E85 vs E91 or E95

[passiflora]

Hello to all

I just bought a new Toyota Vios 

The motor is compatible E85

The price is very attractive (21.44) but consumes more than 8. 5l/100 km

What do you think, is it better to fill up with this E85 or E95 or E91

Thanks in advance for your advices

[passiflora]

27 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

How about looking in the manual?

Or talk to Toyota?

 

Or do you really prefer advice from the Thai Visa experts?

Maybe you should try diesel and see how it works. And then, when you visit the Toyota garage, you can tell them you got that advise on Thai Visa...

Wow that à very good advice, 

Frankly to say such things, better to abstain

[johng]

I would use the cheapest fuel...that would be E85..but if not available then use either E91 or E95

definitely don't use diesel !

[worrab]

I can use 85 or 91, but find as most do, that fuel consumption drops when using 85. So at them moment, as I am covering mileage, I use 91. This is with a Honda Jazz by the way. Difference is about 5 kms per litre and A/C always on. 

[jackdd]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol_fuel

Ethanol fuel has a "gasoline gallon equivalency" (GGE) value of 1.5, i.e. to replace the energy of 1 volume of gasoline, 1.5 times the volume of ethanol is needed.

So if i'm not mistaken the calculation should look like this (85% ethanol, 15% gasoline vs. 10% ethanol and 90% gasoline):

x = y*((85/1.5+15)/(10/1.5+90))

y = price of gasohol

If the E85 price is lower than the x from this equation E85 offers the better energy / cost ratio, if it's higher then Gasohol is better

Currently this site here: http://www.pttplc.com/en/getoilprice.aspx

Shows Gasohol 91 at 28.98 and E85 at 20.84

Using the equation from before: 28.98*((85/1.5+15)/(10/1.5+90)) = 21.485

So with these prices by using E85 you get slightly more energy per baht

[CharlieH]

Off topic posts removed.

[ktm jeff]

1 hour ago, jackdd said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol_fuel

 

 

So if i'm not mistaken the calculation should look like this (85% ethanol, 15% gasoline vs. 10% ethanol and 90% gasoline):

x = y*((85/1.5+15)/(10/1.5+90))

y = price of gasohol

If the E85 price is lower than the x from this equation E85 offers the better energy / cost ratio, if it's higher then Gasohol is better

Currently this site here: http://www.pttplc.com/en/getoilprice.aspx

Shows Gasohol 91 at 28.98 and E85 at 20.84

Using the equation from before: 28.98*((85/1.5+15)/(10/1.5+90)) = 21.485

So with these prices by using E85 you get slightly more energy per baht

Another way to work it out is Ethanol has 60% the energy of gasoline. E10 is 90% gasoline + 10% ethanol , so 96% energy. ( 90% + 0.6 of 10% ). E 85 is 15% gasoline + 85% ethanol , so 66% energy. ( 15% + 0.6 of 85% ). This means E10 has just over 45% more energy , per liter , than E85. So if E 10 is priced at 45% or less than E 85 , it gives better energy per Baht.  The problems with the harvesting , conversion and production of Ethanol , not to mention its total carbon footprint , makes Ethanol a very poor choice for the environment , not to mention the long term problems associated with its use and water absorption.

[Thomas J]

E85 is only 85% gas.  Tests show it gets about 26% fewer miles/km  per gallon/litre than regular octane gas.  Additionally, many mechanics cite engine deterioration with ethanol vs. gasoline.  The higher the number E95 the higher the pure gas content. I would skip the E85

[Kwasaki]

4 hours ago, passiflora said:

What do you think, is it better to fill up with this E85 or E95 or E91

[hkt83100]

To add to the confusion: I am using E20 in my Avanza. It is much cheaper than 91, but available at most gas stations. While the consumption went up slightly from 91, overall it is the cheaper solution. The loss in power is almost negligible and I am happy with the performance. You should give it a try, your Vios should be fine with it. E85 is no option for the Avanza, at least for my 2014 model.

Drive safely all times, good luck!

[naboo]

So much confusion on this thread!

 

There are four ethanol/gasoline blends available in Thailand:

 

E85 = 85% Ethanol, 15% Gasoline

E20 = 20% Ethanol, 80% Gasoline

E10 = 10% Ethanol, 90% Gasoline

Gasoline = 0% Ethanol, 100% Gasoline

 

E85 is cheapest and contains least energy. Gasoline is most expensive and not commonly available. 

 

The ethanol content also effects the RON rating (octane content). For simplification we'll say E20 and E85 are only available in RON95. Most of what is sold is E10 and advertised as 91 or 95. These numbers refer to the octane content (note - not percentages, in other countries 101 and 103 (and others) are available). I'm not sure why they don't phase out 91 completely as the price is virtually the same as 95 and anything that can run on 91 can run on 95 (with vice-versa not true, my '04 Ford Laser only runs on 95).

 

Diesel will be in the news shortly with them increasing the biofuel content from B7 to B10 - 7% to 10%.

[johng]

5 hours ago, naboo said:

my '04 Ford Laser only runs on 95

I had one of them too.

 

 

 

Edited April 19, 2019 by johng

[ktm jeff]

Naboo.Your list is correct , but my explanation was of the energy contained in a liter of fuel , of the different types. E 20 is a compromise for SOME cars , of later years , but still  has less energy than E10. Hence the higher consumption , and reduced power mentioned by hkt83100 .The bio-fuel diesel is a big problem , waiting to hit the fan. If you think of the planned increase of Bio "fuel" as the Ethanol of diesel , you can see the problems that is going to cause.  All thanks to all the misinformation from the sandal wearing tree-huggers.

[Retfed50]

On 4/18/2019 at 6:47 PM, Thomas J said:

E85 is only 85% gas.  Tests show it gets about 26% fewer miles/km  per gallon/litre than regular octane gas.  Additionally, many mechanics cite engine deterioration with ethanol vs. gasoline.  The higher the number E95 the higher the pure gas content. I would skip the E85

E85 is only 15% gasoline and 85% ethanol(hence, the "E"). The higher the number, the less gas. The 91 and 95 refer to the octane ratings and not the ethanol content. Both are 10% ethanol. 

[swissbie]

8,5L/100Km for a Vios? I drive a Civic 2016 (1800cc) and am using E85 only. Absolutely no problem with the performance. Drove recently from southern parts of Songkhla Province to BKK and back: 6,5L/100Km (ok, that's with only a small percentage of city traffic). I like and prefer E85, as well from the economical as from the ecological point of view.

[Tuvoc]

The Ocat

On 4/19/2019 at 1:40 AM, naboo said:

I'm not sure why they don't phase out 91 completely as the price is virtually the same as 95 and anything that can run on 91 can run on 95 (with vice-versa not true, my '04 Ford Laser only runs on 95).

 

 

E20 has an Octane rating of more than 95 ?  If so then I wonder if they may have long term plans to phase out both 91 and 95 gasohol in favour of E20 ? Problem there is many cars won't tolerate 20% Ethanol so would be forced off the road, and then could they supply enough E20.

[natway09]

I use E 20 & every 4th fill burn out the cylinders with 91.

Works for me (Honda Civic 7 years old)

[transam]

32 minutes ago, Tuvoc said:

The Ocat

 

E20 has an Octane rating of more than 95 ?  If so then I wonder if they may have long term plans to phase out both 91 and 95 gasohol in favour of E20 ? Problem there is many cars won't tolerate 20% Ethanol so would be forced off the road, and then could they supply enough E20.

PTT is increasing it's E20 output nationwide...

[bbz404]

On 4/19/2019 at 7:40 AM, naboo said:

So much confusion on this thread!

 

There are four ethanol/gasoline blends available in Thailand:

 

E85 = 85% Ethanol, 15% Gasoline

E20 = 20% Ethanol, 80% Gasoline

E10 = 10% Ethanol, 90% Gasoline

Gasoline = 0% Ethanol, 100% Gasoline

 

E85 is cheapest and contains least energy. Gasoline is most expensive and not commonly available. 

 

The ethanol content also effects the RON rating (octane content). For simplification we'll say E20 and E85 are only available in RON95. Most of what is sold is E10 and advertised as 91 or 95. These numbers refer to the octane content (note - not percentages, in other countries 101 and 103 (and others) are available). I'm not sure why they don't phase out 91 completely as the price is virtually the same as 95 and anything that can run on 91 can run on 95 (with vice-versa not true, my '04 Ford Laser only runs on 95).

 

Diesel will be in the news shortly with them increasing the biofuel content from B7 to B10 - 7% to 10%.

 

Thank you for clarifying that. Didn’t know that it was so confusing to people to distinguish between octane rating and ethanol percentages. 

 

I would like to add though that the ethanol percentages are “maximum” figures meaning that any percentage up to that figure may be ethanol in what you buy. I’ve had cases where I filled up the car with E85 and had similar consumption as with E20. Then agin, other times consumption increased significantly when ethanol content was higher. 

 

Also, people should keep in mind that current flex fuel cars can mix and match (as I explain to my Thai friends frequently). You don’t need to empty a tank of E85 completely before replacing it with 95 gasohol for example. Flex fuel means just that: the engine is fine with all concentrations of ethanol up to 85%. 

[xtrnuno41]

Yes they put alcohol in it to cut down on CO2 emission.

ALcohol is made mostly from fermentation of for instance sugar.

Yes it uses more in running, as gasoline is higher carbon then alcohol, so more power. E 85 you are running almost on alcohol.

Diesel , you can mix additional other oil to it. What they first already did, as you could run a diesel on frying oil. So there were diesel cars running on old oil from food shops. EU made the frying oil more expensive.

Otherwise they lose money. 

SOmewhere there is an engine it can run on anything. the patens are bought by a stupid Belgian and is doing nothing with it.

[Coremouse]

PTT advertises their E20 as 98-99RON that would be great for old performance cars.

 

Problem is, while E10s are mostly safe to old car I've heard big rubber chunks out of fuel filter for as low as 40% percent concentration. So whether E20 is a happy middle or quite dangerous, really depend on particular car I think...

 

Pro is E20 wouldn't affect air fuel ratio too much like E85, so most likely PTFE braided lines, E85 pump & filter are everything needed to run E20. Which I planned to do in near future... 

 

 

[Rawairat]

My experience with a new Honda Jazz is the E85 saving is very little if any from using 91, so I have stuck to 91. The Honda also has an green Eco button which does not seem to make much difference, this is around town and maybe I am not an eco driver?

[Tuvoc]

49 minutes ago, Rawairat said:

My experience with a new Honda Jazz is the E85 saving is very little if any from using 91, so I have stuck to 91. eco driver?

Why not E20 ?

[myshem]

On 4/18/2019 at 3:42 PM, passiflora said:

Wow that à very good advice, 

Frankly to say such things, better to abstain

Maybe you could also, if you cannot accept the only smart reply that you got.

 

but why is there nothing between 20% and 85% ethanol ? like 50% ethanol ?

 

 

 

Edited April 21, 2019 by myshem