Loan Sharks - Chanote Collateral

[Luca Brasi]

Hi,

 

I would like some advice or similar experience feedback from the following events (Note, I already have an appointment with a lawyer next week for legal advice):

 

- Wife took a 300,000 THB loan about 3 years ago from loan sharks (I didn't know about it until today). She says she signed some kind of loan contract.

 

- She repaid 15,000 THB per month for at least the last 36 months ( that's 540,000 THB already repaid!! ). I have my monthly bank receipt to her account to prove it.

 

- Here comes the crux: she gave them the house chanote as a collateral as she missed some payments and got threatened (as far as I know, she didn't go to the land office to officially do a transfer ownership). The police officer accomplice with the loan sharks told her she was plain stu*** to do that...indeed.

 

Now, she hasn't paid them for the last 2 months and finally told me the truth. 

 

 

So, I'm wondering the followings:

 

- The maximum legal interest rate in Thailand is 15%. So I guess first hand first this loan "contract" she signed is plain illegal.

 

- She already repaid way more than what was borrowed including the interest rate. The house is worth at least 5 million THB and we have two very young kids.  Can they really take the house ??

 

- Given the new law against loan sharks  promulgated ( http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/stiffer-anti-loan-shark-law-now-effective/ ) 2 years ago, I was also about to go to police station to bring criminal charges against the loan sharks, but was advised against doing so.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

[Pilotman]

Only a good Thai lawyer can help you.  Good luck in finding one of those, but I wouldn't look any further than a Bangkok Firm. . 

[Luca Brasi]

2 minutes ago, Pilotman said:

Only a good Thai lawyer can help you.  Good luck in finding one of those, but I wouldn't look any further than a Bangkok Firm. . 

Thanks, it seems we found a good one in Ratchada area. He already gave us possible outcomes over the phone but we'll get more details next week.

[CLS]

You‘re right, the max. interest is 15 pa. Only banks can charge more.

The max that police accepts is 2% per month.

Your MAFIA loan shark charges at least 10% per month.

The contract is null and void, but the MAFIA plays by different rules.

Your lawyer will give you the advice to report it at your police station. You should take him with you by doing so.


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[churchill]

Normally the guaranteed land paper is signed over to the loan shark ... so you need to check that .. If it has been they have ownership until the loan is repaid .. In this case I would negotiate a settlement with them asap ..

 

If the land paper has not been signed over then perhaps your lawyer can negotiate a settlement more easily .

 

I would not get involved with the courts .

[churchill]

3 minutes ago, CLS said:

You‘re right, the max. interest is 15 pa. Only banks can charge more.

The max that police accepts is 2% per month.

Your MAFIA loan shark charges at least 10% per month.

The contract is null and void, but the MAFIA plays by different rules.

Your lawyer will give you the advice to report it at your police station. You should take him with you by doing so.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

Looks like they are charging 5% which is high but often these type of loans are 3-5% .... Never take one .. In many cases The loan shark is not expecting it to be repaid and is just buying a cheap property 

[Odysseus123]

Watch it!

A mate of mine (or his wife did) went down big time on this..

[OneMoreFarang]

As far as I know loan sharks don't work alone. They are normally well connected with the local police and other influential people.

So if you go to the police keep in mind that maybe they are not on your side.

And if you want a healthy long life for you and your family then be very careful.

Good luck! You need it.

[geoffbezoz]

3 minutes ago, Odysseus123 said:

Watch it!

A mate of mine (or his wife did) went down back time on this..

Sorry don't understand what you mean with "went down back time on this". Could you explain ?

[baansgr]

Loan sharks are just that, be very careful, they dont mess around. Its likely the loan will be attached to the Chanote. Rather than expensive lawyers fees, ask them what they want to clear the loan.  What happened to the original 300,000, cant have just dissapeared?????.

[Odysseus123]

6 minutes ago, geoffbezoz said:

Sorry don't understand what you mean with "went down back time on this". Could you explain ?

Oh sorry.I will amend my post.

 

A Dutch mate of mine went down big time on this.Watch out!

[ThomasThBKK]

The chanote itself is useless, you can report it as stolen at the police and get a new one, land office has a copy. 

Go to a bangkok law firm and tell them the story, dont use some hilltribe lawyer in bumfuck nowhere. Those loans are most likely illegal anyway - you need a financial license to give loans commercially...

 

I would be way more worried about physical violence man... beware. 

[Happy Grumpy]

Your wife (you) pay them the money that was agreed.

 

If you are sure the whole story is legit and not BS from the wife and/or her (extended) family putting her up to it.

 

Swallow your pride or whatever.

 

 

Fight it and risk losing the house, or your life or the life of someone else involved. 

 

 

Then start looking at what sort of 'loving partner' would do that behind your back. 

[ThomasThBKK]

i would second that. Pay those <deleted>, swallow your pride and move on, this is a lawless hole you don't want to get into a conflict with mafia guys.

[Kwasaki]

1 hour ago, Luca Brasi said:

Wife took a 300,000 THB loan about 3 years ago from loan sharks.

If they are officially listed as a company to loan money she has no case against them. 

To go to a bank, finance company with a deed of land to borrow money is the normal way.

To go to loan sharks and borrow as you state is asking for trouble. 

 

[Rally123]

I got involved a similar thing some years ago. I went to see a lawyer. A good one. First make sure your lawyer is genuine. Anyone can set up an office and give legal advice in Thailand. Only difference between a real one and a fake one is that only a qualified one can represent you in court. Many bogus lawyers out there.

The illegal money lenders have your land title paper. Without your wife's signature, at the local land office confirming transfer, the paper is worth nothing other than being an inconvenience to yourselves. You have every right to live there and farm if you wish. The loan sharks have no rights even though they may hold the land paper. 

My suggestion is that you pay no more money. Go down to your local cop shop and tell them what has happened. Your wife will not be in trouble. The 'loan sharks' will be. The police will probably just have a quiet word with them and tell them to return the paper and clear off their patch and all outstanding monies will not be paid in exchange for no formal complaint or charges being made. Job done. Don't waste your money on a lawyer. Good luck and be strong. Your wife must be worried sihtless (anagram) .

[Rally123]

21 minutes ago, ThomasThBKK said:

The chanote itself is useless, you can report it as stolen at the police and get a new one, land office has a copy. 

Reporting the loss of land papers to obtain a replacement land paper is a very serious offence. DO NOT go down that line.

[baansgr]

3 minutes ago, Rally123 said:

I got involved a similar thing some years ago. I went to see a lawyer. A good one. First make sure your lawyer is genuine. Anyone can set up an office and give legal advice in Thailand. Only difference between a real one and a fake one is that only a qualified one can represent you in court. Many bogus lawyers out there.

The illegal money lenders have your land title paper. Without your wife's signature, at the local land office confirming transfer, the paper is worth nothing other than being an inconvenience to yourselves. You have every right to live there and farm if you wish. The loan sharks have no rights even though they may hold the land paper. 

My suggestion is that you pay no more money. Go down to your local cop shop and tell them what has happened. Your wife will not be in trouble. The 'loan sharks' will be. The police will probably just have a quiet word with them and tell them to return the paper and clear off their patch and all outstanding monies will not be paid in exchange for no formal complaint or charges being made. Job done. Don't waste your money on a lawyer. Good luck and be strong. Your wife must be worried sihtless (anagram) .

Yea right, like that's gonna work. There is an outstanding debt to pay, OP needs to address that with the lenders. Legal loan or illegal loan, they want their money. 

[ThomasThBKK]

4 minutes ago, Rally123 said:

Reporting the loss of land papers to obtain a replacement land paper is a very serious offence. DO NOT go down that line.

I agree, was wrongly formulated, but they are defacto stolen and you can use a lawyer to report that if they refuse to give them back as the whole loan stuff is uhm shady af.

 

 

Anyway...just pay and learn from mistakes.

[Luca Brasi]

Thanks for all the replies so far. 

 

We have a formal appointment with the lawyer on Tuesday, but over phone he told us the easiest & cheapest solution would probably be a private settlement with the loan sharks.

 

He also advised against reporting to the police for now, unless we have some proofs (Line messages, sms,...) of threats or physical aggression.

 

Regarding the chanote, I understood that she signed a paper stating to use the house as a collateral until the loan is fully repaid (which is already...at least under the law maximum interest rate) and handed over the chanote to them. She told me there was a police officer when she signed who is accomplice with the loan sharks, hence she's now scared to get arrested and to lose the house.

 

I've also asked the laywer if I could just declare a lost chanote and get a new one at the land office, he STRONGLY advised not to do it!

 

 

[Rally123]

7 minutes ago, baansgr said:

Yea right, like that's gonna work. There is an outstanding debt to pay, OP needs to address that with the lenders. Legal loan or illegal loan, they want their money. 

Been there done it. It worked for me. Did it happen to you? Can you speak from experience? Nah, I didn't think so.

[Rally123]

14 minutes ago, Luca Brasi said:

We have a formal appointment with the lawyer on Tuesday, but over phone he told us the easiest & cheapest solution would probably be a private settlement with the loan sharks.

A private settlement yes but in the presence of senior police officer. And record the meeting on your phone.

 

14 minutes ago, Luca Brasi said:

He also advised against reporting to the police for now

Report it and let the loan sharks know what you've done.

 

14 minutes ago, Luca Brasi said:

I understood that she signed a paper stating to use the house as a collateral until the loan is fully repaid

The paper is worthless without her signature at the Land Office.

 

14 minutes ago, Luca Brasi said:

she's now scared to get arrested and to lose the house.

 

She won't be.

 

14 minutes ago, Luca Brasi said:

I've also asked the laywer if I could just declare a lost chanote and get a new one at the land office, he STRONGLY advised not to do it!

Correct advice.

[Kwasaki]

41 minutes ago, churchill said:

Looks like they are charging 5% which is high but often these type of loans are 3-5%

Not so 5% is normal for as OP states loan sharks and also rich people living in a area where poor people want or need to borrow money.

The problem can become more of a problem when payments are missed, that also applied to paying back Banks or finance companies.

The only defence in the OP's situation is whether the so called (loan sharks) are registered with Thai gov for lending money.

If they turn out to be a locally called mafia that is an insult to the mafia, they just thugs which will most certainly be a problem.

[Rally123]

2 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

so called (loan sharks) are registered with Thai gov

Loan sharking is illegal and they will not be registered.

[Luca Brasi]

Just now, Rally123 said:

Loan sharking is illegal and they will not be registered.

100% confirmed they're not legally registered lenders.

 

I've asked my wife for any statement, receipt, proof of payment,... she said they never had one to give. The only things they have on her is the bogus loan contract she signed and her chanote.

 

[baansgr]

27 minutes ago, Rally123 said:

Been there done it. It worked for me. Did it happen to you? Can you speak from experience? Nah, I didn't think so.

No, but you seriously think these people will walk away from 300,000 owed, and OP has already said the police were present. Advising him to go to the police could put his families lives in danger. His lawyer has said ad did I to contact the lenders and clear the debt.

[Odysseus123]

17 minutes ago, baansgr said:

No, but you seriously think these people will walk away from 300,000 owed, and OP has already said the police were present. Advising him to go to the police could put his families lives in danger. His lawyer has said ad did I to contact the lenders and clear the debt.

That's it.

 

... and depart.

[Rally123]

22 minutes ago, baansgr said:

Advising him to go to the police could put his families lives in danger.

You watch too many movies

 

22 minutes ago, baansgr said:

you seriously think these people will walk away from 300,000 owed,

Yes if they're looking at jail time for loan sharking.

 

22 minutes ago, baansgr said:

OP has already said the police were present.

And was he present when the policeman was there? Or was it just his wife saying there was? If the officer wasn't in uniform which I assume he wasn't then how does she know he was genuine? 

[Odysseus123]

6 minutes ago, Rally123 said:

You watch too many movies

 

Yes if they're looking at jail time for loan sharking.

 

And was he present when the policeman was there? Or was it just his wife saying there was? If the officer wasn't in uniform which I assume he wasn't then how does she know he was genuine? 

Oh..she would know if he is genuine.

 

I have seen this before..

[ukrules]

If the debt is real then pay it off including the interest, problem solved.

 

If you can't pay it then sell the house and pay it. They can't take the whole house and keep it for a small loan secured on it unless you allow them to do so, which would be a bit stupid, especially if the loan is for much less than the value of the house.