Do you believe in God and why

[Elad]

On 7/1/2019 at 7:41 AM, sweatalot said:

not only consciousness but everything derives from consciousness.

Everything is consciousness and created by consciousness.

Everything is an impermanent manifestation of permanent consciousness.

 

Nothing is eternal but consciousness.

Life or conscious matter couldn't exist in the early universe as it was too hot and dense for atoms to exist. It wasn't until 370,000 years after the big bang, the universe cooled enough for the first neutral atoms to form. Only hydrogen and helium formed and this wasn't enough complexity for any life to exist, the most complex molecule at that time would've been H_2.

 

For life to exist we needed the heavier elements we see today in the periodic table like oxygen, nitrogen, carbon or iron. 

It was only when the first stars lived and died that these elements that are essential for life would've been spewed across the universe from supernova explosions, and the resulting gas and dust (heavier elements) from nebulae can coalesce by gravity to form new stars and their planets.

 

Life as we know it is made from molecules based around atoms of carbon. Carbon has a valency of 4 and combines with other atoms and molecules very easily, which is why life can exist as we know it. 

 

It would've taken a couple of generations of stars before any life or conscious matter could exist. The first stars to have formed would have been 100 times the mass of our sun, and the large stars live fast and die young, so the elements needed for life could have been forged in just a few million years, which is the lifetime for the very largest stars.

 

  

[sweatalot]

1 hour ago, Elad said:

Life or conscious matter couldn't exist in the early universe as it was too hot and dense for atoms to exist. It wasn't until 370,000 years after the big bang, the universe cooled enough for the first neutral atoms to form. Only hydrogen and helium formed and this wasn't enough complexity for any life to exist, the most complex molecule at that time would've been H_2.

 

For life to exist we needed the heavier elements we see today in the periodic table like oxygen, nitrogen, carbon or iron. 

It was only when the first stars lived and died that these elements that are essential for life would've been spewed across the universe from supernova explosions, and the resulting gas and dust (heavier elements) from nebulae can coalesce by gravity to form new stars and their planets.

 

Life as we know it is made from molecules based around atoms of carbon. Carbon has a valency of 4 and combines with other atoms and molecules very easily, which is why life can exist as we know it. 

 

It would've taken a couple of generations of stars before any life or conscious matter could exist. The first stars to have formed would have been 100 times the mass of our sun, and the large stars live fast and die young, so the elements needed for life could have been forged in just a few million years, which is the lifetime for the very largest stars.

 

  

consciousness is first and all that is. consciousness does not need matter it is not a product of matter - just the other way round. 

The universe with its matter and everything is just a product of consciousness, another form of consciousness

Edited July 11, 2019 by sweatalot

[CMNightRider]

12 hours ago, partington said:

The first gospel, Mark, was written around AD 70 , that is about 40 years after the death of Jesus.

 This is about as long after Jesus' death as today is after the death of Elvis.

 

 If I wrote an account of  Elvis' life today, and included in it five separate occasions where I claimed he had  prophesied the exact mode of his death ("you know fellas, I say unto you,  I'm gonna die on the toilet, in a rather tasteless mansion")  many years before, how on earth would you be able to tell whether I had just made it up, given that I already know what happened to him?

 

The point of a prophecy is to write it before the event it prophesies happened, not forty years afterwards!

 

Why are the Bible prophecies of Jesus Christ's death so important? The Old Testament contains well over 100 distinct prophecies about Jesus (a conservative estimate). Many of these Messianic prophecies deal with His death. It is a powerful evidence of the accuracy of the Bible and its divine inspiration. Even though these prophecies were written by several different men over many years, they were divinely fulfilled! Here are a handful of the Messianic prophecies and fulfillments. 

• Bible Prophecy: Isaiah 53:3 says, "He was despised and rejected by men, a man of sorrows, and familiar with suffering. Like one from whom men hide their faces he was despised, and we esteemed him not."
• Fulfillment: John 1:10-11 says, "He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him."
   
• Bible Prophecy: Psalm 41:9 says, "Even my close friend, whom I trusted, he who shared my bread, has lifted up his heel against me."
• Fulfillment: Mark 14:10 says, "Then Judas Iscariot, one of the Twelve, went to the chief priests to betray Jesus to them."
   
• Bible Prophecy: Zechariah 11:12 says, "I told them, 'If you think it best, give me my pay; but if not, keep it.' So they paid me thirty pieces of silver."
• Fulfillment: Matthew 26:14-16 says, "Then one of the Twelve - the one called Judas Iscariot - went to the chief priests and asked, 'What are you willing to give me if I hand him over to you?' So they counted out for him thirty silver coins."
   
• Bible Prophecy: Isaiah 53:7 says, "He was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; he was led like a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is silent, so he did not open his mouth."
• Fulfillment: Mark 15:5 says, "But Jesus still made no reply, and Pilate was amazed."
   
• Bible Prophecy: Psalm 22:1-2 says, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? Why are you so far from saving me, so far from the words of my groaning? O my God, I cry out by day, but you do not answer, by night, and am not silent."
• Fulfillment: Matthew 27:46 says, "About the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, 'Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?' - which means, 'My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?'"
   
• Bible Prophecy: Psalm 22:7-8 says, "All who see me mock me; they hurl insults, shaking their heads: 'He trusts in the LORD; let the LORD rescue him. Let him deliver him, since he delights in him.'"
• Fulfillment: Matthew 27:41-44 says, "In the same way the chief priests, the teachers of the law and the elders mocked him. 'He saved others,' they said, 'but he can't save himself! He's the King of Israel! Let him come down now from the cross, and we will believe in him. He trusts in God. Let God rescue him now if he wants him, for he said, I am the Son of God.' In the same way the robbers who were crucified with him also heaped insults on him."
   
• Bible Prophecy: Psalm 22:15 says, "My strength is dried up like a potsherd, and my tongue sticks to the roof of my mouth; you lay me in the dust of death."
• Fulfillment: Matthew 27:48 says, "Immediately one of them ran and got a sponge. He filled it with wine vinegar, put it on a stick, and offered it to Jesus to drink."
   
• Bible Prophecy: Psalm 22:17-18 says, "I can count all my bones; people stare and gloat over me. They divide my garments among them and cast lots for my clothing."
• Fulfillment: John 19:23 says, "When the soldiers crucified Jesus, they took his clothes, dividing them into four shares, one for each of them, with the undergarment remaining. This garment was seamless, woven in one piece from top to bottom."

 

[CMNightRider]

Does it matter if Jesus really did and said what is in the Gospels?

Yes. For faith to really be of any value, it must be based on facts, on reality. Here is why. If you were taking a flight to London, you would probably have faith that the jet is fueled and mechanically reliable, the pilot trained, and no terrorists on board. Your faith, however, is not what gets you to London. Your faith is useful in that it got you on the plane. But what actually gets you to London is the integrity of the plane, pilot, etc. You could rely on your positive experience of past flights. But your positive experience would not be enough to get that plane to London. What matters is the object of your faith -- is it reliable?

 

Is the New Testament an accurate, reliable presentation of Jesus? Yes. We can trust the New Testament because there is enormous factual support for it. This article touched on the following points: historians concur, archaeology concurs, the four Gospel biographies are in agreement, the preservation of document copies is remarkable, there is superior accuracy in the translations. All of this gives a solid foundation for believing that what we read today is what the original writers wrote and experienced in real life, in real places.

 

John, one of the writers sums it up well, "Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name."¹²

 

[Nemises]

^Amen to that Father.
Now, turn on the footy and gimme a beer...for God’s sake.

[notmyself]

On 7/12/2019 at 12:37 AM, sweatalot said:

consciousness is first and all that is. consciousness does not need matter it is not a product of matter - just the other way round. 

The universe with its matter and everything is just a product of consciousness, another form of consciousness

 

I'd be very interested to know where you get your data from in order to make such a claim. 

 

 

[StreetCowboy]

On 7/12/2019 at 7:37 AM, sweatalot said:

consciousness is first and all that is. consciousness does not need matter it is not a product of matter - just the other way round. 

The universe with its matter and everything is just a product of consciousness, another form of consciousness

I’m glad that we’re getting on to more alternative faith scenarios, but I’m more glad that it’s started to rain, and I may be stuck in the pub some time.

[StreetCowboy]

On 7/12/2019 at 6:25 AM, Elad said:

Life or conscious matter couldn't exist in the early universe as it was too hot and dense for atoms to exist. It wasn't until 370,000 years after the big bang, the universe cooled enough for the first neutral atoms to form. Only hydrogen and helium formed and this wasn't enough complexity for any life to exist, the most complex molecule at that time would've been H_2.

 

For life to exist we needed the heavier elements we see today in the periodic table like oxygen, nitrogen, carbon or iron. 

It was only when the first stars lived and died that these elements that are essential for life would've been spewed across the universe from supernova explosions, and the resulting gas and dust (heavier elements) from nebulae can coalesce by gravity to form new stars and their planets.

 

Life as we know it is made from molecules based around atoms of carbon. Carbon has a valency of 4 and combines with other atoms and molecules very easily, which is why life can exist as we know it. 

 

It would've taken a couple of generations of stars before any life or conscious matter could exist. The first stars to have formed would have been 100 times the mass of our sun, and the large stars live fast and die young, so the elements needed for life could have been forged in just a few million years, which is the lifetime for the very largest stars.

 

  

That’s an interesting theory, and I am sure that it can be used to explain certain results that scientists have obtained, and I am confident that your faith allows you to argue vociferously that it is true.

 

Do you think it is compatible or incompatible with the belief that there is a God who created the universe?

[StreetCowboy]

On 7/12/2019 at 7:37 AM, sweatalot said:

consciousness is first and all that is. consciousness does not need matter it is not a product of matter - just the other way round. 

The universe with its matter and everything is just a product of consciousness, another form of consciousness

Does your consciousness and my consciousness share the same matter?

 

Do you believe that for every element of matter, there is an equal and opposite quantity of doesn't-matter?

Similarly, consciousness and unconsciousness?
If so, someone somewhere on a life support machine should've perked up for half an hour on my behalf while I was in the Bierhaus last Saturday.

 

Up till now, this thread has been a bit Monty Python, but I'd like to be more fundamentalist, a bit more Goon Show.

[notmyself]

15 hours ago, StreetCowboy said:

 

Up till now, this thread has been a bit Monty Python, but I'd like to be more fundamentalist, a bit more Goon Show.

 

Some of the views put forward have been interesting in a psychological aspect. 

[owl sees all]

4 hours ago, notmyself said:

 

Some of the views put forward have been interesting in a psychological aspect. 

We (our group of friends), made up a religion in 1968. It was centered around a drink called 'Stingo', which was a barley wine, and naturally enough the religion was was called 'Stingo'. At the famous 'Round House' in Dagenham, where groups such as The Rolling Stones and The Tremeloes performed, we laid down the rules, which are still on the wall to this day; 50 years later.

 

When the congregation met in the public bar, we would all chip in some dosh, and someone would go get a big box of chocolates. Anyone who wanted to speak, had to eat a chockie and swig his Stingo, otherwise he/she wouldn't be taken seriously. Our religion never blossomed outside the pub. Probably 'cause the Robin Hood, just down Lodge Avenue, was a Whitbread house and didn't sell Stingo.

 

Some of the rules roughly incorporated the Christian's 10 commandments; but not the ones about coveting your neighbor's goats, chopping off hands for getting caught scrumping.or extracting people's teeth, for telling porkies. On reflection, I think we got it about right. The one regret i have about those times was that we should have called the religion 'Ognits' (Stingo spelled backwards). It would have led to a wider appeal. I often think about that.

 

Well, we got older, as you do, and some left the religion. But, it is still fondly remembered by the guys at the Round House. Many are in their 60s and 70s now. I'll try to recall the rules and post them later.

 

Walking home after prayer could be a challenge. Worship seemed great in those days.

Edited July 15, 2019 by owl sees all

[sweatalot]

49 minutes ago, owl sees all said:

Walking home after prayer could be a challenge. Worship seemed great in those days.

[CMNightRider]

How the books of the New Testament were determined.

The early church accepted the New Testament books almost as soon as they were written. It’s already been mentioned that the writers were friends of Jesus or his immediate followers, men to whom Jesus had entrusted the leadership of the early church. The Gospel writers Matthew and John were some of Jesus' closest followers. Mark and Luke were companions of the apostles, having access to the apostles' account of Jesus' life.

 

The other New Testament writers had immediate access to Jesus as well: James and Jude were half-brothers of Jesus who initially did not believe in him. Peter was one of the 12 apostles. Paul started out as a violent opponent of Christianity and a member of the religious ruling class, but he became an ardent follower of Jesus, convinced that Jesus rose from the dead.

The reports in the New Testament books lined up with what thousands of eyewitnesses had seen for themselves.

 

When other books were written hundreds of years later, it wasn't difficult for the church to spot them as forgeries. For example, the Gospel of Judas was written by the Gnostic sect, around 130-170 A.D., long after Judas' death. The Gospel of Thomas, written around 140 A.D., is another example of a counterfeit writing erroneously bearing an apostles' name. These and other Gnostic gospels conflicted with the known teachings of Jesus and the Old Testament, and often contained numerous historical and geographical errors.⁷

 

In A.D. 367, Athanasius formally listed the 27 New Testament books (the same list that we have today). Soon after, Jerome and Augustine circulated this same list. These lists, however, were not necessary for the majority of Christians. By and large the whole church had recognized and used the same list of books since the first century after Christ.

 

As the church grew beyond the Greek-speaking lands and needed to translate the Scriptures, and as splinter sects continued to pop up with their own competing holy books, it became more important to have a definitive list.

[Elad]

On 7/14/2019 at 7:42 AM, StreetCowboy said:

That’s an interesting theory, and I am sure that it can be used to explain certain results that scientists have obtained, and I am confident that your faith allows you to argue vociferously that it is true.

 

Do you think it is compatible or incompatible with the belief that there is a God who created the universe?

Whether God exist or not doesn't change how the universe evolves, and it doesn't change our current understanding of how the universe works. There's no evidence either way as to whether God or creator exists or not, but, from our current knowledge and understanding of the universe through natural sciences, nothing so far points in the direction of God or a superior being as the creator.

 

Science so far has failed to provide us with any direct answers to 'how' and 'why' the universe began, and ultimately how it will end. However, scientists on their quest to solving the mystery of how it all started, have made some great discoveries along the way which allows most of us to live our lives more comfortably.

 

For example, the study of quantum physics over the last 100 years or so has allowed us to develop most of the technology we see today, such as radio, television, telephone, computers, smartphones, navigation devices etc... and it took us into the internet age.

 

Also, our current understanding of gravity using Newton's law's and Einstein's general relativity has allowed us to launch satellites in orbit around the Earth, such as communication satellites, navigation satellites, telescopes, weather satellites etc...

 

On my last visit to Thailand i drove from chon buri to a remote village on the outskirts of buriram and was guided there using my smartphone via a signal from a few navigation satellites in Earths orbit, and we arrived at the front door of our in law's house. We take these things for granted now, but what made it possible is our current understanding of how the universe works.

 

So, we shouldn't criticise scientists for their work in trying to solve the mystery of how the universe began, because without them, then this chat forum wouldn't even exist and we wouldn't be having this wonderful discussion on the topic of "Do you believe in God, and why"         

 

 

[rvaviator]

When considering how life began, there are only two options.  Either life was created by an intelligent source (God) or it began by natural processes.

 

No mechanism by which non-living matter can randomly spark itself into life has ever been demonstrated.  Information must come from a source of information.

 

Since God created the universe, and he said He did it in 6 days about 6,000 years ago, it does make perfect sense.  For those who believe nothing created everything, you have until your last breath to figure this out.  Once you die it is a done deal.

Who created God ?


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[CMNightRider]

12 hours ago, rvaviator said:

Who created God ?


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

No one made the Creator of the universe.  He had no beginning, and will have no ending.  He is the eternal, self-existing Being. Here is what the Bible says about who made God: God is eternal. God is everlasting in nature (Isa. 40:28), which is to say, he is eternal as to his very essence (Rom. 16:26; 1 Tim. 1:17).

[yodsak]

13 hours ago, rvaviator said:

Who created God ?


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

All current evidence points to the conclusion that man created gods, all gods not just ''your'' god.

[StreetCowboy]

1 hour ago, CMNightRider said:

No one made the Creator of the universe.  He had no beginning, and will have no ending.  He is the eternal, self-existing Being. Here is what the Bible says about who made God: God is eternal. God is everlasting in nature (Isa. 40:28), which is to say, he is eternal as to his very essence (Rom. 16:26; 1 Tim. 1:17).

Same as the Universe, then. Does God wax and wane as the Universe explodes and collapses?

 

Neil Gaiman postulated in his novel American Gods that gods waxed and waned with the fervour of their faithful, from which one might infer that our monotheistic One True God may be drifting Mohammaden-wise

[Date Masamune]

Is Jesus God, as he claimed?

 

Jesus' supreme evidence of deity was his own resurrection from the dead.  Five times in the course of his life, Jesus clearly predicted he would die, and in what specific way he would be killed, and that three days later, after being buried, he would rise from the dead.

 

Surely this was the great test.  It was a claim that was easy to verify.  It would either happen or not.  It would either confirm his stated identity or destroy it.  And significant for you and me, Jesus' rising from the dead would verify or make laughable statements such as these:

 

"I am the way, the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father except through me."²³  "I am the light of the world.  He who follows me will not live in darkness, but will have the light of life."²⁴  For those who believe in him, "I give them eternal life..."²⁵

So by his own words, he offers this proof,  ""The Son of Man is going to be delivered into the hands of men, and they will kill him. And when he is killed, after three days he will rise."²⁶

The greatest scam in history is this false claim of salvation, which is in reality spiritual death.

This next one is the second greatest in history, resurrection. Never happened, Jesus just another dupe of the Weakling God of the Israelites, a fairy tale spread by his subsequent stooges and dumb devotees. The Bibble? A book of lies. Not even lord DAGON can animate a human carcass scourged and beaten to pulp by Roman legions then crucified.

 

Internal life only comes by allegiance to DAGON.

 

HAIL DAGON!

 

 

 

[gomangosteen]

17 minutes ago, Date Masamune said:

Internal life only comes by allegiance to DAGON.

 

HAIL DAGON!

 

So to summarise, your answer to the question would be 'no'

Best wishes for what remains of your own 'internal life' ... 

 

 

[Date Masamune]

So to summarise, your answer to the question would be 'no'
Best wishes for what remains of your own 'internal life' ... 
 
 

We don’t expect internet postings to be Shakespearean epics and spelling can’t be edited after a while. There are hundreds of gods maybe thousands. The god of the Israelites is weak,
a trickster who steals souls to sustain his facade. Hypocrites, liars, criminals, makes no difference. To know the true master is to know DAGON! His standard the Trident upon which impales a sacrificial fish. His avatar, a SEETHING BASELISK.

DAGON is not for the weak, or lazy. Do good on the Earth! Turn away from the light. Give your soul to DAGON. Hail DAGON!

[notmyself]

33 minutes ago, Date Masamune said:

The greatest scam in history is this false claim of salvation, which is in reality spiritual death.

 

Both spiritual and religious death as the only difference is who made it up Some believe theirs while others believe others.

 

 

33 minutes ago, Date Masamune said:

This next one is the second greatest in history, resurrection.

 

Commonplace at the time of the resurrection so proves what? I think it's in Matthew (member CMN will know) where during the resection all the graves opened and all the occupants were seen going about greeting people and/or swanning about town, depending on the translation.

 

I'm on holiday so will go find it myself.

 

Matthew 27:52-53 King James Version (KJV)

⁵² And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

⁵³ And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+27:52-53&version=KJV

 

So a number of walking dead.

 

 

 

 

 

[VincentRJ]

23 minutes ago, Date Masamune said:

DAGON. Hail DAGON!

 

Nice photo. Was this taken at Lumpini Park in Bangkok?

[Date Masamune]

Why do you think the REPTILE is so numerous?

DAGON is everywhere. He is right there with you now, just above your left shoulder.

 

HARKEN to his infernal hissing!

[Date Masamune]

 
Commonplace at the time of the resurrection so proves what? I think it's in Matthew (member CMN will know) where during the resection all the graves opened and all the occupants were seen going about greeting people and/or swanning about town, depending on the translation.
 
I'm on holiday so will go find it myself.
 

Matthew 27:52-53 King James Version (KJV)

⁵² And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

⁵³ And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+27:52-53&version=KJV
 
So a number of walking dead.
 
 
 
 
 

Why quote a discredited book of lies?

[Nemises]

And a “higher power” is also BS.

The only higher power is one’s conscience.

 

[Denim]

4 minutes ago, Date Masamune said:

Why quote this? A book of lies no rational person bothers with.

 

On a par with the Koran then. Another book of fiction with about as much credibility.

[sweatalot]

12 minutes ago, Nemises said:

And a “higher power” is also BS.

The only higher power is one’s conscience.

 

you are so right

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎7‎/‎14‎/‎2019 at 12:25 PM, notmyself said:

 

I'd be very interested to know where you get your data from in order to make such a claim. 

 

 

It's self evident, and you won't find any scientific paper on the subject, because it's unprovable.

Previous poster said that certain elements are necessary for life, so where did those elements originate? Know that and you know "God".

[Date Masamune]

 

On a par with the Koran then. Another book of fiction with about as much credibility.

I’m not familiar with the Holy Koran but the 5 pillars of Islam are completely innocuous and especially the first, Shahaddah, is enough to protect your soul from spiritual destruction in an entrapment by the God of the Israelites and his deadly light.