Lawyer for traffic 'offence'?

[Orton Rd]

Any recommendations for a lawyer or at least sound advice on a traffic offence. Something quite trivial seems to be being blown up as much a possible by the Police and Hospital. We have to go to the Station again to discuss the 'criminal' offence of careless driving when a bike slammed into us and he was injured, the Police say it gets more serious if he is still injured after 27 days.

[DaRoadrunner]

You don't say who was at fault? Have you any witnesses who would say it was the bike rider's fault? Dash cam footage?

 

One thing is sure... they are all out to get as much money as they can out of the Farang, who will be blamed, whether it was his fault or not.

 

Don't be surprised if the bike rider has done a private deal with the Police.

Edited April 27, 2019 by DaRoadrunner

[Kwasaki]

16 minutes ago, Orton Rd said:

Any recommendations for a lawyer or at least sound advice on a traffic offence.

Google a lawyer in your area and give them a detailed account of the accident instead of your brief opening post.

[Orton Rd]

41 minutes ago, DaRoadrunner said:

You don't say who was at fault? Have you any witnesses who would say it was the bike rider's fault? Dash cam footage?

 

One thing is sure... they are all out to get as much money as they can out of the Farang, who will be blamed, whether it was his fault or not.

 

Don't be surprised if the bike rider has done a private deal with the Police.

There's a thread on it, our first traffic accident. You are right about the money of course

[Isaanbiker]

Not wanting to make your blood boil, but I know that the coppers here are more than powerful, because all cases are first in the hands of cops. No matter whose fault it was, in theory, would the injured guy pay money to the cop who came to the accident and wrote the report, you could be very screwed. ( Of course, did he visit him in the hospital ad the chat might not have been in your favor.)

 

             Don't wait too long, go to the coppers, try to find out what the report looks like, or you could find yourself in a very bad situation. If the guy paid the cops, pay them more. Sorry, if that might sound insane, but there's no right and wrong. Money rules.

 

       My neighbor, a younger teacher was heavily intoxicated when he crashed with a motorbike driver who's also drunk. Both vehicles were brought to the coppers and when the teacher's mom went to them and paid the cop 60 K, the report was changed in a way that the poor guy who's hospitalized and less drunk than her son, was the only guy who was drunk. Mom's dad was a big shot at the same police station a while ago...

 

    He could get his Nissan pick up truck from the station and bring it to a place where they fixed all for zero baht and even resprayed the damn thing, just because he had # 1 insurance. But same insurance wouldn't have paid one baht if he'd been drunk. I felt so sorry for the poor guy in the hospital who had broken bones who was all in a sudden a criminal who'd destroyed a teacher's vehicle being intoxicated. 

 

The offense can easily become a crime when they change the story in a way that you were speeding, did a red light, or anything similar. Be careful out there, it's like a jungle with plenty of poisonous snakes. 

      

 

          

 

  

Edited April 27, 2019 by Isaanbiker

[alacrity]

If you have insurance report the accident to them and their representative will accompany you to the police station. Then field any questions of compensation directly to them. The representative knows the system and will keep costs to a minimum. That's their job.

 

The other party should have the government insurance and if so they are covered for around 30,000 THB in medical expenses. If medical costs are more than that, they will look for you to make up the shortfall. Your continuous response is, my insurance will pay.

 

When the traffic police submit their report of the accident. The report will determine blame. If it's not deemed to be your fault the payment limitations of the other party's government insurance will apply (if they have it).

If it's deemed to be your fault then you (your insurance) will pay. If it isn't deemed to be your fault and the government insurance is insufficient you will most likely be asked to accept a minimum fine for the maximum charge of careless driving.

If you accept your insurance will pay and make sure that the other party signs the report accepting a 'one-off' payment.. If not the matter will be decided in court.

 

Seems reasonable that if someone is still incapacitated after 27 days the injury compensation increases as it's more serious than a bump on the head. Your insurance representative will be aware of the financial limitations of such claims.

 

It's better to resolve the issue asap. Less opportunity for folks to climb onto the gravy train. You won't get your car fixed until things are resolved either (unless you pay from your own pocket.

 

[geoffbezoz]

Try a Mr Maximus Baht.  When he is not acting in a legal capacity he doubles up as a magician.   Makes nearly everything disappear  ????

[NanLaew]

From the OP's original thread on this accident, I assume that the insurance company agent is still useless? Have you or your wife spoken directly with the insurance company about this guy yet?

 

In the accident I related on your other thread, my wife and I had started to consider a lawyer with the police hell bent on proving she was at fault and passing on her mobile phone number to the family of the injured party so they could harass her. The new agent changed all that when he actually went to bat for Mrs NL and not the 'victims' and got the police to instruct these people to stop calling my wife.

[Orton Rd]

Mrs rang the insurance up on the phone for 30 mins, they said they would send another agent to the station, same idiot turned up 30 minutes late, 45 minutes later they were still shuffling papers when we left. Kid was in Hospital for 6 days, A&E in the west would not have kept him one night. He would have turned up in a wheelchair if he had one. Cops say charges depend on Hospital report in a week or so.

[manchega]

yes it is true, being stupid is a defence in thai law especially if you happen to be on a bike.

in all cases you are in the wrong when the accident happens.  

however the least stressful thing is to wait until it comes to court time and then start forking out for the case,

legal issues remain a rich mans game and if you call the bluff and take it to court then it is likely they will back out.

they want you to pay money

 

I had a bike drive into me as well.

 

the driver started to wai me and put out his hand asking for money I did the ignorant foreigner thing, wai'd back and shook the open hand.

 

this one was not that injured, but miming things like no brain helps your case

[eddie61]

On 4/28/2019 at 12:37 AM, Isaanbiker said:

Not wanting to make your blood boil, but I know that the coppers here are more than powerful, because all cases are first in the hands of cops. No matter whose fault it was, in theory, would the injured guy pay money to the cop who came to the accident and wrote the report, you could be very screwed. ( Of course, did he visit him in the hospital ad the chat might not have been in your favor.)

 

             Don't wait too long, go to the coppers, try to find out what the report looks like, or you could find yourself in a very bad situation. If the guy paid the cops, pay them more. Sorry, if that might sound insane, but there's no right and wrong. Money rules.

 

       My neighbor, a younger teacher was heavily intoxicated when he crashed with a motorbike driver who's also drunk. Both vehicles were brought to the coppers and when the teacher's mom went to them and paid the cop 60 K, the report was changed in a way that the poor guy who's hospitalized and less drunk than her son, was the only guy who was drunk. Mom's dad was a big shot at the same police station a while ago...

 

    He could get his Nissan pick up truck from the station and bring it to a place where they fixed all for zero baht and even resprayed the damn thing, just because he had # 1 insurance. But same insurance wouldn't have paid one baht if he'd been drunk. I felt so sorry for the poor guy in the hospital who had broken bones who was all in a sudden a criminal who'd destroyed a teacher's vehicle being intoxicated. 

 

The offense can easily become a crime when they change the story in a way that you were speeding, did a red light, or anything similar. Be careful out there, it's like a jungle with plenty of poisonous snakes. 

      

 

          

 

  

I agree with everything you say...... all of which speaks for “get a dashcam”! A dashcam is a particularly good investment for farang drivers here........

[NanLaew]

6 hours ago, Orton Rd said:

Mrs rang the insurance up on the phone for 30 mins, they said they would send another agent to the station, same idiot turned up 30 minutes late, 45 minutes later they were still shuffling papers when we left. Kid was in Hospital for 6 days, A&E in the west would not have kept him one night. He would have turned up in a wheelchair if he had one. Cops say charges depend on Hospital report in a week or so.

I would have quietly walked out as soon as the retard agent showed up again. I think your wife should call again, speak to someone with a bit more seniority and  before asking if a new agent can be assigned, ask if they have any record of this case. If that doesn't work, tell them you will be contacting the insurance ombudsman. Then, contact the insurance ombudsman.

 

Your wife has not been charged and IMHO cannot be charged based on the suggested rate of recovery of someone who has already been discharged from the hospital. The 'victim' is an out-patient and is clearly not going to die. The insurance company should already have a copy of the doctor's sign off. The police don't have it with their 'in a week or so' comment. Maybe this dodgy agent already has it and is now playing a game in cahoots with the cops.

 

Where on earth is this den of thieving incompetents and what insurance company is being misrepresented by their third-party agent? These agents have an ID card that identifies their employer too so ask to see it and get a picture of that if you can. If he refuses, then it's the ombudsman.

[Orton Rd]

Mr useless agent agreed not to sign off the case as the injured party still has to go to Hospital, pretty sure he will be telling them he's going to be disabled for life! Cops say case proceeds after the final Hospital report. if it is going to impact us I will ask for an orthopaedic specialist to look him over for a second opinion.

[NanLaew]

13 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

Where on earth is this den of thieving incompetents and what insurance company is being misrepresented by their third-party agent? These agents have an ID card that identifies their employer too so ask to see it and get a picture of that if you can. If he refuses, then it's the ombudsman.

This is getting silly beyond words. The police have no dog in this fight at all. This threat of charges is EXACTLY the crap they pulled on Mrs NL as related by me in your other thread. Except we got a better agent and all the squeezing and threatening went away.

 

Head office AND the Ombudsman!

[richard_smith237]

11 minutes ago, Orton Rd said:

Mr useless agent agreed not to sign off the case as the injured party still has to go to Hospital, pretty sure he will be telling them he's going to be disabled for life! Cops say case proceeds after the final Hospital report. if it is going to impact us I will ask for an orthopaedic specialist to look him over for a second opinion.

 

Your wife is still not at fault for the accident. 

 

Refuse everything, refuse to accept blame for the accident and refuse to give any compensation. 

 

Tell them you want to take the case to court, tell them you want it to go to court as its clear that the motorcyclist was either over illegally over taking or riding down the wrong side of the road (contravening traffic law). If it does go to court, its then time to get a lawyer. 

Edited April 29, 2019 by richard_smith237

[Baerboxer]

On 4/27/2019 at 11:09 PM, DaRoadrunner said:

You don't say who was at fault? Have you any witnesses who would say it was the bike rider's fault? Dash cam footage?

 

One thing is sure... they are all out to get as much money as they can out of the Farang, who will be blamed, whether it was his fault or not.

 

Don't be surprised if the bike rider has done a private deal with the Police.

 

Simply not true! A big bike smashed into the back of a car I was driving, no other passenger. Right outside a big police station and opposite a hospital. 

 

The hospital security rushed over to help and also told the police what happened. The motor cyclist was shook up but thankfully not badly hurt. The damage to my car was heavy. We went to the police station. His and my statements tallied with the witness.

 

He was fined ThB 400 for careless riding and I was free to go, having been treated very friendly and helpfully by officers who spoke and understood good English. The insurance company reps did the most work.

[richard_smith237]

1 hour ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Simply not true! A big bike smashed into the back of a car I was driving, no other passenger. Right outside a big police station and opposite a hospital. 

 

The hospital security rushed over to help and also told the police what happened. The motor cyclist was shook up but thankfully not badly hurt. The damage to my car was heavy. We went to the police station. His and my statements tallied with the witness.

 

He was fined ThB 400 for careless riding and I was free to go, having been treated very friendly and helpfully by officers who spoke and understood good English. The insurance company reps did the most work.

 

For how long were you without a car while yours was repaired?

 

Did the bike have insurance which covered the repairs to your car?

 

Did the Bikes insurance pay for a hire car while you were unable to use your car?

 

 

[Ireland32]

6 hours ago, eddie61 said:

I agree with everything you say...... all of which speaks for “get a dashcam”! A dashcam is a particularly good investment for farang drivers here........

Best 2500b I ever spent

[Tongjaw]

On 4/27/2019 at 11:09 PM, DaRoadrunner said:

You don't say who was at fault? Have you any witnesses who would say it was the bike rider's fault? Dash cam footage?

 

One thing is sure... they are all out to get as much money as they can out of the Farang, who will be blamed, whether it was his fault or not.

 

Don't be surprised if the bike rider has done a private deal with the Police.

On his other thread about it he says he admitted blame. So unfortunately he could be pretty well screwed. 

[thailand49]

One, listen to me carefully.  If your misses can convey this information otherwise get a lawyer who can understand your English.

One, not sure I missed it but you never said or you think was at fault? 

If it isn't your fault think now?  what does the hospital report have anything to do with fault?  Are they now the investigating body?

Now the police might think it is their job and if you let them run over you then they will make it their job in the Thai favor. The police job is to obtain the information and forward it to the district attorney they have no business being judge and jury!

 

Did the biker have a helmet on?  Does he have a valid driver license? and does was the motorbike register.  Don't believe in the " This is Thailand "  that has nothing to do with anything it doesn't excuse the rider from breaking the law if he did? Have your lady convey this information while you smile and if they don't bend then tell them to contact your lawyer that you won't come down again without him.

You indicated you are being accused of reckless driving? If you were at fault and this is true accept the punishment and the standard fine but the agent and police shouldn't be negotiating anything tell the agent apply the policy coverage end of story!

Somehow the police and agents have gotten into the habit of overstepping their job as if they are making things better they aren't the main reason Thai do not admit fault when it comes to foreigners.  Paying someone for breaking the law isn't going to make the person who has done nothing feel better if that was the case. Years back in a situation similar I told the police if I took a gun and held you up or extorted money from you would you feel better handling over the money?   Don't pay if it isn't your fault turn the table!

 

[DaRoadrunner]

9 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Simply not true! A big bike smashed into the back of a car I was driving, no other passenger. Right outside a big police station and opposite a hospital. 

 

The hospital security rushed over to help and also told the police what happened. The motor cyclist was shook up but thankfully not badly hurt. The damage to my car was heavy. We went to the police station. His and my statements tallied with the witness.

 

He was fined ThB 400 for careless riding and I was free to go, having been treated very friendly and helpfully by officers who spoke and understood good English. The insurance company reps did the most work.

You were lucky. In my experience your story is untypical. Most accidents the Farang gets blamed, though I have had a couple of cases were I won one at the Police station! I have also experienced a visit from gangsters who wanted money, as did the Police. I have also been rammed by a city bus and the local Police said it was the bus co's responsibility to pay for my car repairs. The bus co' insurers however, turned out to be run by the Police too, and they didn't want to pay. I had to go down there and confront them with one of their own Police statements... they reluctantly paid up. Amazing Thailand, anything is possible.

[richard_smith237]

39 minutes ago, DaRoadrunner said:

You were lucky. In my experience your story is untypical. Most accidents the Farang gets blamed, though I have had a couple of cases were I won one at the Police station! I have also experienced a visit from gangsters who wanted money, as did the Police. I have also been rammed by a city bus and the local Police said it was the bus co's responsibility to pay for my car repairs. The bus co' insurers however, turned out to be run by the Police too, and they didn't want to pay. I had to go down there and confront them with one of their own Police statements... they reluctantly paid up. Amazing Thailand, anything is possible.

 

When foreigners get unfairly blamed for something they always cry this and perpetuate the myth.... It's not true... 

 

The Police, being inherently lazy and dealing with these issues all the time just want the situation to go away as quickly as possible - I call this 'the path of least resistance'.

 

Usually when an accident is Motorcycle vs Car the car is blamed, being somewhat of an authoritarian state the average Thai driver will defer to the Police on these decisions, this has become so common that its almost the norm. Foreigners in this case do not understand this and cry racism - foreigner always wrong etc etc.... 

 

When a Foreigner is involved the Thai party may persuade the Police to try and blame the foreigner, it then comes down to the individual Policeman and whether or not they will go along with this through shear laziness, thinking if the foreigner is blamed the situation will go away more quickly. In many cases, when the foreigner is right and stands by his rights (in a traffic accident) they are not unfairly blamed. Equally so, many foreigners may think they are right and find themselves mistaken guilty of some mistake. 

 

 

Thus, I don't find that in Most Accidents (involving farang's) that Farang's are blamed. I find the 'system' seems to include a combination of 'who can afford to pay, who is hurt, who complains the most at the time, who seems the most powerful'... etc etc.. the issues are always somewhat multifaceted and all the Police wish to do is to evaluate these facets and come down to the quickest decision...  

 

If you are involved in an accident its up to you not to be taken advantage of.... this is the same here or your home country, and if you don't agree with the decision made by the Police it can be pushed up the chain. 

 

Your last comments pretty much back all this up and shows you handled yourself well (@ DaRoadrunner).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 29, 2019 by richard_smith237

[DJ54]

In China me an a friend would sit out on his porch drinking beers

while the wi es cooked. Almost everyday an accident with motos.

Most were put on for money targeting cars with black plates that 

meant foreigner.  They changed now to all blue.

 

The coos caught on a we saw a cop go over to a guy. Ike down laying in the street. The the cop slapped him in the head and off they guy went... looking for easy money

[oldrunner]

Always bear in mind YOU ARE NOT THAI, therefore if other party is Thai you are screwed from the get go. TIT.

[richard_smith237]

9 minutes ago, oldrunner said:

Always bear in mind YOU ARE NOT THAI, therefore if other party is Thai you are screwed from the get go. TIT.

Absolute tosh of the highest order... When will uneducated foreigners learn to stop peddling this moronic rubbish.... ????

 

Get off your bar stool and away from the enclave of 'farang negativity', experience a bit of normal life in Thailand and recognize we are treated with complete total indifference to which Thai's treat each other... 

[JoeW]

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

Absolute tosh of the highest order... When will uneducated foreigners learn to stop peddling this moronic rubbish.... ????

 

Get off your bar stool and away from the enclave of 'farang negativity', experience a bit of normal life in Thailand and recognize we are treated with complete total indifference to which Thai's treat each other... 

Absolutely correct. My son got hit by a car the other day and was left with minor injuries. I was present and so was my wife. Police came, driver said he was at fault for not looking, agreed to pay for the hospital bill and was charged with reckless driving. Never did anyone try to mention that hey this kid is half or hey his dad is a foreigner let's stick it to him. We were treated with the same respect as Thai people and now our case is closed. 

[Myran]

5 hours ago, oldrunner said:

Always bear in mind YOU ARE NOT THAI, therefore if other party is Thai you are screwed from the get go. TIT.

Please stop trying to perpetuate this absolute BS. I know a couple of farangs who were in traffic accidents, and they were both dealt with very fairly and were not blamed.

[scubascuba3]

The motorbike rider will have 30,000 baht medical cover as part of his compulsory insurance. It's 80,000 if not his fault.

Hospital should have a procedure to claim on the insurance

[mogandave]

Haters gonna hate...

[Jitar]

On 4/30/2019 at 5:47 PM, JoeW said:

Absolutely correct. My son got hit by a car the other day and was left with minor injuries. I was present and so was my wife. Police came, driver said he was at fault for not looking, agreed to pay for the hospital bill and was charged with reckless driving. Never did anyone try to mention that hey this kid is half or hey his dad is a foreigner let's stick it to him. We were treated with the same respect as Thai people and now our case is closed. 

Glad to hear the police did the right thing in you son's case and hope your son is OK.  I had a similar case many years ago with a BKK taxi running into the back of my car when I was stopped at red light.  A traffic cop witnessed the incident and the police dealt with the matter fairly. 

 

However in a few other cases with our work vehicles, police clearly had different motives.  These cases were not involving foreigners.  This myth about police targeting foreign drivers is not always correct, but they do not always behave correctly either.  From what I have seen over the years, the police response is extremely variable.  If the police response is OK - fine, if not get a lawyer or a least a good Thai negotiator.