Do you believe in God and why

[mauGR1]

9 minutes ago, scammed said:

time is more than an opinion, we have a memory of the past because we have a correlation with the past, we had interaction events in the past,

but we have no memory of future because we havnt interact with future events

 

eternity, well, that is what heat death looks like to me

There are infinite degrees of truth.

Some truth will be found to be untrue.

The laws of gravity,  for example,  was, is, and will probably be a very long lasting truth, but in physics, everything which has a beginning,  it has an end.

Eternity might be the ultimate truth, but I have to admit that I cannot prove it with ordinary speech. 

It's just my inner feeling. 

[scammed]

3 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

There are infinite degrees of truth.

Some truth will be found to be untrue.

The laws of gravity,  for example,  was, is, and will probably be a very long lasting truth, but in physics, everything which has a beginning,  it has an end.

Eternity might be the ultimate truth, but I have to admit that I cannot prove it with ordinary speech. 

It's just my inner feeling. 

if you distill physics hard enough, it is the logic that an effect must have a cause,

and if it has no cause its either illogical or we havnt established the cause.

 

i dont understand what you refer to as beginning and end,

eternity is just that, no end of time and no reverse,

just an ever emptier expanding infinite universe,

but for example penrose dont think that will happen

[mauGR1]

6 minutes ago, scammed said:

if you distill physics hard enough, it is the logic that an effect must have a cause,

and if it has no cause its either illogical or we havnt established the cause.

 

i dont understand what you refer to as beginning and end,

eternity is just that, no end of time and no reverse,

just an ever emptier expanding infinite universe,

but for example penrose dont think that will happen

Agree of course with the 1st paragraph. 

Everything, i, you, the sun and the earth has a beginning and an end.

"Nothing " is a figure of speech,  but "nothing " cannot exist by definition. 

We are left with "everything "..

If I'm conscious of my consciousness, it's fair to concede that some sort of consciousness is eternal. 

[scammed]

47 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Agree of course with the 1st paragraph. 

Everything, i, you, the sun and the earth has a beginning and an end.

"Nothing " is a figure of speech,  but "nothing " cannot exist by definition. 

We are left with "everything "..

If I'm conscious of my consciousness, it's fair to concede that some sort of consciousness is eternal. 

yes, nothingness is figuratively speaking, nothing worth squat better frame the situation.

on conscious, im out of my depth

[Sunmaster]

5 hours ago, VincentRJ said:

 

Or, to put it another way, if you can see that there is a divine principle behind the material world, then maybe the lighting was so strong that it blinded you. ????

 

Every perceived thing, or experience, is subject to interpretation.

Nice comeback ????

I realize that just like a fruit needs time to become ripe, every person learns to open to the light on his/her own time. 

One can go through life with the little light he carved out for himself and the strategies he learned as a child to get that little bit of love. The strategies become habits, the habits form your character and shape your belief system. As a child you build up your "I" identity with those. But what were you before you learned you had a name, before you learned those strategies, before you learned that your identity is separated from other identities? You were still a conscious being, right? 

 

What happens when those strategies fail to fulfill a greater need? A need that can't be fulfilled by power, wealth, admiration, or even the love from friends and family? Those are impermanent...when the source goes away, so goes the light that came with it. Where do you turn to then? What source of light is not conditioned by anything, is ever present and ever giving? It is not an external light, it is within, and once you've established a link to it, all other sources become secondary and you see them for what they really are: impermanent illusions.

 

The divine light is a light that burns with the strength of a million suns, yet it is a light that will never blind you.

[mauGR1]

1 hour ago, scammed said:

yes, nothingness is figuratively speaking, nothing worth squat better frame the situation.

on conscious, im out of my depth

No worries, the greatest scientists, who know almost everything, are out of depth if you ask them about consciousness. 

[ivor bigun]

wow ,still going so strong,what did i start?

[CMNightRider]

Does God exist?  Of course He exists.  All one has to do is read the Bible.  

 

God Himself wrote every word of the Bible through 40 plus men He guided over a period of 1500 plus years of history from 1446 BC to 90 AD.

 

Why should you believe the Bible is true?  Jesus Christ believed the Bible.  The Apostles and Prophets believed the Bible.  The survival of Gods word is reason to believe the Bible, not to mention prophetic accuracy, scientific accuracy, and historic accuracy of the Bible.

 

Anyone who can read the Bible and not believe it to be God's word, either has a very low cognitive ability or is being less than truthful about reading the Bible.

 

We are in the "end times" as foretold in the Bible.  According to the Bible, we are very close to witnessing the Rapture.  You do not want to be a non-believer when this event happens. 

[scammed]

given that most if not all religions has a chapter or two around ragnarok/armageddon/gods punishment/flood/etc,

and some specified means of salvation to survive said doom,

i think its deeply entrenched in human psyche,

and why doom prophecies has such a sex appeal

especially when combined with the appeal of salvation.

 

its not rational in the slightest, but the belief conquers all

and is a powerful tool in any rulers tool box,

all the more reason for rulers to encourage this craving

and define the path to salvation which 'happens' to coincide with

the rulers wish, and even better yet if audience

is living in fear and place all their hope on the ruler for salvation

 

https://books.google.co.th/books/about/Manipulation.html?id=hF6yAwAAQBAJ&redir_esc=y

Edited January 3, 2021 by scammed

[ivor bigun]

2 hours ago, CMNightRider said:

Does God exist?  Of course He exists.  All one has to do is read the Bible.  

 

God Himself wrote every word of the Bible through 40 plus men He guided over a period of 1500 plus years of history from 1446 BC to 90 AD.

 

Why should you believe the Bible is true?  Jesus Christ believed the Bible.  The Apostles and Prophets believed the Bible.  The survival of Gods word is reason to believe the Bible, not to mention prophetic accuracy, scientific accuracy, and historic accuracy of the Bible.

 

Anyone who can read the Bible and not believe it to be God's word, either has a very low cognitive ability or is being less than truthful about reading the Bible.

 

We are in the "end times" as foretold in the Bible.  According to the Bible, we are very close to witnessing the Rapture.  You do not want to be a non-believer when this event happens. 

actually i have read the bible ,when young i believed every word of it , then as i got older i realized that it was just stories written at different times by different people ,as for Jesus it took the "church' a long time to make up their minds which of the prophets of the time was actually the one ,

I wish i was like you and truly believed that there was a God and that Jesus was his son on Earth ,it must give one such a comfortable feeling ,that when they die ,they will be reunited with their loved ones .

mind you for those who have been married and loved a few ,wonder which one you get to be with ,?

[scammed]

24 minutes ago, ivor bigun said:

mind you for those who have been married and loved a few ,wonder which one you get to be with ,?

islam got answer to that wish list,

which tbh doesnt deviate all that much from my own wish list,

once i subtracted the married and loved  variables

Edited January 3, 2021 by scammed

[Sunmaster]

48 minutes ago, ivor bigun said:

I wish i was like you

Be careful what you wish for... ????

[VincentRJ]

1 hour ago, Sunmaster said:

Actually it's a bit sad that that's all you took away from my post...but such is life.

You mean this part of your post?

 

"What happens when those strategies fail to fulfill a greater need? A need that can't be fulfilled by power, wealth, admiration, or even the love from friends and family? Those are impermanent...when the source goes away, so goes the light that came with it. Where do you turn to then? What source of light is not conditioned by anything, is ever present and ever giving? It is not an external light, it is within, and once you've established a link to it, all other sources become secondary and you see them for what they really are: impermanent illusions."

 

Fair enough! This is consistent with Buddhism, but no God is required for Buddhist practices. The thread is about 'God'.

[Sunmaster]

3 minutes ago, VincentRJ said:

You mean this part of your post?

 

"What happens when those strategies fail to fulfill a greater need? A need that can't be fulfilled by power, wealth, admiration, or even the love from friends and family? Those are impermanent...when the source goes away, so goes the light that came with it. Where do you turn to then? What source of light is not conditioned by anything, is ever present and ever giving? It is not an external light, it is within, and once you've established a link to it, all other sources become secondary and you see them for what they really are: impermanent illusions."

 

Fair enough! This is consistent with Buddhism, but no God is required for Buddhist practices. The thread is about 'God'.

You can label it Buddhist or whatever, I call it common sense. 

Is that all you have to add? 

[VincentRJ]

7 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

You can label it Buddhist or whatever, I call it common sense. 

Is that all you have to add? 

 Then you should clearly state that your definition of God is 'Common Sense'. Right?

[Sunmaster]

5 minutes ago, VincentRJ said:

 Then you should clearly state that your definition of God is 'Common Sense'. Right?

Of course God is common sense.

And so much more.

[sirineou]

11 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

Well,  you completely ignored my definition of God ( God is everything  )

.. and next you came out with some nonsense about the nine lives of cats.(have you tried that with your cat ?)

I would call it hilarious trolling, and I'm not completely against it. Cheers. 

If god is everything then I guess I have to concede that I too believe that everything that exists does indeed exist.  

[sirineou]

39 minutes ago, sirineou said:

If god is everything then I guess I have to concede that I too believe that everything that exists does indeed exist.  

To to test the hypothesis I have spend most of the morning going around and poking at things indiscremendly in a random fashion,  my dog did not seem to appreciate it when I got to her, but that only reinforced my belief that she does indeed exist . I am very excited, though a bit disappointed that i will have to share the Nobel Prize  with mauGR1, after all I did most of the poking .

Edited January 3, 2021 by sirineou

[oldhippy]

After 714 pages nobody has been able to prove that there is a god, or to prove that there is no god.

After 714 pages nobody has been able to define god.

 

May I suggest to slightly change the topic title?

 

do-you-believe-in-god-and-why........would that matter?

 

[VincentRJ]

13 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

Of course God is common sense.

And so much more.

 

Yes, you are right. 

[mauGR1]

12 hours ago, sirineou said:

If god is everything then I guess I have to concede that I too believe that everything that exists does indeed exist.  

You are starting to make some progress.

Now you could try to ask yourself, preferably when you are sober, if the great amount of consciousness you possess, is the highest,  the lowest, or somewhere in the middle of the infinite range of levels of consciousness in the visible tiny bit of the whole universe.

Undoubtedly,  while you're able to define the exact limits and limitations of your physical body, your imagination and thus your consciousness can embrace a much bigger part of what we call reality. 

As someone said, the sky is the limit.

 

[CharlieH]

Trolling comments and responses removed.

 

9) You will not post inflammatory messages on the forum, or attempt to disrupt discussions to upset its participants, or trolling. Trolling can be defined as the act of purposefully antagonizing other people on the internet by posting controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.

[CharlieH]

"Troll" (as defined by forum rules)is also my perception, if this continues people will be enjoying a posting holiday.

[Sunmaster]

Lol Wow
If my posts create such an aggravation, I think I'll take an indefinite voluntary posting holiday. ????
But I'm worried....what will my stalker write about now? ????
 

[mauGR1]

14 hours ago, sirineou said:

To to test the hypothesis I have spend most of the morning going around and poking at things indiscremendly in a random fashion,  my dog did not seem to appreciate it when I got to her, but that only reinforced my belief that she does indeed exist . I am very excited, though a bit disappointed that i will have to share the Nobel Prize  with mauGR1, after all I did most of the poking .

Why not start a thread about poking dogs and random things, as I see it makes you excited.. it may satisfy as well your thirst for a constructive conversation ????

[Tagged]

21 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

Lol Wow
If my posts create such an aggravation, I think I'll take an indefinite voluntary posting holiday. ????
But I'm worried....what will my stalker write about now? ????
 

Aggravation can lead to inspiration as well, think about it ;- 

[Sunmaster]

3 hours ago, Tagged said:

Aggravation can lead to inspiration as well, think about it ;- 

Agree, but I'm not the one who should think about it. ???? 

[mauGR1]

On 1/4/2021 at 10:27 AM, Sunmaster said:

Lol Wow
If my posts create such an aggravation, I think I'll take an indefinite voluntary posting holiday. ????
But I'm worried....what will my stalker write about now? ????
 

There are still many Anthroposophists who think that something may be reached by direct discussion with the opponent. Nothing can do us more harm than success in setting forth our truths in the form of discussion; for people do not hate us because we say something that is not true, but because we say the truth. And the more we succeed in proving that we say the truth, the more they will hate us.
Of course this cannot prevent us from stating the truth. But it can prevent us from being so naïve as to think that it is possible to progress by discussion. Only positive work enables us to progress; truth should be represented as strongly as possible, so as to attract as many predestined souls as possible, for these are far more numerous in the present time than is generally assumed. These souls will find the spiritual nourishment needed for the time when no destructive, but constructive work will have to be done, if human development is to follow an ascending, not a descending curve."
Rudolf Steiner #rudolfsteiner

[Tagged]

46 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

Agree, but I'm not the one who should think about it. ???? 

Oh, I did not point any direction ???? 

 

Im as said happy for this thread, it made me more convinced and rooted in my belief, and I feel stronger now than before, because I managed to put words to my feelings and my belief. 

 

But also an adventure to go back and see what I have digested by the years, and how that in fact influenced me by time, and have matured. 

 

I feel more relaxed and comforted as well. 

Edited January 5, 2021 by Tagged

[Ladidaa]

6 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

There are still many Anthroposophists who think that something may be reached by direct discussion with the opponent. Nothing can do us more harm than success in setting forth our truths in the form of discussion; for people do not hate us because we say something that is not true, but because we say the truth. And the more we succeed in proving that we say the truth, the more they will hate us.
Of course this cannot prevent us from stating the truth. But it can prevent us from being so naïve as to think that it is possible to progress by discussion. Only positive work enables us to progress; truth should be represented as strongly as possible, so as to attract as many predestined souls as possible, for these are far more numerous in the present time than is generally assumed. These souls will find the spiritual nourishment needed for the time when no destructive, but constructive work will have to be done, if human development is to follow an ascending, not a descending curve."
Rudolf Steiner #rudolfsteiner

 

The good old Plato was right, ey? 2000 years and still the same story...

 

The ‘Allegory Of The Cave’ is a theory put forward by Plato, concerning human perception. Plato claimed that knowledge gained through the senses is no more than opinion and that, in order to have real knowledge, we must gain it through philosophical reasoning.

 

‘The Allegory of the Cave’ by Plato

 In the Allegory of the Cave, Plato distinguishes between people who mistake sensory knowledge for the truth and people who really do see the truth. It goes like this:

 

 The Cave

• Imagine a cave, in which there are three prisoners. The prisoners are tied to some rocks, their arms and legs are bound and their head is tied so that they cannot look at anything but the stonewall in front of them.
• These prisoners have been here since birth and have never seen outside of the cave.
• Behind the prisoners is a fire, and between them is a raised walkway.
• People outside the cave walk along this walkway carrying things on their head including; animals, plants, wood and stone.

 The Shadows

• So, imagine that you are one of the prisoners. You cannot look at anything behind or to the side of you – you must look at the wall in front of you.
• When people walk along the walkway, you can see shadows of the objects they are carrying cast on to the wall.
•  If you had never seen the real objects ever before, you would believe that the shadows of objects were ‘real.

The Game

• Plato suggests that the prisoners would begin a ‘game’ of guessing which shadow would appear next.
• If one of the prisoners were to correctly guess, the others would praise him as clever and say that he were a master of nature.

 The Escape

• One of the prisoners then escapes from their bindings and leaves the cave.
• He is shocked at the world he discovers outside the cave and does not believe it can be real.
• As he becomes used to his new surroundings, he realizes that his former view of reality was wrong.
• He begins to understand his new world, and sees that the Sun is the source of life and goes on an intellectual journey where he discovers beauty and meaning
• He see’s that his former life, and the guessing game they played is useless.

 The Return

The returning prisoner, whose eyes have become accustomed to the sunlight, would be blind when he re-enters the cave, just as he was when he was first exposed to the sun. The prisoners, according to Plato, would infer from the returning man's blindness that the journey out of the cave had harmed him and that they should not undertake a similar journey. Plato concludes that the prisoners, if they were able, would therefore reach out and kill anyone who attempted to drag them out of the cave.

 

 

Sounds familiar, right? ????