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Private hospitals seek court halt on price controls


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Private hospitals seek court halt on price controls

By The Nation

 

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Ministry to meet hospital association in court over prices charged for services and drug.

 

THE COMMERCE Ministry is heading to the Central Administrative Court to defend government controls on the prices of medical services and drugs, after the Private Hospital Association sought a court injunction against enforcing the controls.

 

Bunyarit Kalayanamit, Commerce permanent secretary, said private hospitals are opposed to the price control measure as it would negatively affect the private sector.

 

The Commerce Ministry’s committee on prices of necessity goods and services had earlier resolved to put medical services and medicines on the list of items covered by government price control measures following a large number of complaints about their high prices.

 

Bunyarit said the measure is aimed at protecting the rights and interests of patients and consumers after complaints that private hospitals were over-charging. 

 

However, to date no price-control measures had been put into effect, he added, as the government must also ensure that private hospitals remain viable.

 

Currently, prices of medical services and drugs are merely monitored by the Commerce Ministry’s committee. A working group headed by the Department of Internal Trade’s director-general is also studying private hospitals’ price structure and is set to report results in 60 days, after which new price regulations may be enacted.

 

Vichai Pochanakij, director-general of the Department of Internal Trade, said the Central Administrative Court had ordered the agency to submit a report clarifying the price control measure imposed on private hospitals.

 

Vichai dismissed the Private Hospital Association’s claim that the private sector had not been consulted about the price controls, saying the government had held discussions with representatives of private hospitals, life and health insurance companies, and consumer protection organisations.

 

Measures applicable to all hospitals

 

In addition, he said, the price control measure is applicable to all hospitals, not limited only to privately owned establishments.

 

“Some private hospitals have been marking up prices by 200 or 300 per cent,” the department’s director-general, Wichai Pochanakit, revealed on April 8 after his department conducted a probe of costs and prices. Wichai said the department had ordered 355 private hospitals, large drugstores and importers of drugs, medical supplies and services to submit their lists of sales and purchases along with prices by April 4. Only 295 submitted the information by the deadline. 

 

“We will follow up on the rest,” Wichai said, warning that directors who ignored the order risked up to three months in jail and/or a fine of Bt5,000. Wichai said his department would wait for compliance only until next week. “After that, we will take legal action.” 

 

The Internal Trade Department plans to check on the prices charged for 3,892 medicines, 868 supplies and 5,286 services.

 

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/national/30368566

 

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-- © Copyright The Nation 2019-04-30
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Okay, they charge rip off prices, no argue on that. I don't know if there are collusion laws in Thailand and price fixing regulations etc. In a supposed capitalist system, private businesses are free to set prices and let the market do it's thing. That's the theory anyway.

Are they next going to crack down on bars that charge outrageous prices, beat up customers that won't pay, sending them to hospital (public or private?)

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1 minute ago, Emdog said:

Okay, they charge rip off prices, no argue on that. I don't know if there are collusion laws in Thailand and price fixing regulations etc. In a supposed capitalist system, private businesses are free to set prices and let the market do it's thing. That's the theory anyway.

Are they next going to crack down on bars that charge outrageous prices, beat up customers that won't pay, sending them to hospital (public or private?)

It's the hoodwinking. Shafting people when they are at their most vulnerable and almost forcing them to buy the drugs from their pharmacies is incredibly reprehensible. They make enough on the board/ops etc & then to kick the patient in the balls on the drugs too! Come on it's horrific practice.

If you go into a bar, (unless it's one of those really shady ones), you know the price after the first drink.

If you are taken by emergency to a hospital you have little choice in the matter. 

It's not like you nearest and dearest can suddenly know the going price on certain drugs when they are shepherded to the hospital's pharmacy. 

Also they know that most won't question the price due to losing face/not being completely aware of the price comparisons etc

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3 hours ago, PatOngo said:

Buddha would cry under his bodhi tree if he could see how his teachings were (mis) interpreted here.

True, but the Thai Buddhism 'version' is not what he 'd have envisaged - a money making group concerned with self-interest.

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OKAY slow down people.  First inmost cases private hospitals are not ripping thais off.  

even in western countries, they will ask if you have health insurance because it means extra paperwork for the doctor to complete.  

Yes, it is definitely more expensive for people to go to the BDMS facilities but then again you only have to look at the buildings to know that.  How do you think they pay for the doctors the decor and the medical facilities that they have.

just the same as it is different to buy clothes at CENTRAL than it is to buy at MBK stalls.

 

You are paying for the service and the professional staff.

 

I use both private and public hospitals for specialist care i go to BNH as i want to get the best and will pay for the best when it comes to surgery.  For meds, I pay higher that is a fact f life.

For normal things like cholesterol or diabetes, I go to the public hospital and pay a lower price but again the reasoning is the same I get the service I need.

 

 

Americans can tell you about getting ripped off for meds especially those that lived close to the Canadian border. LOL

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I had to vist my consultant a couple of weeks ago and his first question was to ask why he had not seen me for over one year. I asked if he would prefer the truth or a "porkie pie" and he replied the truth.

I told him that the medication he had been prescibing me was costing 2,300 TB (for 1 month) from the hospital pharmacy when I could buy exactly the same item for 650 TB in most Pharmacies in the city. I had been continuing with the medication and saving a lot of money.

After our consultation he started writing on a slip of paper and then handed it to me. It was a list of medicines that he wanted me to try and he said "I fully understand the problem. Take this into town tomorrow and buy these, then come back and see me in 4 weeks.  The consutation cost me 470 TB but I saved over 3000TB on the medicines.  Nice guy!

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22 minutes ago, JustinCredible said:

I had to vist my consultant a couple of weeks ago and his first question was to ask why he had not seen me for over one year. I asked if he would prefer the truth or a "porkie pie" and he replied the truth.

I told him that the medication he had been prescibing me was costing 2,300 TB (for 1 month) from the hospital pharmacy when I could buy exactly the same item for 650 TB in most Pharmacies in the city. I had been continuing with the medication and saving a lot of money.

After our consultation he started writing on a slip of paper and then handed it to me. It was a list of medicines that he wanted me to try and he said "I fully understand the problem. Take this into town tomorrow and buy these, then come back and see me in 4 weeks.  The consutation cost me 470 TB but I saved over 3000TB on the medicines.  Nice guy!

I was talking to a doctor recently and he told me that he worked at a well known government hospital and two private hospitals.

 

He said that a particular surgery was free at the government hospital, 90,000 Baht at one of the private hospitals and 300,000 at the other. He said that the procedure is the same, equipment is the same, same doctor but different surroundings.

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This is the same scam ( and I mean scam ) in USA. This Corporate model is parasitic and cost for medical care is out of control. I think the INS companies are in cahoots with the med community and they are sharing on the rip off. Socialism health care is not the way either. Free market ( competition between choices is the best self regulating method if companies want to make a buck and keep viable.

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1 hour ago, JustinCredible said:

I had to vist my consultant a couple of weeks ago and his first question was to ask why he had not seen me for over one year. I asked if he would prefer the truth or a "porkie pie" and he replied the truth.

I told him that the medication he had been prescibing me was costing 2,300 TB (for 1 month) from the hospital pharmacy when I could buy exactly the same item for 650 TB in most Pharmacies in the city. I had been continuing with the medication and saving a lot of money.

After our consultation he started writing on a slip of paper and then handed it to me. It was a list of medicines that he wanted me to try and he said "I fully understand the problem. Take this into town tomorrow and buy these, then come back and see me in 4 weeks.  The consutation cost me 470 TB but I saved over 3000TB on the medicines.  Nice guy!

So true. Pretty much all medicines are available through local pharmacies. My wife had to get HRT, a 6 month supply was quoted at 20K at a big private hospital (plus other fees). We asked at a local pharmacy - gave them the name of the medicine, went back 4 days later and paid 4'600 baht for a 6 month supply, exactly the same stuff. The pharmacist said he can get most medicines (might be a delay due to ordering times) with a prescription. Only exceptions are some specialist medicines which come from abroad and require additional paperwork.  Most of the meds come from regional distribution centers - hospitals all get priority over pharmacies but supplies are plentiful it seems. 

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My wife recently had 8 days in ICU, and gratefully they saved her life, But when she started to see the bills she started to get distressed, She wanted out on the Monday, but the doctor never came, so she had to stay till Tuesday, another 40,000 Baht. All's well now, she seeing her local doctor, and paying pharmacy prices, have cancelled out-patient appointments, as the last one was another 10,000 Baht. NO MORE C/M Ram.

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The prices for drugs and services need to be clearly and simply displayed. Also, made available online and in the reception/emergency admittance area. "All in" prices for common services along with a breakdown of the costs. Patients need to be able to make informed decisions no bait and switch, no padding of the bills after the fact.

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Your average Tourist or Foreigner in hospital wouldn't know what the right price is for medication and probably not able to go to a local Chemist and get them so just pay.
Probably one of the best things this government will do let's hope.
Also hospital treatment and health insurance needs law.
Those who oppose it probably work for Private hospitals I know plenty of Farang are employed to get money off fellow Farang.

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4 hours ago, Geordie59 said:

The problem I have with private hospitals is that they often put business above proper health care. 

Why else is the first question you are asked is "Do you have insurance?"

I suppose your first question to anyone would be "do you work for free"

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1 hour ago, grumpy 4680 said:

My wife recently had 8 days in ICU, and gratefully they saved her life, But when she started to see the bills she started to get distressed, She wanted out on the Monday, but the doctor never came, so she had to stay till Tuesday, another 40,000 Baht. All's well now, she seeing her local doctor, and paying pharmacy prices, have cancelled out-patient appointments, as the last one was another 10,000 Baht. NO MORE C/M Ram.

Ram is one of the more expensive hospitals in CM, they have ICU's at government hospitals as well at a fraction of the price. I have always gone for private treatment at hospitals and dentists until by chance I tried a government hospital and was surprised by the good treatment and low cost.

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Its like buying a new bucket because the one you are using for the leaking tap is spilling over. How about fixing the tap instead?
 
Letting the government put its inefficient, corrupt, and uneducated nose into this will not help much. Do you really think private hospitals will just swallow the bitter pill and learn to live with less profits? Or will they simply increase the prices of everything else, including doctor fees, surcharges, and whatever more? And based on what will the government decide how much a hospital can charge extra on medicine? If people enjoy the "first-class" experience of private hospitals, let them pay for it. Just as some people fly first-class, and some people don't mind paying absurd high levels on taxes on imported German automobiles.
 
The bigger problem is 2-fold:
1 - unclear pricing: transparancy is needed so consumers (patients) can make informed choices. But unfortunately transparancy and Thailand don't go well together
2 - competition is needed: this has to come from both within the private sector (Bangkok Hospital was allowed to buy up all competing hospitals on Phuket) and from the government hospitals. In Phuket we already have "mahogany" care at the government hospital which is more expensive and luxerious, but falls in between free and the expensive private sector. Put more focus on this, let government hospitals explore this further, and compete directly with the private sector this way. It seems like easy money to be made, unlike making more rules and hiring more government employees to see those rules are being followed.
 
 

I agree. I don’t think capping fees from a regulatory basis really fixed the issue per se... I do think requiring clear upfront pricing disclosure is a must .... and also agree that increased, fair competition would be a better long term fix for prices over an artificially imposed regulatory basis.


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
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9 hours ago, kingstonkid said:

OKAY slow down people.  First inmost cases private hospitals are not ripping thais off.  

even in western countries, they will ask if you have health insurance because it means extra paperwork for the doctor to complete.  

Yes, it is definitely more expensive for people to go to the BDMS facilities but then again you only have to look at the buildings to know that.  How do you think they pay for the doctors the decor and the medical facilities that they have.

just the same as it is different to buy clothes at CENTRAL than it is to buy at MBK stalls.

 

You are paying for the service and the professional staff.

I do not agree that less fancy looking hospitals e.g. govt., St Louis and others have kess professional staff than BDMS group ones. I didn't experience great professionalism in the one on Convent Rd., care was less than NHS level.

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I agree. I don’t think capping fees from a regulatory basis really fixed the issue per se... I do think requiring clear upfront pricing disclosure is a must .... and also agree that increased, fair competition would be a better long term fix for prices over an artificially imposed regulatory basis.


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
There is also an issue of blstantly unfair and unethical practices that prevent people from exercising choice. For example, forbidding doctors from giving patients prescriptions which can be filled at a pharmacy (or even telling them the name of the drugs), forbidding doctors from giving written recs for diagnostic tests to be done elsewhere etc. A certain hospital which has long been doing these things now also refuses to allow use of already performed test results and scans -- if you want to see a doctor in their hospital you must repeat tests in their hospital. Doesn't matter how recently it was already done nor how reputable the facility that did it.

And then there are the computer algorithms that automatically tack on unnecessary meds (paracetemol, vitamins) based on diagnosis not even ordered by or known to the doctor.

I have observed Thai medical care for over 3 decades. In the past 10 years especially the private hospitals have begun pulling out all stops in efforts to maximize profits and it is clear the trajectory will continue if an outside force does not step in to regulate it.

No reasonable person objects to the need for private hospitals to recover their costs and make a profit. But one can expect that they do so within ethical limits and with regard for patient welfare, and that is in many cases no longer happening.

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

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