Recommended air purifier?

[Captor]

20 minutes ago, CharlieH said:

In that link you provided, if you go to "product details" it states

 

"Japan Toray H-11 HEPA Filter"

 

Third paragraph end of the 2nd line......

 

Yes, and that H11 is an EPA filter, not Hepa.

[CharlieH]

Just now, Captor said:

Yes, and that H11 is an EPA filter, not Hepa.

I,m only giving you what it states, if you believe its wrong, so be it.

[Captor]

23 minutes ago, CharlieH said:

In that link you provided, if you go to "product details" it states

 

"Japan Toray H-11 HEPA Filter"

 

Third paragraph end of the 2nd line......

 

Actually it is not saying Hepa. It is saying this: กรองคาร์บอนถึง 3 ชั้น คือ Primary Filter, Japan Toray H11-level Filter, Activated Carbon-Filter ที่สามารถกรองฝุ่นที่มีขนาดเล็กกว่า 2.5 ไมครอนได้

 

Japan Toray H11-level filter ????

[CharlieH]

25 minutes ago, Captor said:

Actually it is not saying Hepa. It is saying this: กรองคาร์บอนถึง 3 ชั้น คือ Primary Filter, Japan Toray H11-level Filter, Activated Carbon-Filter ที่สามารถกรองฝุ่นที่มีขนาดเล็กกว่า 2.5 ไมครอนได้

 

Japan Toray H11-level filter ????

Ok, last time and I,m out, it states on the 2nd line of the 3rd patagraph above, "Japan Toray H-11grade HEPA filter."

 

Upto you, but here it is from the above screenshot......

[Captor]

19 minutes ago, CharlieH said:

Ok, last time and I,m out, it states on the 2nd line of the 3rd patagraph above Japan Toray H-11grade HEPA filter.

 

Upto you.

 

19 minutes ago, CharlieH said:

Ok, last time and I,m out, it states on the 2nd line of the 3rd patagraph above Japan Toray H-11grade HEPA filter.

 

Upto you.

It is saying that yes, but maybe you haven´t read the links I have sent before? This is according to an old standard. The current standard we have since 2009 In europe and the US states that H10-H12 is EPA. Which it says in other pages in the same webpage as well. I am sure it is a nice air purifier anyway but now when there is a higher standard than I prefer to have Hepa according to the current standard which has been in place 10 years at least already. Or it would even be better with Ultra filter H14-15. But I don´t know if there is that in air purifiers ????Probably not. But I am sure it will come. I have 13 in my vacuum cleaner and that is 7 years old.

So I will look into another brand or purifier.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Re your conversation above, I think you both should understand that historically, there's been a lot of weasel wording with the use of the term HEPA in the air purifiers industry. Even in the U.S., some manufacturers have used terms like "HEPA class" or "HEPA type" filters for those with somewhat less filtering capacity than what sometimes as a result led to another marketing term of "True HEPA" meaning the 99.97% down to 0.3 microns official U.S. govt standard.

 

In one of the clips I posted above, that particular chart referred to the H11 or E11 class filters as "Semi HEPA" filters. So really, my habit over time has been to not focus on whatever label any particular manufacturer chooses to give their filters... But instead, to look for whether the specs do or don't reference the specific ability to filter 99.97% down to 0.3 microns...  And, I don't believe I'm seeing that reference in the Xiaomi provided data for the 2S air purifier itself.

 

If Xiaomi's 2S model is in fact using a HEPA class or Semi HEPA filter with slightly lesser cleaning efficiency, that's not necessarily a bad thing and doesn't mean the purifier can't do a good job in someone's home. It just means that unit is going to be somewhat less efficient at taking the small particles out of the air.... But given the choice between using that purifier and using nothing, obviously using it is the far better choice.

 

Edited May 7, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

BTW, FWIW, in reading thru the Hatari unit's TH language user manual, it does appear to reference the actual HEPA standard. So they do make that claim... However, that unit also has a relatively low CADR of just over 100, so it's really designed for a relatively small room. The Xiaomi 2S unit claims a CADR of 300+....

 

 

 

Edited May 7, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Captor]

16 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

BTW, FWIW, in reading thru the Hatari unit's TH language user manual, it does appear to reference the actual HEPA standard. So they do make that claim... However, that unit also has a relatively low CADR of just over 100, so it's really designed for a relatively small room. The Xiaomi 2S unit claims a CADR of 300+....

 

 

 

I understand that cadr is the volume of the air passing or is processed by the purifier. And that is important to know indeed. But it is not a measure of particle size the purifier is taking out. There can still be smaller or bigger particles going through the purifier. But they pass more often. Depending on how good the filters are. Or am I thinking wrong?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

11 minutes ago, Captor said:

I understand that cadr is the volume of the air passing or is processed by the purifier. And that is important to know indeed. But it is not a measure of particle size the purifier is taking out. There can still be smaller or bigger particles going through the purifier. But they pass more often. Depending on how good the filters are. Or am I thinking wrong?

 

I think you'd have to be a scientist to figure that one out... which is better for any particular room size....

 

a 100 CADR unit that's filtering 99.97% down to 0.3 microns, vs

 

a 300 CADR unit that's filtering 95% down to 0.5 microns....

 

Remember, the purifier is always going to be fighting the intrusion of polluted air from outside, and its output needs to outpace the input of bad air... So having a higher CADR unit can be of some value in that regard....

 

In the past, I remember reading some posts by members here with the Hatari purifiers, I think out of CM when the air was bad up there, complaining that their Hatari units couldn't get the PM2.5 levels in their homes/rooms below a certain not insignificant levels...

 

So to me, it's not so simple as to only look at the filter class... But also needing to consider the air delivery capability, the sizing for the room, and the occupant's ability to limit the intrusion of outside air... all of those are going to play a role in just how low you can drive the PM2.5 levels in any given setting.

 

Edited May 7, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[kekalot]

Lazada is not different to Amazon, it's mostly particulars selling on there, not companies.

SOME companies sell directly on Lazada (or have authorized dealers)

but the rest of it is just people reselling (well over majority)

 

the link on page 6 for the 2s was not listed by Xiaomi, It's sold by Ocean World

also you can tell they just downloaded a bunch of pictures off the internet

as far as the specs in text goes, what they copied might be right, it might also be wrong. (you'll see a bit later down the post)

but here is what you should be looking.

 

note: this is for the blue filter, the green (formaldehyde) or purple (antibacterial) ones are not on there (didn't search hard)

one thing is sure, if you buy non-genuine filters from Lazada, Aliexpress (or wherever) your 2s will give you a hard time because the genuine ones have a NFC chip at the bottom

 

also, the guy who posted the clever picture of just the filter with a Hatari fan at the top is right, this is technically all this machine is (unless you need smart features)

 

https://store.mi.com/in/item/3182700013

 

https://www.mi.com/global/air/filter/

"Ultra-dense H11-grade HEPA filter

Filters up to 99.3% of PM0.3

HEPA (High-efficiency Particulate Arrestance) is frequently used in hospitals and labs to filter out micron-sized particles. Mi Air Purifier uses an ultra-dense Toray PP and PET HEPA filter to trap PM2.5, PM0.3, pollen and other inhalable particles, allowing only clean air to pass through. It measures 7.7m when fully extended and effectively filters out 99% of PM0.3 particles and 99.99% of PM2.5 particles."

 

https://www.mi.com/global/air2/filter/

 

"How well a filter performs depends on its
purification ability and aerodynamic design.
Supplied by top-quality suppliers, the triple layers
consist of a primary filter, high-density EPA filter (
and activated carbon filter. Easy to use and
replace, its balance of power and quality is
what makes Mi Air Purifier 2 so effective."

 

those 3 different pages are all from Xiaomi website. so as you can see it's not always that clear (hoping it's just mistranslated)

 

1. "Ultra dense EPA"

2. "Ultra-dense H11-grade HEPA "

3. "High-density EPA filter"

 

also, this is an interesting read on the subject

http://www.richardbarrow.com/2018/03/using-the-mi-air-purifier-to-beat-the-bangkok-smog/

 

I have that small meter at home, but by itself sometimes I wonder if it's accurate or not. (still haven't used my 2s to compare meters, waiting to move soon)

 

 

Edited May 7, 2019 by kekalot

[Captor]

1 hour ago, kekalot said:

Lazada is not different to Amazon, it's mostly particulars selling on there, not companies.

SOME companies sell directly on Lazada (or have authorized dealers)

but the rest of it is just people reselling (well over majority)

 

the link on page 6 for the 2s was not listed by Xiaomi, It's sold by Ocean World

also you can tell they just downloaded a bunch of pictures off the internet

as far as the specs in text goes, what they copied might be right, it might also be wrong. (you'll see a bit later down the post)

but here is what you should be looking.

 

note: this is for the blue filter, the green (formaldehyde) or purple (antibacterial) ones are not on there (didn't search hard)

one thing is sure, if you buy non-genuine filters from Lazada, Aliexpress (or wherever) your 2s will give you a hard time because the genuine ones have a NFC chip at the bottom

 

also, the guy who posted the clever picture of just the filter with a Hatari fan at the top is right, this is technically all this machine is (unless you need smart features)

 

https://store.mi.com/in/item/3182700013

 

https://www.mi.com/global/air/filter/

"Ultra-dense H11-grade HEPA filter

Filters up to 99.3% of PM0.3

HEPA (High-efficiency Particulate Arrestance) is frequently used in hospitals and labs to filter out micron-sized particles. Mi Air Purifier uses an ultra-dense Toray PP and PET HEPA filter to trap PM2.5, PM0.3, pollen and other inhalable particles, allowing only clean air to pass through. It measures 7.7m when fully extended and effectively filters out 99% of PM0.3 particles and 99.99% of PM2.5 particles."

 

https://www.mi.com/global/air2/filter/

 

"How well a filter performs depends on its
purification ability and aerodynamic design.
Supplied by top-quality suppliers, the triple layers
consist of a primary filter, high-density EPA filter (
and activated carbon filter. Easy to use and
replace, its balance of power and quality is
what makes Mi Air Purifier 2 so effective."

 

those 3 different pages are all from Xiaomi website. so as you can see it's not always that clear (hoping it's just mistranslated)

 

1. "Ultra dense EPA"

2. "Ultra-dense H11-grade HEPA "

3. "High-density EPA filter"

 

also, this is an interesting read on the subject

http://www.richardbarrow.com/2018/03/using-the-mi-air-purifier-to-beat-the-bangkok-smog/

 

I have that small meter at home, but by itself sometimes I wonder if it's accurate or not. (still haven't used my 2s to compare meters, waiting to move soon)

 

 

Yes it is a bit messy the whole information about this air purifier. Makes me believe it is not real Hepa anyway.

Not according to the current standard.

For the moment I am looking into other brands. I am happy to pay a lot more if only I know what I get. I have allergy problems and also of course the normal PM2,5, PM10 and smaller I want to get rid off. That is worth a lot for me to get the right (best) product. I will look into Sharp, Coway, Philips, Daikin, Blueair and Samsung as well.

Thanks for the info.

[motdaeng]

4 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

... that unit also has a relatively low CADR of just over 100 ...

 

be carfully, your thai reading is wrong. it means 101 cubic foot per minute. that means the CADR is 171.6 m3/h, and that is not too bad!

 

by the way, i have different air purifiers : hatari / sharp / xiaomi pro. i am happy with all devices. there are in use nearly 24/7 ...

 

with my PM2.5 dedector i can check the efficiency ... and i also can make my own decision when to change the filter. if the reading on the outlet is more than 3 µg/m3, it is time for a new filter ...

Edited May 7, 2019 by motdaeng

[CharlieH]

"by the way, i have different air purifiers : hatari / sharp / xiaomi pro. i am happy with all devices. there are in use nearly 24/7 ..."

 

How would you rate the operating noise on those machines you have please ?

[Captor]

Yes, thai I would love to hear about as well. Don´t want them to loud when on slow speed (which is the most time I believe). My Coway is down to 20db about 98% of the time. Can almost not hear it from 1 m.

[motdaeng]

16 minutes ago, CharlieH said:

How would you rate the operating noise on those machines you have please ?

 

i use the air purifier only on full speed (max for 1 h), when i have been away and when i need to clear the polluted air in my house (new house, pvc windows, relatively airtight).

 

normally all air purifier are running during the day and during the night on low speed (sleep mode), that means the noise level is very little and not an issue at all.

 

sure, on full speed all device are loud, but much less comparing with an aircon on power cooling ... 
 

[Captor]

32 minutes ago, motdaeng said:

 

i use the air purifier only on full speed (max for 1 h), when i have been away and when i need to clear the polluted air in my house (new house, pvc windows, relatively airtight).

 

normally all air purifier are running during the day and during the night on low speed (sleep mode), that means the noise level is very little and not an issue at all.

 

sure, on full speed all device are loud, but much less comparing with an aircon on power cooling ... 
 

They all have about the same noise level when idling (lowest speed)?

 

I always run my Coway APM-1010DH in the pollen season here in Sweden. That is about 5-6 weeks. After that I put it away. It is running 24/7 that time. In the night when dark it automatically sences the darkness and goes down in sleeping mode.

Then it is absolutely quiet. If there comes dirt in the air it starts up on lowest speed for maybe 1-2 minutes and then down to sleeping mode again. I never wake up when that happen. I never touch it during this 6 weeks.

The new air purifiers I now are planning to buy are for Bangkok though. That is a townhome with a lot of traffic outside so there is almost every 3 days a layer of dirt/pollution on the floor from the traffic. We have probably the same in our lungs. So I think that must be a strong air purifier.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

4 hours ago, kekalot said:

"Ultra-dense H11-grade HEPA filter

Filters up to 99.3% of PM0.3

 

There's the key info.... those specs you quote above are less than the true HEPA standard specified by the U.S. govt., which is 99.97% of particles down to the size of 0.3 microns.

 

[kekalot]

7 hours ago, motdaeng said:

<snip>

with my PM2.5 detector i can check the efficiency ... and i also can make my own decision when to change the filter. if the reading on the outlet is more than 3 µg/m3, it is time for a new filter ...

 

did you ever check the difference between all the pm meters? I read some reviews of the xiaomi 2 (not 2s) that it was quite off compared to the AirVisual (and some other Egg one)

I have one from Makerspace on FB i'll be able to check it in a few weeks but just curious mostly

[Captor]

3 hours ago, kekalot said:

 

did you ever check the difference between all the pm meters? I read some reviews of the xiaomi 2 (not 2s) that it was quite off compared to the AirVisual (and some other Egg one)

I have one from Makerspace on FB i'll be able to check it in a few weeks but just curious mostly

No i have so far concentrate on the purifier. Please let me know if you find some that is reliable. And also about the Makerspace ????

[motdaeng]

5 hours ago, kekalot said:

 

did you ever check the difference between all the pm meters? I read some reviews of the xiaomi 2 (not 2s) that it was quite off compared to the AirVisual (and some other Egg one)

I have one from Makerspace on FB i'll be able to check it in a few weeks but just curious mostly

unfortunately the xiaomi pro and my own portable PM2.5 detector (only a cheap one, 1'400 thb) seems to be not so accurate.

 

i did some tests with different PM2.5 detectors. with this results / conclusion : within the low PM2.5 µg/m3 numbers they are

small differences, with higher numbers the differences are bigger.

 

having a PM2.5 meter (or air purifier with a meter) gives you at least an indication in which range the air quality is inside your

room / house. as an example, i keep the bedrooms PM2.5 under 7 µg/m3, i think that should be fine ...

Edited May 7, 2019 by motdaeng

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

9 hours ago, Captor said:

No i have so far concentrate on the purifier. Please let me know if you find some that is reliable. And also about the Makerspace ????

 

As I've mentioned before, the Sndway SW 825 sensor seems to be very reliable and accurate, and its results track very well with the other sources like AirVisual and AQICN.org data.

 

[Captor]

11 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

As I've mentioned before, the Sndway SW 825 sensor seems to be very reliable and accurate, and its results track very well with the other sources like AirVisual and AQICN.org data.

 

I would like to be able to measure PM1.0 and PM10 also beside PM2,5. What do you think about this:

 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33011551393.html?productId=33011551393&productSubject=Air-Quality-Detector-Meter-Monitor-LCD-Multifunctional-Operating-System-for-Indoor-Formaldehyde-HCHO-PM1-0-PM2&spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.6e25109cC8kJ5S&algo_pvid=b7856786-8a7c-4dc0-a18c-a5760e89df3b&algo_expid=b7856786-8a7c-4dc0-a18c-a5760e89df3b-27&btsid=997ebd51-2f0c-493b-b549-63a20460881a&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_7,searchweb201603_52

 

I am looking for Sndway but I have not found anything like that so far. Actually this came up when I searched Sndway.

 

And what about using aliexpress to Bangkok? I have problem to understand Lazada. They do not translate so much to english I believe. But Aliexpress seems to do everything right.

 

[fishtank]

The few things I have ordered from Aliexpress have tuned up ok but took a long time.

[Captor]

3 hours ago, fishtank said:

The few things I have ordered from Aliexpress have tuned up ok but took a long time.

OK, thanks. I will give it a try and order the meter. I hope the mailman will be able to read and understand the address in Bangkok in english language ????

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

11 hours ago, Captor said:

I would like to be able to measure PM1.0 and PM10 also beside PM2,5. What do you think about this:

 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33011551393.html?productId=33011551393&productSubject=Air-Quality-Detector-Meter-Monitor-LCD-Multifunctional-Operating-System-for-Indoor-Formaldehyde-HCHO-PM1-0-PM2&spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.6e25109cC8kJ5S&algo_pvid=b7856786-8a7c-4dc0-a18c-a5760e89df3b&algo_expid=b7856786-8a7c-4dc0-a18c-a5760e89df3b-27&btsid=997ebd51-2f0c-493b-b549-63a20460881a&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_7,searchweb201603_52

 

I am looking for Sndway but I have not found anything like that so far. Actually this came up when I searched Sndway.

 

And what about using aliexpress to Bangkok? I have problem to understand Lazada. They do not translate so much to english I believe. But Aliexpress seems to do everything right.

 

 

Here's the link for the Sndway SW-825 on Aliexpress.... It's listed as a good price at $45+ right now... I've bought two of them from this manufacturer's store in the past, and they both arrived to BKK just fine in less than two weeks from my order.

 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Air-Quality-Monitor-Mini-Laser-PM2-5-Monitor-Wall-mounted-Inovafitness-PM2-5-Detector-Gas-monitor/32826759103.html

 

The unit only displays a PM2.5 value in micrograms, along with temperature and relative humidity. The PM2.5 reading would include the larger PM10 particles, AFAIK, but would not include the smaller PM1.0 particles.

 

In Bangkok, between PM2.5 and PM10 levels, it's almost always the PM2.5 values that are the greater health concern and typically drive the AQI readings each day. 

 

Regarding the unit you linked to above, everything I see in the product description looks OK... But, FWIW, I've never heard of or seen that particular unit or brand before. And, and this is something I always look for on AliExpress, there's zero mention in the listing of number of units sold or rating from customer reviews.

 

By comparison, if you look at the Sndway listing, you'll see it showing 2900+ orders, 1000+ customer ratings, and a rating score of 4.8 on a scale of 5, including 85% rated at 5 stars.  It appears to be, by far, the best selling air quality monitor listed on Aliexpress.

 

Edited May 9, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Captor]

59 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Here's the link for the Sndway SW-825 on Aliexpress.... It's listed as a good price at $45+ right now... I've bought two of them from this manufacturer's store in the past, and they both arrived to BKK just fine in less than two weeks from my order.

 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Air-Quality-Monitor-Mini-Laser-PM2-5-Monitor-Wall-mounted-Inovafitness-PM2-5-Detector-Gas-monitor/32826759103.html

 

The unit only displays a PM2.5 value in micrograms, along with temperature and relative humidity. The PM2.5 reading would include the larger PM10 particles, AFAIK, but would not include the smaller PM1.0 particles.

 

In Bangkok, between PM2.5 and PM10 levels, it's almost always the PM2.5 values that are the greater health concern and typically drive the AQI readings each day. 

 

Regarding the unit you linked to above, everything I see in the product description looks OK... But, FWIW, I've never heard of or seen that particular unit or brand before. And, and this is something I always look for on AliExpress, there's zero mention in the listing of number of units sold or rating from customer reviews.

 

By comparison, if you look at the Sndway listing, you'll see it showing 2900+ orders, 1000+ customer ratings, and a rating score of 4.8 on a scale of 5, including 85% rated at 5 stars.  It appears to be, by far, the best selling air quality monitor listed on Aliexpress.

 

OK thanks. Maybe I can find another seller there. What about the power cord? Is it same as in Thailand? 220v, 50Hz and 3 or 2 holes? I guess the power cord is for charging a bettery inside. Or maybe the charging is by USB.

 

OK I have now found out that it is USB charging! But some say it is poor battery time. Only 3 hour! That is not so long. Maybe there is fan inside using a lot of power.

Edited May 9, 2019 by Captor

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

28 minutes ago, Captor said:

OK thanks. Maybe I can find another seller there. What about the power cord? Is it same as in Thailand? 220v, 50Hz and 3 or 2 holes? I guess the power cord is for charging a bettery inside. Or maybe the charging is by USB.

 

OK I have now found out that it is USB charging! But some say it is poor battery time. Only 3 hour! That is not so long. Maybe there is fan inside using a lot of power.

 

Regarding the Sndway unit, it does have a rechargeable, non-removable lithium battery inside.... that recharges via a micro USB cable that comes with the unit. AFAIR, the package doesn't come with the actual wall plug part, just the USB cable. But I've got a million micro USB wall plugs at home from past phone purchases, so I just used one of those.

 

I think in general, the unit's meant to be kept plugged in at home, either into a computer's USB jack or an AC outlet using the USB cable and a wall plug. The battery is mainly for if you want to take the unit outside or when traveling.  The way it works on battery power (when not plugged in), once you turn it on, it stays on for like a half hour, and then automatically shuts off to save battery life.

 

When plugged into an AC power outlet, once turned on, the display and unit will remain on until you manually turn it off.

 

The battery feature is nice if I want to take the unit outside, and see how the readings are out on the street, or at my local mall, compared to my readings indoor at home. But frankly, I have one unit in my living room and one unit in my master bedroom, and both stay there plugged in 99.9% of the time.

 

 

[Captor]

50 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Regarding the Sndway unit, it does have a rechargeable, non-removable lithium battery inside.... that recharges via a micro USB cable that comes with the unit. AFAIR, the package doesn't come with the actual wall plug part, just the USB cable. But I've got a million micro USB wall plugs at home from past phone purchases, so I just used one of those.

 

I think in general, the unit's meant to be kept plugged in at home, either into a computer's USB jack or an AC outlet using the USB cable and a wall plug. The battery is mainly for if you want to take the unit outside or when traveling.  The way it works on battery power (when not plugged in), once you turn it on, it stays on for like a half hour, and then automatically shuts off to save battery life.

 

When plugged into an AC power outlet, once turned on, the display and unit will remain on until you manually turn it off.

 

The battery feature is nice if I want to take the unit outside, and see how the readings are out on the street, or at my local mall, compared to my readings indoor at home. But frankly, I have one unit in my living room and one unit in my master bedroom, and both stay there plugged in 99.9% of the time.

 

 

Ah.. that is very good. Me too also have a lot of USB wall plugs laying around ewerywere. Both micro and normal. It will be nice to use one of them for once????

Thanks for the info. Again! You have been very helpful.

Edited May 9, 2019 by Captor

[gamesgplayemail]

hello, can you confirm that xiaomi pro is the best pair purifier for 5000 thb ? or which one should i buy ? Thank you.

 

https://www.lazada.co.th/catalog/?q=xiaomi+purifier+pro

 

https://shopee.co.th/search?keyword=xiaomi purifier pro

[Captor]

I have bought Coway AP-1516 Storm with real Hepa filter.

Xiaomi don´t use the same Hepa standard. They call it Hepa but it is an old standard not used anymore in west.

 

https://www.coway-thailand.com/product/7984/ap-1516d-storm-