Trump tells Democratic congresswomen to 'go back' to 'fix' countries they came from

[lannarebirth]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Each country that has some kind of universal does it differently. The obvious point is most of the nations that do have such programs and as that that is basically ALL advanced nations other than sadly backwards USA are not even close to being "socialist" nations. They have SOCIAL PROGRAMS going within their systems. In the U.S. we have the same for programs like social security, Medicaid, and Medicare.

 

And the interstate highway system and the US armed forces, and the agencies that created standards for food and pollution and medicine, and, and, and....

[heybruce]

2 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Each country that has some kind of universal does it differently. The obvious point is most of the nations that do have such programs and as that that is basically ALL advanced nations other than sadly backwards USA are not even close to being "socialist" nations. They have SOCIAL PROGRAMS going within their systems. In the U.S. we have the same for programs like social security, Medicaid, and Medicare.

Also worth noting is that these country's provide quality healthcare to 100% of their citizens for significantly less money.  If the US could get its healthcare costs down to what other rich countries pay it would save our economy hundreds of billions a year. 

 

I'm a numbers person, that's why I favor universal healthcare.

 

29 minutes ago, lannarebirth said:

 

And the interstate highway system and the US armed forces, and the agencies that created standards for food and pollution and medicine, and, and, and....

Public education, the FAA, courts and prisons, waste collection in most cities and counties, etc.

 

There are many essential functions in a modern economy that are performed best by the government.  Other functions should be left to the free market (with intelligent regulation).  Recognizing this fact does not make a person a socialist.

[heybruce]

3 hours ago, mogandave said:

 

Yes, I think it’s clear the left will do all it can to eliminate the electoral college to help facilitate the shift to socialism.

All in the interest of fairness don’t ‘cha know.

 

"Yes, I think it’s clear the left will do all it can to eliminate the electoral college to help facilitate the shift to socialism democracy."

 

I fixed if for you.

[mogandave]

Slaves weren't allowed to vote.  Counting slaves as three-fifths of a person increased the allotment of Representatives and members of the electoral college for slave states.  All this increased political power went to the white male voters of these states.  This power was not used to represent the interests of the slaves.
 
Didn't you know this?

And had they been counted as a full person it would have given the white male owners even more political power, yes?

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, mogandave said:

 

And had they been counted as a full person it would have given the white male owners even more political power, yes?

That's why it was called a compromise.  A racist, crime against humanity compromise.

[EVENKEEL]

7 hours ago, heybruce said:

Also worth noting is that these country's provide quality healthcare to 100% of their citizens for significantly less money.  If the US could get its healthcare costs down to what other rich countries pay it would save our economy hundreds of billions a year. 

 

I'm a numbers person, that's why I favor universal healthcare.

 

Public education, the FAA, courts and prisons, waste collection in most cities and counties, etc.

 

There are many essential functions in a modern economy that are performed best by the government.  Other functions should be left to the free market (with intelligent regulation).  Recognizing this fact does not make a person a socialist.

It does make you naïve if you believe the gov is a good solution over a free market. 

[bristolboy]

1 hour ago, mogandave said:

 

And had they been counted as a full person it would have given the white male owners even more political power, yes?

 

As I pointed out to you already when you thought that making the slaves only 3/5 of a person proved the opposite. And I also pointed out to that the 3/5 was a compromise. That those states with lots of slaves would have loved it for a slave to count as a full person. While those with few didn't want them to count at all.

So what's your point?

[lannarebirth]

1 hour ago, EVENKEEL said:

It does make you naïve if you believe the gov is a good solution over a free market. 

 

Well, for the most part it has been until now. In my particular jurisdiction there are about $45,000 of government costs to build your own house on your own land. Does that stick in my craw? Why yes it does.

 

OTOH, housing prices go up about 7% a year because of these stringent measures because supply is curtailed. On the other other hand, young people can't afford to buy houses to start families because pricing is just too extreme due to limited available stock of houses. It is very easy for me to see both sides of the argument but more and more I think I'm the only one who does. People tend to see what they want to see.

[mogandave]

That's why it was called a compromise.  A racist, crime against humanity compromise.

I’ll take that as a yes.

[metisdead]

Off topic posts and replies bickering about the electoral college and healthcare have been removed. 

[heybruce]

3 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

It does make you naïve if you believe the gov is a good solution over a free market. 

So you think the free market will provide roads, courts, education, defense, etc?

 

Other governments do provide better healthcare at far less money than the screwy system we have in the US.  Do some research, you'd be amazed what the conservative talking heads (fake news) aren't telling you.

[EVENKEEL]

21 minutes ago, heybruce said:

So you think the free market will provide roads, courts, education, defense, etc?

 

Other governments do provide better healthcare at far less money than the screwy system we have in the US.  Do some research, you'd be amazed what the conservative talking heads (fake news) aren't telling you.

You want gov run health care...fine, but don't force it on me saying it's for your own good. Don't come looking for me to fund it either. 

[johnnybangkok]

7 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

You want gov run health care...fine, but don't force it on me saying it's for your own good. Don't come looking for me to fund it either. 

I think we all get that you're not the giving type.

[heybruce]

16 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

You want gov run health care...fine, but don't force it on me saying it's for your own good. Don't come looking for me to fund it either. 

I see, you want to opt out of the government programs you don't want to use.  I want to opt out of agricultural subsidies, I have friends who want to opt out of defense spending. I'm sure the vast majority of Americans want to opt out of paying for Trump's Mar-a-Lago trips.

 

Do you think government will work if everyone only pays for the parts they think they'll use?

 

BTW:  I already have government provided healthcare, I'm retired military.  As I explained in an already deleted post, the numbers show that government provided healthcare is far cheaper and better than what the US has.  That's why I support it.

Edited July 19, 2019 by heybruce

[EVENKEEL]

4 minutes ago, heybruce said:

I see, you want to opt out of the government programs you don't want to use.  I want to opt out of agricultural subsidies, I have friends who want to opt out of defense spending. I'm sure the vast majority of Americans want to opt out of paying for Trump's Mar-a-Lago trips.

 

Do you think government will work if everyone only pays for the parts they think they'll use?

And how many posters on here do you think make enough money to where it will be a burden to help pay for all this. That's right, it's not going to make a difference to the retiree living off his SS. Or the 19 yr old college student. It's the guy struggling to make a better life for his family. Sorry sir, but you have to wait in the same waiting room as all the rest. Are we going to build special hospitals for all this? Oh and you tell the doctors they will now be on salary set by the government.

 

Sounds so nice to chant free health care for all, now implementing it is another story.

[heybruce]

6 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

And how many posters on here do you think make enough money to where it will be a burden to help pay for all this. That's right, it's not going to make a difference to the retiree living off his SS. Or the 19 yr old college student. It's the guy struggling to make a better life for his family. Sorry sir, but you have to wait in the same waiting room as all the rest. Are we going to build special hospitals for all this? Oh and you tell the doctors they will now be on salary set by the government.

 

Sounds so nice to chant free health care for all, now implementing it is another story.

And yet it has been implemented, with better results and far lower costs, in every developed nation except the US.

 

Do you think that we are simply to dumb and incompetent to do what the rest of the first world has already done?

 

Do some research.  The savings in healthcare costs will be much greater than the tax increases to pay for universal healthcare if we simply achieve what all these other countries have done.

Edited July 19, 2019 by heybruce

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, heybruce said:

And yet it has been implemented, with better results and far lower costs, in every developed nation except the US.

 

Do you think that we are simply to dumb and incompetent to do what the rest of the first world has already done?

Exactly. 

On basic issues like health care access for all and not locking up a tragically high percentage of the population, America is sadly not American but American't. 

Edited July 19, 2019 by Jingthing

[EVENKEEL]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Exactly. 

On basic issues like health care access for all and not locking up a tragically high percentage of the population, America is sadly not American but American't. 

Johnny Depp said it better,

[lannarebirth]

12 minutes ago, heybruce said:

 

 

Do you think that we are simply to dumb and incompetent to do what the rest of the first world has already done?

 

 

I think we're too selfish and too mean. Brotherly love does not abound in the US of A.

[EVENKEEL]

9 minutes ago, lannarebirth said:

 

I think we're too selfish and too mean. Brotherly love does not abound in the US of A.

I ooze brotherly love, just keep your hands out of my wallet.

[mogandave]

I thought healthcare was off-topic

[bristolboy]

2 minutes ago, mogandave said:

I thought healthcare was off-topic

To judge from your obsessive posting on the subject here, that though must have just occurred to you.

[mogandave]

To judge from your obsessive posting on the subject here, that though must have just occurred to you.

Are you stalking me?

[bristolboy]

1 minute ago, mogandave said:

 

Are you stalking me?

 

If you think you have a case, which you don't, you should tell the mods. I should point out that you were the one badgering me for an answer to a question of yours. So I would probably have a better case than you if I cared to make it. Which I don't.

[mogandave]

And yet it has been implemented, with better results and far lower costs, in every developed nation except the US.

Again, it is an opinion that results are better in other countries, not a fact.

Just because less is spent in other countries with socialized healthcare, it does not necessarily follow that socialized healthcare in the US will cost less. But you being a “numbers” guy already knew that.

Free stuff for the poor, punish the rich, same old same old.

[mogandave]

Exactly. 
On basic issues like health care access for all and not locking up a tragically high percentage of the population, America is sadly not American but American't. 

What should be done with people breaking the law?

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, mogandave said:

 

What should be done with people breaking the law?

 

Don't lock up everybody especially young people for non-violent crimes. More resources on rehabilitation. 

[mogandave]

Don't lock up everybody especially young people for non-violent crimes. More resources on rehabilitation. 

Non-violent like drunk-driving, selling drugs or white-collar crimes?

I would be real interested to see the numbers on how many people are incarcerated in the US for non-violent crimes that were not plead down from something more serious, or that did not have a long list of priors.

One could argue that if more attention was paid to prosecuting lower level crimes with rehabilitation programs, the number of lifetime criminals would be greatly reduced.

Every time I went to jail, everyone was in fo the same thing...

[Jingthing]

4 minutes ago, mogandave said:

 

Non-violent like drunk-driving, selling drugs or white-collar crimes?

I would be real interested to see the numbers on how many people are incarcerated in the US for non-violent crimes that were not plead down from something more serious, or that did not have a long list of priors.

One could argue that if more attention was paid to prosecuting lower level crimes with rehabilitation programs, the number of lifetime criminals would be greatly reduced.

Every time I went to jail, everyone was in fo the same thing...

 

I would say focus on youth and don't throw away so many mostly minority youth lives when they have just barely started. If all or almost all other countries can avoid such absurdly high incarceration rates, don't you realize that reflects on the U.S. system being totally broken? The U.S. system is like you would expect in a massively repressive police state. Not a good look!

[mogandave]

I would say focus on youth and don't throw away so many mostly minority youth lives when they have just barely started. If all or almost all other countries can avoid such absurdly high incarceration rates, don't you realize that reflects on the U.S. system being totally broken? The U.S. system is like you would expect in a massively repressive police state. Not a good look!

Yeah, that sounds great, but it does not sound like anything new.

Massively repressive police state indeed.