800K 5 Months 400K Indefinitely In Bank For Ext To Stay Based In Retirement

[Toany]

 
Except that the moment you spend it for that you no longer qualify for your extension of stay.
 
(And of course 400k is ridiculously low for medical cover here. But TI apparently does not know that...or else just settled for what local insurance companies wanted to offer).
 
 

But the hospital bill is at least partly paid. If you cannot meet the requirements for your visa that is your problem, not theirs.
You will have to return home.
Are you expecting compassion from immigration?

In Thailand goal posts have wheels

[elviajero]

1 hour ago, bkk6060 said:

Not at all.

Agents are the life blood of the system.

10's of millions of baht spread throughout RTP.

Immigration encourages agent use and the prices have gone up double or triple now.

It is easier, faster, and more efficient for them to process. And much more money for them.

Agents are and will never be banned..

Who said anything about banning agents? The authorities have no problem with agents. It’s fraud they are trying to stop.

[elviajero]

2 hours ago, Graviton said:

Ok, then some people will be leaving I suppose.....

Definitely.

[bkk6060]

55 minutes ago, elviajero said:

Who said anything about banning agents? The authorities have no problem with agents. It’s fraud they are trying to stop.

You are right my poor comprehension sorry.

[phuketrichard]

4 hours ago, Graviton said:

Could it be as simple as no mandatory health but keep 400k for emergency treatment? It's the same amount for insurance plus you don't need 40k for outpatient as you have that too...... Self insurance...

BUT if u use any of that 400,000 in the year your next extension will be denied.

 

They did it cause they can

no one here will ever be able to tell you why but one thing, it wont stop the agents

[sniggie]

2 hours ago, elviajero said:

Who said anything about banning agents? The authorities have no problem with agents. It’s fraud they are trying to stop.

But what agents do might sometimes be fraudulent - or am I missing something?

[elviajero]

48 minutes ago, sniggie said:

3 hours ago, elviajero said:

Who said anything about banning agents? The authorities have no problem with agents. It’s fraud they are trying to stop.

But what agents do might sometimes be fraudulent - or am I missing something?

Many people use agents to help complete and submit 100% legit applications. Some people use agents to provide fraudulent documents etc. The latter being the problem the authorities are going after.

[marcusarelus]

6 hours ago, Graviton said:

Some guys will have to leave which is sad......

Probably more of an embassy problem than Immigration in terms of numbers of people leaving. 

[Scott]

Off-topic post removed.

 

[Maestro]

Since nothing but guesses are available here, for understandable reasons, the OP may want to contact directly one or both officials who signed the Immigration Memorandum 35/2562.

 

https://forum.thaivisa.com/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=567952

[JackThompson]

10 hours ago, yodsak said:

To stop agents.

Agent-applications have always skipped the seasoning, and still do.  Agents only loaned the money for a day anyway, so 2 mo, 3 mo, 6 mo seasoning - not checked for them, so doesn't have any effect at all.

 

This can only force more Honest applicants to agents, in combination with the end of embassy-letters from several high-volume targets. 

 

3 hours ago, sniggie said:

But what agents do might sometimes be fraudulent - or am I missing something?

That is immigration's primary business, though it's politely called "tea money" - I call it "tribute." 

 

The secondary, much less important (to them) role, are the "official" duties.  This involves some cursory screening of folks entering.  At some entry-points, if the visitor has been here often, and not staying via a means that offers tea-money opportunities, they make up and break rules as suits them to punish non "rewarding" activity.

 

Also, processing extension-applications at offices - though, in many cases, just looking to see if there is a way to deny a legit-applicant so they must use an agent.  This is how the authorities encourage as much agent-use as possible - with the "faked money" agent-applications paying the most tea-money.  They are now making it more difficult for those who retired here under the old rules, and who could meet those rules - "teaching them a lesson" for not paying tribute via agents.

 

Even in the case of applicants who don't need faked-money, the IOs receive enough grease to overlook missing TM-30s, skip home-visits, don't ask for landlord-docs, etc.  Basically, all those bits are just to make you hate going in person - to make the experience miserable - so they can get you to use an agent.

Edited May 30, 2019 by JackThompson

[elviajero]

1 hour ago, JackThompson said:

Agent-applications have always skipped the seasoning, and still do. 

No they haven't and no they don't. There is no special arrangement for 'agents'. It is only agents in league with corrupt IO's that can get any requirements waved.

 

1 hour ago, JackThompson said:

Agents only loaned the money for a day anyway, so 2 mo, 3 mo, 6 mo seasoning - not checked for them, so doesn't have any effect at all.

We will have to wait and see what happens when people renew and need to show bank books with the minimum balances for the whole year.

 

1 hour ago, JackThompson said:

4 hours ago, sniggie said:

But what agents do might sometimes be fraudulent - or am I missing something?

That is immigration's primary business, though it's politely called "tea money" - I call it "tribute."

We know all about your anti-immigration bias, but where is your evidence? All I see is IO's/agents taking advantage of a vary lax system.

 

If "immigration" wanted it as their primary business they would simply insist ALL applications go through agents.

[elviajero]

1 hour ago, JackThompson said:

The secondary, much less important (to them) role, are the "official" duties.  This involves some cursory screening of folks entering.  At some entry-points, if the visitor has been here often, and not staying via a means that offers tea-money opportunities, they make up and break rules as suits them to punish non "rewarding" activity.

OMG! So you are now claiming that IO's at borders deny entry to people because their mates in the immigration offices can't extort any money from them! Plot completely lost!

[elviajero]

1 hour ago, JackThompson said:

Also, processing extension-applications at offices - though, in many cases, just looking to see if there is a way to deny a legit-applicant so they must use an agent.  This is how the authorities encourage as much agent-use as possible - with the "faked money" agent-applications paying the most tea-money. 

I have never been forced to use an agent. And I don't know anyone else that has either.

 

If you understood Thai bureaucracy you would understand and that, in most cases, employees will follow their instructions to the letter and if the boss says photos must be upside down and on pink paper thats what they will insist you provide.

 

I accept that at one or two offices the staff are pushing applicants to use agents, but the authorities are not encouraging the use of agents.

 

1 hour ago, JackThompson said:

They are now making it more difficult for those who retired here under the old rules, and who could meet those rules - "teaching them a lesson" for not paying tribute via agents.

Complete nonsense!

 

[dcnx]

10 hours ago, Graviton said:

What and not ask why?

“Why” doesn’t matter. You either meet the requirements or you start packing. 

 

Focusing on the WHY is a huge waste of time. There’s a 95% chance the head of immigration doesn’t even know why.

[Delight]

In effect each farang who uses the 800K/400K sytem for visa extension is giving Thailand 400K

Multiply that by the number of farang who use that system then you end up with a big gift for Thailand.

This must be good news for Thailand.

Thai authorities  like 'good news for Thailand'

If you recognise this then everything makes sense.

[Toany]

Complete nonsense!
 

If it is complete nonsense, why are they asking owners to turn up in person to file the TM 30?

In Thailand goal posts have wheels

[Destiny1990]

Probably just to make your life more complicated here and to weed out all undesirables such as that family with the Alzheimer  mother who were spending 180 k monthly here and are now in Manila.

Edited May 31, 2019 by Destiny1990

[Joe Mcseismic]

5 hours ago, elviajero said:

I have never been forced to use an agent. And I don't know anyone else that has either.

Same here regarding Phuket immigration.

If your paperwork is in order, getting your extension is a breeze.

If it isn't, you won't get one until it is.

 

Phuket immigration has improved over the years. Separate room for extensions, drive-thru for 90 day reporting and TM30, ticket number for correct desk given by volunteers after paperwork check, so no one goes to a desk with incorrect/incomplete paperwork which saves everyone's time. Never heard of anyone being referred to an agent.

[jacko45k]

17 hours ago, yodsak said:

To stop agents.

 

To appear to be stopping agents, when in reality they were simply forcing the retirees who were struggling into their hands. (They believe we are all stupid of course). By that method increasing the money immigration takes.

Always follow the money. 

[gmac]

3 minutes ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

Same here regarding Phuket immigration.

If your paperwork is in order, getting your extension is a breeze.

If it isn't, you won't get one until it is.

 

Phuket immigration has improved over the years. Separate room for extensions, drive-thru for 90 day reporting and TM30, ticket number for correct desk given by volunteers after paperwork check, so no one goes to a desk with incorrect/incomplete paperwork which saves everyone's time. Never heard of anyone being referred to an agent.

Great idea about separate rooms for extensions and drive-thru 90 day and TM30's, the biggest headache in Jomtien is getting your ticket from the paperwork checkers as the queue from their front desk is frequently right out into the car park.  You arrive with all the right docs for your extension then have to wait half an hour to get a ticket. 

[JackThompson]

6 hours ago, elviajero said:

No they haven't and no they don't. There is no special arrangement for 'agents'. It is only agents in league with corrupt IO's that can get any requirements waved.

I have yet to see any reports of a "home visit" from an agent application, denial based on landlord-docs, etc.  Even those not faking their financials who use agents still benefit from shared tea-money - to skip the queue and avoid all the mostly-pointless "extra requirements" added to hassle honest, in-person applicants.

 

6 hours ago, elviajero said:

We will have to wait and see what happens when people renew and need to show bank books with the minimum balances for the whole year.

Yes, but the only downside would seem to be the "trap" aspect - "Use an agent now, and must use an agent forever," - or go out and start over.

 

6 hours ago, elviajero said:

We know all about your anti-immigration bias, but where is your evidence? All I see is IO's/agents taking advantage of a vary lax system.

Even where it's not "lax" - a marriage-based application, for instance - requiring a district sign-off - the only difference is another 10K of extra tea-money for signature at the next level.

 

Agents have storefronts, place ads everywhere, etc -  often advertising that they fake the financials.  It would not be hard for the higher-ups to shut them down, if they wanted to stop faked-financials applications and end corruption.  The veneer is so thin, a sting-op would be child's play.  It's hard to argue ignorance of the practice as an excuse, which leads directly to higher levels up being in on the action.

 

6 hours ago, elviajero said:

If "immigration" wanted it as their primary business they would simply insist ALL applications go through agents.

That would remove the illusion of "plausible legitimacy."  Some who haven't been been messed-over by immigration yet, still think, "It's all fine if you don't have tattoos and meet the official guidelines."  

 

But anyone paying attention sees that each office / IO / supervisor can make up anything they want, regardless of the "real rules" - nothing is done to stop this.  Is Samui still demanding honest, in-person retiree-applicants go to the hospital for a health-check?  And for how many years after this requirement was officially dropped?  It never ends.

[Joe Mcseismic]

1 minute ago, gmac said:

Great idea about separate rooms for extensions and drive-thru 90 day and TM30's, the biggest headache in Jomtien is getting your ticket from the paperwork checkers as the queue from their front desk is frequently right out into the car park.  You arrive with all the right docs for your extension then have to wait half an hour to get a ticket. 

No ticket needed for the room for extensions in Phuket. It's a very small room with only four seats. An immigration officer checks the paperwork outside the room first before you are allowed in. Very rarely have I seen more than six people waiting to do their extension (mind you, I always turn up at around two in the afternoon).

My only wish is that the immigration officers go back to wearing colourful shirts rather than their military uniforms. That didn't last very long, unfortunately.

[luckyluke]

16 minutes ago, Destiny1990 said:

probably just to make your life more complicated here

Since 15 years nothing complicated, in fact very easy, for me and many others.

 

No need to have any money in a Thai bank, no need to transfer monthly a minimum of 65000 ThB,

as an Income Letter is still accepted, and welcomed, for all countries except 3.

 

Of course it is possible that they suppress/amend this option one day.

 

In fact nothing is for sure here, all things can be altered.

 

In the meantime...

[Toany]

They expected my owner to take a day off work and make a 400 km round trip to file the first TM 30 for me. They then require me submit two TM 30s each week because I live upcountry and visit Bangkok each week.

They are just trying to make our lives difficult or use an agent.

In Thailand goal posts have wheels

[JackThompson]

6 hours ago, elviajero said:

I have never been forced to use an agent. And I don't know anyone else that has either.

Glad you have been fortunate.   They do this by targeting a portion of the applicant population.  For example - marriage-based in Jomtien if you rent are targeted for extortion.  Up where I live now - marriage-based on income if not on a state-pension.

 

Quote

If you understood Thai bureaucracy you would understand and that, in most cases, employees will follow their instructions to the letter and if the boss says photos must be upside down and on pink paper thats what they will insist you provide.

I do not blame the low-level IOs for following orders - except in situations like the recent airport case, where the supervisor was obviously using them to generate "leads" for his "send me money and I'll let you enter Thailand," scheme.  Likely the low-level IOs are getting a cut of the action, in this case, so would be culpable.

 

Quote

I accept that at one or two offices the staff are pushing applicants to use agents, but the authorities are not encouraging the use of agents.

Most larger offices (serving the vast majority of us) are fully-entrenched in the agent-system - Jomtien, Phuket, CM, UT.  In smaller offices, the payments are usually made direct, to avoid "difficult" service.

 

And now, BKK is using the "landlord docs" and "leave the money in the bank longer" tricks on marriage-based applicants.  They have always used "skip the queue" as the primary encouragement, but seem to be ramping-up a bit for the "more difficult" marriage-based applications.  Why would they try to harm or break up families this way?  The only logical answer is greed / "Oh, so much work - I need to be paid extra for this."

 

The authorities must know it is happening - BJ did, and even talked about it - but then made up the fairy-tale that the IOs didn't know the financials were faked, when they most certainly do - as they skip seasoning-checks to make those applications possible.  

 

All BJ (or any higher-up) had to do was ask any foreigner to go into an agent's office, to find out exactly how it works.  I did - took me about 30 minutes to get multiple quotes, with full-details on the racket.

 

6 hours ago, elviajero said:

OMG! So you are now claiming that IO's at borders deny entry to people because their mates in the immigration offices can't extort any money from them! Plot completely lost!

Clear as day.  "What's in it for me," is their thinking.  In the recent reported-case, since their "mark" was not staying enough for that racket, they attempted to set up a "pay me in advance and I'll let you in - if you come just 2x a year or more," deal. 

 

More than a week or two a year, and the bad-apples within immigration want their "tea money" piece of you.

 

Glad all entry-points aren't in on this - yet.

Edited May 31, 2019 by JackThompson

[Chicken George]

17 hours ago, yodsak said:

To stop agents.

 

Totally not true.. Agents still everywhere even openly advertising on Thsivisa.. 

[Henryford]

I finally managed to open a Bangkok bank account and my first test transfer has the magical FTT prefix. I will have to use the 800k this year but hope from 2020 i can move to the 65k monthly  income method.

Edited May 31, 2019 by Henryford

[Chicken George]

16 hours ago, Graviton said:

Could it be as simple as no mandatory health but keep 400k for emergency treatment? It's the same amount for insurance plus you don't need 40k for outpatient as you have that too...... Self insurance...

But if you use the money even for a medical reason they Will Not then extend your visa next time its due..

[onera1961]

Does anyone know the reasoning behind the new rule from 1st March???? No guessing please

When immigration makes a decision, they don't invite reps from Thai visa. Hence, everything is speculation.

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