Emergency braking on an underbone bike?

[OneMoreFarang]

I have a 150cc underbone Suzuki Raider 150.

Recently I had to brake hard unexpectantly and I was struggling to stay on the bike.

The reason is that there is nothing to press the legs against and normally the arms are not straight so with heavy braking the body moves forward.

What's the best way to handle this in emergencies?

 

This is just a picture to show the typical riding position with bent arms.

 

[thaiguzzi]

1. Go visit the S/H bike breakers.

2. Find a suitable fuel tank to your liking.

3. Buy some duct tape.

4. Tape said tank to underbone.

re the bent arms;

1. Sit further back, even on the pillion seat.

2. Buy a broom. Remover the handle.

3. Saw broom handle in half.

4. Attach wood handles to arms with said duct tape.

Bingo.

Ready for emergency braking.

Thank me later, you owe me a beer.

[JonnyF]

Surely your arms are sufficient to keep yourself in place for a one time emergency stop, even if they are slightly bent?

 

I can't imagine the g-force from braking is that intense on a Raider 150. It's not like you're doing 30 laps with a set of Brembo M50's and slicks on there.

 

Taking Guzzi's idea one step further, maybe you could get a double ended broom. One broom end into your stomach, the other end into the ignition area just below the bars. Not comfortable? Add a simple shock absorber in the middle (make sure it's preload adjustable)...

 

 

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, thaiguzzi said:

1. Sit further back, even on the pillion seat.

Did you ever try that?

I know some people sit like that.

But if you sit at the front of the seat with bent arms the bike is much better maneuverable, especially splitting lanes in heavy traffic.

 

52 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Surely your arms are sufficient to keep yourself in place for a one time emergency stop, even if they are slightly bent? 

 

I can't imagine the g-force from braking is that intense on a Raider 150. It's not like you're doing 30 laps with a set of Brembo M50's and slicks on there.

Let's say it like that: I have that bike since 5 years and until now I never had a problem with braking.

But recently there was a taxi in front of me, driving along on a relative empty road, and then suddenly he braked - I guess for some customer on the side of the road.

That was unexpected for me and I had to brake hard and my body moved forward on the bike. And I am pretty sure even with moderate speed and heavy braking it's difficult to have enough power in the arms to stop that movement.

I am relative tall and the bike is small (which is normally good in traffic). That might be part of the problem.

I never had a problem like that on a "normal" bike. But on a normal bike there is the tank to stop you (thanks thaiguzzi).

In this case nothing bad happend, the taxi driver just continued driving.

But if the car in front of me would have braked 100% then there is a good chance I would have collided with that car. That is why I ask.

[Kwasaki]

2 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

What's the best way to handle this in emergencies?

Jump off.

[Vacuum]

2 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

What's the best way to handle this in emergencies?

Keep your distance. 

[jackdd]

Install a seat belt

[dn012]

It would help if you had foot pegs that were much further forward so that you could brace your weight with your powerful leg muscles.That is why all dirt bikes such as motor cross supermoto etc have foot pegs further forward than your style of bike.If you could find a shop to fit some foot pegs comfortably forward and low you will have more chance of braking hard and bracing with your legs.Just an idea from a KTM SM rider.

[jackdd]

7 hours ago, dn012 said:

It would help if you had foot pegs that were much further forward so that you could brace your weight with your powerful leg muscles.That is why all dirt bikes such as motor cross supermoto etc have foot pegs further forward than your style of bike.If you could find a shop to fit some foot pegs comfortably forward and low you will have more chance of braking hard and bracing with your legs.Just an idea from a KTM SM rider.

You talk like you never saw a motor cross or supermoto bike. If you sit normally (like when you ride on the street) on a motor cross bike, your feet are about straight under your ass. No chance brace any weight like this.

I think any underbone bike has the footpegs further forward than this already.

[papa al]

PUSH UPS

[VocalNeal]

On 7/31/2019 at 9:52 AM, OneMoreFarang said:

What's the best way to handle this in emergencies?

Don't get yourself into situation where you will need to brake heavily. Always scan for an escape route.

[OneMoreFarang]

After all these wonderful tips and tricks I observed my own "behavior" on the small bike.

Most of the time my arms are almost stretched, but not completely and with maybe 10 degree angle I guess in most braking situation that would be no problem.

I guess in the described emergency situation I was for whatever reason leaning a little more forward with a bigger angle in the arms. Maybe lots of push-ups would make that situation better but I don't plan to start with that anytime soon.

 

Enjoy the ride!

[EVENKEEL]

What's your ht and wt, reason for asking is I had a Raider 150, got rid of it and today went looking for a motorbike. Sat on the new Raider with FI and thought....I just might get another but my old lady says its a bit small for me...I'm 5'11" 85  Kilo.

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, EVENKEEL said:

What's your ht and wt, reason for asking is I had a Raider 150, got rid of it and today went looking for a motorbike. Sat on the new Raider with FI and thought....I just might get another but my old lady says its a bit small for me...I'm 5'11" 85  Kilo.

I am higher and heavier. And I ride if often enough with my gf together - another 50kg.

Yes, the bike is relative small compared to my size and I won't win a best looking guy on bike competition with it.

But the Raider has a strong frame and wheels and a powerful engine and good brakes and I like it a lot splitting lanes on Sukhumvit. I don't think there is any smaller and more powerful bike for sale in Thailand.

I have the 2014 version with air cooling and oil cooler (no water) and I never had problems even in long time stop and go traffic.

 

I also have a KTM Duke 390 which is also lots of fun (about 45HP) but also considerably bigger.

If I would have to chose to own just one bike I am not sure which one I would choose. I am sure the Raider is faster in average in the typical bad inner city traffic.

 

If you are interested in a good Suzuki dealer in Bangkok let me know. I am very happy with the one where I bought and service my Raider.

[Damrongsak]

Just wedge a bit of padding up front.

[richard_smith237]

Velcro on the seat !!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[EVENKEEL]

11 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I am higher and heavier. And I ride if often enough with my gf together - another 50kg.

Yes, the bike is relative small compared to my size and I won't win a best looking guy on bike competition with it.

But the Raider has a strong frame and wheels and a powerful engine and good brakes and I like it a lot splitting lanes on Sukhumvit. I don't think there is any smaller and more powerful bike for sale in Thailand.

I have the 2014 version with air cooling and oil cooler (no water) and I never had problems even in long time stop and go traffic.

 

I also have a KTM Duke 390 which is also lots of fun (about 45HP) but also considerably bigger.

If I would have to chose to own just one bike I am not sure which one I would choose. I am sure the Raider is faster in average in the typical bad inner city traffic.

 

If you are interested in a good Suzuki dealer in Bangkok let me know. I am very happy with the one where I bought and service my Raider.

I'm in the Rayong area, so I'll find one there or the one in Pattaya. Price was 69,000 bht as compared to 67,000 a few years back. They're FI now.

[OneMoreFarang]

11 hours ago, Damrongsak said:

Just wedge a bit of padding up front.

That is obviously not the first picture I see with so many people on one bike.

But I am sure it's the first picture like that with (almost) everybody wearing a helmet.

[Moonlover]

On ‎7‎/‎31‎/‎2019 at 11:47 AM, OneMoreFarang said:

But recently there was a taxi in front of me, driving along on a relative empty road, and then suddenly he braked - I guess for some customer on the side of the road.

That was unexpected for me and I had to brake hard and my body moved forward on the bike.

Admit it @OneMoreFarang you broke the golden rule and failed to 'expect the unexpected'. The most basic of rule defensive driving.

 

But I get your point. I've never had to do an emergency stop in anger, but I do rehearse them occasionally on my Click. I've never had the problem that you did. I can only guess the you really were 'braking in anger' and that your arms were too relaxed at the time.

 

Back to the defensive riding theme. Emergency braking on a motorcycle should be the very 'last act of desperation'. It comes with its own built in hazards. I've had a few dodgy moments whilst riding out here (who hasn't) but I've always left enough room around me to be able to manoeuvre my way out of trouble.

 

Save riding everyone.

[OneMoreFarang]

2 hours ago, Moonlover said:

Admit it @OneMoreFarang you broke the golden rule and failed to 'expect the unexpected'. The most basic of rule defensive driving.

 

But I get your point. I've never had to do an emergency stop in anger, but I do rehearse them occasionally on my Click. I've never had the problem that you did. I can only guess the you really were 'braking in anger' and that your arms were too relaxed at the time.

 

Back to the defensive riding theme. Emergency braking on a motorcycle should be the very 'last act of desperation'. It comes with its own built in hazards. I've had a few dodgy moments whilst riding out here (who hasn't) but I've always left enough room around me to be able to manoeuvre my way out of trouble.

 

Save riding everyone.

Yes, I admit it. The problem is obviously it's not so easy to expect all the time the unexpected...

And I think it's almost impossible to train emergency stops. Because if we train them then we expect them - by definition.

 

I know the principle of avoiding to brake and avoiding the obstacle (in my case the taxi). But I still prefer to brake hard and maybe even hit (with slow speed) another car instead of changing the lane in an emergency without watching properly. There are just too many cars and bikes on other lanes which can hit us hard if we change the lanes.

Yes, I look regularly in the mirrors but it's almost impossible to know all the time what's behind and especially what is coming from behind with high speed.

[thaiguzzi]

4 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

They're FI now.

Which is a reason to buy an older S/H carburetor version.

And i'm a motorcycle mechanic.

[johng]

5 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

They're FI now.

Not just FI  but LC too.

the only one I've ever seen..the owner said he had to order it specially.

 

[OneMoreFarang]

Here are all the details for the newest Raider 150

https://www.thaisuzuki.co.th/en/bikes/raiderr150/

 

I have the 2014 carburetor version which has an oil cooler and no water cooler and I am happy with that bike. I never had an engine or any other problem.

I never rode the FI and I have no idea if the water cooling of the new bike works well in stop and go traffic on a hot day. That it where I had other bikes with water cooler overheat. I would certainly try that or at least try to find user reviews on the internet about it.

 

[Farangwithaplan]

4 hours ago, thaiguzzi said:

Which is a reason to buy an older S/H carburetor version.

And i'm a motorcycle mechanic.

Maybe you should learn to fix bikes newer than 1980s than give useless and outdated information. No wonder you use so many confused stickers. All this fuel injection technology and things of that nature is over your head.

 

Manufacturers everywhere would have ditched fuel injection if your statement held any water in real world situations. It wouldn't suprise me if you start suggesting cable actuated drum brakes are superior do hydraulic disc on mainstream modern vehicles next.

 

Edited August 3, 2019 by Farangwithaplan

[thaiguzzi]

19 minutes ago, Farangwithaplan said:

Maybe you should learn to fix bikes newer than 1980s than give useless and outdated information. No wonder you use so many confused stickers. All this fuel injection technology and things of that nature is over your head.

 

Manufacturers everywhere would have ditched fuel injection if your statement held any water in real world situations. It wouldn't suprise me if you start suggesting drum brakes are superior next.

 

 

 

27 minutes ago, Farangwithaplan said:

All this fuel injection technology and things of that nature is over your head.

Correct. It is when it's broken.

28 minutes ago, Farangwithaplan said:

Manufacturers everywhere would have ditched fuel injection

Nothing to do with forced ever tighter emissions then.

 

Ah, the Penske troll is back.

Listen, my TPS or MAP or O2 sensor has just let me down on the side of the road.

How do i know which one it is and how do i fix it ?

Call the dealer, oh thank you.

The stock fueling is very lean , and the bike runs like shIt at low rpm.

How do i fix it?

Oh thanx i plug my laptop in after buying a PC5 for 400$.

Or take it to a dealer.

Meanwhile, i've fixed the carb on the side of the road, changed the points or swapped the electronic stator/rotor or black box over.

In 35 years of traveling extensively, we (me and my crew) never had to use a m/c dealer, and we fixed everything ourselves.

Now, GFY.

[findlay13]

I've just recently picked up my new Triumph speedmaster.EFI,ABS, rain mode, ride by wire electronic throttle,engine imobiliser etc etc.all the bells and whistles

 

It's great ATM but if it breaksdown, it's  call the shop and pick it up.

 

Edited August 3, 2019 by findlay13

[OneMoreFarang]

2 hours ago, Farangwithaplan said:

Maybe you should learn to fix bikes newer than 1980s than give useless and outdated information. No wonder you use so many confused stickers. All this fuel injection technology and things of that nature is over your head.

 

Manufacturers everywhere would have ditched fuel injection if your statement held any water in real world situations. It wouldn't suprise me if you start suggesting cable actuated drum brakes are superior do hydraulic disc on mainstream modern vehicles next.

 

Why do you attack someone with another opinion so aggressively?

Fuel Injection can be wonderful if it works and if the mapping is the way you want it.

But a carburetors have also lots of advantages like @thaiguzzi described.

Why can't we just agree that one is not always better than the other. They have both advantages and disadvantages and they are definitely no reason to attack each other.

Be nice and learn from each other - that's the whole idea about forums like this.

[thaiguzzi]

8 hours ago, johng said:

Not just FI  but LC too.

the only one I've ever seen..the owner said he had to order it specially.

 

If you have a close look at those older last model air cooled Raiders (carb'd ), they are a wonderful bit of kit.

It's a tall, 4V motor with close pitch finning that looks like it has been lopped off the end of a 750 Bandit or last of the air cooled GSXR's.

[EVENKEEL]

8 hours ago, johng said:

Not just FI  but LC too.

the only one I've ever seen..the owner said he had to order it specially.

 

I was scratching my head over LC and in dawned on me. I thought they were still air cooled. That's one more thing to go wrong. I may rethink it and get a used one.

[EVENKEEL]

9 hours ago, thaiguzzi said:

Which is a reason to buy an older S/H carburetor version.

And i'm a motorcycle mechanic.

And they're water cooled, dang it.