Thai tourism in trouble: And competitor Vietnam is "scary" for Pattaya

[Max69xl]

4 minutes ago, Leaver said:

So the change is, it's being enforce, where in the past, it wasn't.   So that's a change.  Right?

The law has been enforced depending on province and Immigration office. It's just annoying, nothing more. A law is still a law. Nothing to get a heart attack from. If wine tax and TM30 reporting are your biggest problems, then you have no real "problems". Change province and start to drink Sang Som instead. Problem solved!

[Leaver]

11 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

Then change to another bottle of wine,and stop whining. ????

Ahhhh, so change forces a change, yet nothing has changed here.  ????. 

[Leaver]

17 minutes ago, ThePioneer said:

 

No it is no change, but you conveniently failed to comply with the law in the past.

Your pose an interesting argument.

 

What about "tea money?" 

 

It's a corrupt payment to police, which has never been investigated and enforced.  Indeed, for serious crimes committed by police, all that happens is they are transferred to an inactive post.  No charges, no jail time.

 

Is in Thai law somewhere that one has to pay "tea money?"

 

Thailand "conveniently" enforces what it wants, when it wants, against who it want to, and it's usually foreigners. 

 

The TM30 fiasco is just a cash grab.

Edited August 27, 2019 by Leaver

[Max69xl]

32 minutes ago, Leaver said:

Should Vietnam implement any new controls, or stricter rules, it will still be a lot more visa friendly and affordable than Thailand. 

 

It's those remaining in Thailand that will need the good luck, as things will only get harder here.  ????

My last 1 year extension in May took exactly 3 min to do + 1 min waiting,

the new so called 90 days check (money in the bank book) took maybe 20 seconds (I didn't even had to sit down) and I did the 90 days report at the same time. I was out of the office after maybe 6 minutes. I'm staying 5 min from Immigration and I have my bank 75 meters from Immigration.

So tell me: In what way was this hard? I don't expect it to be harder next year. 

[Matzzon]

22 minutes ago, Leaver said:

Sure.  That's what internet forums are all about.

 

Have you been to Vietnam?  If so, where, and how long did you stay?

I have been there a couple of times. Not really staying in only one place, but travel around during my visits.

On my first trip I only went to Ho Chi Minh, stayed in the district they still call Saigon and also went upp north to Hanoi before exiting to Thailand again.

The other trip I made was togheter with friends and chartered a driver for 14 days to take us from Ho Chi Minh out to the costline and follow that one up to the most high north eastern point. Stopped in many middle and small beach cities of counre, hence 14 days.

After that it has been a 1 month trip and a few 14 days visits.

[Leaver]

14 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

The law has been enforced depending on province and Immigration office. It's just annoying, nothing more. A law is still a law. Nothing to get a heart attack from. If wine tax and TM30 reporting are your biggest problems, then you have no real "problems". Change province and start to drink Sang Som instead. Problem solved!

Umm, I'm actually looking at changing countries, not provinces and alcoholic beverages, if you couldn't tell.

 

Really seeing no need to be treated so poorly here, whilst paying top dollar for the privilege. 

 

I have no assets or emotional ties here, so could leave tomorrow.

 

Queue all the "don't let the door hit you on the way out" posts.  ????

[BritManToo]

Back to Vietnam ........

Tickets to Hanoi are very cheap at the moment, just booked flights in October from Chiang Mai for 2,900bht return (Airasia via Trip.com). Room in the Old City 400bht/night inc breakfast.

Edited August 27, 2019 by BritManToo

[Leaver]

4 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

My last 1 year extension in May took exactly 3 min to do + 1 min waiting,

the new so called 90 days check (money in the bank book) took maybe 20 seconds (I didn't even had to sit down) and I did the 90 days report at the same time. I was out of the office after maybe 6 minutes. I'm staying 5 min from Immigration and I have my bank 75 meters from Immigration.

So tell me: In what way was this hard? I don't expect it to be harder next year. 

Do you think your experience is indicative of many? 

 

Check out the activity on the visa forum over the last 6 months. 

[Matzzon]

31 minutes ago, Leaver said:

Yes, seriously.  Do you think it's only the visa laws that make Thailand unfriendly to expats????

 

There is wine from my home country for sale here at eight times the price, and that's at retail. 

 

There's a difference between reasonable tariffs and import duty, and taking the p*ss. 

A person that think like that should not take the p*ss then. That person should just butt out and drink cheap wine at home. A person that do that will get two great advantages:

First they will have enough money to do what they want in life, as they appearently can´t afford to stay and do it in Thailand.

Second, they will save thenself from a misarable life full of constant complaining about how bad everything is.

Or why not just try Vietnam instead? Then they can complain about there miserable little pathetic lifes in that corner of the world instead.

[Leaver]

4 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

I have been there a couple of times. Not really staying in only one place, but travel around during my visits.

On my first trip I only went to Ho Chi Minh, stayed in the district they still call Saigon and also went upp north to Hanoi before exiting to Thailand again.

The other trip I made was togheter with friends and chartered a driver for 14 days to take us from Ho Chi Minh out to the costline and follow that one up to the most high north eastern point. Stopped in many middle and small beach cities of counre, hence 14 days.

After that it has been a 1 month trip and a few 14 days visits.

How long ago was your last visit?

 

Good to know you are speaking with some experience, and not just a Thai apologist who has never been anywhere else. 

 

So, in your opinion, what makes Thailand so much better than Vietnam?

[Matzzon]

44 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

I guess you're not living in BKK? 

Oooh, no I don´t. What is the problem? Does it take 2-3 hours more of your valuable time? Or maybe 4-5 hours! That must be terrible.

[Matzzon]

1 minute ago, Leaver said:

How long ago was your last visit?

 

Good to know you are speaking with some experience, and not just a Thai apologist who has never been anywhere else. 

 

So, in your opinion, what makes Thailand so much better than Vietnam?

I will continue this discussion with you by PM, if ok with you? Just have to go away from here for a while. Yes, It´s nice talking to people that also can have a descent conversation. ???? 

[Max69xl]

3 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

Oooh, no I don´t. What is the problem? Does it take 2-3 hours more of your valuable time? Or maybe 4-5 hours! That must be terrible.

They really enforce the TM30. But you said it was overblown. So don't post your own opinions when you don't have the facts. Something that could take 15-20 min, do take a long time at CW Immigration. There's even a new thread about it.

[Leaver]

22 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

A person that think like that should not take the p*ss then. That person should just butt out and drink cheap wine at home. A person that do that will get two great advantages:

First they will have enough money to do what they want in life, as they appearently can´t afford to stay and do it in Thailand.

Second, they will save thenself from a misarable life full of constant complaining about how bad everything is.

Or why not just try Vietnam instead? Then they can complain about there miserable little pathetic lifes in that corner of the world instead.

I'll take your post as a personal attack, but will reply anyway.

 

Firstly, I can afford to pay a bar girl 5000 baht for the hour, but that doesn't mean I would pay it.  The same with wine.  The tax on wine now is akin to propping up a regime.  Think Burma, under the junta.  ????

 

No need to go back to my home country when nearby countries are offering a better deal.  I'm seriously considering moving to Vietnam. 

 

Why do you think expats in Vietnam have a miserable life?  Many of them just laugh at the hoops expats have to jump through in Thailand, not to mention the cost of living.

 

There seems to be a misconception that only Thailand's visa "rejects" are moving, or those that can't afford to live in Thailand anymore.  I'm neither of these, but from recent visits to Vietnam, I'm finding it a more friendly place that "makes more sense" to me than Thailand does at the moment, if you can understand what I mean by that.

 

That doesn't mean I'm never coming back to Thailand.  It's so close I can "holiday" here many times a year, and if I do move, I intend to do so.  Basically, I can have the best of both worlds.

Edited August 27, 2019 by Leaver

[Leaver]

12 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

I will continue this discussion with you by PM, if ok with you? Just have to go away from here for a while. Yes, It´s nice talking to people that also can have a descent conversation. ???? 

No need for PM.  Open forum is fine with me.  I have nothing to hide. 

 

It's all on topic to the OP, where a Thai admits "Vietnam is scary for Pattaya." 

 

In fact, speaking to many expats, including business owners, they are frustrated at the moment, with many considering moving.

 

In the past, I have considered these idle threats, but not so now.  There's a real interest in nearby countries now. 

 

I spoke to a friend in Vietnam the other day.  He said he has met quiet a few guys from Thailand recently, scoping the place out.  I asked if they were the alcoholic types with no money, he said "no." 

[Matzzon]

1 hour ago, Leaver said:

No need for PM.  Open forum is fine with me.  I have nothing to hide. 

 

It's all on topic to the OP, where a Thai admits "Vietnam is scary for Pattaya." 

 

In fact, speaking to many expats, including business owners, they are frustrated at the moment, with many considering moving.

 

In the past, I have considered these idle threats, but not so now.  There's a real interest in nearby countries now. 

 

I spoke to a friend in Vietnam the other day.  He said he has met quiet a few guys from Thailand recently, scoping the place out.  I asked if they were the alcoholic types with no money, he said "no." 

Ok, unfortrunately you are having the wrong focus. That is the scenario of that maybe half of thailands non asian expats would consider living in Veitnam instead. Thailand can´t care less, due to that ain´t visible in the economics.

 

About tourism as a whole it´s clearly visible, but will really so many abandon Thailand for Vietnam? Yes, maybe. When everything is new and interesting they will, but when that hunger to see something new gets laid to rest, things will go back to normal. By then, Thailand has also been learning a lesson, and applied better and more fair rules because they want to get people back.

If you then look at the big picture. Ok, Thailand will suffer the consequences of tourism going down for a couple of years. Expats living here is not important. Many of us are just trying to make ourselfs more important than we really are. Anyway, after a couple of years it will go back, due to that Thailand is so far in front of everyone in the tourism sector.

As we all know, all stories has to come to an end too. Just take Las Palmas as a prime example. That place is nothing compared to what it was a couple of decades ago. Same faith has also hit Rodhes Island.

When that time comes, that will not reflect on the people still livng here and been waiting out the storm. We will still have our normal lifes, and we will probably also be considered a little bit more as a contributing value to the country.

[DrTuner]

3 hours ago, Max69xl said:

Finland is rated No 1 and I would never ever live there. Those are just numbers.

Indeed, I'm from there and it's a quasi socialist country with tax rates in the 40-50% bracket. The reason commies & co score in the "happiest" lists is because they are gray, standard, boring and dissent is in commie countries rewarded by a trip to a gulag. Ask the East Europeans how they liked the commies. It's a disease of the brain.

[brewsterbudgen]

3 hours ago, ThePioneer said:

 

TM30 has existed for many years if not decades, so it is no change.

 

Foreigners on this forum always think because a certain law is not strictly enforced, they don't need to comply with it, and when it is enforced in the future it is because they are not liked.

 

In every country of the world, when you enter a country it is your duty to know the laws of that country and comply with those laws, either if they are enforced or not.

 

 

True, but there has been a change in how the law is enforced.  It is, therefore, a change - a change in enforcement.

[Leaver]

1 hour ago, Matzzon said:

Ok, unfortrunately you are having the wrong focus.

You make some good points.  Some I agree with, and some I disagree with, but I can assure you, there is nothing wrong with what I am focusing on.

 

1 hour ago, Matzzon said:

That is the scenario of that maybe half of thailands non asian expats would consider living in Veitnam instead.

Never had I posted anywhere I predict 50% of expats to leave Thailand for Vietnam.  I challenge you to show me where I have.

 

1 hour ago, Matzzon said:

Thailand can´t care less, due to that ain´t visible in the economics.

I agree.  Thailand couldn't care less, so why should I care about Thailand? 

 

Whilst expats may not visable figure in Thai economy statistics, this is mainly because many hospitality establishments operate in the cash economy, so don't appear on the books. This is very common.

 

Also, things like, bird flu, swine flu, volcanic eruptions, sinking boats killing tourists, tsunamis, military coups etc do not scare off expats.  They remain a steady flow of revenue inside the Thai economy, and a constant source of employment. 

 

This source of employment does have a flow on effect through the Thai economy.

 

1 hour ago, Matzzon said:

About tourism as a whole it´s clearly visible, but will really so many abandon Thailand for Vietnam?

Are you focusing on the numbers of tourists, or the money the tourists spend?  If focusing on the number of tourist, numbers are up.  If focusing on the amount of spend, I would suggest the money is down, particularly per tourist. 

 

1 hour ago, Matzzon said:

When everything is new and interesting they will, but when that hunger to see something new gets laid to rest, things will go back to normal.

When do you think that will be?  I can't see western tourist coming back to Thailand, in the numbers they previously did, for a long time.  How many businesses go broke between now and then?

 

1 hour ago, Matzzon said:

By then, Thailand has also been learning a lesson, and applied better and more fair rules because they want to get people back.

Once you lose a customer (tourist or expat, or both) it's hard to lure them back.  I would suggest any change here will soon be too little, too late.  Thailand is fast approaching the point of no return for western tourism, thus, future expats.

 

1 hour ago, Matzzon said:

If you then look at the big picture. Ok, Thailand will suffer the consequences of tourism going down for a couple of years.

Thailand shouldn't have to suffer anything.  They had a huge market share of the tourism industry in the region, and they rested on their reputation, not investing in infrastructure, and took their tourists for granted, all the time making it harder for expats to remain, and the consequences are here now. 

 

1 hour ago, Matzzon said:

Expats living here is not important. Many of us are just trying to make ourselfs more important than we really are.

As said, expats are a constant stream of revenue and create employment, not to mention those that support extended Thai families.  I don't view myself as "important."  I view myself as a consumer and a customer of Thailand.  Make it hard for me to be here, and I will seek out alternatives, as many now are.

 

1 hour ago, Matzzon said:

Anyway, after a couple of years it will go back, due to that Thailand is so far in front of everyone in the tourism sector.

This is the typical TAT attitude.  We are so far ahead, so why care.  Well, guess what, there is real competition for the tourists with real money to spend coming from Vietnam.  Two years of destroying the tourism industry could take 10 years or more to recover from.  

1 hour ago, Matzzon said:

When that time comes, that will not reflect on the people still livng here and been waiting out the storm.

Will they still be here by then?  How many would have left?  Western tourism and expats are a contracting market.

 

1 hour ago, Matzzon said:

We will still have our normal lifes, and we will probably also be considered a little bit more as a contributing value to the country.

I can only see it getting harder here.  Perfect example is the cash grab with the TM30's.  I predict it will not be long before 800k / 400k goes to 1 million / 600k, and a junk insurance policy is needed, which will just be another cash grab. 

 

I wouldn't be holding my breath for Thai's to appreciate any foreigners here.  If they did, they would have already made things more welcoming, instead, they have gone the way. 

Edited August 27, 2019 by Leaver

[Matzzon]

17 minutes ago, Leaver said:

You make some good points.  Some I agree with, and some I disagree with, but I can assure you, there is nothing wrong with what I am focusing on.

You are entitled to your opinion, so your focus is clear in your mind. Probably in many others too, but another part will disagree.

 

17 minutes ago, Leaver said:

Never had I posted anywhere I predict 50% of expats to leave Thailand for Vietnam.  I challenge you to show me where I have.

Never stated that you said that, it was just an example made to show the non importance the expat community stands for in Thailand.

 

17 minutes ago, Leaver said:

I agree.  Thailand couldn't care less, so why should I care about Thailand?

Sure, If you are out of the opinion that the country must love you and apprecitate you and all other people that choose to live here or visit. Then you are right. If you view it from the side where a visitor in a country should adapt to the ways things work, then you are far out in the blue.

 

17 minutes ago, Leaver said:

Whilst expats may not visable figure in Thai economy statistics, this is mainly because many hospitality establishments operate in the cash economy, so don't appear on the books. This is very common.

Still the expats stands for such a small part of the whole tourism sector that uses hospitality establishments, that it´s still going to be a non important factor.

 

17 minutes ago, Leaver said:

Also, things like, bird flu, swine flu, volcanic eruptions, sinking boats killing tourists, tsunamis, military coups etc do not scare off expats.  They remain a steady flow of revenue inside the Thai economy, and a constant source of employment. 

 

This source of employment does have a flow on effect through the Thai economy.

That is just taking it to the outer limits. Like citing the reversed version of the chaos theory.

 

17 minutes ago, Leaver said:

Are you focusing on the numbers of tourists, or the money the tourists spend?  If focusing on the number of tourist, numbers are up.  If focusing on the amount of spend, I would suggest the money is down, particularly per tourist.

Both combined to deliver the right facts.

 

17 minutes ago, Leaver said:

When do you think that will be?  I can't see western tourist coming back to Thailand, in the numbers they previously did, for a long time.  How many businesses go broke between now and then?

 

Once you lose a customer (tourist or expat, or both) it's hard to lure them back.  I would suggest any change here will soon be too little, too late.  Thailand is fast approaching the point of no return for western tourism, thus, future expats.

Yes, of course it´s going to be hard. Not really a clue how long time. Maybe 5-10 years. Just estimating my own belief.
 

17 minutes ago, Leaver said:

Thailand shouldn't have to suffer anything.  They had a huge market share of the tourism industry in the region, and they rested on their reputation, not investing in infrastructure, and took their tourists for granted, all the time making it harder for expats to remain, and the consequences are here now. 

What I mean is that they will suffer the consequences of there own actions. That´s also called suffering. ???? 

 

17 minutes ago, Leaver said:

As said, expats are a constant stream of revenue and create employment, not to mention those that support extended Thai families.  I don't view myself as "important."  I view myself as a consumer and a customer of Thailand.  Make it hard for me to be here, and I will seek out alternatives, as many now are.

 

This is the typical TAT attitude.  We are so far ahead, so why care.  Well, guess what, there is real competition for the tourists with real money to spend coming from Vietnam.  Two years of destroying the tourism industry could take 10 years or more to recover from.  

Will they still be here by then?  How many would have left?  Western tourism and expats are a contracting market.

As already clearly stated. The expat community is of no importance.

 

17 minutes ago, Leaver said:

 

I can only see it getting harder here.  Perfect example is the cash grab with the TM30's.  I predict it will not be long before 800k / 400k goes to 1 million / 600k, and a junk insurance policy is needed, which will just be another cash grab. 

 

I wouldn't be holding my breath for Thai's to appreciate any foreigners here.  If they did, they would have already made things more welcoming, instead, they have gone the way. 

Then so be it. I consider that you would need to have a lot more than 800k to move to and settle in a foreign country.

I love it here. Never met with a bad word or an angry face. never have an problem with Immigration at either airport, landborder or at the local office. I just feel welcomed, and there are many more with me. Of course there are the ones, like I assume you, that no feel welcomed that are either going to move or stay and continue complain. As we ll know, the ones that complain are the ones we see, the hooligans on a good football match are the ones we see, he people crashing their cars are the ones we see.

 

Everything that is good we never hear much about. The ones that liked the football match nd went home happy after, the ones that actually can drive all their life without an accident, the ones that doesn´t have anything to complain about. The ones that still loves Thailand and feel welcomed as well as treated with respect by all from the common Thai to the Immigration Officer.

[Leaver]

1 minute ago, Matzzon said:

I love it here.

So do I, but that doesn't mean I have to put up with all of Thailand's <deleted>. 

 

Like I said, if / when I move, I will holiday regularly in Thailand.  Probably every 2 months I will come here.  If Thailand wants me to be a tourist, I'll be a tourist.  ????

 

 

4 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

Of course there are the ones, like I assume you, that no feel welcomed that are either going to move or stay and continue complain.

I have some time to decide. 

 

Can you tell me anything Thailand has done in recent time to make your stay here more easy, or for you to feel more welcomed? 

 

I'm not complaining, just think I might be able to have an easier lifestyle, with more freedom, in Vietnam. 

 

Vietnam is certainly appearing to be a better value for money holiday to many tourists these days. 

 

5 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

Everything that is good we never hear much about.

 

If everything is good here, why such the big change in the demographics of tourists, over such a short period of time?

 

Thailand has to be doing something wrong.  What do you think it is?

 

Now, we are looking at expats moving as well. 

 

Everyone loves a good football match.  Many may be watching their favorite team play in bars in Vietnam in the future.  ????

[Matzzon]

9 minutes ago, Leaver said:

Can you tell me anything Thailand has done in recent time to make your stay here more easy, or for you to feel more welcomed?

They haven´t made it more complicated for me either, so there is no need to make it better.

[Matzzon]

9 minutes ago, Leaver said:

Thailand has to be doing something wrong.  What do you think it is?

Not enforcing their written laws from start.

[Leaver]

1 minute ago, Matzzon said:

They haven´t made it more complicated for me either, so there is no need to make it better.

But it's more complicated than Vietnam.  ????

[Leaver]

1 minute ago, Matzzon said:

Not enforcing their written laws from start.

What has that got to do with the tourism industry? 

[Matzzon]

12 minutes ago, Leaver said:

What has that got to do with the tourism industry? 

Nothing of what we have been talking about has to do with the tourism industry in that case. If the wine price is too high? That is something an expat thinks about. Not a tourist that just comes for a visit. The only thing it has to do with tourism is all the people thta tries to live here on ED and Tourist visas. That´s where some rules and regulations has be made recently or just a better approach to the amount of possible visas that can be used and how your are considered to be a tourist in the country.

All regular tourists are still having fun in Thailand, but the time for abusing the visa system is luckily over. ???? 

[Matzzon]

18 minutes ago, Leaver said:

But it's more complicated than Vietnam.  ????

Yes it is. Welcome to the world of free choices. ???? 

 

You can choose to take the easy way or your can continue to do the little extra work for the things you love in life. ???? 

Edited August 27, 2019 by Matzzon

[Matzzon]

1 hour ago, Max69xl said:

"As already clearly stated. The expat community is of no importance."

You're so full of s**t. I don't know what kind of expats you know, but where I'm staying they spend same amount of money or even more every week as a tourist. You seem to think that every tourist spend a lot of money. They don't,but your are to ignorant to understand that. Expats spends money on this and that 24/7 every month,every year. The average tourist is here between 2 weeks and a month. Do the math.

You should think before you submit your replies. That's just a piece of advice.

Ok! Right, I am full of s**t. Actually like you write, so full of s**t. I should also think before i submit my replies, as an advice from you. That must mean that you are much more initiated and thoughtful then little me, that are so full of s**t. ???? 

Then you will surely understand the equation below, just because you put yourself so high up as a so not full of s**t person that know a lot, right?

Read and learn. It´s easy for you instead of believing infairytales your other expat freinds are telling you.

Here we have to calculate on the expat community you and me are talking about. The non-asian expat community. In that case, there are roughly about 150 000 expats in Thailand. When we count with the tourism, on the other hand, we have to count with the total amount of tourism in Thailand which is almost 40 million visitors per year. The way of counting because the tourism as a whole is depending on all from accidents, economy and disasters as well as all other factors the expat community depends on. I mean, it´s crazy to think that the chinese expat or the idian expat communities will be affected.

Here we have a fairly descent calculation:

40 million tourists per year generally spending an estimated, very low counting, 35 00 baht per day and a genereal visit lasts for 10 days. That´s only 35 000 baht per person, but a wopping 1 400 000 000 000 (easy: 1,4 trillion baht).

 

Now we take your beloved expat community:

We have 150 000 of the expats you are talking about, that are so unhappy but still spending their hard earned money, that in general are spending 50 000 baht per month. That would be a total of 7,5 billion baht.

So that makes it quite clear that what you value so high, approx. stands for 5,4 promille of the total hard fact we are discussing.

I hope that little mathematic lesson was useful for you. My question is: Who is so full of s**t now? ????
(Just maybe the guy behind this battery powered keyboard just wasn´t as ignorant as you choosed to think)

Edited August 27, 2019 by Matzzon

[Leaver]

29 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

Ok! Right, I am full of s**t. Actually like you write, so full of s**t. I should also think before i submit my replies, as an advice from you. That must mean that you are much more initiated and thoughtful then little me, that are so full of s**t. ???? 

Then you will surely understand the equation below, just because you put yourself so high up as a so not full of s**t person that know a lot, right?

Read and learn. It´s easy for you instead of believing infairytales your other expat freinds are telling you.

Here we have to calculate on the expat community you and me are talking about. The non-asian expat community. In that case, there are roughly about 150 000 expats in Thailand. When we count with the tourism, on the other hand, we have to count with the total amount of tourism in Thailand which is almost 40 million visitors per year. The way of counting because the tourism as a whole is depending on all from accidents, economy and disasters as well as all other factors the expat community depends on. I mean, it´s crazy to think that the chinese expat or the idian expat communities will be affected.

Here we have a fairly descent calculation:

40 million tourists per year generally spending an estimated, very low counting, 35 00 baht per day and a genereal visit lasts for 10 days. That´s only 35 000 baht per person, but a wopping 1 400 000 000 000 (easy: 1,4 trillion baht).

 

Now we take your beloved expat community:

We have 150 000 of the expats you are talking about, that are so unhappy but still spending their hard earned money, that in general are spending 50 000 baht per month. That would be a total of 7,5 billion baht.

So that makes it quite clear that what you value so high, approx. stands for 5,4 promille of the total hard fact we are discussing.

I hope that little mathematic lesson was useful for you. My question is: Who is so full of s**t now? ????
(Just maybe the guy behind this battery powered keyboard just wasn´t as ignorant as you choosed to think)

 

Your little maths lesson does not take into account that many expats buy property here, where tourists do not.  So that's an impact on the property market, particularly in the tourist areas.

 

Many expats here buy a vehicle, particularly cars, where tourists do not.  So that's an impact on Thailand's vehicle manufacturing industry.

 

Many expats get into a relationship with a Thai national, supporting their extended families, where tourists do not.  So that's their wealth being spread among other Thai's.

 

Many expats buy or start a business here, where tourists do not.  So that's an impact on employment and taxation revenue, albeit, small.  

 

I agree with you Thailand does not care about western expats, but what's wrong with promoting Thailand as retirement destination for expats?  Something like the Malaysian model.  

 

http://www.mm2h.gov.my/index.php/en/

 

Expats buy TV's, beds, white goods etc, on top of food, gas, electric etc.  Then spend on activities like golf, and domestic travel. 

 

Other neartby countries are enticing this demographic, rather then rejecting them, or making it difficult for them.

 

They cause no trouble, bring in foreign currency, do not work here, and pay their bills. 

[Leaver]

3 hours ago, Matzzon said:

so your focus is clear in your mind.

Focus can change, due to circumstances.  An example would be, many here have been using the 800k in the bank method.  When they changed the seasoning rules, many "focused" on them.  Right?

 

Many here needed that 400k to live on, but now they can't access.

 

3 hours ago, Matzzon said:

it was just an example made to show the non importance the expat community

I touched on this in another post.

 

I agree, expats are not important, but expats are large consumers.  That's property, vehicles, furniture, household items like electronics, leisure activities etc.  Tourists do not contribute to the Thai economy through this type of consumption.

 

3 hours ago, Matzzon said:

Sure, If you are out of the opinion that the country must love you and apprecitate you and all other people that choose to live here or visit. Then you are right.

Let me be clear on this.  I don't need to feel needed by Thailand.  I don't need to feel loved by Thailand.

 

If Thailand is making things difficult for me, and Vietnam is making things easy for me, I go.  It's that simple.  I don't need to put up with Thailand's BS. 

 

I am not in Thailand out of charity. 

 

3 hours ago, Matzzon said:

Still the expats stands for such a small part of the whole tourism sector

Expats are not tourists.  Once again, expats consume things tourists never would. For example, property, cars, TV's, fridges etc. 

 

3 hours ago, Matzzon said:

That is just taking it to the outer limits.

No.  It's not.  Expats remain in Thailand, permanently.  They consume everyday.  Tourism markets can fluctuate. 

 

One example is, the Chinese government will soon devalue the yuan, if they haven't already.  The amount of devaluation remains to be seen, but for sure it will impact on Chinese tourists. 

 

We are seeing it in western currencies.

 

However, the expats remain here constantly consuming.

 

3 hours ago, Matzzon said:

Yes, of course it´s going to be hard. Not really a clue how long time. Maybe 5-10 years.

So why inflict this hardship?  What purpose does it serve?  Most of the hardship will be felt by lower paid Thai's. 

 

The tourist and expats will just holiday and live elsewhere.

 

3 hours ago, Matzzon said:

What I mean is that they will suffer the consequences of there own actions.

Don't you mean, Thai's in the tourism industry will suffer the actions of the wealthy Thai elite? 

 

3 hours ago, Matzzon said:

As already clearly stated. The expat community is of no importance.

I agree, but would you concede that expats do buy high value items that tourists do not? 

 

 

Edited August 27, 2019 by Leaver