Britain's Conservatives in fourth place in EU election poll, Farage leads

[dick dasterdly]

20 hours ago, wilcopops said:

Anyone who doesn't believe Brexit is a far right occurrence should read this.......

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/may/16/brexit-britain-weimar-germany-far-right-democracy-contempt-politicians

I agreed with the end part of this article:-

 

"All this feels as if it is about something much bigger than the need for electoral reform, desirable though that would be. This week, at the launch of a new book of essays called Rethinking Democracy, of which he is co-editor with Andrew Gamble, the former Labour MP Tony Wright went to the unstable nub of the matter. “We lost the referendum,” he said. “But we lost the democratic argument too. The argument for democracy was won by the leavers.” What is needed is a change of culture, says Wright.

Theresa May, seeking to bring back her Brexit bill to MPs next month with little prospect of success, seems fated simply to add another layer to the bedrock of contempt by doing so."

[AlexRich]

Democracy is based on truth, not lies ... democracy based on lies is an affront.

[evadgib]

2 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

Democracy is based on truth, not lies ... democracy based on lies is an affront.

Unless in the hands of the BBC...????

 

[AlexRich]

A photograph of the biggest liar of all, how apt.

[evadgib]

4 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

A photograph of the biggest liar of all, how apt.

She wasn't there but did get a mention...????

 

[AlexRich]

The difference is that May has to negotiate with another powerful group and deliver something ... Farage just needs to keep making promises knowing he never has to deliver on any of them. A fake, oily little conman ... taking you all for mugs.

[evadgib]

Here's why Farage leads:

 

[tebee]

The Tories have forgotten about their pro-EU voters.  

 

In my hometown, I’ve see how middle-class angst over Brexit is creating an existential threat to the party which could once count on their votes says John Harris

 

They will pay for this .....

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/may/20/middle-class-angst-threat-tory-party-brexit-conservatism

 

[Loiner]

22 hours ago, AlexRich said:

I didn't make any predictions about the referendum result? I only got involved afterwards. And my observation on here is that Brexiteers have been wrong on everything since that vote ... from Sgt Rock (a rabid poster at the time about the EU's imminent collapse) to the guy recently (who has disappeared) explaining to me that I lacked his legal knowledge and understanding ... and that we would be out by 29 March? And many many more. German manufacturers did not lobby their government, Italian wine makers did not lobby their government ... the EU did not need us as much as was suggested. 

Only got involved after the referendum - is that because you predicted to only yourself that Remain would win?

German manufacturers and Italian wine makers have been lobbying their governments for a while. Maybe you missed those?

The EU still does need us as much as suggested - why do you think they try to stitch us up with a bad deal, give extensions and won't easily let us go?

[Nigel Garvie]

28 minutes ago, tebee said:

The Tories have forgotten about their pro-EU voters.  

 

In my hometown, I’ve see how middle-class angst over Brexit is creating an existential threat to the party which could once count on their votes says John Harris

 

They will pay for this .....

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/may/20/middle-class-angst-threat-tory-party-brexit-conservatism

 

It's a good article and doesn't really have an agenda, it is just comment on an often forgotten problem for the Tories. I liked these two paragraphs in particular.

 

Everyone knows what will happen, sooner or later. Given the ageing profile of the Tory membership and its attachment to hard Brexit, the party will move even further to the right. Put another way, it will fix its collective sights on the kind of old, zealous, implacably parochial people who have been turning up to all those Farage rallies, while all the demographics continue to move in the opposite direction.

 

There is a rising Tory fantasy about the party’s immediate post-May future, which seems to be based around victory in a general election, a new leader going back to Brussels full of swagger – and, if need be, Britain stoically going it alone. If that happens, the revolutionary, Brexit-or-nothing school of modern Conservatism will reach peak arrogance, thinking the ghost of the blessed Margaret Thatcher is cheering everything on, and that its moment of destiny has arrived. The truth is the exact opposite: whatever its delusions, hyper-Toryism – and, by extension, the Conservative party itself – is sliding into a elemental crisis from which it may never recover.

 

"While all the demographics continue to move in the opposite direction." This is what I try to get across here again and again. The future does not belong to old white parochial males. The past certainly did, and they are desperately trying to hold onto control of a world that is changing in ways they can't understand and are afraid of. Like King Canute their chances of success are zilch.

Of course in the short term they may have their bright moments - no doubt the closet neo fascist Fromage will do well in the EU elections - but these events will become increasingly rare. The future may well belong to young females of many colours. I suggest giving the young more respect instead of farting on about the importance of experience, might be a wise move. Their taxes are paying our pensions! 

[tebee]

2 hours ago, evadgib said:

Here's why Farage leads:

 

Farage is a con man - but like all con men those gullible souls who believe him, will never be persuaded otherwise.

 

He refuses to name any other policies besides brexit - why? Because it gives people something to disagree with and might lose him votes.  

 

He claims to be defending democracy.

 

So why is his Brexit party

-funded by secret donors
-run & controlled by one man

-has no internal democracy 
-answerable to no-one but Farage?

 

https://www.politico.eu/article/nigel-farage-brexit-party-start-up-politics-eu-election/

[BritManToo]

6 minutes ago, tebee said:

Farage is a con man - but like all con men those gullible souls who believe him, will never be persuaded otherwise.

He refuses to name any other policies besides brexit

No need for any other policies, Brexit is an election winner.

I'd rather have one real promise, than 20 promises they renege on after they're elected.

Edited May 20, 2019 by BritManToo

[aright]

5 minutes ago, tebee said:

Farage is a con man - but like all con men those gullible souls who believe him, will never be persuaded otherwise.

 

He refuses to name any other policies besides brexit - why? Because it gives people something to disagree with and might lose him votes.  

 

He claims to be defending democracy.

 

So why is his Brexit party

-funded by secret donors
-run & controlled by one man

-has no internal democracy 
-answerable to no-one but Farage?

 

https://www.politico.eu/article/nigel-farage-brexit-party-start-up-politics-eu-election/

The first thing you have to realise is that the Brexit Party is a start-up Party with all the problems that creates just like a start-up business and I've done that a few times. What are the policies of Conservative, Labour et al parties?...I haven't seen them Policies are not needed going into Euro elections, MEP's are not responsible for initiating policies.....I said in a previous post if they do well in the Euros they will likely contest the next GE. At that time I will make a decision based on all party manifestos as to my voting intention as I am sure will many people.....no one is guaranteed my vote.

On the Andrew Marr show on Sunday, talking the Euros, was Jeremy Corbyn, Vince Cable, Nicola Sturgeon and Chuka Umuna…….no, Brexit Party representative. What did you say about democracy?

The funded by secret donors is being investigated so I can't comment but 

-run & controlled by one man

-has no internal democracy 
-answerable to no-one but Farage?

I was guilty of all those things when I started up a number of businesses . It all changed when the business matured.

[nontabury]

30 minutes ago, tebee said:

Farage is a con man - but like all con men those gullible souls who believe him, will never be persuaded otherwise.

 

He refuses to name any other policies besides brexit - why? Because it gives people something to disagree with and might lose him votes.  

 

He claims to be defending democracy.

 

So why is his Brexit party

-funded by secret donors
-run & controlled by one man

-has no internal democracy 
-answerable to no-one but Farage?

 

https://www.politico.eu/article/nigel-farage-brexit-party-start-up-politics-eu-election/

 

 So I don’t agree with him or the result of the people’s referendum, so he must be a con man.

 Get over it, the people Democratically voted to leave this so called union, which I remind you,was imposed on us by lying and devious politicians.

 Come this Thursday the people will again confirm their desire to exit the E.u. All that needs to be determined is how large a majority the leave parties will obtain. The biggest danger to an overwhelming Brexit vote, is if people become over confident, and therefore decide to give the vote a miss. So we will have to awaite Sunday and the result.

 

 In the meantime Watford F.C. which as we all know is supported only by remainers, has requested that the F.A. Cup final be replayed, as they beleive that Manchester City cheated by scoring too many goals.

 

Edited May 20, 2019 by nontabury

[tomacht8]

What does he want in the EU Parliament?

This guy has been only destructive so far.

He has no interest in working for a better EU. A real cuckoo's egg.

The UK does not manage to do its Brexit itself and now sends out its worst knife stabber. A big-mouthed, propagandistic quengler without any substance. 

And the EU organization must also pay him a salary for his intention to destroy the organization, which also has to pay his salary. Crazy times.

[aright]

24 minutes ago, tomacht8 said:

What does he want in the EU Parliament?

This guy has been only destructive so far.

He has no interest in working for a better EU. A real cuckoo's egg.

The UK does not manage to do its Brexit itself and now sends out its worst knife stabber. A big-mouthed, propagandistic quengler without any substance. 

And the EU organization must also pay him a salary for his intention to destroy the organization, which also has to pay his salary. Crazy times.

What he wants is a good showing in the election. A seat at the table in isolation has little value but after a good showing more important than the seat is the influence it has over those already at the table.

I don't think he want's to destroy the EU...….how people want to live is up to them. Like me and many other Leavers we just don't want to be part of the EU for all the reasons given. Where the EU is concerned you can argue its good, you can argue it's bad but don't say it's not happening or that we can change it.  

 

[AlexRich]

2 hours ago, Loiner said:

Only got involved after the referendum - is that because you predicted to only yourself that Remain would win?

German manufacturers and Italian wine makers have been lobbying their governments for a while. Maybe you missed those?

The EU still does need us as much as suggested - why do you think they try to stitch us up with a bad deal, give extensions and won't easily let us go?

 

You guys just go deeper and deeper into the rabbit hole of delusion and denial ... we were told that the EU would be bending over backwards to give us a great deal ... "because they need us more than we need them". 

 

German manufacturers care more about the single market than the UK market, and that's why Merkel has been under no pressure.

 

 

[aright]

[evadgib]

1 hour ago, tebee said:

Farage is a con man - but like all con men those gullible souls who believe him, will never be persuaded otherwise.

 

He refuses to name any other policies besides brexit - why? Because it gives people something to disagree with and might lose him votes.  

 

He claims to be defending democracy.

 

So why is his Brexit party

-funded by secret donors
-run & controlled by one man

-has no internal democracy 
-answerable to no-one but Farage?

 

https://www.politico.eu/article/nigel-farage-brexit-party-start-up-politics-eu-election/

All I can add to the replies of others is a borderline 'Owzat!' which I note you usually steer clear of, & checkout this comment from JH-B:

 

Edited May 20, 2019 by evadgib

[billd766]

21 hours ago, nauseus said:

The Morbid Report......always to the point. 

In fact just the same will happen to Alex Rich.

[AlexRich]

13 minutes ago, billd766 said:

In fact just the same will happen to Alex Rich.

 

Of course, but not for a very long time my friend ... I just want Brexiteers to live long enough to see their dream die.

 

 

[AlexRich]

27 minutes ago, aright said:

 

Would be better if you had provided evidence of the massive pressure they have put on Merkel?

 

What, they haven't? With so much at stake? 

 

... perhaps they care more about protecting the much larger single market?

 

[Chomper Higgot]

How does it go.....

 

’Owzat!’

[aright]

24 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

 

Would be better if you had provided evidence of the massive pressure they have put on Merkel?

 

What, they haven't? With so much at stake? 

 

... perhaps they care more about protecting the much larger single market?

 

The massive pressure was put on indirectly by the Deloitte report payed for presumably by the German auto industry.

Are you saying a comprehensive report written by the largest professional service network in the world would be dismissed out of hand by the German government. 

If this sort of information pertained to my industry I would be knocking on government doors.

It's naïve to think this sort of info wouldn't put Merkel under pressure and naïve to think that Merkel couldn't modify single market rules. Germany controls the EU economy.

 

[tebee]

1 minute ago, aright said:

The massive pressure was put on indirectly by the Deloitte report payed for presumably by the German auto industry.

Are you saying a comprehensive report written by the largest professional service network in the world would be dismissed out of hand by the German government. 

If this sort of information pertained to my industry I would be knocking on government doors.

It's naïve to think this sort of info wouldn't put Merkel under pressure and naïve to think that Merkel couldn't modify single market rules. Germany controls the EU economy.

 

 But don't forget that someone in the EU is going to be making the cars that the UK won't be making post hard brexit. So there are losses and gains.

[nontabury]

20 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

How does it go.....

 

’Owzat!’

 

 An extremist europhile resorts to an Anti Democratic 

Gesture. They are obviously becoming very worried.

 I just wonder if this had occurred to Anna Soubry, what would the reactions be from the remainers.

Edited May 20, 2019 by nontabury

[AlexRich]

1 minute ago, aright said:

The massive pressure was put on indirectly by the Deloitte report payed for presumably by the German auto industry.

Are you saying a comprehensive report written by the largest professional service network in the world would be dismissed out of hand by the German government. 

If this sort of information pertained to my industry I would be knocking on government doors.

It's naïve to think this sort of info wouldn't put Merkel under pressure and naïve to think that Merkel couldn't modify single market rules. Germany controls the EU economy.

 

You used the argument, and it made no difference, there is no evidence of pressure on the German Government ... I’m afraid the “they need us more than we need them” argument has been shown up for what it is ... a falsehood.

 

Of course the EU would feel some economic pain from no deal, but spread over 27 countries the impact would not be significant ... unlike the UK that would feel the full brunt. It was an argument that appealed at a superficial level ... enough to convince the plebs and useful idiots that it was true. And any argument against was project fear. Now you are saying that it’s the EU’s fault for not giving us everything that we want ... you couldn’t make it up ... but of course you do, on here, every day.

[AlexRich]

4 minutes ago, nontabury said:

Farage looking at his best ... lol

 

[evadgib]

24 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

How does it go.....

 

’Owzat!’

He'll be outta that quicker than Clarke Kent ????

[aright]

18 minutes ago, tebee said:

 But don't forget that someone in the EU is going to be making the cars that the UK won't be making post hard brexit. So there are losses and gains.

Almost correct. "Someone in the world is going to make the cars that the UK wont be making but not necessarily the EU" Logistical sense made Dyson move to the far east.

Where cars are manufactured has nothing to do with Brexit and everything to do with margins.

Global trade is dynamic because of losses and gains. When China has developed a significantly large affluent upper working and middle class where do you think the majority of cars will be made?