness to your own thoughts.

No need to be a philosopher, scientist, scholar or religious. No need to accept any holy books, no need to believe or have faith. 
Do that and find out by yourself. Find the proof by yourself, because it won't be served to you on a silver platter.

 

It may be the case for you and many others, not for me. 

 

Same as I tried to read the Bible and Koran:

I didn't understand it and had a feeling of boring. 

 

We are all different. 

 

I am since ca. 60 years a non-believer, it may change if I encounter a tangible proof of the "existence" of "something". 

 

I am perfectly happy in this situation, and have no doubt that "believers" are happy as well. 

 

Hence I am not trying to convince them that they may be wrong in their opinion/belief. 

 

 

 

 

 

[sirineou]

17 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

Yes according to me is religion the same as believing. 

 

Addendum :

Just checked synonyms of religion :

"believe" "sect" "cult". 

Sure , All Chinese are asians but are all asians Chinese. 

[luckyluke]

10 minutes ago, sirineou said:

Sure , All Chinese are asians but are all asians Chinese. 

I can only repeat myself that we are all different. 

 

Hence I use the words:

 

"According to me..." 

[yodsak]

On 12/1/2019 at 12:53 PM, AussieBob18 said:

Bertrand Russell once stated when giving a lecture and discussing non-anthropomorphic concepts of God:  "That sort of God is, I think, not one that can actually be disproved, as I think the Omnipotent and Benevolent creator can".

[Sunmaster]

6 hours ago, yodsak said:

This is all good and well, but the notion of a higher power didn't just come out of thin air. 

It was first experienced by the shamans of ancient tribes, taught and passed on from generation to generation. Only much much later transcribed into books and organized into religions.
At first the knowledge was first hand, alive and dynamic. With the advent of religious institutions it changed to second hand knowledge, rather passive and stagnant, because it ceased to be a direct experience. 
Talking more about the Western religions here. Eastern religions on the other hand have a long tradition of "practice" integrated in the main body of their teachings.

If one were to follow the teapot analogy, all the millions of practitioners who spent their lives meditating and devoting their lives to the search of Truth, all these people would be nothing more than gullible puppets who are just blindly following what a guy said a few thousand years ago.
Please note: sure, some people read a book or choose to believe and they don't need further proof. I'm talking about people who practiced meditation for decades and verified what other meditators have discovered before them.

Do you really think they are all either delusional fools (best case scenario) or intentionally spread lies and deceptions in a huge conspiracy that spans thousands of years, perpetrated simultaneously by countless cultures and by people of all kinds of social standings, wealth, education, race and age.

Wouldn't the more logical answer be that there is indeed something?

That some people know how to access that something.

That some people instinctively feel there is something.

That some people choose to dedicate their lives to find this something.
That some people write down their experiences about this something.
That some people choose to have faith in this something.

[oldhippy]

10 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

This is all good and well, but the notion of a higher power didn't just come out of thin air. 

It was first experienced by the shamans of ancient tribes, taught and passed on from generation to generation. Only much much later transcribed into books and organized into religions.
At first the knowledge was first hand, alive and dynamic. With the advent of religious institutions it changed to second hand knowledge, rather passive and stagnant, because it ceased to be a direct experience. 
Talking more about the Western religions here. Eastern religions on the other hand have a long tradition of "practice" integrated in the main body of their teachings.

If one were to follow the teapot analogy, all the millions of practitioners who spent their lives meditating and devoting their lives to the search of Truth, all these people would be nothing more than gullible puppets who are just blindly following what a guy said a few thousand years ago.
Please note: sure, some people read a book or choose to believe and they don't need further proof. I'm talking about people who practiced meditation for decades and verified what other meditators have discovered before them.

Do you really think they are all either delusional fools (best case scenario) or intentionally spread lies and deceptions in a huge conspiracy that spans thousands of years, perpetrated simultaneously by countless cultures and by people of all kinds of social standings, wealth, education, race and age.

Wouldn't the more logical answer be that there is indeed something?

That some people know how to access that something.

That some people instinctively feel there is something.

Thatsome people choose to dedicate their lives to find this something.
That some people write down their experiences about this something.
That some people choose to have faith in this something.

You lost me with:

 

QUOTES:

the notion of a higher power didn't just come out of thin air. 

some people instinctively feel there is something.

some people choose to dedicate their lives to find this something

some people choose to have faith in this something

 

 

 

[Sunmaster]

6 hours ago, oldhippy said:

You lost me with:

 

QUOTES:

the notion of a higher power didn't just come out of thin air. 

some people instinctively feel there is something.

some people choose to dedicate their lives to find this something

some people choose to have faith in this something

 

 

 

Ok...

 

Edited December 5, 2019 by Sunmaster

[VincentRJ]

58 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

This is all good and well, but the notion of a higher power didn't just come out of thin air. 

Of course not. It came from the ability of our species to develop language and abstract thought, which enabled us to speculate on all sorts of issues.

 

What do we mean by a 'higher power'? Presumably a stronger power that can do things and create things beyond our capabilities. Examples are extreme weather events such as floods, droughts and hurricanes, and even more devastating events such as Earthquakes, Tsunamis, Volcanic Eruptions, diseases and plagues.

 

During those times in the past when the current major religions were created, there was, at best, little understanding of such processes, and often no understanding at all. A 'mystical higher power' was an imaginative 'hypothesis' created in order to explain such powerful forces that could destroy human lives en masse.

[oldhippy]

So mankind created gods in their own image.

Next mankind invented religions.

Finally, religions outsmarted their own gods.

And now, everybody is free to invent their own god(s).

 

Mankind still has a long way to go towards civilisation.

 

Edited December 5, 2019 by oldhippy
.

[Sunmaster]

6 hours ago, VincentRJ said:

Of course not. It came from the ability of our species to develop language and abstract thought, which enabled us to speculate on all sorts of issues.

 

What do we mean by a 'higher power'? Presumably a stronger power that can do things and create things beyond our capabilities. Examples are extreme weather events such as floods, droughts and hurricanes, and even more devastating events such as Earthquakes, Tsunamis, Volcanic Eruptions, diseases and plagues.

 

During those times in the past when the current major religions were created, there was, at best, little understanding of such processes, and often no understanding at all. A 'mystical higher power' was an imaginative 'hypothesis' created in order to explain such powerful forces that could destroy human lives en masse.

Ok, so you say that the concept of a 'higher power' was necessary in the past to explain natural phenomena. I agree to a certain point, but I don't think you give those old civilizations enough credit. Some of them had a deep understanding of astronomy 1000s of years ago, which we Westeners only gained in the past 50 years or so. 
Take the Mayan calendar for example. It precisely calculated the precession of the earth over a span of 26.000years (if I'm not mistaken). 
Sure there were simple folks then as there are today who take things for granted without much of a thought. At the same time there were also extraordinary individuals who possessed a far bigger understanding of the universe. 
It is logical to assume that those people were also the keepers of the 'spiritual knowledge/science'. 

I just think that the "ignorant peasant" argument doesn't fully explain what happened.

 

 

[oldhippy]

5 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

Ok, so you say that the concept of a 'higher power' was necessary in the past to explain natural phenomena. I agree to a certain point, but I don't think you give those old civilizations enough credit. Some of them had a deep understanding of astronomy 1000s of years ago, which we Westeners only gained in the past 50 years or so. 
Take the Mayan calendar for example. It precisely calculated the precession of the earth over a span of 26.000years (if I'm not mistaken). 
Sure there were simple folks then as there are today who take things for granted without much of a thought. At the same time there were also extraordinary individuals who possessed a far bigger understanding of the universe. there were also extraordinary individuals who possessed a far bigger understanding of the universe. 
It is logical to assume that those people were also the keepers of the 'spiritual knowledge/science'. 

I just think that the "ignorant peasant" argument doesn't fully explain what happened.

 

 

QUOTES:

1/ there were also extraordinary individuals who possessed a far bigger understanding of the universe. 

2/ I just think that the "ignorant peasant" argument doesn't fully explain what happened.

 

What you say illustrates the eternal difference between scientists and believers.

Today, just like 1000s of years ago.

 

[mauGR1]

1 hour ago, VincentRJ said:

Of course not. It came from the ability of our species to develop language and abstract thought, which enabled us to speculate on all sorts of issues.

 

What do we mean by a 'higher power'? Presumably a stronger power that can do things and create things beyond our capabilities. Examples are extreme weather events such as floods, droughts and hurricanes, and even more devastating events such as Earthquakes, Tsunamis, Volcanic Eruptions, diseases and plagues.

 

During those times in the past when the current major religions were created, there was, at best, little understanding of such processes, and often no understanding at all. A 'mystical higher power' was an imaginative 'hypothesis' created in order to explain such powerful forces that could destroy human lives en masse.

Great.

So now science can "explain" earthquakes and tsunamis but cannot manage to control them.

Human life is longer on average in modern times, but is it better ? Perhaps for a few, same old.

In ancient times, some imaginary God created the universe, now life "evolved from nothing with a big bang".

So, apparently the great achievements of modern science that make you so proud are just a little fart in the mystery of existence.

What has never changed, is the arrogance of the kids who think that they are better than their parents.

 

 

[oldhippy]

15 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Great.

So now science can "explain" earthquakes and tsunamis but cannot manage to control them.

Human life is longer on average in modern times, but is it better ? Perhaps for a few, same old.

In ancient times, some imaginary God created the universe, now life "evolved from nothing with a big bang".

So, apparently the great achievements of modern science that make you so proud are just a little fart in the mystery of existence.

What has never changed, is the arrogance of the kids who think that they are better than their parents.

 

 

QUOTE: What has never changed, is the arrogance of the kids who think that they are better than their parents.

 

And what is the relevance of that statement to the existence of god(s)?

Are you having issues with young people?

 

 

[mauGR1]

2 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

QUOTE: What has never changed, is the arrogance of the kids who think that they are better than their parents.

 

And what is the relevance of that statement to the existence of god(s)?

Are you having issues with young people?

 

 

Pls use the brain when quoting me, it's a metaphor.

Thanks