White Culture

[webfact]

Death tolls rise in surging Israel-Gaza fighting

By Nidal al-Mughrabi and Jeffrey Heller

 

Palestinians gather around a building hit by an Israeli air strike, in the southern Gaza Strip May 5, 2019. REUTERS/Ibraheem Abu Mustafa

 

GAZA/JERUSALEM (Reuters) - Rockets and missiles from Gaza killed four civilians in Israel while Israeli strikes killed 19 Palestinians, more than half of them civilians, in surging cross-border fighting on Sunday, according to Gazan officials and the Israeli military.

 

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said he ordered the military to continue "massive strikes" against Gaza's ruling Hamas group and Islamic Jihad in the most serious border clashes since a spate of fighting in November.

 

Israel's military said that more than 600 rockets and other projectiles - over 150 of them intercepted by its Iron Dome anti-missile system - have been fired at southern Israeli cities and villages since Friday.

 

It said it attacked more than 260 targets belonging to Gaza militant groups. Gaza officials said Israeli air strikes and artillery fire killed 27 people, including 14 civilians, since Friday.

 

A rocket that hit a house in Ashkelon on Sunday killed a 58-year-old man, police said. He was the first such Israeli civilian fatality since the seven-week Gaza war in 2014.

 

Another rocket strike killed a factory worker, a hospital official said. The military said a civilian was killed near the border by an anti-tank missile fired at his car from Gaza and a fourth died when a rocket struck the city of Ashdod.

 

In Gaza, militant groups identified eight fighters killed in Israeli strikes, while medical officials said that nine civilians also died, including a couple and their baby daughter.

 

In what it said was a separate, targeted attack, Israel's military killed Hamed Ahmed Al-Khodary, a Hamas commander. The military said he was responsible for transferring funds from Iran to armed factions in Gaza. Hamas confirmed Khodary had been killed.

 

The attack on his car was the first such killing by Israel of a top militant since the war five years ago. Israel had suspended what Palestinians call an assassination policy in an attempt to lower tensions.

 

Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh issued a statement late on Sunday saying his group was not seeking a broader conflict and held out the possibility of a ceasefire, though sirens warning of rocket fire continued to sound in Israeli cities into the night.

 

SIRENS AND EXPLOSIONS

The sounds of sirens and explosions reverberated on both sides of the frontier on Sunday, fraying nerves and keeping schools closed.

 

Israel halted supplies from its main natural gas field. The Tamar field's offshore production platform is in range of Palestinian rockets. Israel also stopped fuel imports into Gaza through the main Kerem Shalom crossing.

 

The latest round of violence began two days ago when an Islamic Jihad sniper fired at Israeli troops, wounding two soldiers, according to the Israeli military.

 

Islamic Jihad accused Israel of delaying implementation of previous understandings brokered by Egypt in an effort to end violence and ease blockaded Gaza's economic hardship.

 

This time, Israeli strategic affairs analysts said, both Islamic Jihad and Hamas militants appeared to believe they had some leverage to press for concessions from Israel, where independence day celebrations begin on Wednesday.

 

In two weeks Israel is also hosting the Eurovision Song Contest in Tel Aviv, the target of a Gazarocket attack in March. That attack caused no damage. On Sunday sirens sounded in the city of Rehovot, 17 km (10.5 miles) southeast of Tel Aviv.

 

Netanyahu, who doubles as defence minister, convened his security cabinet, which issued a statement saying it had ordered the military "to continue its strikes and to prepare for the next stages".

 

RAMADAN APPROACHING

For residents in Gaza, the escalation comes a day before the Muslim holy month of Ramadan begins in the territory on Monday. It is traditionally a time for prayer, family feasts to break a daylight fast and shopping.

 

Among the 14 Gazan civilians killed since Friday were a 14-month-old baby and the baby's aunt, according to the health ministry. Israel's military said the intelligence information showed they were killed by a misfired Palestinian rocket.

 

In Gaza, two Palestinian human rights groups described the cause of their deaths as an explosion with an as yet undetermined source.

 

U.N. Secretary-General Antonio Guterres condemned the firing of rockets into Israel and urged all parties to "exercise maximum restraint". A U.N. envoy said it was working with Egypt to try to end the fighting.

 

Israeli bombings in Gaza destroyed four multi-storey structures. Witnesses said the Israeli military had warned people inside to evacuate the buildings, which it alleged housed Hamas security facilities, before they were hit.

 

Saeed Al-Nakhala, owner of a clothing store in one of the buildings, said he had no time to save his merchandise.

 

"I was together with my son in the shop, there was a big noise and then another and people started to run. We left everything behind and escaped," said Nakhala.

 

Some 2 million Palestinians live in Gaza, the economy of which has suffered years of Israeli and Egyptian blockades as well as recent foreign aid cuts and sanctions by the Palestinian Authority, Hamas's West Bank-based rival.

 

Israel says its blockade is necessary to stop weapons reaching Hamas, with which it has fought three wars since the group seized control of Gaza in 2007, two years after Israel withdrew its settlers and troops from the area.

 

(Writing by Jeffrey Heller; Editing by John Stonestreet, Raissa Kasolowsky and David Goodman)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2019-05-06

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[ezzra]

Nothing ever change in this region, every few years wars, killing and destroying each other, than truce and then all over again, there will never be peace between the warring nations as bridging the divide is just unattainable in ideologies, preservation and value of life and the need to look past pride and honor and misguided dreams, so let the killing and destruction start... 

[Tug]

This particular flare up has much to do with the trump administrations policy’s kinda like throwing a match in dry pine needles 

[Srikcir]

Thank goodness Kushner will be announcing his Israel-Palestine peace plan soon despite rejection from Palestinian leadership. The plan will pull back from long-standing mentions of a two-state solution with the Palestinians and accept Jerusalem as Israel's capital. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/05/kushner-middle-east-plan-mention-state-solution-190503070300927.html

Might Trump nominate Kushner for a Nobel Peace prize as well as Trump's own nominations?

[bert bloggs]

While Hamas is in power ,they will keep attacking Israel , who can blame them for retaliating?

[ezzra]

31 minutes ago, bert bloggs said:

While Hamas is in power ,they will keep attacking Israel , who can blame them for retaliating?

Actually it's the islamic Jihad faction that started the barrage of rockets and missiles onto the israel side, that group is there to disrupt and halt any attempts for  and peace no matter if it''s good for Gaza or not, and all the while israel and Hamas were negotiating for cease-fire in Cairo, so 750 rockets and missiles, utter destruction of many structures in Gaza, 30 or so dead on both sides they're talking truce again... 

[thaibeachlovers]

5 hours ago, ezzra said:

Nothing ever change in this region, every few years wars, killing and destroying each other, than truce and then all over again, there will never be peace between the warring nations as bridging the divide is just unattainable in ideologies, preservation and value of life and the need to look past pride and honor and misguided dreams, so let the killing and destruction start... 

If Israel didn't illegally build settlements in occupied territory in breach of the Geneva convention, stopped harassing Palestinians on their own land and allowed a Palestinian state on the West bank it might possibly lead to something like, oh, a cessation of hostilities.

Treat people badly for long enough till they have no hope, and the consequences are as seen. Israel has the power, so it's up to them to make a meaningful move.

Israel is sowing the wind, and we know what happens when that is done.

Whatever happens in the future is on the heads of the present Israeli government.

[malagateddy]

Nothing ever change in this region, every few years wars, killing and destroying each other, than truce and then all over again, there will never be peace between the warring nations as bridging the divide is just unattainable in ideologies, preservation and value of life and the need to look past pride and honor and misguided dreams, so let the killing and destruction start... 

Perhaps China should mediate..after hamas are dealt with.
They could then easily lock both sides reps in a room without toilets..no food..limited water..tell them to focus their respective minds on a peace deal.
Don't think it would take even 3/4 days and BINGO..a workable political solution is found!!!![emoji6]

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[OneMoreFarang]

I wonder how this war would be if the USA would not supply Israel with any kind of weapons for billions of dollars.

Or the other way around: Imagine the Palestinians would have the same amount of fighter jets, helicopters, etc.

 

Israel is suppressing their neighbors since decades. And Israel occupies more and more land. Nobody should be surprised when the Palestinians are frustrated and fight back - any way they can.

 

And because that part of the world is still controlled by the USA Israel gets away with basically everything they do. Is that justice? Sure not! Will Trumps Jewish son in law solve that situation? Sure not. And then there are still people who wonder why the Palestinians are not just sitting still and hope for a better future.

[OneMoreFarang]

11 hours ago, puipuitom said:

Still, my experience and belief is, when the Palestinians had a free choice, and were not controlled by the guns of the terrorists, a peace treaty would be negociated in a couple of months...

Imagine the Israelis would not have all those weapons which the USA supplied and if they would not have the backing of the biggest military power in this world. I am sure they would also be willing to negotiate with the Palestinians.

Obviously there are war mongers on both sides. But look at the usual casualties in these conflict. 1 dead Israeli compared to 10 dead Palestinians is probably the norm in this very unfair fight.

[Scott]

Posts violating Fair Use Policy removed.

 

[Morch]

23 hours ago, Tug said:

This particular flare up has much to do with the trump administrations policy’s kinda like throwing a match in dry pine needles 

 

The Trump administration policies are more of a background factor as far as this particular flare up goes. Similar instances occurred on many past occasions, even way before Trump got into the White House. Not everything is about Trump.

[Morch]

22 hours ago, Srikcir said:

Thank goodness Kushner will be announcing his Israel-Palestine peace plan soon despite rejection from Palestinian leadership. The plan will pull back from long-standing mentions of a two-state solution with the Palestinians and accept Jerusalem as Israel's capital. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/05/kushner-middle-east-plan-mention-state-solution-190503070300927.html

Might Trump nominate Kushner for a Nobel Peace prize as well as Trump's own nominations?

 

And the relevancy of the above to the OP would be....?

 

Given the ongoing political divide among them, there is no unified/singular Palestinian leadership as such.

In the context of the OP, Palestinian leadership would denote Hamas (and to a lesser degree, Islamic Jihad). The standing positions of either got little to do with peace proposals or two-state solutions. The rejection on their part is not related to the Trump administration, or even to the supposed content of the current peace initiative.

[bert bloggs]

2 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Imagine the Israelis would not have all those weapons which the USA supplied and if they would not have the backing of the biggest military power in this world. I am sure they would also be willing to negotiate with the Palestinians.

Obviously there are war mongers on both sides. But look at the usual casualties in these conflict. 1 dead Israeli compared to 10 dead Palestinians is probably the norm in this very unfair fight.

If they did not have the weapons ,the Muslim s would have overun them and killed them all by now ,its what they do ,to any faith that is not theirs .

[Morch]

20 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

If Israel didn't illegally build settlements in occupied territory in breach of the Geneva convention, stopped harassing Palestinians on their own land and allowed a Palestinian state on the West bank it might possibly lead to something like, oh, a cessation of hostilities.

Treat people badly for long enough till they have no hope, and the consequences are as seen. Israel has the power, so it's up to them to make a meaningful move.

Israel is sowing the wind, and we know what happens when that is done.

Whatever happens in the future is on the heads of the present Israeli government.

 

For decades, the Palestinians opted out of the negotiations path. The rejectionist stance adopted led nowhere, and the same is true for the passive sentiment (whereby it's up to Israel/the World to sort things out). So when talking about "what if", it is perhaps worthwhile to reference Palestinian positions rather than assume imaginary ones fitting one's politics.

 

As for "sowing the wing", or "on the heads of" - this easily cuts both ways. Unless, of course, one is in the opinion that Palestinian leaders aren't accountable for the consequences of their decisions.

[BestB]

21 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

If Israel didn't illegally build settlements in occupied territory in breach of the Geneva convention, stopped harassing Palestinians on their own land and allowed a Palestinian state on the West bank it might possibly lead to something like, oh, a cessation of hostilities.

Treat people badly for long enough till they have no hope, and the consequences are as seen. Israel has the power, so it's up to them to make a meaningful move.

Israel is sowing the wind, and we know what happens when that is done.

Whatever happens in the future is on the heads of the present Israeli government.

Only this has nothing to do with westbank but all to do with gaza. 

 

Maybe if hamas stops digging tunnels , stops building and firing rockets, Israel will stop retaliating 

[OneMoreFarang]

18 minutes ago, bert bloggs said:

If they did not have the weapons ,the Muslim s would have overun them and killed them all by now ,its what they do ,to any faith that is not theirs .

Sounds like the Christian crusades...

[bert bloggs]

1 minute ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Sounds like the Christian crusades...

Or maybe the Normans who invaded Britain , we are talking about now ,so dont quote things that happened thousands of years ago , or i will start on the Muslim hordes who invaded Spain etc.

[Morch]

15 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I wonder how this war would be if the USA would not supply Israel with any kind of weapons for billions of dollars.

Or the other way around: Imagine the Palestinians would have the same amount of fighter jets, helicopters, etc.

 

Israel is suppressing their neighbors since decades. And Israel occupies more and more land. Nobody should be surprised when the Palestinians are frustrated and fight back - any way they can.

 

And because that part of the world is still controlled by the USA Israel gets away with basically everything they do. Is that justice? Sure not! Will Trumps Jewish son in law solve that situation? Sure not. And then there are still people who wonder why the Palestinians are not just sitting still and hope for a better future.

 

Israel managed without US military support (which only became a thing at the 70'), and regardless, the arms required to maintain control over civilian population cum armed resistance aren't really what it's about. For the other part of the bogus "equation" on offer, this would require the Palestinian side to have taken a whole different path in terms of historical decisions. Worth mentioning, though, that neighboring Arab nations nominally taking up the Palestinian cause were heavily armed and supported by the USSR.

 

Israel got long standing peace agreements in place with two of its neighbors (Egypt and Jordan). There is no "more and more land" occupied in the Gaza Strip, where most of the Palestinian violence comes from, whereas less of that on the West Bank - in which illegal Israeli settlements are growing.

 

The "Jewish" reference is on par with the other wide-brush strokes above. Like there's a shortage of US Jewish views expressing opposing views.

 

The choice, for the Palestinians, isn't necessarily between an armed struggle or waiting passively for a better future. Neither proved to advance their cause, which was only served by going down the path of negotiation and compromise,

[Morch]

3 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Imagine the Israelis would not have all those weapons which the USA supplied and if they would not have the backing of the biggest military power in this world. I am sure they would also be willing to negotiate with the Palestinians.

Obviously there are war mongers on both sides. But look at the usual casualties in these conflict. 1 dead Israeli compared to 10 dead Palestinians is probably the norm in this very unfair fight.

 

Are you as sure that the Palestinians are (or would be) just as willing to negotiate with the Israelis?

 

The casualty toll fallacy again? This isn't a schoolyard. Fights aren't meant to be fair. No questions asked as to what leadership (given the ratio above) would choose violence over and over again, or fail to invest its resources in defensive measures.

[OneMoreFarang]

20 minutes ago, bert bloggs said:

Or maybe the Normans who invaded Britain , we are talking about now ,so dont quote things that happened thousands of years ago , or i will start on the Muslim hordes who invaded Spain etc.

Please look at the American Christian fanatics now. It seems many of them want a big war because somewhere in the Bible there is a passage that this is necessary.

Unfortunately the Christian crusades and not something of the past. There are still enough fanatics out there.

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎5‎/‎6‎/‎2019 at 10:38 PM, OneMoreFarang said:

I wonder how this war would be if the USA would not supply Israel with any kind of weapons for billions of dollars.

Or the other way around: Imagine the Palestinians would have the same amount of fighter jets, helicopters, etc.

 

Israel is suppressing their neighbors since decades. And Israel occupies more and more land. Nobody should be surprised when the Palestinians are frustrated and fight back - any way they can.

 

And because that part of the world is still controlled by the USA Israel gets away with basically everything they do. Is that justice? Sure not! Will Trumps Jewish son in law solve that situation? Sure not. And then there are still people who wonder why the Palestinians are not just sitting still and hope for a better future.

One man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter. 

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎5‎/‎7‎/‎2019 at 3:00 PM, OneMoreFarang said:

Please look at the American Christian fanatics now. It seems many of them want a big war because somewhere in the Bible there is a passage that this is necessary.

Unfortunately the Christian crusades and not something of the past. There are still enough fanatics out there.

It's in Revelations, and the battle is Armageddon which they believe will be in the middle east. After the war is over, Jesus returns to rule the world.

They support Israel because they believe that without Israel there will be no Armageddon.

[OneMoreFarang]

I just read this interesting article and can recommend it.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/may/08/the-eurovision-boycott-row-confirms-it-palestinian-lives-dont-matter

 

[Morch]

6 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

One man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter. 

 

When no reasoned argument comes to mind, post a cliché.

 

[Morch]

 

@OneMoreFarang

 

What your recommend is yet another one-sided opinion column, which does a good job of presenting a partial picture, while complaining about similar practices. Not that it got a whole lot to do with the OP. 

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, Morch said:

 

@OneMoreFarang

 

What your recommend is yet another one-sided opinion column, which does a good job of presenting a partial picture, while complaining about similar practices. Not that it got a whole lot to do with the OP. 

Anything we read or watch or hear about that situation shows a partial picture. But this specific partial view seems to be pretty accurate. I read similar stories, also in other publications, often enough.

And what does it have to do with the surging death toll? Do you really have to ask? Maybe read the article again, or maybe for the first time. You couldn't have possibly missed that part about all those dead people?

[Morch]

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Anything we read or watch or hear about that situation shows a partial picture. But this specific partial view seems to be pretty accurate. I read similar stories, also in other publications, often enough.

And what does it have to do with the surging death toll? Do you really have to ask? Maybe read the article again, or maybe for the first time. You couldn't have possibly missed that part about all those dead people?

 

Not much in your posts recommends a particularly informed, as opposed to opinionated, take on things. As such, the recommendation doesn't carry a whole lot of weight - other than as the piece referenced pandering to your point of view. Echo chambers are a dime a dozen.

 

The point made earlier was that the author complains about biased and one-sided presentations, while at the same time making her case in a similar manner.

 

And sure, you could go on about "all them dead people". But to repeat the above, discussing that without almost any critical reference to choices made by the Palestinians and their leadership is rather dishonest.

 

To put things in a more immediate context, the current flare up, which was initiated by the Palestinian side, was a botched attempt to capitalize on a cluster of several upcoming events (including the horrid Eurovision). The underlying assumption was, apparently, that the Israeli government would be forced to trade further concessions (or speed up agreed upon items), in order to restore the peace, and avoid any disturbance with the extra-hyped international presence/coverage.

 

Even if one considers indiscriminately launching rockets at civilians acceptable, there remains a question of leadership's accountability when things go pear-shaped. In other words, the relevant Palestinian leaders were fully aware that there would be a response, and that it would translate to casualties. If you and the author believe that Israel, and Israel only, is responsible, guess we'll have to disagree.

Edited May 8, 2019 by Morch

[rabas]

On 5/6/2019 at 5:47 AM, webfact said:

The latest round of violence began two days ago when an Islamic Jihad sniper fired at Israeli troops, wounding two soldiers, according to the Israeli military. 

The Palestine Islamic Jihad (PIJ) is Iran's puppy. PIJ is an Islamic political and military group based in Gaza with several hundred members. From mid-April, the PIJ militias fired rockets from Gaza to Israeli targets.

 

Seems every time you dig down, you find Iran.

[OneMoreFarang]

8 hours ago, Morch said:

Even if one considers indiscriminately launching rockets at civilians acceptable, there remains a question of leadership's accountability when things go pear-shaped. In other words, the relevant Palestinian leaders were fully aware that there would be a response, and that it would translate to casualties. If you and the author believe that Israel, and Israel only, is responsible, guess we'll have to disagree.

It's obviously that not Israel alone is responsible. They are part of it but the Palestinians are obviously also responsible for the fighting and the dead.

About the rocket attacks: Are the targeted Israeli raids with fighter jets and attack helicopter in which regularly lots of civilians die any better?

If Israel would not have the backing of the USA they would have to sit down with the Palestinians and find reasonable solutions. Now the right wing Israel government does what they want and Trump just let them do it. Justice? Sure not!