Italian expat faces recklessness causing death charge over fatal boat collision

[snoop1130]

Italian expat faces recklessness causing death charge over fatal boat collision

By Tanyaluk Sakoot

 

Rawai fisherman San Malee, 74, later died from injuries sustained in the collision. Photo: Eakkapop Thongtub

 

PHUKET:-- The Italian expat involved in a boat collision over the Songkran Thai New Year holidays that resulted in the death of a 74-year-old Thai fisherman has been charged with recklessness causing death, police have confirmed.
 

The Italian, Giorgio Nastri, 64, was involved in the collision between his boat and a longtail being operated by 74-year-old Rawai resident San Malee off Koh Bon, off Phuket’s southeast coast, on the morning of Apr 14.

 

Mr San was brought ashore and rushed to hospital.

Full Story: https://www.thephuketnews.com/italian-expat-faces-recklessness-causing-death-charge-over-fatal-boat-collision-71373.php#CPUq91P5AH45yxgK.97

 

-- © Copyright Phuket News 2019-05-9

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[Aussieroaming]

I wonder who was actually at fault and whether either had their maritime licence. One thing guaranteed is that the Italian is guilty unless he was squeaky clean and can prove it.

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I don't see anything in the OP article in the way of facts or description that would give even the slightest clue of who was actually at fault in this boats collision. 

 

And yet, the surviving farang boat guy has been charged with recklessness causing death.  If his conduct really was reckless, how about some facts or evidence that actually supports that notion?

 

In the absence of that, it's just the all-to-commonplace "stick it to the farang" approach...because he/they have money to pay and this is our country, not theirs.

 

[Isaanbiker]

6 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

I don't see anything in the OP article in the way of facts or description that would give even the slightest clue of who was actually at fault in this boats collision. 

 

And yet, the surviving farang boat guy has been charged with recklessness causing death.  If his conduct really was reckless, how about some facts or evidence that actually supports that notion?

 

In the absence of that, it's just the all-to-commonplace "stick it to the farang" approach...because he/they have money to pay and this is our country, not theirs.

 

The Italian seems to have a yacht/boat that should have the right instruments to see other vehicles on the ocean while he's steering his craft. You can hardly blame the poor fisherman for not having any nautical instruments on board, can you? 

 

   Anyway, you can/must call it recklessness driving/steering when his boat hits a much smaller one.

 

   What chance would an older man have not to get hit by a much bigger and heavier boat? The Italian was of course not trying to kill anybody, and he just wanted to enjoy his hobby.

 

   Besides the 200 K for the hospital, the family is also asking for 1.5 million baht compensation for the poor bloke's death.

 

     It was a preventable accident, not knowing the law on the oceans, but I'd think that you should always be aware of what's in front of you. 

 

     

 

  

 

   

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

9 minutes ago, Isaanbiker said:

   Anyway, you can/must call it recklessness driving/steering when his boat hits a much smaller one.

 

Who hit who, and from what points on the boats???   I don't think the article actually details that....

[madmen]

12 minutes ago, Isaanbiker said:

The Italian seems to have a yacht/boat that should have the right instruments to see other vehicles on the ocean while he's steering his craft. You can hardly blame the poor fisherman for not having any nautical instruments on board, can you? 

 

   Anyway, you can/must call it recklessness driving/steering when his boat hits a much smaller one.

 

   What chance would an older man have not to get hit by a much bigger and heavier boat? The Italian was of course not trying to kill anybody, and he just wanted to enjoy his hobby.

 

   Besides the 200 K for the hospital, the family is also asking for 1.5 million baht compensation for the poor bloke's death.

 

     It was a preventable accident, not knowing the law on the oceans, but I'd think that you should always be aware of what's in front of you. 

 

     

 

  

 

   

What instruments will detect a wooden boat and send out a screaming alarm ? you cant be serious there is no such thing or the mega ships would be using them instead of running over small boats in shipping lanes

[JimSaints]

Another case of blaming the foreigner who has money they can extort from him - all about money and not about who is actually to blame

[madmen]

farang boats need bow cam

[Pattaya46]

1 hour ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

I don't see anything in the OP article in the way of facts or description that would give even the slightest clue of who was actually at fault in this boats collision. //

 

51 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Who hit who, and from what points on the boats???   I don't think the article actually details that.... //

On one side you have a not so big but fast fishing boat :

 

On the other side you have a slow low wooden rowing boat !

 

And members asking who hit who ??? 

 

Navigations rules say that the boat overtaking another must change its route to avoid collision, and in crossings a motor boat must give way to less maneuverable boats.

 

We don't know details, but in open sea a motor boat is usually at fault if collision with a rowing or sailing boat.

Edited May 9, 2019 by Pattaya46

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

10 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

 

We don't know details, but in open sea a motor boat is usually at fault if collision with a rowing or sailing boat.

 

Exactly my point... "Usually" ought not be the basis for bringing a criminal charge of causing death against someone. There ought to be fact and details that support it, and yet, nothing such supplied in the OP article.

 

If the police believe and are saying that the faster moving fishing boat plowed into the smaller, slower moving Thai boat, then they ought to say so...  But they aren't and haven't said that.... at least based on the OP article.

 

Where was the damage to the motored fishing boat... on the front end... on the side... from the articles, there seems to be no mention.

 

I'm not trying to argue the farang guy is innocent or blameless. But if he's guilty, at least give me something to hang that allegation on...
 

 

Edited May 9, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Psimbo]

15 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Exactly my point... "Usually" ought not be the basis for bringing a criminal charge of causing death against someone. There ought to be fact and details that support it, and yet, nothing such supplied in the OP article.

 

If the police believe and are saying that the faster moving fishing boat plowed into the smaller, slower moving Thai boat, then they ought to say so...  But they aren't and haven't said that.... at least based on the OP article.

 

Where was the damage to the motored fishing boat... on the front end... on the side... from the articles, there seems to be no mention.

 

I'm not trying to argue the farang guy is innocent or blameless. But if he's guilty, at least give me something to hang that allegation on...
 

 

Maybe you could come down here and investigate. I'll swap you for the next farang involved case in Bangkok.

[Pattaya46]

31 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

If the police believe and are saying that the faster moving fishing boat plowed into the smaller, slower moving Thai boat, then they ought to say so...  But they aren't and haven't said that.... at least based on the OP article.

I really fail to imagine any other scenario... 

This kind of heavy wooden boat does not go fast and cannot change of route quickly either, mainly when a 74 years old man is at the oars !

 

Any motor boat should have navigated far from it, by changing slightly its route long before crossing it, but of course that requires that someone was looking where the fast boat was going... and so many times I have seen all people at the back and nobody at the helm (and not in Thailand only...)

Edited May 9, 2019 by Pattaya46

[impulse]

From another linked article:

 

The fisherman, 74-year-old Rawai resident San Mali, was brought to Chalong Pier, where an ambulance was waiting to rush him to the Accident & Emergency Centre at the yet-to-open Chalong Hospital.

 

Mr San was later transferred to Vachira Phuket Hospital in Phuket Town.

 

Can't help but wonder if the outcome would have been different had they brought him to an open hospital first.

 

I'm also wondering who'll be in jail longer.  This guy, or the other 2 Italians banged up for just fishing?

 

I'm also wondering if it happened in the dark.  The accident was apparently reported at 10:30 AM, but no indication of the time it happened.

 

Edited May 10, 2019 by LeungKen
Reduce font size

[Enoon]

4 hours ago, Pattaya46 said:

I really fail to imagine any other scenario... 

This kind of heavy wooden boat does not go fast and cannot change of route quickly either, mainly when a 74 years old man is at the oars !

 

Any motor boat should have navigated far from it, by changing slightly its route long before crossing it, but of course that requires that someone was looking where the fast boat was going... and so many times I have seen all people at the back and nobody at the helm (and not in Thailand only...)

 

I would like to have a close look at the "rowing boat".

 

I suspect that the oars were used for maneuvering "on station" and that underneath that large chunky tiller is attached a small, steerable, motor.....for transit to/from the fishing ground.

 

If that is the case then the fishing boat could have been under power at the time, with the oars attached to the rowlocks and the blades resting inside the boat (as is the starboard oar in the photo).

 

Closer inspection needed before this becomes a simple case of powered not giving way to unpowered.

 

 

 

Edited May 9, 2019 by Enoon

[scorecard]

8 hours ago, madmen said:

What instruments will detect a wooden boat and send out a screaming alarm ? you cant be serious there is no such thing or the mega ships would be using them instead of running over small boats in shipping lanes

In other words the Italian should have been keeping a manual / visual check on what's around him.

[stevenl]

9 hours ago, Aussieroaming said:

I wonder who was actually at fault and whether either had their maritime licence. One thing guaranteed is that the Italian is guilty unless he was squeaky clean and can prove it.

 

 

 

9 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

I don't see anything in the OP article in the way of facts or description that would give even the slightest clue of who was actually at fault in this boats collision. 

 

And yet, the surviving farang boat guy has been charged with recklessness causing death.  If his conduct really was reckless, how about some facts or evidence that actually supports that notion?

 

In the absence of that, it's just the all-to-commonplace "stick it to the farang" approach...because he/they have money to pay and this is our country, not theirs.

 

 

9 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Who hit who, and from what points on the boats???   I don't think the article actually details that....

 

8 hours ago, JimSaints said:

Another case of blaming the foreigner who has money they can extort from him - all about money and not about who is actually to blame

If any of you would have read the original post, including the description of the accident, it would have been very clear the foreigner was at fault. Even the generally very critical TVF crowd reached that conclusion.

[Sealbash]

 
In the absence of that, it's just the all-to-commonplace "stick it to the farang" approach...because he/they have money to pay and this is our country, not theirs.
 

Not true


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Aussieroaming]

43 minutes ago, stevenl said:

 

 

 

If any of you would have read the original post, including the description of the accident, it would have been very clear the foreigner was at fault. Even the generally very critical TVF crowd reached that conclusion.

I didnt appropriate blame on either party and I quite rightly posted that the Italian would have to be squeaky clean in order to be found innocent. Take a breath and calm yourself down

[harrycallahan]

10 hours ago, Isaanbiker said:

The Italian seems to have a yacht/boat that should have the right instruments to see other vehicles on the ocean while he's steering his craft. You can hardly blame the poor fisherman for not having any nautical instruments on board

He wasn't in a destroyer. They use their eyes.

[LawrenceN]

9 hours ago, Pattaya46 said:

 

On one side you have a not so big but fast fishing boat :

 

On the other side you have a slow low wooden rowing boat !

 

And members asking who hit who ??? 

 

Navigations rules say that the boat overtaking another must change its route to avoid collision, and in crossings a motor boat must give way to less maneuverable boats.

 

We don't know details, but in open sea a motor boat is usually at fault if collision with a rowing or sailing boat.

I don't know where you came up with this rowboat idea. The article states the old guy was in a long-tailed boat, the tail being a shaft with a propeller on the end. They're quite common in those parts. I can't remember the last time I saw a Thai rowing a boat in open waters.

[animalmagic]

9 hours ago, JimSaints said:

Another case of blaming the foreigner who has money they can extort from him - all about money and not about who is actually to blame

 

Edited May 10, 2019 by animalmagic
Removed, can't be bothered

[whaleboneman]

Wooden boat was hit port side near the stern (left side near the back) so I would have to conclude that the farang was at fault regardless of whether Thai man was under power or rowing. RIP 74 year old fisher.

[mogandave]

What instruments will detect a wooden boat and send out a screaming alarm ? you cant be serious there is no such thing or the mega ships would be using them instead of running over small boats in shipping lanes

Radar

[mogandave]

 
I would like to have a close look at the "rowing boat".
 
I suspect that the oars were used for maneuvering "on station" and that underneath that large chunky tiller is attached a small, steerable, motor.....for transit to/from the fishing ground.
 
If that is the case then the fishing boat could have been under power at the time, with the oars attached to the rowlocks and the blades resting inside the boat (as is the starboard oar in the photo).
 
Closer inspection needed before this becomes a simple case of powered not giving way to unpowered.
 
 
 

Yes, the old hidden underwater motor trick...

I didn’t look that close, but I saw nothing that said the photos in the article were the actual vessels.

[30la]

Murder = Death Penalty!

[moe666]

10 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Exactly my point... "Usually" ought not be the basis for bringing a criminal charge of causing death against someone. There ought to be fact and details that support it, and yet, nothing such supplied in the OP article.

 

If the police believe and are saying that the faster moving fishing boat plowed into the smaller, slower moving Thai boat, then they ought to say so...  But they aren't and haven't said that.... at least based on the OP article.

 

Where was the damage to the motored fishing boat... on the front end... on the side... from the articles, there seems to be no mention.

 

I'm not trying to argue the farang guy is innocent or blameless. But if he's guilty, at least give me something to hang that allegation on...
 

 

Maybe the police are being responsible and waiting for the court to try the case. We do not have a right to all of the evidence one way or the other.

[malt25]

10 hours ago, Pattaya46 said:

I really fail to imagine any other scenario... 

This kind of heavy wooden boat does not go fast and cannot change of route quickly either, mainly when a 74 years old man is at the oars !

 

Any motor boat should have navigated far from it, by changing slightly its route long before crossing it, but of course that requires that someone was looking where the fast boat was going... and so many times I have seen all people at the back and nobody at the helm (and not in Thailand only...)

Care to explain how the boat was underway with no one at the helm ? There's a slight possibility that if the boat was at idle & travelling at an extremely slow speed there was no one at the wheel. If this was the case, contact with the smaller boat would have only produced a nudge. If the bigger boat was on the plane it would be a million to one that no one was at the wheel.      and so many times I have seen all people at the back and nobody at the helm (and not in Thailand only...)  Really !

[mogandave]

Care to explain how the boat was underway with no one at the helm ? There's a slight possibility that if the boat was at idle & travelling at an extremely slow speed there was no one at the wheel. If this was the case, contact with the smaller boat would have only produced a nudge. If the bigger boat was on the plane it would be a million to one that no one was at the wheel.      and so many times I have seen all people at the back and nobody at the helm (and not in Thailand only...)  Really !

GPS assisted auto-pilot? Pretty standard on nicer boats.

They can also be linked to the radar for obstacle avoidance, also pretty standard.

If the boat is not equipped with auto-pilot, a bungee cord works great...

[Kieran00001]

11 hours ago, madmen said:

What instruments will detect a wooden boat and send out a screaming alarm ? you cant be serious there is no such thing or the mega ships would be using them instead of running over small boats in shipping lanes

 

You cant be seriou, of course there is such a thing, its completely standard kit, its cslled forward scan sonar, although it doesnt send out a screaming alarm, you're required by law to be paying attention.  The reason largr ships cant avoid hitting small boats isnt because they cant detect them, its because they cant alter course quick enough, unlike the small boat in this case.

[Kieran00001]

11 minutes ago, malt25 said:

Care to explain how the boat was underway with no one at the helm ? There's a slight possibility that if the boat was at idle & travelling at an extremely slow speed there was no one at the wheel. If this was the case, contact with the smaller boat would have only produced a nudge. If the bigger boat was on the plane it would be a million to one that no one was at the wheel.      and so many times I have seen all people at the back and nobody at the helm (and not in Thailand only...)  Really !

 

You do realise that many motor cruisers have two helms?