Latest TM30 word from Bkk Imm, 8/8/19

[Salerno]

3 minutes ago, PaceArrow said:

Absolutely ridiculous, why don't they just admit it, they don't want to trust any (Western) Foreigners any longer.

Get over yourself, the law applies to any non-Thai not just western. Guess what, we're not the big bosses any more.

[Max69xl]

2 minutes ago, PaceArrow said:

Absolutely ridiculous, why don't they just admit it, they don't want to trust any (Western) Foreigners any longer.  No thanks to a very small minority that come here for a short while or live over here for a short while stirring up trouble for the rest of the long term law abiding Foreigners. What's going to be next ankle bracelets to monitor your every movement? This is starting to feel like being in my old Basic Training days, you can only leave to go anywhere by signing out and signing in so your accounted for!!! Nuts, these people are becoming nuttier than fruitcakes!!!!! When are they going to realize, this only causes more good people to leave?? WOW!!!

The TM30-reporting by hotels and official guesthouses has been in use for many many years, it's not a secret. Don't you think the Vietnamese government are keeping a tab on visitors?

[Curt1591]

It would seem to be that these "bad guys" would be staying here under something other than a long term visa. But, if they are "bad guys", and they stay here long term, these "bad guys" should be known by now.

Most of "Westerners" are used to the concept of "innocent until proven guilty". Unfortunately, in Thailand, we are all suspect, all the time.

Sadly, the West is slowly developing this same mindset.

[jethro69]

It will surely promote domestic travel.

[phkauf]

In my situation, I rent from a Thai. I travel frequently, so when i come back to BKK I will provide her with my info. She is then responsible for filing the TM30 on me or she gets the fine, correct? 

Now I can see how this will become  burden for her and many other Thai landlords. I can envision Thais not wanting to rent to foreigners just to avoid this problem, but then they will likely get a lower rental rate. 

People on this forum are missing the big picture - any change of this policy will have to come from pressure from the Thai people now burdened with it. The Thai Authorities will respond to their complaints a hell of lot faster than to those from foreigners. 

Also does anyone have definitive proof that the system actually works - meaning if I skip a TM30 report will they even know. For example, I live in BKK and go to Chiang Mai and don't report when I get back. But then two weeks later I go to Singapore and file a TM30 with my new TM6 card. Will they even catch the gap in reporting? My money is no way!

[Okis]

20 hours ago, DaRoadrunner said:

Racism. Farangs are being persecuted. It has become a Police state. Do they think I'm gonna waste my time filing a TM 30 while on a weekend break?

 

Why is the Thai Govt doing this? Are they afraid we might take over the country?

 

Maybe they might take notice if we all refused to comply? Though I can't see the Farang community having the balls to stand together.

 

The Conservative elite see westerners as a threat because they are getting scared of westerners mixing/influencing thai's. One of of the biggest party's in the election have existed for barely a year and they accordingly to the manipulation of numbers and election laws came on 3rd place so in reality they became the 2nd largest party. The party is progressive and have Japan, South Korea, Taiwan and western countries as rolemodels for how Thailand should look like in the future, so a huge threat to the dinosaurs in Bangkok. 

[Max69xl]

1 minute ago, Salerno said:

Get over yourself, the law applies to any non-Thai not just western. Guess what, we're not the big bosses any more.

Moneywise we still are. A Chinese tourist only gets 15 days Visa on Arrival at the airport,and they don't spend a lot of money in bars and restaurants. Same with tourists from India, they are not big spenders either.

[JohnnyBKK]

2 minutes ago, phkauf said:

In my situation, I rent from a Thai. I travel frequently, so when i come back to BKK I will provide her with my info. She is then responsible for filing the TM30 on me or she gets the fine, correct? 

Now I can see how this will become  burden for her and many other Thai landlords. I can envision Thais not wanting to rent to foreigners just to avoid this problem, but then they will likely get a lower rental rate. 

People on this forum are missing the big picture - any change of this policy will have to come from pressure from the Thai people now burdened with it. The Thai Authorities will respond to their complaints a hell of lot faster than to those from foreigners. 

Also does anyone have definitive proof that the system actually works - meaning if I skip a TM30 report will they even know. For example, I live in BKK and go to Chiang Mai and don't report when I get back. But then two weeks later I go to Singapore and file a TM30 with my new TM6 card. Will they even catch the gap in reporting? My money is no way!

Only the last tm30 stays on file in the database. So if you do a tm30 even if you skipped 100 of them you are fine.

[Mavideol]

freedom (sarcasm intended) of movement they call it..... next to be implanted, TM24H when going to take a leak and back in other words ''prison'' 

[Curt1591]

In order to make things more convenient, maybe they could issue ankle bracelets at the ports of entry. Maybe embed a chip?

[jethro69]

3 minutes ago, phkauf said:

In my situation, I rent from a Thai. I travel frequently, so when i come back to BKK I will provide her with my info. She is then responsible for filing the TM30 on me or she gets the fine, correct? 

Now I can see how this will become  burden for her and many other Thai landlords. I can envision Thais not wanting to rent to foreigners just to avoid this problem, but then they will likely get a lower rental rate. 

People on this forum are missing the big picture - any change of this policy will have to come from pressure from the Thai people now burdened with it. The Thai Authorities will respond to their complaints a hell of lot faster than to those from foreigners. 

Also does anyone have definitive proof that the system actually works - meaning if I skip a TM30 report will they even know. For example, I live in BKK and go to Chiang Mai and don't report when I get back. But then two weeks later I go to Singapore and file a TM30 with my new TM6 card. Will they even catch the gap in reporting? My money is no way!

Well, I skipped a few, even when going to Lao for an afternoon of cheap booze. Never a mention about a skipped TM30, but then, I don't have to do the 90's or extensions or anything else what they could use for pressure.

Funny thing, the local immigration office told a friend that's not necessary to fill the TM30 when just an overnight in the next larger city. That was less than 2 weeks ago.

[Max69xl]

3 minutes ago, Curt1591 said:

It would seem to be that these "bad guys" would be staying here under something other than a long term visa. But, if they are "bad guys", and they stay here long term, these "bad guys" should be known by now.

Most of "Westerners" are used to the concept of "innocent until proven guilty". Unfortunately, in Thailand, we are all suspect, all the time.

Sadly, the West is slowly developing this same mindset.

I don't think the bad guys submit a TM30. And if they have a criminal record, they can't apply for Long Stay Visa O-A. And the requirements are quite tough even for a "bad guy". I am not talking about the 800k in the bank. Immigration here is a bit naive. If they are chasing bad guys,the TM30 is not the way to go. 

[Salerno]

3 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

Moneywise we still are. A Chinese tourist only gets 15 days Visa on Arrival at the airport,and they don't spend a lot of money in bars and restaurants. Same with tourists from India, they are not big spenders either.

That old stereotype is changing rapidly. The 15 days is a furphy as more independent visitors with visas start travelling, as is spending money in "bars and restaurants" plenty other places for them to spend money. 

[Max69xl]

6 minutes ago, JohnnyBKK said:

Only the last tm30 stays on file in the database. So if you do a tm30 even if you skipped 100 of them you are fine.

And the TM6 is not same as a TM30.

[Jimdandy]

59 minutes ago, Salerno said:

Here you go: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=th.go.immigration.section38&hl=en_US (link to TM6 and 90 day reporting apps on the right of the page).

 

Great

[Chicken George]

Tag me now! Just dont let the wife see it..????

[zaZa9]

23 hours ago, ukrules said:

 "There is only one sensible way forward and that's to make reporting your address very easy and online."

 

Yes ...then you could pretend you are at home all day every day while  you are actually at your giks massage shop in  Bulilam ...555

Edited August 10, 2019 by zaZa9

[DrJack54]

34 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

The TM30-reporting by hotels and official guesthouses has been in use for many many years, it's not a secret. Don't you think the Vietnamese government are keeping a tab on visitors?

You keep upping your weird posts. I go to Saigon every 2 weeks. Doing that on 3 month multi entry. I stay same hotel last 6 years. Have never taken my passport after I was a "regular". Seriously how long you been in Asia.

Might add..post this from koh Samet stay same place many yr. I hand over 7,500 for 5 nights and grab key. No passport tm6 nothing.

On way back bkk I stay airbnb pattaya LK metro. Same deal.

Edited August 10, 2019 by DrJack54

[Lovethailandelite]

21 minutes ago, JohnnyBKK said:

Only the last tm30 stays on file in the database. So if you do a tm30 even if you skipped 100 of them you are fine.

Wrong. Every entry and exit from Thailand is on file along with every single TM30 that has been reported

[MartinKal]

What is the reasoning behind TM30?

[verticalift]

Employed as a pilot based overseas, I’ve lived in Phuket for over the past 20 years when not at work. Building my retirement home on the island, I have the Yellow Tambian Baan, with my name in it. I also have the Thai I.D. “Pink Card”. Having spent no less than $2 million USD in Thailand over the past 20+ years, I now find myself seriously looking to Vietnam or Langkawi. I’d much rather give my hard earned dollars to a country that will at least make me feel welcome.

Bye Bye.....

[Shaunduhpostman]

There must still be a good number of foreigners staying in Bangkok. According to a recent report on the World Population Review website, for whatever it is worth, these are the estimated numbers of foreigners resident in Bangkok by nationality:

 

• Japanese: 82,000
• Chinese: 56,000
• Other Asian countries: 117,000
• European: 48,000
• Americas: 24,000
• Australians: 5,300
• Africans: 3,000
• Burmese: 303,000
• Cambodians: 64,000
• Lao: 18,000
•  

That adds up to 720,300 people that Chaeng Wattana should consider will be creating extra paper work and coming in to stand in their queues. You have to wonder if Chaeng Wattana Immigration has considered how this will impact their work loads and the queues, or if perhaps this is some kind of face saving way to tell the world we don't want to allow foreigners to stay in the country at all anymore because they make a mess of the immigration system by overburdening it. But If you run the whole scenario through a series of rough guesstimates you can see pretty clearly it is quite a commitment if indeed they want to commit to the TM30s and still allow foreigners to stay.

 

If immigration had to spend an average of an extra two minutes (yes I know maybe that is generous and it may be more like 5 minutes) on each foreigner leaving Bangkok and filing paper work to  come back once a year that would mean 1,440,600 extra minutes per year of work or 24,010 extra hours per year.  Assuming they are open for work 240 days of the year (365 days minus 104 Saturdays and Sundays minus 21 days of holiday) that's 100 hours per day being added to immigration's work load. If staff work the same number of hours as their offices are open, 7 hours, they would need 14 people to deal with the load assuming they would assign 14 people to do nothing else but process TM30 applicants, which probably wouldn't be happening. So, assuming staff spend a quarter of their day dealing with the TM30s and applicants, you would need 56 people on staff to be able to take that on.

 

Also, if they don't make an online system fuctional they would be looking at 3,000 people per day extra coming into the office to file assuming that there are 720,000 foreigners in Bangkok who have to file once per year divided by 240 work days. Something tells me it will take some time before they get the online system so that it functions reliably 24/7 365 days a year. Even if only 1/3 file in person, 1000 extra people per day is a lot. And of course there would be days when many would show up to file such as after national holidays and you could see 10,000 people showing up to file in one day if online systems were down.

 

I'd say the chances are good that they will drop this after not too long, it doesn't seem to me if can be practically done. You have to wonder why it was dropped a long time ago, it probably didn't make them enough money to make it worth it. But perhaps the chaos creation is the whole idea, to drive people out for whatever reason, to have a Burmese style SLORC totalitarian system nor whatever it is the democratically elected junta has in mind.

[Salerno]

5 minutes ago, MartinKal said:

What is the reasoning behind TM30?

To know where a foreigner is staying at any given time.

[DrJack54]

26 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

And the TM6 is not same as a TM30.

Please stop. The person you tried to correct is basically stating that if your going to imm for some reason, then your latest tm30 need reflect your latest tm6. 

[MartinKal]

6 minutes ago, Shaunduhpostman said:

There must still be a good number of foreigners staying in Bangkok. According to a recent report on the World Population Review website, for whatever it is worth, these are the estimated numbers of foreigners resident in Bangkok by nationality:

 

• Japanese: 82,000
• Chinese: 56,000
• Other Asian countries: 117,000
• European: 48,000
• Americas: 24,000
• Australians: 5,300
• Africans: 3,000
• Burmese: 303,000
• Cambodians: 64,000
• Lao: 18,000
•  

That adds up to 720,300 people that Chaeng Wattana should consider will be creating extra paper work and coming in to stand in their queues. You have to wonder if Chaeng Wattana Immigration has considered how this will impact their work loads and the queues, or if perhaps this is some kind of face saving way to tell the world we don't want to allow foreigners to stay in the country at all anymore because they make a mess of the immigration system by overburdening it. But If you run the whole scenario through a series of rough guesstimates you can see pretty clearly it is quite a commitment if indeed they want to commit to the TM30s and still allow foreigners to stay.

 

If immigration had to spend an average of an extra two minutes (yes I know maybe that is generous and it may be more like 5 minutes) on each foreigner leaving Bangkok and filing paper work to  come back once a year that would mean 1,440,600 extra minutes per year of work or 24,010 extra hours per year.  Assuming they are open for work 240 days of the year (365 days minus 104 Saturdays and Sundays minus 21 days of holiday) that's 100 hours per day being added to immigration's work load. If staff work the same number of hours as their offices are open, 7 hours, they would need 14 people to deal with the load assuming they would assign 14 people to do nothing else but process TM30 applicants, which probably wouldn't be happening. So, assuming staff spend a quarter of their day dealing with the TM30s and applicants, you would need 56 people on staff to be able to take that on.

 

Also, if they don't make an online system fuctional they would be looking at 3,000 people per day extra coming into the office to file assuming that there are 720,000 foreigners in Bangkok who have to file once per year divided by 240 work days. Something tells me it will take some time before they get the online system so that it functions reliably 24/7 365 days a year. Even if only 1/3 file in person, 1000 extra people per day is a lot. And of course there would be days when many would show up to file such as after national holidays and you could see 10,000 people showing up to file in one day if online systems were down.

 

I'd say the chances are good that they will drop this after not too long, it doesn't seem to me if can be practically done. You have to wonder why it was dropped a long time ago, it probably didn't make them enough money to make it worth it. But perhaps the chaos creation is the whole idea, to drive people out for whatever reason, to have a Burmese style SLORC totalitarian system nor whatever it is the democratically elected junta has in mind.

Why would the govt want to drive out foreign residents?

 

Has the government ever explained the importance to it of tm30 reporting?

 

What is the reference for the recent report on the World Population Review website? As far as I can work out, there are around 200,000 westerners resident in Thailand.  We can talk about the extra stuff required to process these foreigners, and the New Deal announced budget provides for an increase in Civil Service, but what is the strategic purpose of this?

[MartinKal]

6 minutes ago, Salerno said:

To know where a foreigner is staying at any given time.

Yes sure. But why would the government want to keep close tabs on foreigners any more than on its own passport holders?

[Matzzon]

50 minutes ago, chrissables said:

Isn't it incompetent to start enforcing the TM30 before the online reporting is working 100%?

 

Isn't it incompetent to have different provinces applying the law differently?

No, it´s not incompentent. What´s both incompetent and dumb, is coming to a country and wine over all the small things that happens. Tired of the ever wining and crying foul greater part of the expat community in Thailand. That´s why I live far out in the country with only Thai people around me. That´s why I came to this country, and not sitting with my fellow countrymen day out and day in drinking beer and don´t understand anything about the place they chosed to settle down.

Regarding the different interpretations of the law. There is nothing at all incompentent with that. That´s how it has been working in this country for hundreds of years. Ok, it´s different from the countries most of us are born in, but that does not make it wrong. The first thing you must have when settle in a foreign country with totally different values and culture is acceptance. That´s also what´s a BIG lack of in the greater part of the expat community in Thailand.

Edited August 10, 2019 by Matzzon

[DrJack54]

1 hour ago, Max69xl said:

No,you submit a TM28 when officially changing address and moving to another province,and a TM30. Just changing a condo in for example Pattaya,then you just need to submit a new TM30 to get the slip to keep in the passport. I have done it myself.

Depends on which imm office you deal with. Jomtien for example does not require tm30.

[Duck J Butters]

I don't get what the big deal is. We are all technically illegals here. They are letting us stay here as guests. And that is smart of them, because we spend a lot of money in Thailand ( I do at least ). At the same time, I'm under no illusion that I'm anything more than a guest in this country and feel extremely fortunate that I've been allowed to live here while "legally" saving millions of dollars in US taxes. I'm very happy to comply with whatever rules the Thai government deems necessary. I'm a guest. I have no rights. I'm fine with that. Totally fine given all the financial bennies that living in Thailand provides a US citizen.

 

At least the Thais aren't running around and rounding us up in trucks and giving us the boot as they are doing in America ( although I won't lie, I 100% agree with ICEs position on illegals in the US ). If things get bad enough here in Thailand and it's clear that they don't want our US dollars, Russia is more than happy to take Americans on a 3 year tourist visa which is very very easy to renew. As is Vietnam and many, many other countries that I wouldn't mind living in. Russia is a great place to live actually ( very fun, many beautiful women ). I'm not worried at all though. Just comply with the rules and you'll be fine. It's not a big deal.

[Salerno]

1 minute ago, MartinKal said:

Yes sure. But why would the government want to keep close tabs on foreigners any more than on its own passport holders?

Why not?

 

How about you just spit it out rather than be so cryptic, given your last couple of posts you obviously have a theory.