Mandatory health insurance for foreigners aged over 50 in Thailand - why it may not affect you

[Peterw42]

9 minutes ago, wimpy said:

I would bet the vast majority of foreigners use private hospitals. In my 25+ years here, I have always used public hospitals. Rarely have seen another foreigner.

They are private companies, any of the quoted losses etc are losses to the public system. Ministry of public health wouldn't be chasing up losses on behalf of private companies.

[Vacuum]

50 minutes ago, ThaiPauly said:

My visa agent says it does not apply to me, only to people getting visas from abroad.

 

We have spent the best part of a week fretting about nothing

I hope you're right.

[marcusarelus]

13 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

It's only a few BMs who are scaremongering about it applying to Extensions.  In time it could, but there is no indication of it at the moment.

I don't believe you have a vested interest in the answer.  I do.  I'm renewing my visa (extension) in July which is the date of the change.  I would like a definitive answer from the government.  I don't think that is an improper question seeing as I could get kicked out of the country if you are in error. 

[marcusarelus]

3 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

They are private companies, any of the quoted losses etc are losses to the public system. Ministry of public health wouldn't be chasing up losses on behalf of private companies.

Of course, I forgot, the government never works on behalf of private companies in Thailand. 

[BritManToo]

4 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

They are private companies, any of the quoted losses etc are losses to the public system. Ministry of public health wouldn't be chasing up losses on behalf of private companies.

I don't believe there are any losses from western expats.

The hospital has a copy of the passport of every foreigner they treated.

Let's have a list of nationalities for these 'alleged' losses.

I'm betting none of them are white guys from the western world.

 

This is simply another extortion or removal exercise.

Edited May 19, 2019 by BritManToo

[wimpy]

2 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

They are private companies, any of the quoted losses etc are losses to the public system. Ministry of public health wouldn't be chasing up losses on behalf of private companies.

I call BS. I seriously doubt pubic hospitals are incurring major losses due to long stay foreigners. Maybe the odd tourist that has a motorbike accident and does a runner. Other than that, nah.

[Peterw42]

13 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

80% of the Thai population has never paid any income tax.

And those that do are in a different hospital system (SS)

 

None of the Thais using my local (SanSai) government hospital ever paid income tax, employees with SS use Lanna hospital.

But we all pay VAT and import duties, I could make an argument that foreigners use more imported goods and therefore pay more in taxes than normal Thais.

Not sure that buying imported cheese is paying the subsided portion of our hospital bills.

[BritManToo]

3 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

Not sure that buying imported cheese is paying the subsided portion of our hospital bills.

I'm beginning to think you aren't a legitimate poster.

I can't believe you're this stupid, so you must be a troll.

Now on my ignore list.

Edited May 19, 2019 by BritManToo

[Peterw42]

4 minutes ago, wimpy said:

I call BS. I seriously doubt pubic hospitals are incurring major losses due to long stay foreigners. Maybe the odd tourist that has a motorbike accident and does a runner. Other than that, nah.

Its not people doing a runner.

Any Thai hospital bill is 80% paid by the Government and 20% paid by the patient. Its the 80% foreigners are not paying.

[wimpy]

5 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

Its not people doing a runner.

Any Thai hospital bill is 80% paid by the Government and 20% paid by the patient. Its the 80% foreigners are not paying.

Huh? Which is it, the problem is public hospitals are subsidized (which the insurance won't have any effect on), or that foreigners are not paying their bills as was stated in the Nation article.

[GeorgeCross]

south of france, spain and its islands look damn tempting right now..

[Peterw42]

1 minute ago, wimpy said:

Huh? Which is it, the problem is public hospitals are subsidized (which the insurance won't have any effect on), or that foreigners are not paying their bills as was stated in the Nation article.

I think there is a presumption that insurance will move foreigners over to the private system by default. once you have insurance you will go to the private every-time.

Insurance wont be paying the the subsidised portion of the bill, there wont be a subsidised portion, foreigners will be up the road getting treated at the private hospital.

[wimpy]

18 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

Not sure that buying imported cheese is paying the subsided portion of our hospital bills.

Again, subsidized healthcare is not what the stated problem was. According to the article, it was people not paying their (public and private) hospital bills. If subsidized healthcare was the problem, they could simply charge foreigners more, and the problem would be solved.

[wimpy]

2 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

I think there is a presumption that insurance will move foreigners over to the private system by default. once you have insurance you will go to the private every-time.

Insurance wont be paying the the subsidised portion of the bill, there wont be a subsidised portion, foreigners will be up the road getting treated at the private hospital.

Are you sober? The vast majority of foreigners are already using private hospitals. I have been using public facilities for years. Very very rare that I see another foreigner.

[TigerandDog]

The one thing everybody seems to have overlooked in this post is the fact that 6 Thai Health Insurance companies have been approved to sell this insurance.  The questions that haven't been asked and should be are these:

 

1.  If this health insurance is for new Non O-A visa applications only, why have these 6 companies been given approval to sell health insurance to over 50's long stay foreigners?  If it is for new visa applications only, then it must be done in the home country. No need for Thai companies to sell the insurance.

 

2. Has the news release used incorrect terminology when referring to visa renewals? I believe, and so do the approved 6 insurance companies, that the use of the terminology "visa renewal" actually means "extension of stay".

 

I am also reliably informed by 1 of the 6 companies that as a group they are saying to the relevant govt dept that outpatients does not need to be included in the mandatory minimums, and are hoping to have that removed from the requirements.

 

But either way, since this is to come into effect on 1 July 2019, we'll soon see posts in here if extensions of stay are rejected because of no health insurance.

[ThaiBunny]

9 minutes ago, TigerandDog said:

But either way, since this is to come into effect on 1 July 2019, we'll soon see posts in here if extensions of stay are rejected because of no health insurance.

I would add that there is no logic in insisting on health insurance for the initial visa but then not insisting on it while the foreigner keeps staying on in Thailand. But then TiT

[Pattaya46]

19 minutes ago, TigerandDog said:

// since this is to come into effect on 1 July 2019, we'll soon see posts in here if extensions of stay are rejected because of no health insurance

Well before that we will get an official announcement concerning old expats. The only announcement we know about was in Thai by the Health Department and - IMHO - was concerning Foreign Department, Immigration and maybe a few other Thai administration.

When they will be ready I think there will be an announcement by the Foreign Department on this new requirement in Thai embassies and consulates. Then they will say if it's also concerning Immigration, and then Extensions...

Everything said about Extensions before that is just pure speculation... IMHO.

[Peterw42]

10 minutes ago, TigerandDog said:

The one thing everybody seems to have overlooked in this post is the fact that 6 Thai Health Insurance companies have been approved to sell this insurance.  The questions that haven't been asked and should be are these:

 

1.  If this health insurance is for new Non O-A visa applications only, why have these 6 companies been given approval to sell health insurance to over 50's long stay foreigners?  If it is for new visa applications only, then it must be done in the home country. No need for Thai companies to sell the insurance.

 

2. Has the news release used incorrect terminology when referring to visa renewals? I believe, and so do the approved 6 insurance companies, that the use of the terminology "visa renewal" actually means "extension of stay".

 

I am also reliably informed by 1 of the 6 companies that as a group they are saying to the relevant govt dept that outpatients does not need to be included in the mandatory minimums, and are hoping to have that removed from the requirements.

 

But either way, since this is to come into effect on 1 July 2019, we'll soon see posts in here if extensions of stay are rejected because of no health insurance.

The 6 approved companies have been offering their policies ever since the introduction of the OX visa a couple of years ago. They didnt just pop up yesterday offering longstay insurance. They didnt just get approval.

The policies have always included 40k outpatients coverage, its always been the OX requirement, OA insurance will be the same insurance. 

 

This website and the policies they offer came into exsistance a couple of years ago.

https://longstay.tgia.org

 

The same site appears on many Thai embassy websites as a guide to where you can get the appropriate insurance.

 

[ThaiPauly]

2 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

If you are using an agent then half the rules don't apply to you. Agents can get you an extension without the money in the bank/seasoning etc, if insurance comes in they will probably be able to get extensions without the insurance.

She never told me it would cost me any more to get it

 

She only charged me 3k to get my last visa done, first time I had used an agent, never told me if I pay her a bit more I need not have 800k in the bank!!

[ivor bigun]

I think the reason for the insurance has been misrepresented. They are basically saying the system is underfunded treating foreigners.
Thais pay tax then get the advantage of subsidised healthcare, foreigners don't pay tax then use the subsidised healthcare.
 
Any foreigner using the Thai public health , even if they pay (the subsidised rate) in full, is by definition a loss, they didn't pay tax for 20 years to fund the system.
 
Its not the bill at the hospital thats not being paid, its the funding of the system thats not being paid by foreigners.
 
If a Thai person goes to hospital and gets a band-aid, cost of providing the band-aid 100 baht, Thai taxes pays 80 baht and the Thai person pays 20 baht.
If a foreigner gets the band-aid, they pay 20 baht, there is an 80 baht loss
When Thai Gov says they didn't get paid X billions, they are talking about the 80 baht, not the 20 baht.
 
 

I think you have a vivid imagination "you think to much"

Sent from my SM-A720F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Peterw42]

25 minutes ago, ThaiBunny said:

I would add that there is no logic in insisting on health insurance for the initial visa but then not insisting on it while the foreigner keeps staying on in Thailand. But then TiT

Thats appears to be exactly what they have done with the OX visa, its just that nobody has got to the end of an OX visa yet.

They used all the same terminology when they introduced the OX visa, renewals etc. And people were taking it to mean all extensions etc.

Edited May 19, 2019 by Peterw42

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, wimpy said:

Again, subsidized healthcare is not what the stated problem was. According to the article, it was people not paying their (public and private) hospital bills. If subsidized healthcare was the problem, they could simply charge foreigners more, and the problem would be solved.

They do charge foreigners more Item 55020 on my last bill is the foreigners surcharge.

I paid 3x the unregistered Thai price. Can't say I begrudge them the extra 50bht.

(25bht for 2 weeks of meds, 2bht for surgical gloves)

Edited May 19, 2019 by BritManToo

[Jano22]

4 i think . U.K, U.S.A , Australia and Denmark.

[monkfish]

19 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

They do charge foreigners more Item 55020 on my last bill is the foreigners surcharge.

I paid 3x the unregistered Thai price. Can't say I begrudge them the extra 50bht.

(25bht for 2 weeks of meds, 2bht for surgical gloves)

Yes they charge me the Farang 50B extra as well which i don't mind.
In fact why not increase to 200B and it should cover all the losses plus some profit?

[BritManToo]

1 minute ago, monkfish said:

Yes they charge me the Farang 50B extra as well which i don't mind.

It isn't a 'farang' charge, it's a foreigner charge, Laos and Burma citizens pay it as well.

[nickstav]

I got my new Non-Imm renewal on Friday. I asked the immigration officer if I would need to have health insurance when I reapplied next year. His reply..."no, you don't need it at all".

[ThaiBunny]

Just now, nickstav said:

I got my new Non-Imm renewal on Friday. I asked the immigration officer if I would need to have health insurance when I reapplied next year. His reply..."no, you don't need it at all".

So your original entry was on an O-A visa?

[bert bloggs]

Every 6 months i go to a govt hospital ,i pay slightly more than the Thai,my meds are the same price ,and far far cheaper than the private hospital, as for falangs running away and not paying ,if i ever see another falang its quite rare .

[Pattaya46]

28 minutes ago, nickstav said:

I asked the immigration officer if I would need to have health insurance when I reapplied next year. //

How do you want an officer to know which rules will apply in 1 year ??!! 

He can only tell you what are the rule as for today.

Nobody know what new rules or changes can happen within 1 year.

[Pattaya46]

57 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

It isn't a 'farang' charge, it's a foreigner charge, Laos and Burma citizens pay it as well.

You are ruining the work of the  "They don't want farangs here"  brigade