DMK Crackdown?

[Traubert]

25 minutes ago, Number 6 said:

 exempt 30 maybe twice a year.

 

Thailand feels that two months stay for any tourist, about 15% of the entire year fulfills any persons holiday and that's all it's interested in providing.

 

 

I've said before I come on exempts maybe four or five times a year, but then again I AM a tourist, I stay for 6-11 days and I go home. Always have a flight booked, always have a hotel, always have the money. Never ever been asked to show any of it. Plus I fly in with the much maligned Chinese. Stroll through immigration while they fight for VOA forms and a pen.

 

This 'only so many exempts' doesn't ring true to me, but then again, I've never extended one.

[stevenl]

48 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

So, the expectation is that a tourist on holiday has a PhD in visa-ology?

 

Seems pretty reasonable that someone having a brand new visa in their passport that only says "ya can't work on this visa" would have a reasonable expectation of crossing the border unmolested as long as they enter by the "enter by" date and they don't work.   

 

It's not as if the majority of the 35 million visitors are tuned into TVF to learn the vagaries of land crossings vs DMK vs BKK and are up on the  state of selective enforcement of the nebulous rules.

 

The OP may be a windup.  But it's close enough to a lot of anecdotes that it's a good cautionary tale anyway.  Having left Thailand in 2018 after working legally for 6 years, then in and out on visa exempts, I won't be coming back for a visit.  The odds that I'll get turned away regardless of whether I have a visa are unacceptable.  And the burden to get an non immigrant visa aren't worth it for a 2 week holiday.  Not when I have the pick of hundreds of other destinations.

 

I'm sure they won't miss me.  But eventually, they will alienate enough tourists and it will take years to recover the higher $$$ end of the visitor spectrum.  Our holiday time is too valuable to take the risk.

 

On an aside, I get a kick out of some of the smug guys on here who lecture others on the proper visa, then I see threads with hundreds of panicked posts when the goalposts change on their "proper visa" and they find themselves on the other side of the lecture.  My heart goes out to the well meaning guys who get caught up in it.  But not for the preachers who look down on everyone who's violating their imaginary rules of conduct.

 

A tourist will have a tourist visa, visa on arrival or enter visa exempt.

No PhD required.

[BritTim]

26 minutes ago, stevenl said:

A tourist will have a tourist visa, visa on arrival or enter visa exempt.

No PhD required.

I agree that someone with a tourist visa, in particular, ought to be confident of being stamped in for 60 days. However, for over a year now, at certain entry points, this runs the risk of the immigration official deciding the tourist visa should not have been issued and denying entry. It really has become difficult, without a fair amount of research, to determine where and when you can be confident of being granted a tourist entry.

[impulse]

32 minutes ago, stevenl said:

A tourist will have a tourist visa, visa on arrival or enter visa exempt.

No PhD required.

 

Kind of screws up Bangkok's role as the perfect landing point for an extended holiday in SEA.  Think gap year adventures, for example.  Get an METV, land in BKK, spend some time in Thailand, then over to Cambodia for a few weeks, then back to BKK for a few weeks, then off to Vietnam for a few weeks, then back to BKK, then Malaysia... 

 

Legitimate tourists, but risking a turnaway each time they fly into Bangkok.  That's okay.  Some other city will fill and gladly be their base and take their $$$ in SEA.

 

 

[jmd8800]

DMK has been over done lately. Can we get back to posting about 'lawless' IOs in Poipet?

[Traubert]

28 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

Kind of screws up Bangkok's role as the perfect landing point for an extended holiday in SEA.  Think gap year adventures, for example.  Get an METV, land in BKK, spend some time in Thailand, then over to Cambodia for a few weeks, then back to BKK for a few weeks, then off to Vietnam for a few weeks, then back to BKK, then Malaysia... 

 

Legitimate tourists, but risking a turnaway each time they fly into Bangkok.  That's okay.  Some other city will fill and gladly be their base and take their $$$ in SEA.

 

 

Well no. That's exactly what a METV is meant for, and the entry stamps would speak for themselves.

 

Nobody who has got the hoof at immigration has ever described that situation. Well not on here anyway. Its the seven/eight month in a year on tourist visas fellers that are getting the boot.

[impulse]

1 hour ago, Traubert said:

Well no. That's exactly what a METV is meant for, and the entry stamps would speak for themselves.

 

Nobody who has got the hoof at immigration has ever described that situation. Well not on here anyway. Its the seven/eight month in a year on tourist visas fellers that are getting the boot.

 

That's a good point, but then you're asking tourists to have a PhD in visa-ology to understand the distinction and the consequences of getting an METV instead of a SETV, and correlating whether the horror stories like the OP (whether a windup or not) are happening to all visa holders, or just one type.  Not to mention those who pop over to a nearby Thai embassy for whatever visa they can get, only to find out they get the boot when they use that shiny new visa in good faith.

 

We're sitting here with the benefit of hundreds, even thousands of wasted hours frittered away reading TVF.  Expecting a noob tourist to have the same understanding of the nuances is pretty unreasonable.

 

On a side note, does anyone work for the airlines and know (not guessing) how this affect the airlines who let the boot-ee on the plane?  As I recall, they're obligated to pay a hefty fine, and to take the scofflaws back to where they came from...  That's got to be getting into their bottom line.

 

 

 

Edited April 30, 2019 by impulse

[Isaanbiker]

7 hours ago, SicTransit said:

A report by a new user taken from god knows which FB page. Mmmm. Sounds about credible as an amazing life story told by your bar stool buddy full of Chang.

I guess I'll never understand how people can drink that ugly stuff. There's Leo, but.....

 

   I guess you're right with your assumption, adding the location/ name does the rest. 

[LongTang]

5 hours ago, Number 6 said:

There is a typical pattern developing. Like the liars who can't scrape the 800k together or sort out their monthly income sources - these deadenders need to stop clogging the board with personal panic and whinging.

 

Get your stuff and get out. Is that not clear?

 

You are either on an O visa OR a B visa or use a TR once a year or exempt 30 maybe twice a year.

 

Thailand feels that two months stay for any tourist, about 15% of the entire year fulfills any persons holiday and that's all it's interested in providing.

 

Why is this so difficult to understand? What is the draw? Most of you live in Pattaya which is a dump. You'll just have to relocate to another country for cheap sex.

 

Get an OA? Just stop crying.

 

I'm not lecturing anyone on anything. The men at risk of not being let in the country know exactly who they are.

 

If I were you, I wasn't married I'd be long gone.

 

You have quite a big mouth for someone who is not lecturing anyone or anything...

 

Anyways, when your marriage breaks up, don't come here crying about your visa problems.

[bkk6060]

3 hours ago, impulse said:

 

That's a good point, but then you're asking tourists to have a PhD in visa-ology to understand the distinction and the consequences of getting an METV instead of a SETV, and correlating whether the horror stories like the OP (whether a windup or not) are happening to all visa holders, or just one type.  Not to mention those who pop over to a nearby Thai embassy for whatever visa they can get, only to find out they get the boot when they use that shiny new visa in good faith.

 

We're sitting here with the benefit of hundreds, even thousands of wasted hours frittered away reading TVF.  Expecting a noob tourist to have the same understanding of the nuances is pretty unreasonable.

 

 

 

 

 

 

But, ignorance of the rules is no excuse.  Most of us I think spend the time to know the rules of a place before going there.  And, it appears to me for some reason Thailand seems to be the destination for many who do not.

[lkv]

6 hours ago, Number 6 said:

 

Thailand feels that two months stay for any tourist, about 15% of the entire year fulfills any persons holiday and that's all it's interested in providing.

I spoke to Thailand, and Thailand said to me last year: " feel free to be a tourist for 10 months.". So I followed Thailand's advice.

 

I don't know why it's telling you those numbers....15% etc, but it must have been drunk.

Edited April 30, 2019 by lkv

[mstevens]

6 hours ago, Traubert said:

I've said before I come on exempts maybe four or five times a year, but then again I AM a tourist, I stay for 6-11 days and I go home. Always have a flight booked, always have a hotel, always have the money. Never ever been asked to show any of it. Plus I fly in with the much maligned Chinese. Stroll through immigration while they fight for VOA forms and a pen.

 

This 'only so many exempts' doesn't ring true to me, but then again, I've never extended one.

I imagine many of those being turned away had written on their arrival card that they were going to stay the full period of either 30 days (visa waiver) or 60 days (tourist visa). On top of a lot of back to back visits, that looks suspicious to an Immigration Officer. If someone plans to stay 5 or 10 or 15 or 20 days and has not arrived having just left Thailand a day or two earlier, it does not look suspicious and it's much less likely they will have a problem.

 

There is a clear trend that unless you have a non-immigrant class visa, a lot of back to back visits will result in scrutiny and the chance of entry not being granted.

 

 

Edited April 30, 2019 by mstevens

[impulse]

59 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

But, ignorance of the rules is no excuse.  Most of us I think spend the time to know the rules of a place before going there.  And, it appears to me for some reason Thailand seems to be the destination for many who do not.

 

I'd agree with you.  If only there were rules.

 

I can't seem to find them anywhere.  And they seem to vary from day to day, location to location, and IO to IO.

 

Edited April 30, 2019 by impulse

[stevenl]

7 hours ago, BritTim said:

I agree that someone with a tourist visa, in particular, ought to be confident of being stamped in for 60 days. However, for over a year now, at certain entry points, this runs the risk of the immigration official deciding the tourist visa should not have been issued and denying entry. It really has become difficult, without a fair amount of research, to determine where and when you can be confident of being granted a tourist entry.

Only if they're not a tourist but living here.

 

For common tourists the situation has not changed at all.

[stevenl]

7 hours ago, impulse said:

 

Kind of screws up Bangkok's role as the perfect landing point for an extended holiday in SEA.  Think gap year adventures, for example.  Get an METV, land in BKK, spend some time in Thailand, then over to Cambodia for a few weeks, then back to BKK for a few weeks, then off to Vietnam for a few weeks, then back to BKK, then Malaysia... 

 

Legitimate tourists, but risking a turnaway each time they fly into Bangkok.  That's okay.  Some other city will fill and gladly be their base and take their $$$ in SEA.

 

 

Show me any reports of those kind of people sent away. You won't find any, since they don't spend that long in Thailand they run the risk of being seen as working or living here.

[stevenl]

6 hours ago, impulse said:

 

That's a good point, but then you're asking tourists to have a PhD in visa-ology to understand the distinction and the consequences of getting an METV instead of a SETV, and correlating whether the horror stories like the OP (whether a windup or not) are happening to all visa holders, or just one type.  Not to mention those who pop over to a nearby Thai embassy for whatever visa they can get, only to find out they get the boot when they use that shiny new visa in good faith.

 

We're sitting here with the benefit of hundreds, even thousands of wasted hours frittered away reading TVF.  Expecting a noob tourist to have the same understanding of the nuances is pretty unreasonable.

 

On a side note, does anyone work for the airlines and know (not guessing) how this affect the airlines who let the boot-ee on the plane?  As I recall, they're obligated to pay a hefty fine, and to take the scofflaws back to where they came from...  That's got to be getting into their bottom line.

 

 

 

Someone living here is not using his tourist visa in good faith.

[mikebell]

I was in DMK two weeks ago and IOs were stopping black travellers en route to Immigration and checking docs on the corridor.

[jacko45k]

17 hours ago, belfast3 said:

I don't think that will help in every case, there are reports of people being denied on a SETV and even METV. 

And ED Visas.

[brewsterbudgen]

I imagine many of those being turned away had written on their arrival card that they were going to stay the full period of either 30 days (visa waiver) or 60 days (tourist visa). On top of a lot of back to back visits, that looks suspicious to an Immigration Officer. If someone plans to stay 5 or 10 or 15 or 20 days and has not arrived having just left Thailand a day or two earlier, it does not look suspicious and it's much less likely they will have a problem.
 
There is a clear trend that unless you have a non-immigrant class visa, a lot of back to back visits will result in scrutiny and the chance of entry not being granted.
 
 

There is no requirement to state how long you plan to stay in Thailand on the TM6 card.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

[mstevens]

5 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

There is no requirement to state how long you plan to stay in Thailand on the TM6 card.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
 

I don't know what the TM6 is but on the arrivals card when I last flew in was a section to list how long you will stay, which I duly filled in. Are you saying that completing that section is optional?

 

 

Edited May 1, 2019 by mstevens

[BritManToo]

7 hours ago, impulse said:

On a side note, does anyone work for the airlines and know (not guessing) how this affect the airlines who let the boot-ee on the plane?  As I recall, they're obligated to pay a hefty fine, and to take the scofflaws back to where they came from...  That's got to be getting into their bottom line.

I'm thinking no fine and a full price ticket sold for an otherwise empty seat.

Worth $$$$$s to the airlines.

[BritManToo]

10 minutes ago, mstevens said:

I don't know what the TM6 is but on the arrivals card when I last flew in was a section to list how long you will stay, which I duly filled in. Are you saying that completing that section is optional?

I always enter the length of my VISA.

[jacko45k]

14 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

There is no requirement to state how long you plan to stay in Thailand on the TM6 card.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
 

There is a 'Length of Stay' Box, are you suggesting to leave it empty?

[BobbyL]

14 hours ago, MrBingley said:

A week ago I was only in line at swampy for ten minutes and saw several people getting grief from IOs. They didn't seem to want to let an Indian guy in and said he's been too many times. An older Indian guy before him had a long conversation with the IO before getting through. A young Asian guy who was next to me was asked "what are you doing in Thailand?" before handing over his passport. He was studying at Bangkok University and you'd think the IO would read his passport before greeting him like that. There was a definite change of atmosphere since my last visit there about a year ago. 

Very true when I came back over Songkran. You can sense they're just itching to pull people up. 

[BestB]

13 hours ago, BritManToo said:

I came in through DMK about 2 weeks back.

Easiest and quickest entry I've ever had, apart from the VoA area, immigration was deserted (9:30am).

Same experience 2 months ago. Easy and friendly. Also left from the same airport, had 10 days overstay and all officers were friendly and easy. 

[JackThompson]

12 hours ago, Number 6 said:

There is a typical pattern developing. Like the liars who can't scrape the 800k together or sort out their monthly income sources - these deadenders need to stop clogging the board with personal panic and whinging.

 

Get your stuff and get out. Is that not clear?

 

You are either on an O visa OR a B visa or use a TR once a year or exempt 30 maybe twice a year.

Where did you come up with one TR or 2 exempts?   What about the METV, which grants unlimited 60-day stays for 6 months?  Is that an "improper" Visa, because it doesn't conform to what some hardliners who control a few immigration entry-points think "should be"??

 

Where is it written down - exactly how long people can be here living a tourist-lifestyle?  That would be very useful information.  Maybe each entry-point could publish it's own rules, so people could have a clue.

 

The people who need to "get out" are the IO supervisors telling their subordinates to violate the Immigration Act - should "get out" of their jobs, and go straight to prison.  The subordinates can be re-trained, if they can give up the diet of hate they have been fed.

 

12 hours ago, Number 6 said:

Why is this so difficult to understand? What is the draw? Most of you live in Pattaya which is a dump. You'll just have to relocate to another country for cheap sex.

The sex-industry in Pattaya is primarily funded by short-term / occasional tourists who have no problems with immigration.  The second largest group funding that are wealthy expats who can meet whatever hurdles immigration throws up - money in the bank, agent fees, etc.

 

Those being hurt by all the immigration-crackdowns are not in these categories.  Opportunities for "cheap sex" exist in every country in SE Asia, so that's not the issue at all.  Immigration likes those who fund that industry here.

 

12 hours ago, Number 6 said:

Get an OA? Just stop crying.

A Non-O-A from one's home-country is a good way for over 50s to avoid dealing with the corrupt-factions within Thailand's immigration system.  Hopefully, one's passport-country is not on the other side of the planet, though - or one was going there anyway.

 

12 hours ago, Number 6 said:

I'm not lecturing anyone on anything. The men at risk of not being let in the country know exactly who they are.

And women.  Some of those reporting denied-entry on a lying rejection-stamp are women. 

 

12 hours ago, Number 6 said:

If I were you, I wasn't married I'd be long gone.

Agreed on this - if my wife wasn't Thai, I'd be living in Vietnam - but I'd miss the Thai people and culture.  Too bad a clique within immigration is working so hard to undermine the interests of the Thai people.

[visarunner]

How to tell that this story is true...................... A newbie share a story stolen from FB. 555.

 

Edited May 1, 2019 by visarunner

[JackThompson]

9 hours ago, impulse said:

On a side note, does anyone work for the airlines and know (not guessing) how this affect the airlines who let the boot-ee on the plane?  As I recall, they're obligated to pay a hefty fine, and to take the scofflaws back to where they came from...  That's got to be getting into their bottom line.

They seem to get to sell an unused-seat at "last minute" prices, so are quite happy with the situation.   What I'd like to know, is if the airline's agent, who sells those tickets to the arbitrarily detained (with lying rejection-stamps in their passports), gets a commission.

 

6 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

But, ignorance of the rules is no excuse.  Most of us I think spend the time to know the rules of a place before going there.  And, it appears to me for some reason Thailand seems to be the destination for many who do not.

There are no known "rules" here.  That's the problem. You can do everything according to the published rules/laws, and still be denied-entry based on a lie.  Similar for extensions from immigration offices - there are no rules that apply nationwide. 

 

The best anyone can do is try to keep up with what abuse, or lack thereof, this or that office or entry point has subjected law-abiding, well-meaning foreigners to recently - but that could change tomorrow.

 

6 hours ago, mstevens said:

There is a clear trend that unless you have a non-immigrant class visa, a lot of back to back visits will result in scrutiny and the chance of entry not being granted.

True at bad entry-points - but this is illegal, as there is no provision in the Immigration Act to deny entry on that basis.

 

3 hours ago, stevenl said:

Only if they're not a tourist but living here.

 

For common tourists the situation has not changed at all.

3 hours ago, stevenl said:

Someone living here is not using his tourist visa in good faith.

How long does a person need to stay out between entries to "not be living here" - according to what published definition?

 

We don't know what a "common tourist" is - as this is undefined.  Same with "living here" - which seems now to apply to the snowbirds being given hell by immigration, who would prefer they pay an agent to buy a retirement-extension (which they should not need for a 5-6 mo stay broken up in 2 visits - not going to put 800K in a bank or mo-xfer their pensions here). 

 

Basically, a hard-liner corrupt clique within immigration is at war with the permitted-stay rules available under the current laws.  They are at war with their own system, but taking it out on us to get their way, without proper rule/law changes.

[JackThompson]

14 minutes ago, mngmn said:

Who cares?  If Thais don't want you just leave them alone to enjoy their increasing domestic debt, falling exports, over priced baht and hordes of 'quality' short-stay tourists.  Apart from those with families here and anyone still attracted by the sex industry, I just don't understand what that draw is.

The "sex industry" is available everywhere in the region (and most of the world), so that isn't it.  I do not have sufficient experience in Vietnam to compare to that one - but I prefer Thai culture / people to anywhere else I have lived on the planet.  Immigration is the only problem. 

[Number 6]

8 hours ago, LongTang said:

 

You have quite a big mouth for someone who is not lecturing anyone or anything...

 

Anyways, when your marriage breaks up, don't come here crying about your visa problems.

Shall I show you the door or can you find it on your own?