Time to have my first A/C unit installed – looking for advice

[Crossy]

Since we are talking about AVRs there's a pinned thread about sizing and installing the beasties.

 

 

 

 

[bankruatsteve]

34 minutes ago, MrScratch said:

 

Would installing a standard non Inverter A/C unit even though the electrical running costs may be higher than an Inverter A/C unit, be better in the knowledge that a standard A/C unit would be less susceptible to the house power cuts , voltage fluctuation and spikes.

 

Thought , would Inverter A/C units run quieter than normal non Inverter units ?

Where are you getting the information that non-inverter is better with dodgy electrics?  While I cannot find any authoritative study, I doubt that is true.  What makes sense to me is that something with more electronics is going to handle things better.

 

And yes, "inverter" units are much quieter than normal units.

 

Edit:  I've said it before... IMO "inverter" AC, refrigerator, washer, what else? will be the NORMAL within a few years, if not already.  I just hope they come up with a better term than "inverter".

Edited April 20, 2019 by bankruatsteve

[donim]

13 minutes ago, khunPer said:

I have (very) bad voltage, but very good experience with inverter aircons, using less power (I use Mitsubishi "Mr. Slim"). However, you'll need a phase protector and a magnetic switch that switch off the aircon unit(s) if voltage goes below, or above, 15% of 220 volt, i.e. the units will work from around 190 volt to 250 volt. You can make different settings for both low and high voltage, but maximum is 18% on the units I know. Cut-off time can be set from 1 minute to 5 minutes.

 

 

Interessting.

Did you change the setup between the indoor and outdoor unit too? So that only the outdoor unit is shutted down (hence the compressor stops) but the indoor still working, the cold still have to get out of the unit.

Repeatly cutting the power can be destroing, had a blown compressor here.

I can imagine the cut-off time is preventing that issue.

The AC here is now working as a normal air blower, the outdoor unit is disconnected.

[NanLaew]

21 hours ago, bankruatsteve said:

I'm of the opinion that the voltage "worry" for inverter units is based more on hyperbole than actual statistics (if there are any statistics).

House supply can drop to around 180 V in the evenings.

 

Installed a Hitachi non-inverter in one bedroom this time last year and it still cools through the low-voltage early evening.

 

Installed an LG double-inverter last month in the other bedroom and it will sometimes try to cool if it is turned on early evening and before the Hitachi is. Otherwise, it's just a 15,000 baht axial fan, that's all.

[khunPer]

5 minutes ago, donim said:

Interessting.

Did you change the setup between the indoor and outdoor unit too? So that only the outdoor unit is shutted down (hence the compressor stops) but the indoor still working, the cold still have to get out of the unit.

Repeatly cutting the power can be destroing, had a blown compressor here.

I can imagine the cut-off time is preventing that issue.

The AC here is now working as a normal air blower, the outdoor unit is disconnected.

Thanks for your reply.

 

No, the indoor units are powered from the outdoor units on my Mitsubishi aircons, so both are cut, when supply power is out of set range. Its a common solution on the island where I live, to protect pumps – both normal water pumps and pool-pumps – and aircons this way. I never had any problems with my 7 aircons – I have the cut-off time set for 5 minutes to avoid repeating cuts – whilst others in the neighborhood, not using phase protectors, have fatally "lost" aircons.

[sometimewoodworker]

1 hour ago, MrScratch said:

When I first started to think about having A/C installed at my house the thought of watching the installation people carry out the work made me feel uneasy . I am physically fit and active and do as much as I can my self in the way of house maintenance . So for a brief moment the idea of purchasing all the required A/C equipment / parts and assorted sundries my self and then install every thing in its correct physical position and run the power cable from the CB board to the A/C , then just getting an A/C engineer to come to the house to fit the pipe work then test the system, did cross my mind .

 

Any more thoughts on that scenario

 

 

Apart from charging the system, which requires specialist equipment that you won't use again there's nothing that you couldn't do yourself you would probably save about ½ the installation cost and any bodges will be your bodges.

 

A good installer will have it finished in half a day.

[bankruatsteve]

34 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

House supply can drop to around 180 V in the evenings.

 

Installed a Hitachi non-inverter in one bedroom this time last year and it still cools through the low-voltage early evening.

 

Installed an LG double-inverter last month in the other bedroom and it will sometimes try to cool if it is turned on early evening and before the Hitachi is. Otherwise, it's just a 15,000 baht axial fan, that's all.

One surmise from that could be that the LG is protecting itself and the Hitachi is not.  Seems like you might want to petition your PEA as it sounds like area brown-out.

[Thainesss]

That's a hell of a lot of work to do by yourself to save what amounts to a few thousand baht. 

 

And it's hot as balls. 

 

The labor is so cheap it's not even worth it. 

[NanLaew]

8 hours ago, bankruatsteve said:

One surmise from that could be that the LG is protecting itself and the Hitachi is not.  Seems like you might want to petition your PEA as it sounds like area brown-out.

Sounds like? It's been this way for the last 12 or 14 years despite frequent badgering of the local PEA by homeowners and the village headman. They inevitably send a man with a meter during the day and says it's all OK.

 

Getting myself one of them stabilizer thingmabobs that Crossy mentioned.

[xtrnuno41]

weird you have 30 A breaker outside main and main 63 A inside?!

It means your breaker inside will never work and the outside will work.

 

I see calculations here based on m2, though they are mostly with a fixed height in ceiling, yours is 3.7 instead of common 2.5 m. It differs a lot.

Your height is 50% higher.

ALso it differs if your rooms are in sunshine all day or not and or isolated.

You do have windows, double glazed?

Also covering the windows with heat reflecting foil. ah ok doesnt matter windows are open all day, so heat comes in. 

Your outside walls get hot , but how about inside, is it isolated? Is the heat coming through? Walls white outside?

Your ceiling is that one isolated? otherwise your airco is also working for the space above ceiling and that part is all day in sun so very warm/hot!

You can do a lot with isolation on the side of roof and ceiling.

IF you can get up on ceiling and put some isolation blankets there, otherwise have someone do that for you.

I saw the guys working in that area and they were really dripping with sweat. And those were Thai guys doing it more.

I do have to be there some time with my gf house for electrical issues, reordering, but can only be in early morning then with a fan. Its so hot when sun is shining on it.

I guess, ill have someone to do it for me , by my instructions. Its a terrible space. CAnt even normally walk over there.

 

room a 66,6 m3 times factor 50 (W/m3 bad isolated) 3330 watts = 10236 btu

room b 52.5 m3      X            50                               2625 watts= 9212 btu

1 watt = 3.412142 BTU, factor is worst case ,40 and 30 are lower, but guess 50 in your case will do best.

mmm amazing lower then the first guy said in calculation.

What you also can do is bring in some fans. FAns blowing over your body evaporate the sweat on your body and therefor you will cool down.

A slow turning fan, but with enough air displacement, means big impeller blades.

Or even you could try to get outside air inside by a fan, as in the evening the air is some cooler and it is still blowing over your body. Stick some plastic or thin  iron pipes through the ceiling to a fan on top of your house. Dont forget then to have some filtering for bugs , flies or whatever. 

 

[Crossy]

7 hours ago, NanLaew said:

Sounds like? It's been this way for the last 12 or 14 years despite frequent badgering of the local PEA by homeowners and the village headman. They inevitably send a man with a meter during the day and says it's all OK.

 

Getting myself one of them stabilizer thingmabobs that Crossy mentioned.

 

Be sure to read the pinned thread about sizing and installing an AVR

 

 

For those with lumpy-lectrik who are having zero luck with the supply authority, have a look at this simple Power Quality Monitor and take them some actual data.

 

 

[sometimewoodworker]

7 hours ago, xtrnuno41 said:

weird you have 30 A breaker outside main and main 63 A inside?!

He doesn't. What he said was

Quote

The house has a 30Amp electricity meter out in the street and a circuit breaker box in the lounge that has a 63 Amp main cut off / trip unit + a range of individual circuit breakers .

So that is a 100Amp supply.

[crazykopite]

Daikon inverter smile best on the market , super quiet and as it’s an inverter it is not expensive to run . I have had 4 installed in the last 15 months and have to say they are the best I have ever had . I purchased them through Lazada and brought in my own installer just make sure you get the correct size for the room I worked out my own requirements as I found the shops that sell them will quote you the most expensive none of them worked out what the room size was .

[CLW]

Family-in-law decided to buy air conditioning for two sleeping rooms.
Two identical rooms. Where there are no windows it inside wall. Ceiling height about 2.5 m.

I would be pleased if anyone could give me a BTU estimation or a calculator online where I can do it myself.
The location is in Bangkok so I am not so concerned about power cuts and voltage fluctuations.
After reading we will either purchase Daikin or Mitsubishi inverter units, just need to know the reasonable BTU numbers.

Thanks for help



Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

[Crossy]

2 minutes ago, CLW said:

I would be pleased if anyone could give me a BTU estimation or a calculator online where I can do it myself.

 

Rooms 3.5 x 3.5m = 12.25m²

 

Using the Thai quick-guesstimator of 600-700 BTU per m² that gives us 7,300 - 8,500 BTU.

 

Probably the smallest inverter unit you can get will do the job just fine unless arctic conditions are required.

[CLW]

 
Rooms 3.5 x 3.5m = 12.25m²
 
Using the Thai quick-guesstimator of 600-700 BTU per m² that gives us 7,300 - 8,500 BTU.
 
Probably the smallest inverter unit you can get will do the job just fine unless arctic conditions are required.

Great. Thanks so much for the quick reply.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

[myshem]

And what if an aircon is too small for the room ? It will work more, but still the room will be cool ? So why do we have to buy the bigger units if the room is big ? I am sure that any aircon can cool any room to 29 degres which is enough for normal people who tries to understand how heat work.

 

[sometimewoodworker]

6 hours ago, myshem said:

And what if an aircon is too small for the room ? It will work more, but still the room will be cool ? So why do we have to buy the bigger units if the room is big ? I am sure that any aircon can cool any room to 29 degres which is enough for normal people who tries to understand how heat work.

 

The room will eventually be cooler than without the AC unit sure. It will take a long time to cool much. It may get down to your chosen 29 degrees after a couple of hours, it will be running nonstop so an inverter would be a waste of money.

 

So if you want to have drastically undersized units it is your money.

[Trollmann]

I bought and installed sharp j-inverter 9000 btu from global house for 9990 baht including installation. It has a DC motor and the specification says that it will run fine at down to 130 volt AC. The compressor have 15 stages of power/speed from 85 watt to 880 watt. I have it running 24/7 in dehumifiding mode in 12m2 bedroom without any insulation in roof or walls and the temperature and humidity levels are so stable that I almost can write down the values on the wall 28 c and 48%. When you buy new air conditioner in thailand insist that they vacuum the refrigerant pipes or else they do not and save 30 minutes of working time. The warranty will be broken, the system will be less efficient making you have to pay higher power bills and maybe break down in a year or two. Watch them doing the vacuum and leak test

Edited April 24, 2019 by Trollmann

[Trollmann]

This is the temperatures i measured without the air condition running. Humidity levels was also high and often above 80 percent.

 

Edited April 24, 2019 by Trollmann

[MrScratch]

Thought I would update , I went out into the street to have another look at my house electricity meter and this time I took a photograph ..

 

On the electricity meter it says 30 ( 100 ) A

 

The cable leading from the electricity meter is what I can only describe as large ( about 1-1/2 inches in diameter ) black and round and runs from the meter down into the ground and then under the house and directly into the circuit breaker wall mounted box in the lounge .

 

So what exactly does 30 ( 100 ) A mean ?

 

 

Not related to my original A/C topic , but thought I would post it ????

 

 

I was sitting at my computer a few nights ago when out of the blue there was a very loud bang and flash of lightning , my wife said at the same time there was a quick flash / sparks in the circuit breaker wall mounted box in the lounge .

 

I instantly turned every thing electrical off , while a thunder and lightning continued over head.

 

I noticed that one of the 10 A circuit breaker seemed to have a small burn mark on it .

 

 

 

When things were finally back to normal I re checked to see if all the electrical appliances were working , and found that 2 things were now not working

 

1. The lounge ceiling fan

2. My new HP laptop .

 

The ceiling fan was connected to the same 10A circuit breaker that had the small burn mark .

 

My new HP laptop during the flash of lightning was running and being charged via charging unit that came with the laptop . Now the laptop would not switch on even if the charging unit was connected.

 

I went and bought an identical 10A circuit breaker and replaced the one with the burn mark .

 

After installing the new 10A circuit breaker I switched the lounge ceiling fan on and it only turned very slowly no matter which speed it was set at .

 

The new HP laptop has been taken to the local HP service center and its on its way to Bangkok for repair . I’m not sure what to do about the now slow ceiling fan ( which is only 3 months old )????

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Fruit Trader]

22 minutes ago, MrScratch said:

So what exactly does 30 ( 100 ) A mean ?

30 = Calibration amps

100 = Maximum amps

[Crossy]

1 hour ago, MrScratch said:

The new HP laptop has been taken to the local HP service center and its on its way to Bangkok for repair . I’m not sure what to do about the now slow ceiling fan ( which is only 3 months old )

 

You are the victim of a lightning induced power surge.

 

The lappie is on its way to be fixed, I would take the fan back to the store "it just stopped working" with luck they'll replace it, if not it may be the speed controller or just the motor capacitor.

 

You may wish to consider installing a whole-house surge arrestor, or at the very least investing in a good quality plug-in unit for your (repaired) lappie, the telly and anything else expensive and electronic. 

 

[shaemus]

On 4/24/2019 at 4:24 PM, MrScratch said:

Thought I would update , I went out into the street to have another look at my house electricity meter and this time I took a photograph ..

 

On the electricity meter it says 30 ( 100 ) A

 

The cable leading from the electricity meter is what I can only describe as large ( about 1-1/2 inches in diameter ) black and round and runs from the meter down into the ground and then under the house and directly into the circuit breaker wall mounted box in the lounge .

 

So what exactly does 30 ( 100 ) A mean ?

 

 

Not related to my original A/C topic , but thought I would post it ????

 

 

I was sitting at my computer a few nights ago when out of the blue there was a very loud bang and flash of lightning , my wife said at the same time there was a quick flash / sparks in the circuit breaker wall mounted box in the lounge .

 

I instantly turned every thing electrical off , while a thunder and lightning continued over head.

 

I noticed that one of the 10 A circuit breaker seemed to have a small burn mark on it .

 

 

 

When things were finally back to normal I re checked to see if all the electrical appliances were working , and found that 2 things were now not working

 

1. The lounge ceiling fan

2. My new HP laptop .

 

The ceiling fan was connected to the same 10A circuit breaker that had the small burn mark .

 

My new HP laptop during the flash of lightning was running and being charged via charging unit that came with the laptop . Now the laptop would not switch on even if the charging unit was connected.

 

I went and bought an identical 10A circuit breaker and replaced the one with the burn mark .

 

After installing the new 10A circuit breaker I switched the lounge ceiling fan on and it only turned very slowly no matter which speed it was set at .

 

The new HP laptop has been taken to the local HP service center and its on its way to Bangkok for repair . I’m not sure what to do about the now slow ceiling fan ( which is only 3 months old )????

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

hi

 

just to answer a question you have about the install costs. normally offered is 4 meters of tube, 3m of plastic trunking and 8 M of cabling. then it is charged per meter. if they do provide the cable make sure they install and earth cable as well. more than likely they will use 2 core rather than 2c+e, VAF + g 2.5 2.5 is the minimum id would use.

 

I have just had a Sharp installed at my main house in the babies room. not that quiet.

 

I installed the cable my self (sparkie) and just left the guys to it. checking occasionally.

 

We paid about 16000, but we got a discount of 3000, which we swapped for a rice cooker and a blender which we were going to buy.

 

I might get another installed upstairs, but i would revert to my favoured brand (samsung) as i have had excellent service from them here in Thailand and they have a silent range.

 

you can easily buy now SPD (surge protective Devices) from alot of places. worth installing just to catch the surges from lightening strikes to the service mains. they have just become mandatory in the UK for alot of installations, so the price will drop over there if you cant find them here. Also RCBO's are very common there and much cheaper then here. if you are shopping online.

 

Shameus

[Fruit Trader]

40 minutes ago, shaemus said:

if they do provide the cable make sure they install and earth cable as well. more than likely they will use 2 core rather than 2c+e, VAF + g 2.5 2.5 is the minimum id would use.

Most inverter AC's need a ground connection for reasons other than personal safety.

 

Example. A Thai installer will use four core cable from the indoor unit to the the outdoor unit and connect the grounds together. He does this because the communication line requires good common ground between the two units. Unfortunately he fails to include external ground with the power supply at the outdoor unit.

Below is a diagram showing the early stages of an inverter circuit. Its a common arrangement. The green line shows how the circuit filters and surge protection use supply ground from the installer terminals.