Do you believe in God and why

[mauGR1]

9 minutes ago, TropicalGuy said:

I understand your point as well as it was written. Not a mind- reader. 

You wrongly connect Divinity Faith with Scientific Principles. 

It is clearly Religious Fools & Simpletons who are “ indoctrinated” and who override reason & science with superstition & faith. 
 

Science is Truth & Required for Human Existence. Religion, with all its lies, Business & trappings, is not “required” at all. Strip all that nonsense away and what is left is Humanism which together with Science is all we ever needed. 

Sorry but there are so many inaccuracies in your posts, that I'd have to write a book to reply. 

Let me just say that you don't understand what I'm saying ????

[KhunLA]

13 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Jesus teaching was not really any new at the time and easy to connections to other religions, philosophies and also early mythology. Jesus become what he is today, because of the myth people around him created as a rock star if you can say! 

Agree, Jesus, Buddha and ect ect simply 'taught' which should have been common decency, and try to extend it to your fellow man/woman.  If you need to be taught that, then you're a bit lost to begin with.

[Photoguy21]

On 4/14/2019 at 9:55 PM, marcusarelus said:

Harvey the rabbit and Bokononism because a drunk in a bar in New Orleans a long time ago told me to.  

He is wrong it was in NYC

[mauGR1]

3 minutes ago, Photoguy21 said:

He is wrong it was in NYC

I think the poster you're replying to has disappeared since about 3 years.

Just sayin????

[Hummin]

9 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

I used the term "journalist " to subtly imply that, like modern journalists, many "historians" of ancient times were in the pocket of the rulers.

Glad you appreciate my subtlety, or maybe you didn't? ????

As said, nothing new, everything is made for a reason even in presence as history. 
 

Easy to understand why he became fascinated by the story of Jesus, and others found his discoveries useful. 
 

The greatest power of religion, is the political convenience of its nature for used by politicians. Not all of it is negative, and we do not know the outcome if there was not such tools available. 

[mauGR1]

1 minute ago, Hummin said:

The greatest power of religion, is the political convenience of its nature for used by politicians. Not all of it is negative, and we do not know the outcome if there was not such tools available. 

This is for me a very interesting subject for a debate, and we've been through it quite a few times.

In my opinion, religion, and even the dreaded organized religion has positive and negative aspects.

We could say the same about civilization, there are positives and negatives. 

Personally i try to see the glass half full, instead of half empty, but that's just a point of view.

 

[Hummin]

13 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

This is for me a very interesting subject for a debate, and we've been through it quite a few times.

In my opinion, religion, and even the dreaded organized religion has positive and negative aspects.

We could say the same about civilization, there are positives and negatives. 

Personally i try to see the glass half full, instead of half empty, but that's just a point of view.

 

The nature of Jin Yang ????

[mauGR1]

3 minutes ago, Hummin said:

The nature of Jin Yang ????

Yep, even our troubled planet may look perfect if looking at it from some distance ????

[Hummin]

3 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Yep, even our troubled planet may look perfect if looking at it from some distance ????

I have no problem to look at our planet as perfect, and how nature have developed in a perfect way, and we as living beings, doing exactly what nature formed us to do. We are now just in a critical phase for our self as to many human beings on this planet, but nature or god will finely manage that to. 

 

With or without  humans on  this planet, it will either be a paradise for some, and catastrophic for others, thats the nature of the forces and creation of life how it is designed to be, or how it became with a consensus god or without a consensus god. 

 

[mauGR1]

4 minutes ago, Hummin said:

I have no problem to look at our planet as perfect, and how nature have developed in a perfect way, and we as living beings, doing exactly what nature formed us to do. We are now just in a critical phase for our self as to many human beings on this planet, but nature or god will finely manage that to. 

 

With or without  humans on  this planet, it will either be a paradise for some, and catastrophic for others, thats the nature of the forces and creation of life how it is designed to be, or how it became with a consensus god or without a consensus god. 

 

That's more or less very similar to my point of view.

As humans though, we have the power to use a loving attitude,  and try to make things better. 

This is imho the message of Jesus. 

Easier said than done, obviously.

[Photoguy21]

1 hour ago, mauGR1 said:

I think the poster you're replying to has disappeared since about 3 years.

Just sayin????

You could well be correct

[mauGR1]

Just now, Photoguy21 said:

You could well be correct

You're welcome. 

[TropicalGuy]

1 hour ago, mauGR1 said:

Sorry but there are so many inaccuracies in your posts, that I'd have to write a book to reply. 

Let me just say that you don't understand what I'm saying ????

Understand sufficiently to challenge your irrational “faith”. For the record & possible benefit of others here. You appear a lost cause to reason & science so hereby dismissed. ????

[TropicalGuy]

1 hour ago, Hummin said:

I have no problem to look at our planet as perfect, and how nature have developed in a perfect way, and we as living beings, doing exactly what nature formed us to do. We are now just in a critical phase for our self as to many human beings on this planet, but nature or god will finely manage that to. 

 

With or without  humans on  this planet, it will either be a paradise for some, and catastrophic for others, thats the nature of the forces and creation of life how it is designed to be, or how it became with a consensus god or without a consensus god. 

 

Good grief……religious simpletons abound here…..????????

[mauGR1]

4 minutes ago, TropicalGuy said:

Understand sufficiently to challenge your irrational “faith”. For the record & possible benefit of others here. You appear a lost cause to reason & science so hereby dismissed. ????

That's fair enough ????

[Hummin]

2 minutes ago, TropicalGuy said:

Good grief……religious simpletons abound here…..????????

It could be anything, and I do not claim anything else than that the nature itself is god be it a consensus or non consensus force which Im not able to understand or claim I know. Something created the whole thing as said, be it a creator or not, or ? 

[mauGR1]

5 minutes ago, Hummin said:

It could be anything, and I do not claim anything else than that the nature itself is god be it a consensus or non consensus force which Im not able to understand or claim I know. Something created the whole thing as said, be it a creator or not, or ? 

Maybe the big bang ????

[TropicalGuy]

1 hour ago, mauGR1 said:

This is for me a very interesting subject for a debate, and we've been through it quite a few times.

In my opinion, religion, and even the dreaded organized religion has positive and negative aspects.

We could say the same about civilization, there are positives and negatives. 

Personally i try to see the glass half full, instead of half empty, but that's just a point of view.

 

Right, so because religion has done a few good deeds (1% their output maybe) like taught nobles to read and fed a few hungry beggars ( on condition they convert of course????) that somehow excuses them from the massive other 99% evil abusive “ work” they have visited upon humanity ( all in the name of “ God” of course) ???????????? & apologized for in case of the pedo Catholic Priesthood. 

 

Religion is nonsense & evil & untruth,  so NOT remotely “like” Civilization.

It’s the complete opposite????

[Hummin]

1 minute ago, mauGR1 said:

Maybe the big bang ????

There was and there is many big bangs around in the universe, so it is playing a great role in creating the elements that is part of the  creation

[mauGR1]

3 minutes ago, TropicalGuy said:

Right, so because religion has done a few good deeds (1% their output maybe) like taught nobles to read and fed a few hungry beggars ( on condition they convert of course????) that somehow excuses them from the massive other 99% evil abusive “ work” they have visited upon humanity ( all in the name of “ God” of course) ???????????? & apologized for in case of the pedo Catholic Priesthood. 

 

Religion is nonsense & evil & untruth,  so NOT remotely “like” Civilization.

It’s the complete opposite????

Sorry if i ask, but have you been molested by a sneaky bishop, or just bitten by a tarantula or what..

What about studying some history, or do you think that we have come from cavemen to civilization in a blink of an eye..

Get a grip will you ????

[TropicalGuy]

2 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

This is simply not true and I will not stand by when this is passed off as a fact.
Not one single scientific fact has so far "disproven" the existence of a Higher Power. This is a fact. 
Before you make such baseless claims, you should first learn the difference between "God" and "religion". You don't even realize that there can be spiritual belief devoid of religious dogma.

There are several branches of science (Cognitive Neuroscience, Consciousness Research, Cognitive Psychology) that do indeed stretch beyond what is traditionally considered hard science and started to research consciousness. They are relatively new, but you gotta start somewhere. 
And guess what they are discovering? That there is mounting evidence that reality is more than what we consider real today.

This is the main problem with opinions here. Most of them are clueless about the topic, yet behave like the exact opposite.

I said “ tends” to disprove. simple ancient riddles easily disprove an almighty “god” ( “unbreakable stone” / You Tube). “ mounting evidence” ? Er no sorry ….. “ spiritual” means only non- religious “humanist “.  
Certainly no gene or science yet found for the “human spirit” but it will very probably be scientifically established as “evolutionary” like chemical brain reactions creating “god”, “after death experiences” and “extended reality”. 

[TropicalGuy]

15 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Sorry if i ask, but have you been molested by a sneaky bishop, or just bitten by a tarantula or what..

What about studying some history, or do you think that we have come from cavemen to civilization in a blink of an eye..

Get a grip will you ????

Civilization only ever held back by Religion, never advanced by it. History clearly shows that. 

[Hummin]

9 minutes ago, TropicalGuy said:

Civilization only ever held back by Religion, never advanced by it. History clearly shows that. 

You certainly know your history. 
 

This should please even a non believing man?

 

Yin and Yang. / (jɪn) / noun. two complementary principles of Chinese philosophy: Yin is negative, dark, and feminine, Yang positive, bright, and masculine. Their interaction is thought to maintain the harmony of the universe and to influence everything within it.

[mauGR1]

14 minutes ago, TropicalGuy said:

Civilization only ever held back by Religion, never advanced by it. History clearly shows that. 

Ok, whatever you want to believe. 

[Sunmaster]

Those who know nothing, shout the loudest....again...

 

The sad thing is that the more intelligent (or better informed) materialists/atheists here don't stand up for the truth, just because the guy likes to bash religion. But by failing to do so, they quietly associate with this kind of ignorance. 

One can be critical of organized religion (I certainly am), and at the same time appreciate it's value and benefits throughout history.

 

 

Edited May 27, 2022 by Sunmaster

[VincentRJ]

4 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

Fair enough,  my definition of God is the intelligent design, the set of rules which regulates the life of the visible ( and the invisible) in the universe .

We can study the laws of physics, but it's undeniable that they were there before the humans started studying them.

Intelligent design is what intelligent humans do. Those who have the intelligence, capability and motive can design all sorts of products, such as buildings, vehicles, TV sets, computers, planes, rockets that can transport men to the moon, and so on, and on.

 

I can appreciate the reason why so many people assume that there is an 'Intelligent Designer', of some type, who designed the entire universe. We humans design so many different products, using scientifically confirmed theories relating to the way we observe how nature and the universe works, therefore it's not entirely unreasonable for people to speculate that there might be some entity that created or designed us and the entire universe.

 

This could be described 'anthropomorphism', that is, the attribution of human characteristics or behaviour to a god, animal, or object.

 

We should also bear in mind that so-called 'Laws of Physics' are human constructs, and therefore such laws could not have existed before humans existed. All we can say is that such 'laws' appear to correctly represent the workings of our observable environment and haven't yet been falsified. In the past, many such laws have been frequently falsified, so we can expect that at least some of the current 'Laws of Physics' will be falsified, or modified, at some point in the future.

 

A good example, is the current explanation of the observed behaviour of the universe by hypothesising the existence of Dark Matter and Dark Energy, which hasn't yet been detected. The current 'Laws of Physics' cannot explain such observations. However, if we fail to detect such Dark Matter after many decades of research, a modification of existing 'so-called laws of physics' could take place.

 

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modified_Newtonian_dynamics

 

"Modified Newtonian dynamics (MOND) is a hypothesis that proposes a modification of Newton's law of universal gravitation to account for observed properties of galaxies. It is an alternative to the hypothesis of dark matter in terms of explaining why galaxies do not appear to obey the currently understood laws of physics."
 

[Pmbkk]

 

I have a picture of me and John Paul II in Rome - don't know whether it helped me or not ????

 

I personally believe treat people like you'd like to be treated..

[mauGR1]

4 minutes ago, VincentRJ said:

Intelligent design is what intelligent humans do. 

I really admire your passion for physics and other fields of science. 

However, you start your beatification of science with a lie.

A blatant lie.

Humans are intelligently designed themselves as far as i know, thus intelligent design exists on it's own.

[Hummin]

41 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

Those who know nothing, shout the loudest....again...

 

The sad thing is that the more intelligent (or better informed) materialists/atheists here don't stand up for the truth, just because the guy likes to bash religion. But by failing to do so, they quietly associate with this kind of ignorance. 

One can be critical of organized religion (I certainly am), and at the same time appreciate it's value and benefits throughout history.

 

 

There is those who is to shallow, and there is those you is to deep in to the big questions, and they exclude themselves from the point where it is possible to understand or the point of no reason to discuss. 
 

What I truly believes, is that the most shallow believer at one point will start to believe or want to believe because of unfortunate happenings in the world or maybe on the more personal level. 
 

Kings, Presidents, Prime ministers all of them embrace religion when critical times appear, so do most of the people through them as well. The belief in pragmatic science becomes a lesser substitute when hard times knock you down. 

[VincentRJ]

35 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Humans are intelligently designed themselves as far as i know, thus intelligent design exists on it's own.

The current war in Ukraine doesn't seem at all intelligent to me, nor the countless bloody wars in the past, involving terrible killing and rape of huge numbers of innocent women and children.