'Many killed' in shooting at Walmart in El Paso; suspect in custody

[luckyluke]

On 8/5/2019 at 12:52 AM, CNXexpat said:

On 8/4/2019 at 11:40 PM, luckyluke said:

The majority of the Americans are not really affect with all these mass shootings.

Oh yes, they are,.... 

I will believe it when, under pressure of the majority of the people, changes will occur in the legislation. 

 

[mania]

3 hours ago, emptypockets said:

Watched a black comedian from the US talking about exactly the same thing. He said make bullets $500 dollars each. Problem solved.

Have the 2nd and keep the guns - just can't afford the ammo.

Perhaps in 20-30 years that increased ammo prices would have an effect but....

 

Folks like that comedian don't have a clue....

 

In 2008 when Obama first got elected Americans bought more ammo than both the China & India military

 

Then take a look at companies like Dillon & RCBS, Lee etc etc see what the reloading world is all about in the USA & realize the stores of

powder,bullets,primers & brass in America is bigger than one can imagine

 

At the end of the day all the talk about more gun/ammo control are just political talking points trying to score votes.

Because they know the truth & they know that Pandora's Box is well & truly opened

Of course gun license/registration etc are all good & States have them

 

America need to look at another way to deal with crazy

America also need to go with life sentences for those selling unlicensed firearms or using firearms in any crime

Edited August 5, 2019 by mania

[BritManToo]

39 minutes ago, mania said:

America need to look at another way to deal with crazy

America also need to go with life sentences for those selling unlicensed firearms or using firearms in any crime

The USA leads the world in 3 things.

1) number of it's citizens in jail (per 1,000 population)

2) number of adults that believe in angels

3) military spending.

Edited August 5, 2019 by BritManToo

[mania]

30 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

The USA leads the world in 3 things.

1) number of it's citizens in jail (per 1,000 population)

2) number of adults that believe in angels

3) military spending.

 

I know #3 is true & crazier than crazy

 

I just checked #1 & your right (was surprised to see Thailand in 5th place) Thought they would be much lower

 

#2 ???? not religious myself but not surprised

[kingdong]

5 hours ago, heybruce said:

Pass laws requiring gun owners to be licensed and guns to be registered, much like drivers and vehicles.  Then let the police start confiscating unregistered guns and arresting unlicensed people carrying guns.

don,t seem t be having a lot of luck stopping the misuse of illeagal drugs flooding into the usa,perhaps yhey should worry about that first and the problem of illegal guns second,,after all they seem to go hand in hand.

[BritManToo]

1 minute ago, kingdong said:

don,t seem t be having a lot of luck stopping the misuse of illeagal drugs flooding into the usa,perhaps yhey should worry about that first and the problem of illegal guns second,,after all they seem to go hand in hand.

Just make the drugs legal (same as the guns), problem solved.

[dcutman]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle-ramming_attack

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Mass_stabbings

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_shooting

 

Inanimate objects do not kill people. Sick (mental), unhappy people kill people, with the most convenient tool available. Banning knives, all motor vehicles, or guns will not stop mass killings. The only thing that will stop it is societal and cultural changes, and of course identifying those that are suffer mental issues early before they snap.

 

[kingdong]

2 hours ago, mania said:

Perhaps in 20-30 years that increased ammo prices would have an effect but....

 

Folks like that comedian don't have a clue....

 

In 2008 when Obama first got elected Americans bought more ammo than both the China & India military

 

Then take a look at companies like Dillon & RCBS, Lee etc etc see what the reloading world is all about in the USA & realize the stores of

powder,bullets,primers & brass in America is bigger than one can imagine

 

At the end of the day all the talk about more gun/ammo control are just political talking points trying to score votes.

Because they know the truth & they know that Pandora's Box is well & truly opened

Of course gun license/registration etc are all good & States have them

 

America need to look at another way to deal with crazy

America also need to go with life sentences for those selling unlicensed firearms or using firearms in any crime

life imprisonment?why not bring back the death penalty?an eye for an eye--------

[kingdong]

9 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Just make the drugs legal (same as the guns), problem solved.

i assume your quote is sarcastic,perhaps you could enlighten all the readers just how easily one can obtain a gun legally in the uk.

[Sandy Freckle]

5 hours ago, emptypockets said:

I take the opposite view.

In Australia paedophiles and child rapists cannot be named as it may identify the victims. I'm sure the people who know the victims are well aware of who the offender is. Nobody else does though. 5 or 10  years down the track that <deleted> could be living in your street and you will never know until it happens again. Wrong in my opinion.

There is truth in what you say mate but in case you hadn't noticed..., this specific forum topic is about gun violence. Child abuse is a different kettle of fish..., comparing 'apples with oranges'..., and it's 'horses for courses'. 

[Sandy Freckle]

21 hours ago, mogandave said:

Unless of course political hay can be made from it...

Sad but true...., 

[mogandave]

By my count there were 37 mass shooting in the eight years of Obama.  There have been 30 mass shooting in less than three years of Trump.  https://www.statista.com/statistics/811487/number-of-mass-shootings-in-the-us/
 
Why do you maintain the Dayton shooter "is a lefty"?  Do you have evidence that his actions were motivated by political ideology?

You don’t think your numbers are a little suspect?

In any event, the number of mass shootings tripled during the Obama administration, meaning there were three times as many as there during the Bush administration, not three times as many as during the Trump administration. Nice deflection though...

[mooping20Baht]

46 minutes ago, dcutman said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle-ramming_attack

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Mass_stabbings

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_shooting

 

Inanimate objects do not kill people. Sick (mental), unhappy people kill people, with the most convenient tool available. Banning knives, all motor vehicles, or guns will not stop mass killings. The only thing that will stop it is societal and cultural changes, and of course identifying those that are suffer mental issues early before they snap.

 

"American society is disintegrating. Mad, individual anti-social acts such as the one that occurred at Columbine will not be halted by the pious wishes, much less the indifference, of the powers that be."

 

Maybe it's high time to give it a try anyway  , please consider it

[rabas]

9 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

9 hours ago, rabas said:

This graph could lead to claims that mass shootings increased greatly under Obama.

The rise also could be correlated to the increases in white nationalism and nationalist groups (domestic terrorism) that took root and grew with encouragement from people like Trump, the birther movement, Fox News, etc etc.

 

I posted this data to refute another poster who posted fake snoops.com info to falsely suggest otherwise. At no point did I suggest it was because of Obama. The rise of mass shootings has been relentless for decades so I highly doubt it's due to your own bogeyman, Trump, white, Fox, and a birth certificate.

 

 

 

 

[xylophone]

12 hours ago, mogandave said:

 

So you blame Trump’s immigration rhetoric for the shooting, but call the wall, which is a big part of his rhetoric off topic.

Typical

 

If you can't see the difference then I fear for you and others that think likewise.

 

Trump and his racist remarks are responsible for the shootings and enticing racism.........not the wall. Beto O'Rourke called it right.

 

The orange clown keeps on about the wall because it was a campaign promise, despite the fact that the majority of illegals don't enter that way. He got it wrong as he has with most things, but won't back off for fear of being seen as ineffective!

 

Time to look inward...........it has been said that illegals push down wages, but who is employing them?? American employers hire them and do so because they are prepared to work for lower wages because they are undocumented, and the employers know this????????

 

If there is no work, will they still come??

[mogandave]

I was in the Air Force for 20 years.  No combat.  Before being allowed to handle a gun I was given training by an NCO who made it clear he would shoot any trainee who handled their weapon in an irresponsible manner.  Most of the training focused on safety.  I assume your initial weapons training was similar.
 
I am not opposed to gun ownership, but want it regulated in much the same manner as vehicle ownership, and I want the regulation to require gun safety training.  I don't want untrained idiots owning guns, and I don't see how to prevent that without changes to US gun laws.

In the US, anyone with the money (or credit) can buy a car, or any number of cars. There is no training or licensing required. Neither is their any training or licensing required to register the car, all you have to do is pay the taxes and fees. You do (in most cases) have to have a license to drive a car, but there is no limit on the number of cars you can own or any requirement that they be registered.

I am not opposed to background checks, safety courses or registration, all of which are (I believe) already required in most states. That said, I think their should be no government fees or taxes (aside from sales taxes) associated with gun ownership.

What I don’t understand how any of the things you suggest would have any impact on the number of mass shootings. If anything, better training could well result in more victims.

[mogandave]

If you can't see the difference then I fear for you and others that think likewise.
 
Trump and his racist remarks are responsible for the shootings and enticing racism.........not the wall. Beto O'Rourke called it right.
 
The orange clown keeps on about the wall because it was a campaign promise, despite the fact that the majority of illegals don't enter that way. He got it wrong as he has with most things, but won't back off for fear of being seen as ineffective!
 
Time to look inward...........it has been said that illegals push down wages, but who is employing them?? American employers hire them and do so because they are prepared to work for lower wages because they are undocumented, and the employers know this????????
 
If there is no work, will they still come??

Well yes, because the ones that don’t work can get on public assistance.

So you would support the fed mandating full implementation of E-Verify in all states?

[chrisinth]

6 hours ago, emptypockets said:

Sounds easy and logical. But in reality not so easy. OK hero pulls his gun fires at a shooter. Shooter is one of two or three.. return fire .ooops...dead hero. Another scenario - hero pulls his weapon, shoots the shooter who  happens to be a cop trying to save peoples lives - whoops. Not so simple is it?

Not my words. I'm in Thailand listening to a night time talk back radio programme in Australia on an app. The guy who said the above was from Florida, also listening and talking on line. Quite fascinating.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I agree with the scenarios represented above. But that is the main point of my post, if a person doesn't understand situation awareness, is not qualified (in their mind) to make a decision then, IMO, they should not be certified to have a LTC. But of course, my original question was hypothetical anyway.

 

And just for quick clarity, I respect the 2nd amendment and the rights to bear arms. As long as people using these rights are properly trained and fully understand why they opt to personal carry.

 

 

[xylophone]

Trump and his racist remarks are responsible for the shootings and enticing racism.........not the wall. Beto O'Rourke called it right.
 
The orange clown keeps on about the wall because it was a campaign promise, despite the fact that the majority of illegals don't enter that way. He got it wrong as he has with most things, but won't back off for fear of being seen as ineffective!

 

That was the main point of my post but you ignored it!

 

10 minutes ago, mogandave said:

Well yes, because the ones that don’t work can get on public assistance.

If these are illegals then the Govt will know that if they apply for public assistance, so can legally send them back.....problem solved. Or Trump could call them rapists, criminals and murderers and entice right wingers to shoot them!!

 

As I said, Beto O'Rourke was spot on with what he said.......a voice of reason and truth amongst the Trump hatred.

 

 

[heybruce]

2 hours ago, mogandave said:

 

You don’t think your numbers are a little suspect?

In any event, the number of mass shootings tripled during the Obama administration, meaning there were three times as many as there during the Bush administration, not three times as many as during the Trump administration. Nice deflection though...

No, I don't think the numbers are suspect.  Why do you?

 

The number of mass shootings has been on a sharp upward trend for 20 years.  Trump is on course to exceed the number in eight years of Obama in only four years, maybe three. 

 

At least Obama tried to get gun control legislation through Congress.  What has Trump done?

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, mogandave said:

 

In the US, anyone with the money (or credit) can buy a car, or any number of cars. There is no training or licensing required. Neither is their any training or licensing required to register the car, all you have to do is pay the taxes and fees. You do (in most cases) have to have a license to drive a car, but there is no limit on the number of cars you can own or any requirement that they be registered.

I am not opposed to background checks, safety courses or registration, all of which are (I believe) already required in most states. That said, I think their should be no government fees or taxes (aside from sales taxes) associated with gun ownership.

What I don’t understand how any of the things you suggest would have any impact on the number of mass shootings. If anything, better training could well result in more victims.

How many cars are sold in the US to people who don't intend to use them?  However if it makes my post clearer, anyone in the US who wants to use a gun should be trained and licensed.  Guns should be registered.

 

Safety training would cut down on the number of accidental shootings, especially if carelessness with guns was prosecuted as criminal negligence.  Making people responsible for properly securing guns when not in use would cut down on gun thefts, and so the number of stolen guns illegally traded on the streets.  Making it easier for the police to seize unregistered guns and unlicensed people carrying guns would reduce the number of guns and criminals in circulation.

 

In general, requiring people to demonstrate they understand gun safety will reduce the number of irresponsible idiots with guns.  Licensing gun users and registering guns would not eliminate gun crimes and accidents, just as licensing drivers and registering vehicles does not eliminate vehicle crimes and accidents.  However I think most people agree that the roads are safer with some limitations on who can drive and what can be driven.  Doing something similar with guns would reduce, but not eliminate, the gun carnage.

 

[wayned]

1 hour ago, heybruce said:

How many cars are sold in the US to people who don't intend to use them?  However if it makes my post clearer, anyone in the US who wants to use a gun should be trained and licensed.  Guns should be registered.

 

Safety training would cut down on the number of accidental shootings, especially if carelessness with guns was prosecuted as criminal negligence.  Making people responsible for properly securing guns when not in use would cut down on gun thefts, and so the number of stolen guns illegally traded on the streets.  Making it easier for the police to seize unregistered guns and unlicensed people carrying guns would reduce the number of guns and criminals in circulation.

 

In general, requiring people to demonstrate they understand gun safety will reduce the number of irresponsible idiots with guns.  Licensing gun users and registering guns would not eliminate gun crimes and accidents, just as licensing drivers and registering vehicles does not eliminate vehicle crimes and accidents.  However I think most people agree that the roads are safer with some limitations on who can drive and what can be driven.  Doing something similar with guns would reduce, but not eliminate, the gun carnage.

 

Many years ago the primary goal of the NRA was gun safety.  Now it is just a "non profit" gun lobbying organization with huge salaries and bonuses  paid to it executives that has Trump by the short hairs!

[mogandave]

3 hours ago, xylophone said:

Trump and his racist remarks are responsible for the shootings and enticing racism.........not the wall. Beto O'Rourke called it right.
 
The orange clown keeps on about the wall because it was a campaign promise, despite the fact that the majority of illegals don't enter that way. He got it wrong as he has with most things, but won't back off for fear of being seen as ineffective!

 

That was the main point of my post but you ignored it!

 

If these are illegals then the Govt will know that if they apply for public assistance, so can legally send them back.....problem solved. Or Trump could call them rapists, criminals and murderers and entice right wingers to shoot them!!

 

As I said, Beto O'Rourke was spot on with what he said.......a voice of reason and truth amongst the Trump hatred.

 

 

So do you support the fed mandating full implementation of E-Verify in all states or not? You blame employers, at the very least, why not implement E-Verify?

 

They're not deported when they get a driver license, or when they get arrested, why would they be deported when they apply for food stamps or when they get free medical? 

 

Trump calling immigrants   rapists, criminals and murderers is a lie, just like Trump saying nazis  are fine people. This lie is told over and over by the mainstream media and leftists (redundant).

 

Why is Trump blamed for this while the media gets a pass? They are the ones fabricating and sensationalizing all the Trump racist nonsense. Even if you think Trump is a racist, its the media stirring up all the animosity. 

 

Robert Francis "Beto" O'Rourke is a lying POC exploiting this tragedy to further divide the county and further his career. Is he blaming Elizabeth Warren for Ohio? Of course not, that's different.

[mogandave]

2 hours ago, heybruce said:

How many cars are sold in the US to people who don't intend to use them?  However if it makes my post clearer, anyone in the US who wants to use a gun should be trained and licensed.  Guns should be registered.

 

Safety training would cut down on the number of accidental shootings, especially if carelessness with guns was prosecuted as criminal negligence.  Making people responsible for properly securing guns when not in use would cut down on gun thefts, and so the number of stolen guns illegally traded on the streets.  Making it easier for the police to seize unregistered guns and unlicensed people carrying guns would reduce the number of guns and criminals in circulation.

 

In general, requiring people to demonstrate they understand gun safety will reduce the number of irresponsible idiots with guns.  Licensing gun users and registering guns would not eliminate gun crimes and accidents, just as licensing drivers and registering vehicles does not eliminate vehicle crimes and accidents.  However I think most people agree that the roads are safer with some limitations on who can drive and what can be driven.  Doing something similar with guns would reduce, but not eliminate, the gun carnage.

 

How many people buy guns that never intend to use them? Quite a lot I think.

 

Why the deflection? I've already agreed training is a good and I don't doubt it will reduce the number of accidental shootings. 

 

What I asked is how any of this will reduce the number of mass shootings? You know it will not.

 

Bonus question: Why is it the left is so concerned about white people killing brown or black people, but they don't seem to give a whit about black people killing each other?

 

Why is the left concerned about black kids being kicked out of school at a higher rate than white kids, but they don't seem to care that the leading cause of death for young black men is homicide, while the leading cause of death young white men is car accidents?

 

Selective outrage.  

 

 

[mogandave]

2 hours ago, heybruce said:

The number of mass shootings has been on a sharp upward trend for 20 years.  Trump is on course to exceed the number in eight years of Obama in only four years, maybe three. 

 

So it's "...been on a sharp upward trend for 20 years..." but according to the left, this is all Trumps fault.

[candide]

5 hours ago, mogandave said:

 

You don’t think your numbers are a little suspect?

In any event, the number of mass shootings tripled during the Obama administration, meaning there were three times as many as there during the Bush administration, not three times as many as during the Trump administration. Nice deflection though...

 

From the Stanford University database, which is based on public information collected only from digital media. Stanford University even stated: “Data in the [database] spans a time period that includes the transition from traditional media to digital media in reporting. Numbers of incidents per year should at least in part be assumed to reflect this collection methodology and not just changes in incident frequency.” Thus, the more than threefold surge in mass shooting incidents shown in the Stanford data likely reflects increased online reporting and not necessarily a true increase in the rate of mass shootings.

[albertik]

 52 shot and wounded, and 7 shot and killed in Chicago over the past weekend. None of those stats are politically valuable for fundraising or other political reasons. (unable to blame Trump)

[mogandave]

From the Stanford University database, which is based on public information collected only from digital media. Stanford University even stated: “Data in the [database] spans a time period that includes the transition from traditional media to digital media in reporting. Numbers of incidents per year should at least in part be assumed to reflect this collection methodology and not just changes in incident frequency.” Thus, the more than threefold surge in mass shooting incidents shown in the Stanford data likely reflects increased online reporting and not necessarily a true increase in the rate of mass shootings.

Yes, we’ve only been able to count accurately since AFTER President Obama was elected, how convenient.

I wonder why they don’t point out how inaccurate most thermometers were 100 years ago when they’re
going on about global warming?

It’s nice that we can use the same statistics and massage them in a number of different ways until we get the outcome we need.

[mogandave]

 52 shot and wounded, and 7 shot and killed in Chicago over the past weekend. None of those stats are politically valuable for fundraising or other political reasons. (unable to blame Trump)

Lefty doesn’t care about black victims, unless the perpetrators are white.

[candide]

6 minutes ago, mogandave said:

 

Yes, we’ve only been able to count accurately since AFTER President Obama was elected, how convenient.

I wonder why they don’t point out how inaccurate most thermometers were 100 years ago when they’re
going on about global warming?

It’s nice that we can use the same statistics and massage them in a number of different ways until we get the outcome we need.

 

The increase you mentioned in your post was observed from the Stanford University database, also cited by riclag. And that's what Stanford University stated, not me: “Data in the [database] spans a time period that includes the transition from traditional media to digital media in reporting. Numbers of incidents per year should at least in part be assumed to reflect this collection methodology and not just changes in incident frequency."