UK PM Johnson tells EU: ditch backstop or face no-deal Brexit

[Nigel Garvie]

29 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Didn't know brexit has been effectuated already.

No it hasn't, but I understand that great plans have been put in place to help bring it on. As Boris said F##k business, so I guess we will have to get rid of ours before the 31st.

[vogie]

36 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Didn't know brexit has been effectuated already.

Work in progress.

[puipuitom]

22 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

 

1) For the EU, the worst outcome is not a no-deal Brexit. It’s putting the single market at risk. 

 

2) For the UK, a no-deal Brexit is the worst outcome. That’s why parliament will prevent it at all cost. 

 

3) A no-deal Brexit is more worse for the UK than for the EU as well. 

 

Thus, there will be no no-deal Brexit. It’s not rocket science to see that. 

You forget a 35-45 % of irrational British voters.

Edited July 28, 2019 by puipuitom

[Pumpuynarak]

The EU are shitting themselves at the thought of the UK LEAVING, all them tinpot member countries who contribute FA, can you just imagine their future without the UK contribution, no money=no honey lol

[puipuitom]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

I learned imperial measurement at school, I still use imperial when doing my DIY. I know what 2 inches is, but in metric it could be 50 mill for I know.????

I am happy NL is member of the EU, and seen the total defeat of the PVV - from 4 to ZERO seats in EU parliament - not so much for me, but for my (great-grand)children.

In the meantime I enjoy open borders, able to work everywhere in the EU, pay with the same currency, reply on a LOT of EU consumer + company laws, and as company: zero problems/custom time at every EU border, and reliability of every EU food factory under EU scrutiny. 1 Nov and no deal Brexit: FSA documents have no validity anymore inside the EU, so… British foods.. I as importer have to do the same "circus" as for foods from Vietnam, Belize, Congo etc.

[stevenl]

17 minutes ago, vogie said:

Work in progress.

Yes, and it may happen.

But the post I reacted to said the negative economic scenarios after brexit are clearly not correct since they don't show yet. With brexit not effectuated that is quite logical.

[citybiker]

It was the British who wanted the backstop in the first place.
Plonker Boris don't seem to understand this.
If he and his muppets had voted for the deal months ago UK would be out by now.

Not strictly true.

Talking to friends, family & business contacts.....May betrayed DUP with backstop thus the WA being rightly overwhelmingly being rejected.

The deal was not a clean EU break, it was a classed as a surrender document, Brussels drafted to obviously benefit the EU and penalise and DETER others from following the UK (which was highly unlikely anyway).




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[vogie]

9 minutes ago, puipuitom said:

a) For instance: white chocolate:  https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/dds2/taric/measures.jsp?Lang=en&SimDate=20190728&Area=AR&MeasType=&StartPub=&EndPub=&MeasText=&GoodsText=&op=&Taric=1704903000&search_text=goods&textSearch=&LangDescr=en&OrderNum=&Regulation=&measStartDat=&measEndDat=

Third country duty (01-07-2000 - ): 9.10 % + 45.10 EUR / 100 kg MAX 18.90 % + 16.50 EUR / 100 kg

 

Non preferential tariff quota (01-07-2019 - 30-06-2020) : 35.00 % So, tariff quota full = bye-bye UK chocolate into the EU.

private cars: https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/dds2/taric/measures.jsp?Lang=en&SimDate=20190728&Area=AR&MeasType=&StartPub=&EndPub=&MeasText=&GoodsText=&op=&Taric=8703221000&search_text=goods&textSearch=&LangDescr=en&OrderNum=&Regulation=&measStartDat=&measEndDat=

Third country duty (15-09-1994 - ) :  10.00 %

lories, diesel:  https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/dds2/taric/measures.jsp?Lang=en&SimDate=20190728&Area=AR&MeasType=&StartPub=&EndPub=&MeasText=&GoodsText=&op=&Taric=8704213100&search_text=goods&textSearch=&LangDescr=en&OrderNum=&Regulation=&measStartDat=&measEndDat=

Third country duty (15-09-1994 - ) :  22.00 %

= bye-bye UK lorries.

 

b) the sooner the UK leaves, the earlier the British ( and the rest of Europe) will see the consequences. When the predicted bad situation occurs, the discussions are for a long time over. ( also for Catalonia, also Lega North + warning for the Visograd group)

As Charles de Gaulle already said in 1963: "The British are islanders, and will NEVER feel united with continental EU". see  https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jan/25/french-france-block-britain-entry-common-market-de-gaulle-1963 and https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-42165383  They get what they want, even from the other islanders like Scots and Irish (what the English did for over a millennium till today by completely ignoring the interests of these parts of the UK). 

c) Look to all problems especially the UK industry will have when they lose the export to the EU, but have no real alternative for a lot the UK imports from the EU.

Seen also the many trade agreements the EU have, quite difficult for a small country like the EUK with only 67 mln consumers to get a better deal as the EU with then 450 mln consumers, who also might react if the UK gets a better deal

 

d) The UK still could have a very interesting contribution to a further development of this union of nations. Who in the UK wants to go back to the times of Mercia, Wessex, Sussex, Kent, Northumbria, East Anglia ?

Apart from doctoring my original post which is againgst forum rules, why in gods earth would I want to read a link about "white chocolate" I just hope that posting this back to back nonsense makes you feel better.

I think what you fail to grasp is that the UK is still an independant country, and has not yet been absorbed into the mighty countries like Germany and France like the Benelux countries. We prefer a little elbow room thank you very much and not being dictated to like failing to stand for your national anthem 'Ode to Joy'.

Why oh why can you not accept this, "bye bye UK lorries" is just another attempt at you trying to bait us. What pleasure does it give you, you cannot go through life hating people that has a different outlook to life than yourself, you might end up bitter and twisted, better to get on with your life and let let others get on with theirs.

 

 

[Loiner]

Loiner wouldn't pass the JRM grammar test - but then he probably went to a 'poor school' rather than Eton.  These guys that are taking on the elites for the benefit of the British working class.  Jolly good of them to help out those less fortunate than themselves. 
 

I probably couldn’t pass a driving test but, like my grammar sometimes, that’s due to just one of my many bad habits and predictive text.

We less fortunates sometimes rely on a few of the toffs to do the right thing for us. I think Jacob is one of those chaps. The secondary modern wallahs proved to be useless at that. It’s horses for courses.

If you think the LAB party works for the benefit of the working class then you are sorely mistaken. Their MPs are riddled with the same privileged Oxbridge oiks who care naught for us.

[cleopatra2]

40 minutes ago, citybiker said:

 

Not strictly true.

Talking to friends, family & business contacts.....May betrayed DUP with backstop thus the WA being rightly overwhelmingly being rejected.

The deal was not a clean EU break, it was a classed as a surrender document, Brussels drafted to obviously benefit the EU and penalise and DETER others from following the UK (which was highly unlikely anyway).




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It was in the joint report from phase 1

And given UK legal domestic footing via the EU Withdrawal Act ( section 10)

[Lancelot01]

13 hours ago, geoffbezoz said:

All hypothetical as there has not been a vote in parliament yet to determine how many, if any, would vote for Boris.  That is unless there has been a parliamentary fantasy vote in your eyes, fantasy being the operative word I think.  From other commentary on BBC and Sky over the last few days there appears to be an opinion amongst respected political reporters that in fact should there be a vote on these issues Boris will have less votes than what TM had due to his increasing unpopularity.

BBC / Sky News, what would you expect? Say no more. 

[david555]

1 hour ago, Pumpuynarak said:

The EU are shitting themselves at the thought of the UK LEAVING, all them tinpot member countries who contribute FA, can you just imagine their future without the UK contribution, no money=no honey lol

Sunday 28 July 2019 13:50, UK 
https://news.sky.com/story/boris-bounce-conservatives-boosted-after-electing-boris-johnson-as-leader-polls-suggest-11772028

 

Government 'assuming' no deal - as Philip Hammond 'holds secret talks' 
A series of polls suggest the Tories have benefited from a "Boris bounce" since the new PM took office. 

The government is "working on the assumption" the UK will leave the EU without a deal, Cabinet Office minister Michael Gove has revealed.

Mr Gove, who has been tasked by new PM Boris Johnson with boosting preparations for a no-deal Brexit, wrote in The Sunday Times that this scenario is now a "very real prospect".He said he was hopeful the EU would be willing to renegotiate the withdrawal agreement it reached with Theresa May, "but we must operate on the assumption that they will not".

 

It comes as French MEP Nathalie Loiseau told Sophy Ridge On Sunday there was "nothing in between" Mrs May's withdrawal agreement and no-deal.

Edited July 28, 2019 by david555

[cleopatra2]

11 minutes ago, david555 said:

Sunday 28 July 2019 13:50, UK 
https://news.sky.com/story/boris-bounce-conservatives-boosted-after-electing-boris-johnson-as-leader-polls-suggest-11772028

 

Government 'assuming' no deal - as Philip Hammond 'holds secret talks' 
A series of polls suggest the Tories have benefited from a "Boris bounce" since the new PM took office. 

The government is "working on the assumption" the UK will leave the EU without a deal, Cabinet Office minister Michael Gove has revealed.

Mr Gove, who has been tasked by new PM Boris Johnson with boosting preparations for a no-deal Brexit, wrote in The Sunday Times that this scenario is now a "very real prospect".He said he was hopeful the EU would be willing to renegotiate the withdrawal agreement it reached with Theresa May, "but we must operate on the assumption that they will not".

 

It comes as French MEP Nathalie Loiseau told Sophy Ridge On Sunday there was "nothing in between" Mrs May's withdrawal agreement and no-deal.

Quite a reversal from Boris leadership campaign over a week ago.

Then according to Boris a no deal was a million to one chance. Now it is government pilicy

[david555]

12 minutes ago, cleopatra2 said:

Quite a reversal from Boris leadership campaign over a week ago.

Then according to Boris a no deal was a million to one chance. Now it is government pilicy

At least they must prepare "softly-softly" their population that the Boris Nuclear threat is not working….????

And another quote from it : Mr Johnson has declared he will not accept the controversial Irish backstop contained within the current agreement - but Ms Loiseau said the EU would not ratify an agreement without it, adding: "You have changed your prime minister but we have not changed our minds.

Edited July 28, 2019 by david555

[Basil B]

Gove has let the cat out of the bag...

Quote

The government is now "working on the assumption" of a no-deal Brexit, Michael Gove has said.

Mr Gove said his team still aimed to come to an agreement with Brussels but, writing in the Sunday Times, he added: "No deal is now a very real prospect."

The prime minister has made Mr Gove responsible for preparing for no-deal.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49141375

That's very clear now, pretend to negotiate but demand unacceptable terms because they do not want a deal...  

[citybiker]

Gove has let the cat out of the bag...

The government is now "working on the assumption" of a no-deal Brexit, Michael Gove has said.
Mr Gove said his team still aimed to come to an agreement with Brussels but, writing in the Sunday Times, he added: "No deal is now a very real prospect."
The prime minister has made Mr Gove responsible for preparing for no-deal.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49141375

That's very clear now, pretend to negotiate but demand unacceptable terms because they do not want a deal...  
Gove role is fiscally in charge, I expect the situation on anything will be fluid right up until midnight of 31st Oct.

That's how Brussels works, Boris knows the EU system well too having previously worked there.

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[bomber]

4 hours ago, vogie said:

Work in progress.

a sign used to avoid prosecution by dirty/unhealthy restaurants/bars when they knew "knock" was coming,good enough for tramp i suppose.

[bomber]

3 hours ago, Pumpuynarak said:

The EU are shitting themselves at the thought of the UK LEAVING, all them tinpot member countries who contribute FA, can you just imagine their future without the UK contribution, no money=no honey lol

spain/bulgaria/portugal/latvia are barely aware the UK is leaving,if/when they do life wont change,despite what the bulldog thinks

[7by7]

What would a no deal Brexit mean?

 

From the Wikipedia article on the Good Friday Agreement

Quote

In order to protect North-South co-operation and avoid controls on the Irish border, the UK agreed to protect the Agreement in all its parts and "in the absence of agreed solutions, the United Kingdom will maintain full alignment with those rules of the Internal Market and the Customs Union which, now or in the future, support North-South cooperation, the all-island economy and the protection of the 1998 Agreement."^[28]

 

So it seems that leaving with no deal, especially no deal over the Irish border issue, means remaining in the internal market and customs union!

 

Unless Boris is prepared to break both his word: Boris Johnson: Brexit would not affect Irish border and risk a return to the violence. Violence which dissident Republicans have already restarted:

Senior PSNI officer drove booby trapped car

Dissidents used 'booby-trapped' bomb in police murder bid in Craigavon.

 

So far, thankfully, it's dissidents who are involved, but if no agreement over the border is reached then the Good Friday Agreement is broken and so it is probable that the PIRA will decide to get involved. 

 

On the other hand, if Northern Ireland is forced into the Republic against the will of the majority, then the UDA and other Unionist terrorists will get active again.

 

 

[citybiker]

HMG will not reinstate a Hard Border, neither will Dublin as it’s been made clear by Leo despite all the waffle, spin and threats. The WA backstop is purely a EU insurance policy (politically linked to the GFA imo ) as it gives ‘leverage’ & most importantly power, which Brussels craves.

Only Brussels is insisting on a nil required hard border, with Germany preparing a significant fiscal package for ROI for direct impact of possibility of no deal.....




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[david555]

6 hours ago, Basil B said:

Gove has let the cat out of the bag...

That's very clear now, pretend to negotiate but demand unacceptable terms because they do not want a deal...  

B.J. just used his bold promises to get finally where he was longtime working at ….PM at any prize ...

[howbri]

Nevertheless, investors fear a no-deal exit would send shock waves through global markets and hurt the world's economy.

The socialist media said the same thing about Trump. Go Boris! Go Trump! Drain the swamp.

[transam]

11 hours ago, puipuitom said:

see in google with "Jacob Rees-Mogg Use imperial measurements" 

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/9595040/jacob-rees-mogg-rule-book-esquire/

https://www.ft.com/content/e0556f76-afc6-11e9-8030-530adfa879c2  

The UK's industrial revolution came from many angles and systems used. Many companies designing stuff using their own design threads. Threads are just measurements of width, depth, pitch. There was not a starting point where everyone sat round a table and said we must have this. It was an engineering process spanning many decades. The USA in it's short history also had it's own thread measurements which were different to Imperial and not metric.

 

Yes metric simplifies things which I suppose is progress, but I see no problem at all if in the British Isles folk want to buy a pound of spuds or a pint of beer or travel in MPH....That is up to us, not the other sheep... 

[transam]

12 hours ago, puipuitom said:

Which countries want to setep out of the EU ?

Just read some "brexit fake news" https://www.indy100.com/article/eu-membership-countries-vote-leave-remain-8888956

EU28, Kantar poll: European Union Membership Referendum % Remain

Ireland 91% Netherlands 91% Sweden 89% Spain 88% Germany 89% Belgium 87% Portugal 92% Greece 75% Bulgaria 83% France 74% Estonia 89% Slovakia 86% Italy 72% Hungary 81% Denmark 86% Poland 89% Romania 89%

To give you a second: the Dutch PVV, and ONLY who want a NEXIT went from 4 seats in the EU parliament to.. ZERO 

 

Not all want to commit commercial + economical suicide like the British ( or better: the English)

Have you spoken to any of those countries in "confidence"...????

[vogie]

10 hours ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

 

1) For the EU, the worst outcome is not a no-deal Brexit. It’s putting the single market at risk. 

 

2) For the UK, a no-deal Brexit is the worst outcome. That’s why parliament will prevent it at all cost. 

 

3) A no-deal Brexit is more worse for the UK than for the EU as well. 

 

Thus, there will be no no-deal Brexit. It’s not rocket science to see that. 

You are about as accurate with your predictions as Mystic Meg is with hers.????????

[Pumpuynarak]

6 hours ago, bomber said:

spain/bulgaria/portugal/latvia are barely aware the UK is leaving,if/when they do life wont change,despite what the bulldog thinks

Money talks, bullshit walks lol

[sandyf]

17 hours ago, AGareth2 said:

The Republic will fold

Obviously reunification never crossed your mind.

[JonnyF]

11 hours ago, stevenl said:

Yes, and it may happen.

But the post I reacted to said the negative economic scenarios after brexit are clearly not correct since they don't show yet. With brexit not effectuated that is quite logical.

The predictions were based on a Vote to Leave, not leaving. They said there would be an emergency budget immediately after a Leave Vote and hundreds of thousands of job losses and I repeat, just by Voting to leave not actually leaving (I hope you understand the difference between the two).

 

Therefore you are wrong, just as Carney was with his pathetic attempt at scare mongering that most intelligent people simply ignored, and were proved correct to ignore.

[sandyf]

16 hours ago, Jip99 said:

But Boris doesn’t have to get No Deal through parliament. Article 50 achieves that on 31 October.

Do people really believe that by Oct 31st there will be no deals on current legislative agreements.

 

Boris has said that in the absence of a withdrawal agreement that after Oct 31st he would require EU co-operation, quite delusional, particularly considering some of the past rhetoric. Wishful thinking and complex legalities are poles apart.

 

On February 18 I heard the Foreign Secretary repeatedly tell the Munich Security Conference that leaving the EU would mean “liberation”. A man of his intelligence surely knew that in Munich the word means escape from Nazi rule.

Not a new theme for him: on May 16 2016 he had told Sunday Telegraph readers that the European Commission’s aims were similar to those of Hitler’s Third Reich. And he had since compared President Juncker to a prisoner-of-war camp guard.

https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/john-kerr-brexit-is-about-foreign-policy-why-is-britain-being-so-silent-a3617336.html

[Jip99]

10 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Do people really believe that by Oct 31st there will be no deals on current legislative agreements.

 

Boris has said that in the absence of a withdrawal agreement that after Oct 31st he would require EU co-operation, quite delusional, particularly considering some of the past rhetoric. Wishful thinking and complex legalities are poles apart.

 

On February 18 I heard the Foreign Secretary repeatedly tell the Munich Security Conference that leaving the EU would mean “liberation”. A man of his intelligence surely knew that in Munich the word means escape from Nazi rule.

Not a new theme for him: on May 16 2016 he had told Sunday Telegraph readers that the European Commission’s aims were similar to those of Hitler’s Third Reich. And he had since compared President Juncker to a prisoner-of-war camp guard.

https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/john-kerr-brexit-is-about-foreign-policy-why-is-britain-being-so-silent-a3617336.html

 

 

I believe there will be a deal by 31 October.