Fingerprints - what are they checked against?

[brewsterbudgen]

Now that biometrics and specifically fingerprints are being checked at Suvarnabhumi, does anyone know what they are checked against, if anything?

 

1. As this is new, are they just being recorded by Immigration for the first time, to build their database?

 

2. Are they checked against a global (maybe INTERPOL) database to look for international criminals?

 

3. Are they checked against the Thai Police's database of fingerprints, to look for anyone who has committed a crime in Thailand?

 

4. Is it completely separate from any criminal database and purely an Immigration check?

 

5. Have people banned from Thailand been fingerprinted, so the check will discover anyone travelling on a new/fake passport?

 

(Moderator: Please feel free to move this if it's in the wrong Forum.)

 

 

[BestB]

Most likely all that you had listed.

[Briggsy]

I suspect it is 1 & 4.

 

If they have some reason to suspect the person entering (or exiting) is not the passport holder, they can refer to previous entries and exits. I don't think this would be an automatic check, they would need to look it up in the same way they can look up facial photos of previous entries and exits.

[RJRS1301]

With the correct IT search, could be identified within a very short period of time within their data base

Linking the RTP database and other databases could be done, reasonably easily

 

[RJRS1301]

Link to other countries databases could be problematic though

[darksidedog]

I believe it is mostly an internal database, which is there to ensure that the person who arrives with a specific passport, is the same person who is subsequently leaving, so stolen passports can't be used by another, or those who have been blacklisted from re-entering. That is what Cambodia uses. It would make sense to have data from Interpol for serious criminals on the run, but I don't believe they will be capable of hooking into other countries data.

[wgdanson]

They cannot check mine in any data base because in my 71 years of life, i have NEVER had my fingerprints taken.

Got a new passport last year, no dabs on the chip. Went out & back in to Thailand a couple of times, no dabs.

I do not think they can get any optical or facial details from the photo on my passport as the resolution is not good enough.

[KhunBENQ]

Many countries have introduced mandatory biometric passports.

For those fingerprinting is done and saved on the chip that is embedded in

the passport.

So quite certain this check against the passport is included.

 

Entering the US for a foreigner without a biometric passport requires a visa independent of other visa rules.

 

My fingerprints were taken at the consulate on last passport renewal and it doesn't give you dirty fingers. Just putting finger(s) on some sensorplate.

 

My smartphone has also taken my thumb print

Edited June 2, 2019 by KhunBENQ

[RJRS1301]

2 hours ago, wgdanson said:

They cannot check mine in any data base because in my 71 years of life, i have NEVER had my fingerprints taken.

Got a new passport last year, no dabs on the chip. Went out & back in to Thailand a couple of times, no dabs.

I do not think they can get any optical or facial details from the photo on my passport as the resolution is not good enough.

They will have you on record from the first imprint to check against second time through, first time is building the content of the database

[geoffbezoz]

7 minutes ago, KhunBENQ said:

Many countries have introduced mandatory biometric passports.

For those fingerprinting is done and saved on the chip that is embedded in

the passport.

So quite certain this check against the passport is included.

 

Entering the US for a foreigner without a biometric passport requires a visa independent of other visa rules.

 

My fingerprints were taken at the consulate on last passport renewal and it doesn't give you dirty fingers. Just putting finger(s) on some sensorplate.

 

My smartphone has also taken my thumb print

Which reminds me of something donkey years ago of trying to get one of the young ladies from the tracing office to sit on top of the xerox machine that had just come out. 

Edited June 2, 2019 by geoffbezoz

[KhunBENQ]

2 hours ago, wgdanson said:

I do not think they can get any optical or facial details from the photo on my passport as the resolution is not good enough.

But that was their first success story.

Some guy where the passport photo didn't match biometrics of the face.

 

Traditional biometrics might trigger alarm even based only on some simple geometrics (position/distance of eyes, nose, mouth, chin).

 

 

Edited June 2, 2019 by KhunBENQ

[brewsterbudgen]

Thanks for the replies.

 

So, if someone committed an offence in Thailand 10 years ago (for example, working without a work permit), and was fingerprinted at the time by the Thai police and subsequently deported, would that show up from the fingerprint check carried out at the airport?

[RJRS1301]

3 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Thanks for the replies.

 

So, if someone committed an offence in Thailand 10 years ago (for example, working without a work permit), and was fingerprinted at the time by the Thai police and subsequently deported, would that show up from the fingerprint check carried out at the airport?

Unlikely at this stage, unless the databases are linked.

Building the content of the Immigration database would be essential before migrating in other databases, I would imagine 

[wgdanson]

1 hour ago, KhunBENQ said:

Many countries have introduced mandatory biometric passports.

For those fingerprinting is done and saved on the chip that is embedded in

the passport.

So quite certain this check against the passport is included.

 

Entering the US for a foreigner without a biometric passport requires a visa independent of other visa rules.

 

My fingerprints were taken at the consulate on last passport renewal and it doesn't give you dirty fingers. Just putting finger(s) on some sensorplate.

 

My smartphone has also taken my thumb print

As I said previously, I have NEVER had my prints taken, so they cannot check with any on the chip.

[RJRS1301]

15 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

As I said previously, I have NEVER had my prints taken, so they cannot check with any on the chip.

 

15 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

As I said previously, I have NEVER had my prints taken, so they cannot check with any on the chip.

But once you go through immigration you will be on their database, and compared on re-entry

[Chivas]

1 hour ago, wgdanson said:

As I said previously, I have NEVER had my prints taken, so they cannot check with any on the chip.

95% plus will never have had the prints taken but I certainly have albeit not in Thailand obviously. Soon see if those databases worldwide are linked lol upon next arrival

[legend49]

22 hours ago, darksidedog said:

I believe it is mostly an internal database, which is there to ensure that the person who arrives with a specific passport, is the same person who is subsequently leaving, so stolen passports can't be used by another, or those who have been blacklisted from re-entering. That is what Cambodia uses. It would make sense to have data from Interpol for serious criminals on the run, but I don't believe they will be capable of hooking into other countries data.

Agree with you. I have the same when arriving in Singapore and West African countries. You scan or arrival and then on departure, and no TM 6 cards they are gone replaced by scanning prints.????????

[mvdf]

19 hours ago, RJRS1301 said:

Unlikely at this stage, unless the databases are linked.

Building the content of the Immigration database would be essential before migrating in other databases, I would imagine 

Yes of course! Stop trying to instill a sense of denial in nervous westerners who are here hiding from the law of their lands! 

 

If you have anything to hide, this technology will expose you and if you are found guilty of whatever you're hiding, you will face the law. 

 

End of the days of using Asia as hiding places.

 

[thesetat2013]

It is kind of a scary thought allowing thailand immigration to retain biometric and passport data on their tourists given their capacity for permitting easy access to their database as shown previously with incompetent use of passwords. 

But what choice does anyone have if wanting to enter now into Thailand. There will always be an underlying fear identities will het stolen at some point in the future. 

[Burma Bill]

On 6/2/2019 at 8:39 AM, wgdanson said:

They cannot check mine in any data base because in my 71 years of life, i have NEVER had my fingerprints taken.

Got a new passport last year, no dabs on the chip. Went out & back in to Thailand a couple of times, no dabs.

I do not think they can get any optical or facial details from the photo on my passport as the resolution is not good enough.

Similar to me (other than elimination prints whilst working for the UK Forensic Service) but it could happen should you use Air Asia's Fly-thru service to an international destination from Phitsanulok Airport if Immigration is done at source - as I experienced at Khon Kaen Airport 2 weeks ago where I had the "Full Monty"!

Edited June 3, 2019 by Burma Bill
additional information

[Sydebolle]

So I shall be carrying a 50ml bottle of alcohol and paper hankies then to wipe the little sensor plate BEFORE I put my finger(s) there.

I've seen Chinese tourists, where poking their nose could be interpreted as drilling for oil ..........

[Burma Bill]

12 minutes ago, Sydebolle said:

So I shall be carrying a 50ml bottle of alcohol and paper hankies then to wipe the little sensor plate BEFORE I put my finger(s) there.

I've seen Chinese tourists, where poking their nose could be interpreted as drilling for oil ..........

Far more "handy" are antiseptic wipes.

[mstevens]

23 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

So, if someone committed an offence in Thailand 10 years ago (for example, working without a work permit), and was fingerprinted at the time by the Thai police and subsequently deported, would that show up from the fingerprint check carried out at the airport?

 

One imagines there will be clarity on this issue soon enough. I say that because a surprisingly high number of foreigners have been arrested, charged, fingerprinted and through the justice system in Thailand - and no doubt many of these people still come and go frequently enough. I am sure before too long anyone who has had problems with the law in Thailand in the past will come along and post about what happened at Immigration - that is if they happened to be stopped at Passport Control due to their fingerprints being linked to their Thai criminal record. My feeling is that even if there is a match in the system, unless the crime was serious (and the person was deported and blacklisted) or there are ongoing issues i.e. an arrest warrant out for that person, then it won't be a problem.

[DJ54]

Many countries take fingerprints when entering country.  US ,China, Germany many more. Nothing to worry about.  

 

Read an atticle yesterday I’m US news. 80 year old was arrested for

Murder 40 years prior using DNA from form he filled the envelope he licked to seal. An gave back to investigators unknown to him were police. 

 

His brothers were checked without know. One from a straw

he used drinking a soda forgot what the checked on other 

brother neither tested positive

[007 RED]

On ‎6‎/‎2‎/‎2019 at 8:39 AM, wgdanson said:

........  I do not think they can get any optical or facial details from the photo on my passport as the resolution is not good enough.

FYI…. The chip which embedded in your passport contains a higher resolution copy of the photo that is displayed on the photo page.  It has also been cropped so that only your face is displayed - no shoulders or 'white space' above your head.  It is the image on the chip that is used by the facial recognition system.

[007 RED]

On ‎6‎/‎2‎/‎2019 at 10:48 AM, KhunBENQ said:

Many countries have introduced mandatory biometric passports.

For those fingerprinting is done and saved on the chip that is embedded in

the passport.

So quite certain this check against the passport is included.

FYI…. Over 130 countries currently issue the so called ‘biometric’ passport.  The first ‘biometric’ passports were introduced by Malaysia in 1998.

 

Although it is referred to as a ‘biometric’ passport the chip that is embedded within the passport has not up until June 2018 contained any biometric information.  The only information that is/was held on the chip is biographical and identical to the information which is displayed on the photo page of the passport (including the photo of the holder).

 

The chip is what is known as contactless (also referred to as machine readable) and when the IO places the passport onto his/her scanner, the scanner reads the information held at the bottom of the page between <<<< >>>>.  This information is used to unlock the first level encryption code of the chip.  The biographic information held on the chip is then displayed on the IO’s screen.

 

In June 2018 the International Civil Aviation Organisation (ICAO), which is part of the United Nations, and responsible for setting the standards of passports and other machine readable documents issued an amendment to the 7th Edition 2015 of Doc 9303 to allow passport issuing authorities to include finger prints and iris scans to be placed within the chip that is embedded within the passport.  The new information is held at a higher encryption level on the chip and is only available with additional security clearance.

 

It must be stressed that the inclusion of fingerprints or iris scan information onto the chip which is embedded within the passport is not mandatory.  The decision to include this additional information is at the discretion of the individual passport issuing authority.

[xtrnuno41]

Good , you can spread all kinds of diseases faster. Everyone touches the plate or will they have a disinfection bath for the fingers? Yha ok, you touch more when you are moving around, but it is a source again.

Guess if they make those prints, they can sell their database. Fingerprint in combination with passport. In other countries they dont do, not even EU, USA, but in Thailand they do?! Is Thailand a country to gather that info and sell?!

Is this not in conflict with Geneva human rights? 

How fast the check will go, just single finger print out of billions? If they check  it also with criminal records or any other database.

All so old fashioned, why not have all people in the world have a body implanted chip, forget about human rights and privacy, then everybody is tagged.

More and more total control. 

[RJRS1301]

26 minutes ago, 007 RED said:

FYI…. Over 130 countries currently issue the so called ‘biometric’ passport.  The first ‘biometric’ passports were introduced by Malaysia in 1998.

 

Although it is referred to as a ‘biometric’ passport the chip that is embedded within the passport has not up until June 2018 contained any biometric information.  The only information that is/was held on the chip is biographical and identical to the information which is displayed on the photo page of the passport (including the photo of the holder).

 

The chip is what is known as contactless (also referred to as machine readable) and when the IO places the passport onto his/her scanner, the scanner reads the information held at the bottom of the page between <<<< >>>>.  This information is used to unlock the first level encryption code of the chip.  The biographic information held on the chip is then displayed on the IO’s screen.

 

In June 2018 the International Civil Aviation Organisation (ICAO), which is part of the United Nations, and responsible for setting the standards of passports and other machine readable documents issued an amendment to the 7th Edition 2015 of Doc 9303 to allow passport issuing authorities to include finger prints and iris scans to be placed within the chip that is embedded within the passport.  The new information is held at a higher encryption level on the chip and is only available with additional security clearance.

 

It must be stressed that the inclusion of fingerprints or iris scan information onto the chip which is embedded within the passport is not mandatory.  The decision to include this additional information is at the discretion of the individual passport issuing authority.

Really informative post, thanks

[wgdanson]

43 minutes ago, 007 RED said:

FYI…. The chip which embedded in your passport contains a higher resolution copy of the photo that is displayed on the photo page.  It has also been cropped so that only your face is displayed - no shoulders or 'white space' above your head.  It is the image on the chip that is used by the facial recognition system.

It is not possible to increase the resolution of a photo.

My pupillary distance is 68mm, measured at the opticians. On the photo I use on my passport it is 9.2 mm.

No way can that be accurately measured when it is seven times bigger. A millimeter on the photo would make a big difference.

But I am sure someone will explain to me.

[OzMan]

I have two passports and a Green Card for the US attached to one of the passports. Every time I go through LAX I get fingerprinted, photographed, my date and place of birth is the same, where I live is the same as well as my occupation. The system is so smart it has not yet figured out I travel using two passports.