Meeting with immigration about TM30 and the latest news about the petition

[lkv]

11 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

It is a fact that some Indians caused problems for many of us. In particular they faked some of the documents required when marrying a Thai citizen

No, they caused problems for themselves.

 

It is the Immigration that decided to change the rules without thinking of whether it would affect the comfort or liberties of others.

 

It's like saying it all started with the overstayer. "If the overstayer hadn't overstayed then...."

 

Any system with loopholes will be exploited by some, in any country. I would blame Immigration for having a silly lax system, if I was to blame anybody.

 

When I was doing visa runs on double/triple entry tourist visas 7 years ago, they were all smiles.

 

Nowadays, they would try to make it sound as if it was my fault, when in fact they allowed it at the time. (If they were to look back in my history).

 

But it does not surprise me.

Edited August 9, 2019 by lkv

[KhaoYai]

5 minutes ago, lkv said:

It is the Immigration that decided to change the rules without thinking of whether it would affect the comfort or liberties of others.

Firstly, they didn't change the rules - either on marriage or TM30. They enforced previous laws.

 

Secondly, to Thais, all non Thais are foreigners - they can't have laws relating to Indians, or any other nation separate from all others.

Edited August 9, 2019 by KhaoYai

[lkv]

13 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

Firstly, they didn't change the rules - either on marriage or TM30. They enforced previous laws.

 

Secondly, to Thais, all non Thais ar foreigners - they can't have laws relating to Indians, or any other nation separate from all others.

Pictures at the residence with the happily married couple was not "in the rules" many years ago.

 

And many other things.

 

Whether they issued new police orders or internal memos is less relevant.

 

Putting aside semantics, they started to ask for more and more stuff.

 

They will blame it on the Indians, I would tell them to look at themselves in the mirror, they had a weak system, prone to abuse, to begin with.

 

However, how they design the new regulations/memos/actions, and whether they consider or think about the overall effect on others, that's their responsibility.

Edited August 9, 2019 by lkv

[Mai Mee Tang]

Great thanks for that! Please keep us updated of the progress in this matter.

[roamer]

Richard Barrow promoted this petition on his blog and now has major problems with his visa extension with CW officials coming to his office etc according to his Twitter feed. I feel the two events are not unconnected. In the current climate it might be seen as wiser to keep your head below the parapet.

[Myran]

51 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

Firstly, they didn't change the rules - either on marriage or TM30. They enforced previous laws.

 

Secondly, to Thais, all non Thais are foreigners - they can't have laws relating to Indians, or any other nation separate from all others.

Sure they can have different rules for different nations; it seemingly works in regard to visas on arrival (which are only available for certain nationalities), as well as some nationalities only being able to apply for visas in their home countries.

[connda]

Seb,

Thanks for taking the imitative to set up the petition as well as meeting with Thai authorities.  

Perhaps in passing during one of your meetings you might mention how a Thai citizen who is married to a Canadian or US citizen is treated in our countries.
They are not immediately assumed to criminals who need to be tracked as soon as they de-board the plane.  Our own citizens would not allow such blatantly xenophobic and racist policies to be passed into law.  Sure they have to pass background checks, but once admitted to our respective countries they have a path to working, to permanent residency, and to citizenship should they desire.
But in Thailand there is no quid pro quo.  
You know as well as I do exactly how a foreign man married to a Thai woman is treated here in Thailand.  We are treated as potential criminals the day we arrive.  Married and 10 years later?  We're still potential criminals.  Married and 20 years later? We're still potential criminals.  As long as we live here we are naught but potential criminals in the eyes of Thai authorities.  And as such, we are supporting families at the whim of the Thai government.  No one like myself should get comfortable having visions of living out their life's surrounded by their children and grandchildren after living in Thailand for a couple of decades or more.  All it would take is a debilitating disease like a stroke where your Thai family didn't have the foresight to report you to Immigration and suddenly you're just a meat-bag on overstay - and now a criminal meat-bag at that.  Or suddenly the bottom falls out of the financial markets again and you no longer qualify to remain in Thailand with your family.  At best you're force to relocate to another country, at worst you're incarcerated as a criminal.  The years and years of supporting your Thai family meaning absolutely nothing.  We should not have to contemplate these eventualities.  I have Thai friends married to Canadian and US citizens.  These Thai will not ever be ejected out of Canada or the US and ripped away from their families for any reason.  But guys like me here in Thailand?  I shouldn't have to be making contingency plans on what to do if one day my local immigration office decides that it's own interpretation of the immigration police orders don't fit my case and an annual extension will not be happening on my next renewal.   Local immigration offices can interpret the Thai immigration police order however they wish.  So an individual petty bureaucrat is capably to forcing foreigners out the door simply because they personally don't like foreigners or perhaps they simply had a bad day.  It shouldn't be that way but it is.  And as a long stay expat married to a Thai women - why is it assumed that I'm a criminal?  Tracked like criminal and processed like a criminal.  And unlike a Thai criminal who has served their time in jail and have been released into society where it is assumed they will reintegrate into society as a upright citizen - I as a foreigner will always be suspected of being a criminal. Always!  I'm assuming that once a Thai parolee's parole is served that they are then no longer tracked?  But a long-stay foreigner?  Always. 

Again, thanks for taking the lead on this issue Seb.  I appreciate your effort! 

[KhaoYai]

6 minutes ago, roamer said:

n the current climate it might be seen as wiser to keep your head below the parapet.

The author of this thread does not need to worry about visa extensions - he has PR.

[roamer]

1 minute ago, KhaoYai said:

The author of this thread does not need to worry about visa extensions - he has PR.

Indeed. I should have made it clearer that my comments were in regard to those of us who are not in that position.

[KhaoYai]

6 minutes ago, Myran said:

Sure they can have different rules for different nations; it seemingly works in regard to visas on arrival (which are only available for certain nationalities), as well as some nationalities only being able to apply for visas in their home countries.

That is done either through bilateral agreements with other countries or because of concerns about their citizens. They are not going to write a whole new Immigration Act with sections dependant of where you come from.

[jobas69]

Your help is very much appreciated sir thank you ????????

[Maestro]

11 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

Is there a "law on people act" , I always thought it is a poorly translated reference to the constitution.

 

I have seen it called the Civil Registration Act in English but have been unable to find an English translation of this law. The Thai text is here:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1ZsiihhtkjhLCf-j4kS04XUxOx9N-z5JN

[Maestro]

9 hours ago, jackdd said:

Police orders always come with an index number, which index number did this one have?

 

Isaanlawyers mentioned an internal memo, not a Police Order. The content of these memos are not generally disclosed to the public.

[NightSky]

11 hours ago, Isaanlawyers said:

 

Two possibilities:

 

1) You are a troll and liar. In that case, we should care what you say.

 

2) You can prove to me that you can access the database of signature. SHOW ME (at [email protected]) who is the first signature in the SQL database and maybe 25, just for fun. And if you do so, you should help us to repair it instead of whining.

 

I think you probably make money with visas and try to make the people afraid to sign. That's really how I feel and I am rarely wrong about people. They don't jump on every opportunities like you do to scare people without explaining how there is a breach of security.

 

Waiting for your email.

 

Im not a troll or a liar. Im stating very basic knowledge to anyone who works with websites.

 

I have sent you a PM with details of how to easily fix the vulnerability on the website ????

 

 

 

Edited August 9, 2019 by NightSky

[ThaiLawOnline]

35 minutes ago, NightSky said:

 

Im not a troll or a liar. Im stating very basic knowledge to anyone who works with websites.

 

I have sent you a PM with details of how to easily fix the vulnerability on the website ????

 

 

 

Email received and try http on site... you will be redirected to https... site has SSL. 

We are using another method.

[NightSky]

26 minutes ago, Isaanlawyers said:

Email received and try http on site... you will be redirected to https... site has SSL. 

We are using another method.

I did and there is a vulnerability which is why I sent you details of how to fix it.

[ThaiLawOnline]

59 minutes ago, NightSky said:

I did and there is a vulnerability which is why I sent you details of how to fix it.

I replied to you and you still didn't access the SQL database, did you?  ????

I do not worry too much about that. I worry about Richard Barrow.

 

https://www.facebook.com/149529535060922/posts/3413425315337978/

[wisperone]

On 8/8/2019 at 1:39 AM, Isaanlawyers said:

 

A) there is a large proportion of workers from Cambodia, Laos and Burma. Something like 3 million in the country. And often, they do not respect the rules and regulations.

In a meeting with Cambodian's, Laotians, and Burmese, he stated....

A) there is a large proportion of farangs. Something like 3 million in the country. And often, they do not respect the rules and regulations.

 

[lkv]

On 8/8/2019 at 8:39 AM, Isaanlawyers said:

On 15th August, the FCC is planning a panel on TM30 and immigration rules. Foreign journalist will be invited and the subject might hit the news again. We were told that if the FCC wants an immigration officer there, they need to write a letter to immigration. I should be there if this panel is still happening.

So this is on the 15th of August you were saying, and Richard gets his result on the 17th? On an extension application that was under consideration for a month and now has been put under consideration for one more week because "the result has not come from Bangkok yet".

 

But he got friendly Police at his work place that just wanted to say hello, make sure all is good?

 

Interesting timing. Probably just a coincidence though...

Edited August 9, 2019 by lkv

[schlemmi]

5 hours ago, Maestro said:

 

I have seen it called the Civil Registration Act in English but have been unable to find an English translation of this law. The Thai text is here:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1ZsiihhtkjhLCf-j4kS04XUxOx9N-z5JN

Yes, this the act about the housebook etc...

And it is the act refered to by art.4 of the immigration act too.

 

On the 2nd page at line number 10 you will find the definition for housemaster. The line starts with "เจ้าบ้าน"....

 

Please compare it with thai version of art.38 of the immigration act.

Edited August 10, 2019 by schlemmi
typo

[GeorgeCross]

i've stopped travelling around thailand because of this nonsense if they want my tourist dollars to be "spread around" as per TAT then they'll have to make it easier for me to do that, not harder.

 

till then, my fridge is stocked & pool is warm

 

 

[jacko45k]

20 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

When the location you are staying (be it a Hotel, guesthouse or friend's place) does not ask for your passport, they will not be able to do the TM-30 reporting.  Which means you do not have to do any TM-30 reporting on your return home too, because it will not be known that you departed/returned.

I find they usually ask for something, and one hotel recently said they wanted to see my passport specifically. If you supply a drivers licence, the passport number is on it and they can register you for TM30 purposes. If with a TGF get her to check in!

[thailand49]

I myself like others appreciate your affords, what I got from your statements from the meeting is why things are so confusing! 

In today era with the technology available is why the head Immigration guy currently whatever they want to label themselves  " big or small " can't seem to get every Head immigration officer together and explain the rules and get everyone on the same page. It really is that simple!  1 plus 1 should equal 2. 

This statement my opinion and I understand the slow and lost of face issue even meet with a secondary panel member in Korat? The way the government is set up here in my opinion the head person has no say outside their own province regarding this issue they stand together for a good photo op but thereafter they go back doing what they want in their own province.  Here either you start at the top or one is just spinning their wheels and frustrating themselves.

This reason alone is why they have this problem and so many others problems Thai government officials can't seem to simply fix at times fixing them would mean they wouldn't feel so important or needed. 

[ubonjoe]

6 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

I find they usually ask for something, and one hotel recently said they wanted to see my passport specifically. If you supply a drivers licence, the passport number is on it and they can register you for TM30 purposes. If with a TGF get her to check in!

A passport number is not enough for a hotel to do a online report or even complete a TM30 form.

It requires your TM6 number, date of entry and etc.

[brianthainess]

On 8/8/2019 at 3:10 PM, Isaanlawyers said:

And Todd Daniels just informed me that there will ne another meeting tonight....

Dress code : Business Smart ,Would it be ok to wear a yellow silk shirt/jacket ?

[jacko45k]

8 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

A passport number is not enough for a hotel to do a online report or even complete a TM30 form.

It requires your TM6 number, date of entry and etc.

Well I know I have used only my drivers licence and can hence assume they did not register me then. 

[brianthainess]

Just now, jacko45k said:

Well I know I have used only my drivers licence and can hence assume they did not register me then. 

last night i have checked in to a Large Hotel with no I D at all coool

[Peterw42]

I think this petition etc is being presented to the wrong people. It should be directed to Thai tourism. If they know the rules are affecting tourism, they would go in to bat on our behalf. Just give tourism the ammunition and they will fight the fight. Tourism dollars trumps immigration bureaucracy any day.

Long stay expats and their spending gets counted in tourist numbers.

[Ketyo]

The TM30 is supported by the Thai government to control the Chinese invasion that has just begun.  These people are unruly and will take over given half a chance rather than integrate. See how Cambodia, Laos and Philippines are suffering. Westerners are just caught in the net. But, because of their arrogance and self-centred sense of superiority, believe they are being targeted.

[Max69xl]

When you leave Thailand and return later, you will get a new TM6 Departure Card with a new number. The TM6 number is connected to the TM30-report. That's why we need to submit another TM30 even if we are staying at the same address. That's an easy fix if Immigration is up to it. The easiest, would be a way to just report the new number at the Immigration office,either to the TM30-desk or to the 90-days report desk. Then we would never submit the TM30 again.

In Korat and Chonburi (maybe even other provinces) you can leave the province and come back without submitting a new TM30. It could be the same when we leave the country if it was possible to report the new TM6 number.