90 year-old Don is leaving Thailand

[tingtongtourist]

18 hours ago, Leaver said:

Many people, including myself, thought these new laws were implemented for the purpose of stopping the agents. 

 

Here we are, some months after the policy came in, and agents are still in business, and probably busier, and in all likelihood, will be very busy in the future. 

 

Can you explain that?

 

You say they will make it more difficult 6 months from now, but unless immigration clean up their corruption issues, making it more difficult just means more people use agents, which means more corruption money.  

 

 

I get your point.

But is the same in my own country with crooks in general.

No matter what new security technology comes in, the crooks will find some way genius way of getting around it.

 

Imms have many offices and individual for sure there will be bent ones and

Thailand have more issues than other countries.

face, not making trouble for "superiors"  or questioning elders, not piรรing in someone elses rice bowl, knowing you can get sacked easy for just open the mouth a little.

It all make stamping out corruption an impossible or very slow task.

 

Also wages are incredibly low, and why the country is so competitive and baht is so high.

thats why its still cheap for us farangs.

 

Cant have it both ways, and for sure you will get people wanting to taking what they think they deserve. 

you would probably do it yourself if your a poor working XX hours a week for peanuts and watching others drivie around in new mercs

 

I believe there are people trying to stop corruption here, especially yhe younger ones.

But no, i dont believe the corruption is endorsed and/or planned by the immigration chiefs.

 

but sure i will cop flack from the

tin-haters. 

or tin-hatters that is.

555

 

 

 

[BritTim]

23 minutes ago, tingtongtourist said:

I believe there are people trying to stop corruption here, especially yhe younger ones.

 But no, i dont believe the corruption is endorsed and/or planned by the immigration chiefs.

There have always been a few anti corruption campaigners in Thailand, and there are even a few clean police officers. The levels of corruption wax and wain. Right now, it is fairly average. There have been periods where corruption has been less, and periods where it has been worse. However, the whole system is built on a foundation of corruption. A plum position, paying a low salary, but offering lots of potential for collecting bribes, is sold off by the "immigration chiefs" (and their counterparts in other departments) for hundreds of thousands, even sometimes millions, of baht. Explain to me how an idealistic young official is ever going to reach a position of influence where he can work to improve the system. Also, the simple fact is that almost all Thais, while they may grumble about officials on the take, accept the system, and routinely pay whatever is necessary to get what they want out of officials.

 

Even in the unlikely event that an anti corruption zealot by a miracle ended up as prime minister, he would have no power to change the system. If he tried, he would soon be ejected by a military coup. The senior ranks of the armed forces benefit from the current system as much as the officials elsewhere.  

[Leaver]

4 hours ago, tingtongtourist said:

I get your point.

But is the same in my own country with crooks in general.

No matter what new security technology comes in, the crooks will find some way genius way of getting around it.

 

Imms have many offices and individual for sure there will be bent ones and

Thailand have more issues than other countries.

face, not making trouble for "superiors"  or questioning elders, not piรรing in someone elses rice bowl, knowing you can get sacked easy for just open the mouth a little.

It all make stamping out corruption an impossible or very slow task.

 

Also wages are incredibly low, and why the country is so competitive and baht is so high.

thats why its still cheap for us farangs.

 

Cant have it both ways, and for sure you will get people wanting to taking what they think they deserve. 

you would probably do it yourself if your a poor working XX hours a week for peanuts and watching others drivie around in new mercs

 

I believe there are people trying to stop corruption here, especially yhe younger ones.

But no, i dont believe the corruption is endorsed and/or planned by the immigration chiefs.

 

but sure i will cop flack from the

tin-haters. 

or tin-hatters that is.

555

 

 

 

I am not sure you understand the magnitude of the corruption involved around using agents to circumvent the financials required. 

 

Is starts at the bottom, and leads all the way to Bangkok.

 

It is country wide, with agents being used by thousands of foreigners, which will probably jump to tens of thousands in the next 12 months.

 

The new laws practically point foreigners in the direction of agents. 

 

I would not be surprised that when immigration see the money they can make, they bring out a new law saying no embassy letters will be accepted anymore, regardless of nationality.  That's more people pushed to use agents. 

 

I also believe they will up the 800k to 1 million, and the 400k to 600k, in the future.  There's more people pushed onto agents.

 

It's only a matter of time, as it's so lucrative, and immigration don't care how much money you have.  They only care how much they can make out of you.  

 

Immigration see the BiB making a lot of corrupt money out of foreigners with tea money etc.  I guess they want their snout in the trough as well.   

 

These agents should have all been gone by now, but they are still in business.  What does that tell you?  It tells me immigration is encouraging people to use them. 

 

I'm not concerned with low wages and who drives Merc's.  Corruption is corruption, and the new laws have boxed a lot of people in, on purpose, so they have to use the services of agents, and pay corruption money. 

 

I also would not be surprised that after 18 month time, and the smooth operation of using visa agents is proven, many people could jump off the cumbersome 65k method, and the money losing  800k/400k method, and use the flat fee agent method. 

 

Time will tell, but for now, it's business as usual for the agents, with no end to corruption in sight. 

 

[rabas]

29 minutes ago, Leaver said:

Time will tell, but for now, it's business as usual for the agents, with no end to corruption in sight.

 

No picture, didn't happen.

 

Can you point to one confirmed report of illicit agent 800K bankbook cooking from Chaengwattana since April/May? CW is a big place, should be examples if it's still rampant.

 

Edited May 6, 2019 by rabas

[GinBoy2]

4 hours ago, BritTim said:

There have always been a few anti corruption campaigners in Thailand, and there are even a few clean police officers. The levels of corruption wax and wain. Right now, it is fairly average. There have been periods where corruption has been less, and periods where it has been worse. However, the whole system is built on a foundation of corruption. A plum position, paying a low salary, but offering lots of potential for collecting bribes, is sold off by the "immigration chiefs" (and their counterparts in other departments) for hundreds of thousands, even sometimes millions, of baht. Explain to me how an idealistic young official is ever going to reach a position of influence where he can work to improve the system. Also, the simple fact is that almost all Thais, while they may grumble about officials on the take, accept the system, and routinely pay whatever is necessary to get what they want out of officials.

 

Even in the unlikely event that an anti corruption zealot by a miracle ended up as prime minister, he would have no power to change the system. If he tried, he would soon be ejected by a military coup. The senior ranks of the armed forces benefit from the current system as much as the officials elsewhere.  

Well you hit the nail on the head there.

 

There is no part of the Thai infrastructure that isn't corrupt.

 

For God's sake the military run for profit companies which in itself is ripe for corruption.

 

I had a bizarre conversation with a realtor many years back.

We're in the car to the Land Office when I was buying a condo.

We started talking about corruption, and she told me how terrible it was, destroying the country, but then without missing a beat told me she'd slipped a few ฿ to a guy in the Land Office so we wouldn't have to wait.

 

They are so numb to it, it's part of the culture

 

That's why a lot of farangs have this problem, that they try to see it through the prism of a western culture, where generally corruption is seen as bad.

In Thailand it IS the culture, and you're not going to change it 

Edited May 6, 2019 by GinBoy2

[BertM]

Based on some forum member's comments, it would seem that all agents are corrupt. I must be one of the few expats who used an agent this past year who didn't have to circumvent the financial requirements. I only used one to streamline my visit at CW Immigration so I wouldn't have to sit for hours waiting. It's one of the perks I can afford and enjoy treating myself. I will use the agent again this year using the 800k method.

Edited May 6, 2019 by BertM

[Leaver]

1 hour ago, rabas said:

 

No picture, didn't happen.

 

Can you point to one confirmed report of illicit agent 800K bankbook cooking from Chaengwattana since April/May? CW is a big place, should be examples if it's still rampant.

 

I don't use CW, but perhaps another member who does, and used an agent, can post about heir experience. 

 

I have read on TV that agents are still working out of the CW office, but that could be for cooking 800k bank books, or for a legit application by someone who couldn't be bothered doing it themselves.

[Leaver]

57 minutes ago, BertM said:

Based on some forum member's comments, it would seem that all agents are corrupt. I must be one of the few expats who used an agent this past year who didn't have to circumvent the financial requirements. I only used one to streamline my visit at CW Immigration so I wouldn't have to sit for hours waiting. It's one of the perks I can afford and enjoy treating myself. I will use the agent again this year using the 800k method.

Maybe you can confirm with your agent if he still offers the 800k loan service. 

[BertM]

28 minutes ago, Leaver said:

Maybe you can confirm with your agent if he still offers the 800k loan service. 

I don't need to ask my agent if he offers an 800k loan service because I have my own 800k+ in the bank. I do enjoy being picked up, dropped off at the front door of CW Immigration, escorted inside to take my pic and then taken back home, all for 15k.

 

I do know this is a big agency and they make loans to people who have condos or houses to use as collateral because a friend of mine have over 5MM invested with the agency on several properties. Nothing illegal about that though. He makes 12% per year on his investment.

Edited May 6, 2019 by BertM

[Leaver]

12 minutes ago, BertM said:

I don't need to ask my agent if he offers an 800k loan service because I have my own 800k+ in the bank. I do enjoy being picked up, dropped off at the front door of CW, escorted inside to take my pic and then taken back home, all for 15k. I do know this agency also makes loans to people if they have a condo or house to put up as collateral because a friend of mine have over 5MM invested with him on several properties.

Nothing illegal about that though.

I know you have 800k, it was for the benefit of the member who believes the 800k loan service is no longer being offered by agents. 

[BertM]

4 minutes ago, Leaver said:

I know you have 800k, it was for the benefit of the member who believes the 800k loan service is no longer being offered by agents. 

Sorry, but I'm not going to ask my agency if they offer a corrupt 800k loan service which is what I assume you are asking. People who need to circumvent the rules can do that for themselves.

[Leaver]

3 minutes ago, BertM said:

Sorry, but I'm not going to ask my agency if they offer a corrupt 800k loan service which is what I assume you are asking. People who need to circumvent the rules can do that for themselves.

I thought you may know about your agent's services, because it's hardly an underground thing.  They have offices with signage. 

[rabas]

30 minutes ago, BertM said:

I don't need to ask my agent if he offers an 800k loan service because I have my own 800k+ in the bank. I do enjoy being picked up, dropped off at the front door of CW Immigration, escorted inside to take my pic and then taken back home, all for 15k.

 

I do know this is a big agency and they make loans to people who have condos or houses to use as collateral because a friend of mine have over 5MM invested with the agency on several properties. Nothing illegal about that though. He makes 12% per year on his investment.

Sure, if a foreigner could take a mortgage on his home or condo they can use that as 800K in the bank with Immigration's full blessing. You agent probably does good business because mortgages can be more difficult for foreigners to get. 

 

[tingtongtourist]

6 hours ago, BertM said:

I don't need to ask my agent if he offers an 800k loan service because I have my own 800k+ in the bank. I do enjoy being picked up, dropped off at the front door of CW Immigration, escorted inside to take my pic and then taken back home, all for 15k.

 

I do know this is a big agency and they make loans to people who have condos or houses to use as collateral because a friend of mine have over 5MM invested with the agency on several properties. Nothing illegal about that though. He makes 12% per year on his investment.

15k????

and all it takes is a few hours of his time and 500baht driver???

 

 jesus is shaking his head weeping and saying "one is born every minute"!

 

i will give you a foot massage while you waiting at CW for that sort of money!!

[BertM]

6 hours ago, tingtongtourist said:

15k????

and all it takes is a few hours of his time and 500baht driver???

 

 jesus is shaking his head weeping and saying "one is born every minute"!

 

i will give you a foot massage while you waiting at CW for that sort of money!!

No thanks on the foot massage. But, as far as "one being born every minute", not many multi-millionaires (that's in USDs) are born every minute. Maybe if you had received your university degree like me, worked for the same company for 40 years, retired with an 18 month pay severance package, company pension, 401k, IRAs and my gov't SS pension and managed to save several million USD which are invested in stocks & CDs, then maybe you could afford to treat yourself once a year for 15k THB and not to have to wait in line at immigration. I spend that every week on eating out & entertainment. Hope you're enjoying your retirement because I am...

You may want to think before putting foot in mouth...

Edited May 7, 2019 by BertM

[onera1961]

1 hour ago, BertM said:

401k, IRAs and my gov't SS pension and managed to save several million USD which are invested in stocks & CDs, then maybe you could afford to treat yourself once a year for 15k THB

but but but while you are blowing our money hiring agents for convenience and eating in an air con restaurants, the vast majority of DIY folks here are subjecting themselves to inconveniences, and eating 30-baht pork soup for lunch in an unsanitary, road side food stall for the noble sacrifice of donating their money to the childrens' hospital. 

Edited May 7, 2019 by onera1961

[Thaiwrath]

1 hour ago, BertM said:

No thanks on the foot massage. But, as far as "one being born every minute", not many multi-millionaires (that's in USDs) are born every minute. Maybe if you had received your university degree like me, worked for the same company for 40 years, retired with an 18 month pay severance package, company pension, 401k, IRAs and my gov't SS pension and managed to save several million USD which are invested in stocks & CDs, then maybe you could afford to treat yourself once a year for 15k THB and not to have to wait in line at immigration. I spend that every week on eating out & entertainment. Hope you're enjoying your retirement because I am...

You may want to think before putting foot in mouth...

Not many multi-millionaires (that's in USDs) post on Thai Visa either, except you, of course !     

Edited May 7, 2019 by Thaiwrath

[onera1961]

7 minutes ago, Thaiwrath said:

Not many multi-millionaires post on Thai Visa either, except you, of course

But one does not have to be a multimillionaire to hire an agent for convenience. It is only 500USD per year or 50USD per month. 

[BertM]

16 minutes ago, onera1961 said:

but but but while you are blowing our money... 

Had to laugh on that one... It's not your or our money... It's my "money" and it was hard earned & wisely invested. As for as the SS gov't pension, my company and me contributed equally for a total of $330,133 in SS taxes, so until we pass that mark it's my money too. And, I'm only 62 and haven't even started drawing my SS yet. Wishing you all well too... Have a good day gentlemen...

Edited May 7, 2019 by BertM

[spidermike007]

This is tragic, and is an example of the extreme myopia afflicting this current administration. Any letter from a foreigner to a government official would likely be met with disdain and hostility. After all, we are the enemy. They have no perspective on just how much the average ex-pat brings to the table here. The construction of rather nice homes, the expenditure of between 60,000 and over 100,000 baht per month each, the support of countless Thai families, the businesses, the investments, the cash in the bank. And how about the law abiding lifestyle? The respect shown to others? The regard for the environment? 

 

Thailand deserves its fate. Early on, the US and Japan came with billions, to help a very poor nation to develop it's infrastructure, when it was totally incapable of doing it on it's own. All of that history has been forgotten, by the current crop of incompetent and non visionary clowns at the top. 

 

If one thing could be said about the current regime, it is that the well being and benefit of the Thai people, is their last priority in the world. 

[onera1961]

1 minute ago, BertM said:

Had to laugh on that one... It's not your or our money... It's my "money"

Sorry, intended to write your money. 

[Spidey]

17 hours ago, BertM said:

Based on some forum member's comments, it would seem that all agents are corrupt. I must be one of the few expats who used an agent this past year who didn't have to circumvent the financial requirements. I only used one to streamline my visit at CW Immigration so I wouldn't have to sit for hours waiting. It's one of the perks I can afford and enjoy treating myself. I will use the agent again this year using the 800k method.

As a self made multi millionaire, it surprises me that you allow yourself to be ripped off. Most self made multi millionaires that I've met are very careful with their money, that's how they became multi millionaires.

 

In Pattaya, for 15k baht, the visa agent will preform the same functions for you plus season your bank account. For a legitimate applicant for a visa extension, they will demand a fee of no more than 5k baht for the services that an agent is providing for you.

 

Are you sure that they aren't seasoning your account for you?

Edited May 7, 2019 by Spidey

[ICELANDMAN]

2 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

This is tragic, and is an example of the extreme myopia afflicting this current administration. Any letter from a foreigner to a government official would likely be met with disdain and hostility. After all, we are the enemy. They have no perspective on just how much the average ex-pat brings to the table here. The construction of rather nice homes, the expenditure of between 60,000 and over 100,000 baht per month each, the support of countless Thai families, the businesses, the investments, the cash in the bank. And how about the law abiding lifestyle? The respect shown to others? The regard for the environment? 

 

Thailand deserves its fate. Early on, the US and Japan came with billions, to help a very poor nation to develop it's infrastructure, when it was totally incapable of doing it on it's own. All of that history has been forgotten, by the current crop of incompetent and non visionary clowns at the top. 

 

If one thing could be said about the current regime, it is that the well being and benefit of the Thai people, is their last priority in the world. 

On reality Thais never said thank you western country, is only a matter of dirty politics, now the Thais are waiting for money from the China as did Cambodia, a major road open to the Chinese now.

With all my respect for you, If you expect gratitude in Asia you are in the wrong part of the world or you have not yet understood the Asian cultures, maybe you are so lucky not make bad experience or need more time....

I agree that all this is not in our favour of Western expatriates soon or later.

 

 

 

[ICELANDMAN]

3 hours ago, BertM said:

Had to laugh on that one... It's not your or our money... It's my "money" and it was hard earned & wisely invested. As for as the SS gov't pension, my company and me contributed equally for a total of $330,133 in SS taxes, so until we pass that mark it's my money too. And, I'm only 62 and haven't even started drawing my SS yet. Wishing you all well too... Have a good day gentlemen...

Good morning multimillionaire, don't talk too much about how rich you are if you don't want to find yourself one day in front of your door an army of beautiful sexy girls and lady boys......  

[tingtongtourist]

5 hours ago, BertM said:

No thanks on the foot massage. But, as far as "one being born every minute", not many multi-millionaires (that's in USDs) are born every minute. Maybe if you had received your university degree like me, worked for the same company for 40 years, retired with an 18 month pay severance package, company pension, 401k, IRAs and my gov't SS pension and managed to save several million USD which are invested in stocks & CDs, then maybe you could afford to treat yourself once a year for 15k THB and not to have to wait in line at immigration. I spend that every week on eating out & entertainment. Hope you're enjoying your retirement because I am...

You may want to think before putting foot in mouth...

You would probably save money just buying the Elite visa.

If have to extend every year, just get pilot to fly your learjet to Hong Kong..

a few hours shopping,

Duck over to Kowloon for a punt..

back home in the same day.

5555

[Leaver]

On 5/6/2019 at 12:15 PM, Spidey said:

Friend of mine is 81. Snowbird. Can't keep him out of the bars and gogos when he's here. His favourite bars are BJ bars, where he just reclines on a couch, in the bar and lets a couple of girls go to work on him.

 

You really are never too old.

I would say a lot of snowbirds will move to tourist visas now.  

 

It's just not worth it for them to deposit 800k, or transfer 65k every month, when they only spend 4 to 5 months here a year. 

[Spidey]

8 minutes ago, Leaver said:

I would say a lot of snowbirds will move to tourist visas now.  

 

It's just not worth it for them to deposit 800k, or transfer 65k every month, when they only spend 4 to 5 months here a year. 

My friend is planning to do exactly that. Cutting his time in Thailand down slightly to 3 months and coming in on a tourist visa.

[Leaver]

On 5/8/2019 at 9:42 PM, Spidey said:

My friend is planning to do exactly that. Cutting his time in Thailand down slightly to 3 months and coming in on a tourist visa.

Across Thailand, there could be thousands of the snowbird demographic that will now do similar to your friend.

 

That's a lot of lost revenue for Thailand, and bad publicity by word of mouth, and for what? 

 

All immigration have done has cut their 4 or 5 months stay down to 3 months.  It's not like "good guys in, bad guys out."   

Edited May 11, 2019 by Leaver

[Letseng]

On 5/8/2019 at 1:32 PM, Leaver said:

I would say a lot of snowbirds will move to tourist visas now.  

 

It's just not worth it for them to deposit 800k, or transfer 65k every month, when they only spend 4 to 5 months here a year. 

Why not go for non-imm O multi entry? No need for 800.000 in a Thai bank. We just needed to show 200.000 ea. anywhere in the world.

[Leaver]

5 minutes ago, Letseng said:

Why not go for non-imm O multi entry? No need for 800.000 in a Thai bank. We just needed to show 200.000 ea. anywhere in the world.

I believe you are only allowed two of these visas, but I am not sure.  If you can have as many as you like, sure, that is the solution, but if you can only have two, then after you have used them, you are back to the same problem.