Why the Retired Expat Exodus to Vietnam seems very real

[Scrubtastic]

I'd do my due diligence before moving to Vietnam, as it is an even less developed country than Thailand that has only recently begun getting billions in foreign $$ a few years ago. Scammers don't want to scam you for 50% or 100%, they want 10,000%. "Friends" and "employees" often turn out to be get-rich-quick wannabes. Rent prices are skyrocketing. Medical is still third-world so expats and "rich enough" locals have to go to Thailand, Taiwan, Hong Kong when they are really sick, if they're not dead by then. No mass transit. Dirtier streets than Thailand. More scooters than even Thailand. Same dirty air from domestic and Chinese factories. Same corrupt, authoritarian government with different rules. If you can mitigate these risks I guess you'd be fine, but just do your research and planning first.

[garyk]

All this talk about putting 800K in the bank or not being able to afford to live here is the biggest crock I have ever herd of in my life. It has nothing to do what so ever with if you can afford to live in Thailand!  It is a money grab plain and simple.

Other countries let you show proof of having 800K or what ever in you bank. And most have a 6 month seasoning period. You show your bank statements and show 30K or so US dollars, and show a minimum monthly amount coming into your account and they issue a retirement visa. It has to be re-done every few years then you receive a residency visa.

Countries that really want expats know if you have that kind of money it will be spent period. On the people, merchandise. It will greatly help the local economy period.

Thailand doesn't care what so ever anymore if you help the local economy. The banks and Government only want money seasoned from outside of Thailand coming into their country. 

I mean they can do what ever they want to do, it is their country. But, for foreigners to say it is because expats have abused the system and actually condone this is extremely ignorant IMHO.

Sure it will dive out some, and others ( the majority of the expats looking for a place to hang their hat will see it as a joke ). 

It will cost them millions in the local economy. It is already a joke to most expats looking for a place to retire.  

Edited September 1, 2019 by garyk

[1FinickyOne]

10 minutes ago, garyk said:

it is their country

enough said.. whining that it is a different culture, language with different rules and ways of looking at things seems a waste of time... do expats in Siberia complain that it is cold?

[DannyCarlton]

1 minute ago, kenk24 said:

do expats in Siberia complain that it is cold?

I'm sure that they do. Just log on to Siberia Visa and see how many threads there are on the cold weather.

[1FinickyOne]

Just now, DannyCarlton said:

I'm sure that they do. Just log on to Siberia Visa and see how many threads there are on the cold weather.

and how is it working out for them? 

[DannyCarlton]

7 minutes ago, kenk24 said:

and how is it working out for them? 

Many of them are threatening to leave and return to their own countries....but rarely do. They have those crazy Siberian girls to keep them warm at night.

 

                                                

 

 

Edited September 1, 2019 by DannyCarlton

[trd]

42 baht to the pound, the lowest it has ever been??? I guess the writer of the article was not around in the early 1980's !!

But you would have still been better off then you are now because it would have cost you 500 Baht to fill up your shopping trolley then whereas now it costs 3,000 Baht. 

 

 

[ivor bigun]

Switch to a Marriage Extension as soon as you can;  it's nowhere near as daunting as some people will have you believe.   I've been on one for 12 years, renewed last week , all done in 25 minutes.

Can you say where you did it and what paperwork was needed?

Sent from my SM-A720F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[FigaroLucowski]

Nobody knows why immigration continues to tighten the screws & is enforcing TM30, except the government and immigration, and I wonder if the clamp-down was much more than a knee jerk reaction. I like the Thai people and distrust the government, I don't love it here though. I have lived here for 20 years, I help many Thai people in need, I have never been arrested, or failed to meet immigration requirements, regardless I'm nothing more than a lump of sh!t in the eyes of the government and at this point, considering my age and situation, I not going to move, I honestly think, those who find a way to stay may not be the happy ones, but they certainly are the strong ones. 

Edited September 1, 2019 by FigaroLucowski

[Old Croc]

15 hours ago, khaowong1 said:

Talk about it any way you like, Vietnam is still a communist country.  Things could go wrong there in a heart beat. 

As long as you keep out of local politics most communist states seem to be a lot more stable these days than many of the rising fascist states in the west.

[oznomad]

14 hours ago, Ron jeremy said:

These people are using dodgy agents and setting up fake businesses to get their visas.

NOT a problem when going about it the CORRECT way. 

I can post links to people that have used the 3 month multi entry for 10 years without a problem, yes 10 years.

my friend has just returned from his yearly visa run, goes about it the CORRECT way, and has never had a problem. Those that tried to scam their way thru Thai immigration are not finding it any easier to SCAM their way they viet immigration.

i can provide a reputable agent to help anyone to go about the CORRECT and LEGAL way to get a yearly visa.

send me a PM. 

I am just the messenger, but his info is fresh - hot off the press. He doesnt use dodgy agents.

[Old Croc]

23 hours ago, gearbox said:

Inevitably the prices will rise there too. If anyone is making plans for Vietnam longer than 5 years and factoring today's prices, they are fooling themselves.

I can't understand why anyone would make plans to migrate to another country with a barely sufficient, stagnant income and expect prices there to stay the same for any period, let alone 5 years. Inflation is a fact of life, if your income doesn't move with it, you need to have reserves to cover all contingencies. 

Perhaps that's part of the reason so many here are in financial difficulty now. They factored in just the basic amount needed and didn't allow for rising costs (or never had the money in the first place and hoped lying about it would last forever!).

Of course, the ever increasing officious requirements in the name of "national security" is a good reason to get out for many. This country seems to be in the grip of a military government with aspirations of becoming a full blown dictatorship.  The stacking of the senate and the guy's refusal to take the constitutional oath of office are good indicators.

[robsamui]

On 8/31/2019 at 10:45 AM, Seismic said:

42 baht to the pound, the lowest it has ever been??? I guess the writer of the article was not around in the early 1980's !!

The baht hovered at 25 to the $ and 36 to the £ for many years, until the Thai currency collapsed in 1998.

[Old Croc]

A mate is visiting Viet (Danang) right now. Sent an email which may give a few thoughts for those thinking of moving there.

Means little to me, but it may be an indicator for some.

 

"Regretably the sheilas here are well behaved and polite. So many are top shelf material too ????. 

Food here isn’t bad but not as good as your neck of the woods. 

Living costs here are definitely lower,  but the price of land here in Danang is ridiculously high. 

The hotel I got here is 100 from the main beach, 186aud for 6 nights and I got an apartment room with sea views." 

 

 

He also mentioned, in less than glowing terms, the preponderance of tourists from a neighboring country.

 

 

Edited September 1, 2019 by Old Croc

[unblocktheplanet]

On 8/31/2019 at 12:14 PM, trainman34014 said:

Switch to a Marriage Extension as soon as you can;  it's nowhere near as daunting as some people will have you believe.   I've been on one for 12 years, renewed last week , all done in 25 minutes.

Well, yes. 400k vs 800k but one is in limbo for 30 days & must return to hear the result. Whinging? Yes! 

[tabarin]

I consider anyone crazy to move here, at this stage (visa and forex wise), if not already having history etc. 
For those who know the ways, potentially also have a house or condo (with wife), it is still really doable (by cutting off many party and eating out nights).

Guess the reality and truth is that most people are stuck here, if they really could choose and it would be worth the time they think to have left in life, they would / will.
I personally still live really cheap and comfortable here, but that is only because of having entered the family life.

It would nowhere close to be fun at all, when being a single (retired) person, as I would want to get out very often, eat out / drink out to stay happy and social.
Even it does not have to be a crazy lot of money, it would still add on significantly, there would be little reward for living here all year without that or a family.

Guess I was unexpectedly, a very lucky guy (being 30+ years too young for retirement), to have gotten a baby.
Else my days were counted too, would never pay for the Elite visa, even I can. And still, it is a nightmare to get the visa done, even having a baby + married.

Might also explain while most of all younger guys gone as sun after the snow. Only meeting short term / newbs now, who then leave 6 months later.
Friends from abroad who finally head in direction of SEA even skipped Thailand entirely, mostly focused on Bali, Cambodia, Vietnam.

No choice other than getting rich, for both options, both to go back to Europe or stay here.
I am no longer lying to myself, it is clear where the world is going, rich or poor.

Edited September 1, 2019 by tabarin

[gunderhill]

On 8/31/2019 at 10:20 AM, Just1Voice said:

But with an income more than double needed for retirement here, it is a comfortable “stuck”.

For  now, they could  double  that requirement at anytime, that's a  real problem for many, they should Grandfather in old timers, but generally don't.

I could stretch to 4  times  current and base  that on my age and life expectancy.

Other issues would be compulsory and useless insurance for health, then they could add you MUST only bring the money in EVERY year and NOT  just keep it permanently lodged in a bank, ie  you must spend it ie the 400-800k all ifs and an's  but I rule nothing out, Plan B is  always there at least until I'm too senile to care but even my own govt can and DO change their  rules, no one has any care for "expats"  yet the world is  filling up with more and more with the ease of travel.

[sunnyboy2018]

12 hours ago, Destiny1990 said:

He clearly has explained that !

No. He has described feelings but not given one example. My take is that this forum acts as an echo chamber of negativity often amplifies by pessimists, thai haters, naysayers and haters. This forum just lets people stir things up often with misleading or inaccurate information. Why have I never been asked for a TM30? Why  have i never been asked to report after arriving back in the country or back in the province?

[tabarin]

4 minutes ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

No. He has described feelings but not given one example. My take is that this forum acts as an echo chamber of negativity often amplifies by pessimists, thai haters, naysayers and haters. This forum just lets people stir things up often with misleading or inaccurate information. Why have I never been asked for a TM30? Why  have i never been asked to report after arriving back in the country or back in the province?

Then you are the rare exception that soon will find out this is truth. Got nothing to do with pessimism, thai bashing or whatsoever. 
Sure there are enough people who still keep up the illusion, at the end there are even new arrivals opening up tourism business in CM LOL.

Edited September 1, 2019 by tabarin

[sunnyboy2018]

7 hours ago, garyk said:

All this talk about putting 800K in the bank or not being able to afford to live here is the biggest crock I have ever herd of in my life. It has nothing to do what so ever with if you can afford to live in Thailand!  It is a money grab plain and simple.

Other countries let you show proof of having 800K or what ever in you bank. And most have a 6 month seasoning period. You show your bank statements and show 30K or so US dollars, and show a minimum monthly amount coming into your account and they issue a retirement visa. It has to be re-done every few years then you receive a residency visa.

Countries that really want expats know if you have that kind of money it will be spent period. On the people, merchandise. It will greatly help the local economy period.

Thailand doesn't care what so ever anymore if you help the local economy. The banks and Government only want money seasoned from outside of Thailand coming into their country. 

I mean they can do what ever they want to do, it is their country. But, for foreigners to say it is because expats have abused the system and actually condone this is extremely ignorant IMHO.

Sure it will dive out some, and others ( the majority of the expats looking for a place to hang their hat will see it as a joke ). 

It will cost them millions in the local economy. It is already a joke to most expats looking for a place to retire.  

The artificial inward flow of western currency inflates their reserves,  and ironically inflates the Thai baht!

[trainman34014]

3 hours ago, unblocktheplanet said:

Well, yes. 400k vs 800k but one is in limbo for 30 days & must return to hear the result. Whinging? Yes! 

You just go back to get your final stamp, done in 5 minutes.

[daveAustin]

Indeed, grass is greener 'n all that. I'd find the lesser services and esp crime (is it really that bad?) concerning. If one has a family and is struggling, looking homeward bound is the surely the only viable option? If you're single, you have the luxury of choice, but I would keep on eye on the political situation and mood on the ground... and rent rent rent! 

 

As for Thailand, don't think we'll be seeing the days of old again. It is clear where the powers that be want to take it... quiet ordered streets, sterile, expensive, and hard for outsiders (expect 1M for retirement ext' etc).

[Ron jeremy]

18 hours ago, georgegeorgia said:

Is that something to be proud of ...paid your way out of Driving whilst drunk ?

 

so you have no respect for others that innocent people you could have killed or injured?

 

Certainly not something to be proud of , and i bet your not young either

 

Paid his way out of 3 DUI charges, this is why he loves Thailand?

and another stating that he must have a soi cowboy or nana to survive.

perhaps these types of retirees , tourists have been the ones reflecting a negative image on Thailand for decades.

 Perhaps Thailand IS really better off without such people?

cant say I blame the dictators for cleaning house of undesirables for the new demographic of tourist.

[sanemax]

6 hours ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

No. He has described feelings but not given one example. My take is that this forum acts as an echo chamber of negativity often amplifies by pessimists, thai haters, naysayers and haters. This forum just lets people stir things up often with misleading or inaccurate information. Why have I never been asked for a TM30? Why  have i never been asked to report after arriving back in the country or back in the province?

You are in for a big fine , when the authorities realise you haven't been doing your TM30 , although you may be lucky and your local authority isnt too bothered about it 

[amykat]

On 8/31/2019 at 10:18 AM, garyk said:

Thailand is a Military run country that is going by the Chinese philosophy of, screw all when you can.

I have a retirement visa in Thailand. Last Feb. I renewed it. March I left. 

The retirement rules are nothing short of ridiculous. 

I have been exploring Mexico for the last few months and I can tell you without a doubt it beats Thailand in every way by leaps and bounds. 

Even my home in Texas is a far cry better than the Air pollution and <deleted>ty pollution Thailand has. It is one of the nastiest places I have ever visited. I lived there for 10 years but enough is enough. 

Honestly if not for my 10 year Thai GF I would off left years ago. I finally told her it was not working for me and left.

Women there are a dime a dozen, which is nice! But, the government has even screwed that up. 

Thailand is a <deleted> hole plain and simple.

 

I think I have been seeing you on Mexico or birder sites ....I am also looking at Mexico.  You are a birder right??

[elliss]

On 8/31/2019 at 12:21 PM, bkk6060 said:

And how has your home country changed and made it better for you or others?

 

       Good point, i first came to thailand some 18 years ago , 

        it was fantastic , gbp had a good exchange rate , thai money was like monopoly money . 

    Time changes , my home country uk , is down the pan , and now i do not have the life style in thailand , i enjoyed.

      What the future holds , what are the options .

          

Edited September 2, 2019 by elliss

[drbeach]

On 8/31/2019 at 11:11 AM, Bobsuruncle said:

Count me as one of the ones who will be leaving soon. Just need to sell the house and I'll be on the next plane out. I've been here for over 12 years now and back when I first came here, I couldn't say enough good things about Thailand. I have plenty of monthly income to qualify for immigration's requirements so, it's not the money that's the problem for me. It's more the attitude of the Thai government towards us expats. I can't help but feel like I'm being treated like some sort of low life criminal who's trying to scam Thailand. They seem to be sitting around behind closed door meetings trying to come up with new ways to harass us. The government has given me the feeling that they really don't want me living here full time. They just want me to be a wealthy tourist that comes to Thailand and drops loads of cash into their pockets and then leaves within 2 or 3 weeks.

Well, they got part of their wish with me about leaving, but I won't be back as a tourist, ever again. 

Definitely agree with you, but excuse my ignorance as I have been coming here since well before 2007 - what was so good about back then compared to now that made you stay? My impressions are that things are getting worse, but I would be hard pressed to say 2007 was magical compared to now. It was the year after the coup and the following year there was the airport takeover by anti-government protestors (at which time I was no longer here).

[drbeach]

On 9/1/2019 at 9:56 PM, daveAustin said:

Indeed, grass is greener 'n all that. I'd find the lesser services and esp crime (is it really that bad?) concerning. If one has a family and is struggling, looking homeward bound is the surely the only viable option? If you're single, you have the luxury of choice, but I would keep on eye on the political situation and mood on the ground... and rent rent rent! 

 

As for Thailand, don't think we'll be seeing the days of old again. It is clear where the powers that be want to take it... quiet ordered streets, sterile, expensive, and hard for outsiders (expect 1M for retirement ext' etc).

Well there are plenty of places like that already. Singapore for example (although even there things aren't that "sterile or "boring" anymore, at least you can find some beer at any time of day and the clubs there shake the foundations off of anything you can find in Thailand - RCA is just so-so but they probably have to close much earlier than in Singapore nowadays).

 

If I had 1M dollars or Euros for retirement I don't think I'd choose Thailand. Would much rather buy a ranch in the southern USA where I can experience real space and luxury, not a country full of people, roads chocked with traffic and little to no nature left except in some far away border province. Not to mention a country where living spaces are crammed and no one has a dishwasher and even ovens and 2 burners are uncommon.

 

Besides, the cost of living in rural USA is now about the same if not cheaper than in Thailand. Cars of all types are cheaper, as are all kinds of manufactured goods. Food sold at supermarkets is cheaper too, this applies particularly to imported produce.

 

Go to Villa Market with 10 items and you'll spend an absolute fortune - like 2000 or 3000 Baht. What an absolute joke - in a developing country like Thailand, shouldn't everything be cheaper? In America, you can fill your grocery trolley with the same items 2 or 3 times over and spend less than this.

 

About the only things that are cheaper in Thailand nowadays are local wages, hotels and taxis.

[Bobsuruncle]

52 minutes ago, drbeach said:

Definitely agree with you, but excuse my ignorance as I have been coming here since well before 2007 - what was so good about back then compared to now that made you stay? My impressions are that things are getting worse, but I would be hard pressed to say 2007 was magical compared to now. It was the year after the coup and the following year there was the airport takeover by anti-government protestors (at which time I was no longer here).

Back in 2007 when I first arrived I suppose you could say that I was looking through rose colored glasses. Having a young beautiful Thai woman telling me that I was handsome and treating me like I had never been treated before by a woman had a lot to do with how great I was feeling in Thailand. The different culture was new to me and appealing. Although back then, I don't remember ever feeling like immigration hated me being here or having to report when I left the province for 24 hours or hearing the government trying to blame us farang for the financial woes of their hospitals. 

Maybe it was the same back then as it is now and I just didn't see it. But I definitely notice it now.

[Jingthing]

Well there are plenty of places like that already. Singapore for example (although even there things aren't that "sterile or "boring" anymore, at least you can find some beer at any time of day and the clubs there shake the foundations off of anything you can find in Thailand - RCA is just so-so but they probably have to close much earlier than in Singapore nowadays).

 

If I had 1M dollars or Euros for retirement I don't think I'd choose Thailand. Would much rather buy a ranch in the southern USA where I can experience real space and luxury, not a country full of people, roads chocked with traffic and little to no nature left except in some far away border province. Not to mention a country where living spaces are crammed and no one has a dishwasher and even ovens and 2 burners are uncommon.

 

Besides, the cost of living in rural USA is now about the same if not cheaper than in Thailand. Cars of all types are cheaper, as are all kinds of manufactured goods. Food sold at supermarkets is cheaper too, this applies particularly to imported produce.

 

Go to Villa Market with 10 items and you'll spend an absolute fortune - like 2000 or 3000 Baht. What an absolute joke - in a developing country like Thailand, shouldn't everything be cheaper? In America, you can fill your grocery trolley with the same items 2 or 3 times over and spend less than this.

 

About the only things that are cheaper in Thailand nowadays are local wages, hotels and taxis.

Rents in the USA are too darned high!

 

 

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