Insurance firms still awaiting clarification over mandatory health insurance for non-immigrant (O-A) visa

[webfact]

Insurance firms still awaiting clarification over mandatory health insurance for non-immigrant (O-A) visa

 

File photo

 

Following the announcement the Thai government plans to make it a mandatory requirement that those seeking a non-immigrant (O-A) visa have health insurance, insurance firms in Thailand are still awaiting clarification on how exactly the new requirements will be implemented.

 

There also remains some confusion regarding a number of issues, including co-pays, deductibles and pre-existing conditions, Nick Potter, CEO Aetna Thailand told Thaivisa.

 

A statement from Mr Potter regarding the current situation can be found below:

 

Following the recent announcement regarding health insurance requirements for foreigners living in Thailand there remains a great deal of uncertainty – the following represent my understanding of the current situation and is naturally subject to change when more details are released.

 

Based on conversations with the various authorities, and in line with the advice given on the government’s consular (http://www.consular.go.th), the new requirement only currently applies to those applying for the non-immigrant visa “O-X” (Long Stay Visa 10 years). This is the relatively new visa aimed at those over 50 years old with the initial visa granted for 5 years, with the ability to extend for a further 5 years. It comes with other requirements around significant cash balances held in a Thai bank account and is only available to residents of 14 countries.

 

However, I understand that many foreigners residing in Thailand are on the “O-A” visa type which lasts initially for a single year but can be renewed or extended annually as long as the financial, and other, conditions are met showing the person can support themselves adequately. Currently, the new health insurance requirements do not apply to this visa type. However, the health insurance requirement is expected to become a legal requirement for the O-A visas, new and extending, within the next 3-6 months.

 

The other visa many people may have entered Thailand on is the non-immigrant “O”. Initially granted for 90 days, this visa type but can subsequently be extended for a full year and then renewed on an annual basis - often referred to as an “extension of stay based on retirement”. It has similar requirements as the “O-A” visa to ensure applicants can support themselves while residing in Thailand. Currently, this visa type has not been mentioned in relation to the new requirements for health insurance.

 

There are a few specific areas I am continuing to seek clarity on, particularly around the use of co-pays / deductibles / excesses on these policies and how the immigration authorities will treat any excluded medical conditions and/or waiting periods. Once we understand these details further Aetna will be able to recommend policies to their current customer base and expat residents in Thailand that will meet the Thai immigration requirements.

 

It should be remembered that the cover levels, especially the in-patient level, set by the visa requirements are a minimum amount for the purposes of applying for the visa. Each individual should review if this level of cover would be adequate given their own health situation, medical history and preference for treating hospital.

 

As further information comes to light I will share this with you through this forum.

 

In the meantime if anyone has questions specific to their individual situation please feel free to mail me on  [email protected].

 

 

-- © Copyright Thai Visa News 2019-05-28

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[zydeco]

Always good to have a picture of just who we are dealing with. Nice tie.

[Thailand]

Not enough money in the Non imm(O-A) alone. The insurance companies will be pushing for much bigger slices of the expat pie.

Just my opinion.

[smedly]

nothing but sales pitch trying to expand the scope of these rules to include extensions 

 

I regard these companies as the bottom feeders of finance

[Robin]

This all seems very vague and open to various interpretations by individual I/O's. 

How will it affect me?  I am returning to Thailand in June, after holiday in UK, entering on the rump of my  'Retirement Visa,' which expires at the end of June.  Normally, (for the last few years) I would have no problems in getting another 12 months extension for this visa at my local I/O as I have enough money in the bank to meet all their requirements.

if I get past Immigration at Swampy, I will try to get the extension done asap. so hopefully will have a year to decide what to do, and see what health insurance is on offer.

To me this looks like another move by Thailand to tell me that I am not welcome in LOS any more.

As the retirement visa was a Taksin idea is this another way of erasing every memory of him?

Will here be various 'Insurance Policies' on offer by Visa agents?  How long is the policy to be valid?  

Will I be able to buy a 1 Year policy to show I/o and then cancel it and get refund?? 

If I m refused entry on my Retirement Visa, will I be able to enter on a normal 28 day non-visa arrival, (UK passport) try to negotiate some insurance in Thailand?

[Nowisee]

The big question is will they continue the march through the various visas/extensions to ultimately include ALL?  

 

Also, to how many foreigners is this a dual (already have a foreign policy) and unnecessary expenditure?  And, to a lesser extend the same with the mandatory money in country rule?

 

[Mango Bob]

This seems more like an advertisement than to provide the information we really already knew.  But you can just get ahold of him if you need to know if the requirements affect you.  I have better health insurance than he has and it free for my service.

[Mango Bob]

48 minutes ago, Nowisee said:

The big question is will they continue the march through the various visas/extensions to ultimately include ALL?  

 

Also, to how many foreigners is this a dual (already have a foreign policy) and unnecessary expenditure?  And, to a lesser extend the same with the mandatory money in country rule?

 

You can count on it and so are all the insurance companies. 

[Nowisee]

39 minutes ago, Mango Bob said:

You can count on it and so are all the insurance companies. 

 

Am I the only one that is suspicious and a bit cynical of the "intentions" of this policy change?

[Maestro]

The OP contains a lot of misinformation.

[AhFarangJa]

I think it is a safe bet that once the wrinkles are ironed out for the first set of requirements then the law will encompass all foreigners regardless of your visa type, duration, or age. It is too much of a cash cow for these people to let go.

[Juan B Tong]

Drooling pigs waiting at the trough.

[Cabradelmar]

And this is why we should not be forced to buy anything that has vultures like this at the till.

Where is the self insure option in all this?

[spambot]

 

Is this comment correct?

 

I thought this insurance was only for when the initial application for the O-A Visa was made and was not if it was extended?

 

Next 3-6 months? - Not sometime in July?

[rott]

16 hours ago, Robin said:

This all seems very vague and open to various interpretations by individual I/O's. 

How will it affect me?  I am returning to Thailand in June, after holiday in UK, entering on the rump of my  'Retirement Visa,' which expires at the end of June.  Normally, (for the last few years) I would have no problems in getting another 12 months extension for this visa at my local I/O as I have enough money in the bank to meet all their requirements.

if I get past Immigration at Swampy, I will try to get the extension done asap. so hopefully will have a year to decide what to do, and see what health insurance is on offer.

To me this looks like another move by Thailand to tell me that I am not welcome in LOS any more.

As the retirement visa was a Taksin idea is this another way of erasing every memory of him?

Will here be various 'Insurance Policies' on offer by Visa agents?  How long is the policy to be valid?  

Will I be able to buy a 1 Year policy to show I/o and then cancel it and get refund?? 

If I m refused entry on my Retirement Visa, will I be able to enter on a normal 28 day non-visa arrival, (UK passport) try to negotiate some insurance in Thailand?

You do not have a retirement visa.

The visa is not renewed, the "stay" is extended, and this does not got get renewed but has to be re-applied for annually.

The OP is not 100% clear on this either.

As regards your queries, the last one is yes. The others, nobody knows nuffink.

[soisanuk]

18 hours ago, webfact said:

However, I understand that many foreigners residing in Thailand are on the “O-A” visa type which lasts initially for a single year but can be renewed or extended annually as long as the financial, and other, conditions are met showing the person can support themselves adequately. Currently, the new health insurance requirements do not apply to this visa type. However, the health insurance requirement is expected to become a legal requirement for the O-A visas, new and extending, within the next 3-6 months.

An assumption that it will apply to extensions of stay that are based on entry with an O-A Visa - this IMO is still an unanswered question.  The articles by the Ministry of Public Health official did refer to renewing an O-A (which is not done, but extending a permission to stay when the initial permission is based on an O-A is done by Immigration, not Ministry of Health or Ministry of Foreign Affairs - so the question is, will Immigration when all this gets sorted between these 3 Gov't agencies, consider the Cabinet's approval to include extending a stay based on an O-A Visa?  Perhaps Immigration may balk at doing so as it would require them to determine what documentation would be acceptable for those that have non-Thai health insurance policies that cover them in Thailand, a burden.  Until Immigration chimes in on what they will or will not require re health insurance, the question will remain unanswered.

[Pedrogaz]

17 hours ago, Thailand said:

Not enough money in the Non imm(O-A) alone. The insurance companies will be pushing for much bigger slices of the expat pie.

Just my opinion.

They will be major league gouging as all insurance companies do when the insurance is mandatory and there is no government schemes to control prices. Expect to pay 5000 baht per month for the very limited coverage and exclusions for anything related to pre-exisiting illnesses.

[sqwakvfr]

This may take some time to sort out.  I am focused in one aspect:  Online Application for Health Insurance in order to meet this new requirement for future applicants of the Non Imm OA.  I have done research and it appears at present a paper application has to be submitted for underwriting review or an Insurance Agent are the only two options for the companies listed on the MFA Website.  

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, AhFarangJa said:

I think it is a safe bet that once the wrinkles are ironed out for the first set of requirements then the law will encompass all foreigners regardless of your visa type, duration, or age. It is too much of a cash cow for these people to let go.

I doubt the health insurance requirement would be extended to tourist visas, because tourism to Thailand on the terms desired by the Thai insurance companies would fall off a cliff. A 100 baht charge on entry for everyone is reasonable. 40 - 50 K for insurance to come here or stay here 3 months? Many people would simply go elsewhere.

I think the saying about killing the goose that lays the golden eggs applies. Thai authorities don't seem to realise neighboring countries that get more tourists at Thailand's expense will have more money to improve their infrastructure, creating a virtuous cycle. In contrast, the 800K deposits that disappear from Thai banks as retirees remove themselves to friendlier countries won't be counterbalanced by extra medical insurance company income. That's called robbing Peter to pay Paul.

[The Fugitive]

7 minutes ago, sqwakvfr said:

This may take some time to sort out.  I am focused in one aspect:  Online Application for Health Insurance in order to meet this new requirement for future applicants of the Non Imm OA.  I have done research and it appears at present a paper application has to be submitted for underwriting review or an Insurance Agent are the only two options for the companies listed on the MFA Website.  

Thank you for your investigative efforts and for letting us know. As you say, these things take time. The thought of completing paper application forms takes me back. Where I once worked a guy joked 'if you ask a Mancunian to fill out a form you immediately have a problem'. Cheeky!

[The Fugitive]

17 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I doubt the health insurance requirement would be extended to tourist visas, because tourism to Thailand on the terms desired by the Thai insurance companies would fall off a cliff. A 100 baht charge on entry for everyone is reasonable. 40 - 50 K for insurance to come here or stay here 3 months? Many people would simply go elsewhere.

I think the saying about killing the goose that lays the golden eggs applies. Thai authorities don't seem to realise neighboring countries that get more tourists at Thailand's expense will have more money to improve their infrastructure, creating a virtuous cycle. In contrast, the 800K deposits that disappear from Thai banks as retirees remove themselves to friendlier countries won't be counterbalanced by extra medical insurance company income. That's called robbing Peter to pay Paul.

Can't see a mass exodus of retirees resulting. My Thai Mrs came up with a solution; 'take out the cheapest policy that qualifies and tick 'no' to all the questions. If they ask for a medical report get one for 60 baht, the doctor doesn't question or examine you'. The policy would be for immigration purposes only, you have to accept you couldn't ever make a claim. Visa agents may offer a 'workaround' too.

[Lacessit]

1 minute ago, The Fugitive said:

Can't see a mass exodus of retirees resulting. My Thai Mrs came up with a solution; 'take out the cheapest policy that qualifies and tick 'no' to all the questions. If they ask for a medical report get one for 60 baht, the doctor doesn't question or examine you'. The policy would be for immigration purposes only, you have to accept you couldn't ever make a claim. Visa agents may offer a 'workaround' too.

You may be right, and there will be cheap options. However, with pre-existing conditions and age, I may not be able to get on the merry-go-round. Plan B is to come here 6 months of the year on tourist visas after selling everything and withdrawing all my cash. I may leave 100 baht in each account. The other 6 months of the year will be in more accommodating countries.

[spambot]

1 hour ago, soisanuk said:

An assumption that it will apply to extensions of stay that are based on entry with an O-A Visa - this IMO is still an unanswered question.  The articles by the Ministry of Public Health official did refer to renewing an O-A (which is not done, but extending a permission to stay when the initial permission is based on an O-A is done by Immigration, not Ministry of Health or Ministry of Foreign Affairs - so the question is, will Immigration when all this gets sorted between these 3 Gov't agencies, consider the Cabinet's approval to include extending a stay based on an O-A Visa?  Perhaps Immigration may balk at doing so as it would require them to determine what documentation would be acceptable for those that have non-Thai health insurance policies that cover them in Thailand, a burden.  Until Immigration chimes in on what they will or will not require re health insurance, the question will remain unanswered.

Good call - questioning if insurance is  "to include extending a stay based on an O-A Visa" - The answer did seem conclusive on this previous topic posts - In that no insurance would be required if extending stay specifically when it's based upon initial O-A visa. This guy states the opposite.

[gk10002000]

I commend the article and original post to mention the O A and O visas.  I am surprised it said the current plan was meant to refer to the O x 10 year visa.  That had not been mentioned any place else I was aware of. But that makes some sense because that visa did have some words about requiring medical insurance.

[Dania2019]

Insurance companies are greedy. And the Thai government does not seem indifferent to the foreigners who have lived in Thailand for 10 years or more and have provided families and assisted Thai children's education. Many of them are approaching the age of 80 and have nothing to return to if they are hunted out of the country in grotesque ways. Most of them are married and put their trust in being able to live with their Thai family at the end of the day. They have therefore invested their moving fortunes, and thus all they own in Thai society. It is no less than a scandal that one might even at all intend to destroy the lives of the families and thus the aliens who, in confidence, have chosen a life in another. Most of us have contributed to the country's strength far more than the average of the Thai population, without being able to acquire the benefits that the Thai citizen has. This is a major shortcoming in the board's work, and we are many who are amazed at the infinite selfish behavior steered by us in a myriad of areas. You can't spare our money, just as you can't do without the revenue of the 36 million people who visit the country every year. But you will notice the misdeeds that the country's reputation is shaky. Thaibahten is held at an unreasonably high rate, and the dam has been strengthened by more than 30% over the past two years without the ordinary citizen having benefited.

[soisanuk]

2 hours ago, gk10002000 said:

I commend the article and original post to mention the O A and O visas.  I am surprised it said the current plan was meant to refer to the O x 10 year visa.  That had not been mentioned any place else I was aware of. But that makes some sense because that visa did have some words about requiring medical insurance.

If you check the Thai Embassy in Washington, DC, USA, website, you will see that it is indeed mandatory for applicants to have health insurance from a Thai Insurance Company with a link to the website showing companies offering a policy that meets the requirements.

 

The recent announcements by a Ministry of Public Health official re health insurance for the O-A Visa notes that health insurance that meets the requirements from a non-Thai company would also be acceptable.  This IMO will be one of the stumbling blocks for implementing the new requirement as the 3 agencies (health, foreign affairs, & Immigration) will have to come up with how such Non-Thai insurance will need to be documented to be acceptable.  

[gk10002000]

8 hours ago, soisanuk said:

If you check the Thai Embassy in Washington, DC, USA, website, you will see that it is indeed mandatory for applicants to have health insurance from a Thai Insurance Company with a link to the website showing companies offering a policy that meets the requirements.

 

The recent announcements by a Ministry of Public Health official re health insurance for the O-A Visa notes that health insurance that meets the requirements from a non-Thai company would also be acceptable.  This IMO will be one of the stumbling blocks for implementing the new requirement as the 3 agencies (health, foreign affairs, & Immigration) will have to come up with how such Non-Thai insurance will need to be documented to be acceptable.  

yep.  Difficult if not impossible to organize and sort out.  So many pitfalls

[lockman07]

This mandatory insurance is 100% BS.  I went to the immigration in Chiang Mai & one the top officials there told me that there is NO INSURANCE REQUIREMENT & NO PLANS FOR ONE.  She was tired of getting all these requests & asked me to tell all my friends that this is a rumor.  I myself was convinced after all this hype that this was going to happen & she told me to forget it.  

[arithai12]

1 hour ago, lockman07 said:

This mandatory insurance is 100% BS.  I went to the immigration in Chiang Mai & one the top officials there told me that there is NO INSURANCE REQUIREMENT & NO PLANS FOR ONE.  She was tired of getting all these requests & asked me to tell all my friends that this is a rumor.  I myself was convinced after all this hype that this was going to happen & she told me to forget it.  

You forgot to mention what was your question to the officer. Did you inquire about insurance plans for extension, and if so which type? The officer wouldn't necessarily know about plans of insurance for visas (which are issued abroad).

[lamyai3]

On 5/28/2019 at 5:04 PM, Robin said:

How will it affect me?  I am returning to Thailand in June, after holiday in UK, entering on the rump of my  'Retirement Visa,' which expires at the end of June.  Normally, (for the last few years) I would have no problems in getting another 12 months extension for this visa at my local I/O as I have enough money in the bank to meet all their requirements.

You'll be able to return as normal without any issues on your current visa or re-entry permit. Nothing has been finalised regarding the insurance yet, and earlier announcements state that it's for new Non O-A applications only (from 1st July).

 

On 5/28/2019 at 5:04 PM, Robin said:

As the retirement visa was a Taksin idea is this another way of erasing every memory of him?

The visa class you're on predates the Thaksin era. The only visa introduced during his time in office was the Elite, which they're currently pushing more eagerly than ever.