Brexit: PM Johnson faces mounting legal, political, diplomatic challenges

[rooster59]

Brexit: PM Johnson faces mounting legal, political, diplomatic challenges

Guy Faulconbridge, Gabriela Baczynska
 

FILE PHOTO: Britain's Prime Minister Boris Johnson meets with Prime Minister of Japan Shinzo Abe on day three of the G7 Summit in Biarritz, France, August 26, 2019. Andrew Parsons/Pool via REUTERS

 

LONDON/HELSINKI (Reuters) - Prime Minister Boris Johnson’s Brexit plan was facing mounting legal, political and diplomatic challenges on Friday as Ireland accused Britain of being unreasonable and former British leader John Major sought to stop the suspension of parliament.

 

The ultimate outcome of Britain’s tortuous three-year Brexit crisis remains unclear with options ranging from a frantic departure without an exit deal or a last-minute agreement to an election or referendum that could cancel the whole endeavor.

 

Johnson, the face of the Vote Leave campaign in the 2016 referendum, has promised to lead the United Kingdom out of the European Union in two months with or without a divorce deal, a threat he hopes will convince the bloc to give him the exit deal he wants.

 

In the eye of the Brexit maelstrom, though, Johnson was under mounting pressure: opponents in parliament were plotting to tear up his Brexit plans or topple his government, while his suspension of parliament was under scrutiny in the courts.

 

Johnson’s bid to get the insurance policy for the Irish border changed were bluntly dismissed by Dublin which said London was being totally unreasonable.

 

“Boris Johnson is outlining a very clear and firm position but it is a totally unreasonable position that the EU cannot facilitate and he must know that,” Irish Foreign Minister Simon Coveney said in an interview with Ireland’s Newstalk radio.

 

German Foreign Minister Heiko Maas said Britain should make concrete proposals as soon as possible but that the EU could not imagine reopening the Withdrawal Agreement that Johnson’s predecessor Theresa May agreed with Brussels in November.

 

Britain insisted it had made proposals on the border backstop and that it was “untrue” to suggest it had not.

 

The government said British negotiators would hold twice-weekly talks with EU officials next month in an attempt to rework the Brexit agreement that Britain’s parliament has repeatedly rejected.

 

BREXIT ENSNARED

With just two months until the United Kingdom is due to leave the EU, Johnson’s decision to ask Queen Elizabeth to suspend parliament was under challenge from three separate court proceedings.

 

The queen on Aug. 28 approved Johnson’s order to suspend parliament from as early as Sept. 9 to Oct. 14, a move that ensures parliament would sit for around four days less than it had been expected to.

 

Former Prime Minister John Major, whose 1990-1997 premiership included the 1992 disorderly exit of the pound from the Exchange Rate Mechanism, asked to join one of the proceedings to block Johnson’s order.

 

A Scottish court will hear arguments on Sept. 3, a case brought by campaigner Gina Miller will be heard on Sept. 5 and a Northern Irish court will hear a separate case on Sept. 6.

 

Ultimately, the cases could be combined to go to the Supreme Court - the final court of appeal in the United Kingdom which hears cases of the gravest constitutional importance.

 

“Legal proceedings can be fast-tracked as the judges in the case determine,” Robert Blackburn, professor of constitutional law at King’s College London, told Reuters.

 

“If the case of those bringing the legal proceedings wins, the Supreme Court could quash and/or declare unlawful the Privy Council order authorizing the forthcoming prorogation,” said Blackburn.

 

In parliament, the battle for Brexit was due to begin in earnest on Sept. 3 when lawmakers return from their summer break and will try to either topple the government or force through a law designed to prevent Britain leaving the EU without an exit deal.

 

Writing by Guy Faulconbridge; Editing by Janet Lawrence

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2019-08-31

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[Mavideol]

10 minutes ago, rooster59 said:

“Boris Johnson is outlining a very clear and firm position but it is a totally unreasonable position that the EU cannot facilitate and he must know that,”

totally unreasonable ???  not by his standards as he keeps playing the blaming game

[keith101]

13 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

totally unreasonable ???  not by his standards as he keeps playing the blaming game

The UKs DONALD TRUMP

[vogie]

1 minute ago, keith101 said:

The UKs DONALD TRUMP

Boris is not the problem, Parliament is.

[welovesundaysatspace]

5 minutes ago, vogie said:

Boris is not the problem, Parliament is.

Change your system from a parliamentary representative democracy to autocracy then. 

[Mavideol]

6 minutes ago, vogie said:

Boris is not the problem, Parliament is.

and here we go, what did I say about the blaming game ? 2 posts and game on

[Mavideol]

8 minutes ago, vogie said:

Boris is not the problem, Parliament is.

it's so easy to catch you guys..... always the same !!! " it's not us it's them"

[vogie]

1 minute ago, Mavideol said:

it's so easy to catch you guys..... always the same !!! " it's not us it's them"

Yes when the government passed a bill to allow the electorate to have a vote to determine our destination, and we voted and the government triggered art 50 to leave the EU, thereby making it law. The majority of parliament voted for leaving the EU so if they didn't want to leave the EU they should have not signed art50.

So when you say "it's not us it's them" maybe you should be saying 'it is not you, but us.'

[Mavideol]

4 minutes ago, vogie said:

Yes when the government passed a bill to allow the electorate to have a vote to determine our destination, and we voted and the government triggered art 50 to leave the EU, thereby making it law. The majority of parliament voted for leaving the EU so if they didn't want to leave the EU they should have not signed art50.

So when you say "it's not us it's them" maybe you should be saying 'it is not you, but us.'

that's absolutely not the point, who passed what or who voted what, I am not from the UK thus I couldn't care less, the point (post) is/was about blaming somebody else which you can not stop doing

[Bluespunk]

54 minutes ago, rooster59 said:

Johnson’s bid to get the insurance policy for the Irish border changed were bluntly dismissed by Dublin which said London was being totally unreasonable.

 

“Boris Johnson is outlining a very clear and firm position but it is a totally unreasonable position that the EU cannot facilitate and he must know that,” Irish Foreign Minister Simon Coveney said in an interview with Ireland’s Newstalk radio.

Well said. 

[vogie]

2 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

that's absolutely not the point, who passed what or who voted what, I am not from the UK thus I couldn't care less, the point (post) is/was about blaming somebody else which you can not stop doing

Who is doing the blaming here.....you.

It is very much the point, parliament has reneged on a democratic vote, that is not the fault of Boris.

[stephenterry]

9 minutes ago, vogie said:

Who is doing the blaming here.....you.

It is very much the point, parliament has reneged on a democratic vote, that is not the fault of Boris.

Blame the Tory ERGs then for voting against May's deal.

[phka]

52 minutes ago, keith101 said:

The UKs DONALD TRUMP

Boris Johnson is an American he was born in New York on 19 June 1964 he has an American passport

Maybe he's related to trump, trump pulls his strings for sure

[blazes]

The queen on Aug. 28 approved Johnson’s order to suspend parliament from as early as Sept. 9 to Oct. 14, a move that ensures parliament would sit for around four days less than it had been expected to.

 

Former Prime Minister John Major, whose 1990-1997 premiership included the 1992 disorderly exit of the pound from the Exchange Rate Mechanism, asked to join one of the proceedings to block Johnson’s order.

 

 

All this "outrage" is over a mere four (4) days!!!!!!

 

And John Major, the GREY puppet of Spitting Image, approved a "disorderly exit of the pound from the Exchange Rate Mechanism" [the forerunner of the Euro] did he?  I wonder how many today would have preferred the UK to be now using the Euro?

 

And kudos to the sane Edinburgh judge who refused to block the proroguing of Parliament.

[klauskunkel]

Is he alright? His hair looks a bit green around the roots...

[White Christmas13]

7 minutes ago, klauskunkel said:

Is he alright? His hair looks a bit green around the roots...

and orange

[david555]

10 minutes ago, blazes said:

The queen on Aug. 28 approved Johnson’s order to suspend parliament from as early as Sept. 9 to Oct. 14, a move that ensures parliament would sit for around four days less than it had been expected to.

 

Former Prime Minister John Major, whose 1990-1997 premiership included the 1992 disorderly exit of the pound from the Exchange Rate Mechanism, asked to join one of the proceedings to block Johnson’s order.

 

 

All this "outrage" is over a mere four (4) days!!!!!!

 

And John Major, the GREY puppet of Spitting Image, approved a "disorderly exit of the pound from the Exchange Rate Mechanism" [the forerunner of the Euro] did he?  I wonder how many today would have preferred the UK to be now using the Euro?

 

And kudos to the sane Edinburgh judge who refused to block the proroguing of Parliament.

"All this "outrage" is over a mere four (4) days!!!!!! "

 

If is out of almost no importance by your saying  .....Why even Boris dragged the Queen even in it ….???

If not important 4 days ….Boris  should not done it 

Edited August 31, 2019 by david555

[Pedrogaz]

Personally I back Boris. Someone had to have the cojones to take on the EU. Giving up the no deal option as May did weakened the negotiating position totally and lead to an expensive way to avoid Brexit and be bound by all EU laws. 

Boris has put the EU on notice....forget your 39 billion and forget any deal unless you compromise significantly. If he holds form he will win...but the useless Parliament that has sat on its hands for 3 years doing nothing is one again trying to thwart Johnson's perfectly reasonable negotiating strategy. I hate politics and politicians.

[NanLaew]

55 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

it's so easy to catch you guys..... always the same !!! " it's not us it's them"

To be more specific, it's him!

 

 

He was a major player in ensuring Theresa May stayed on her token Brexit course and he's hell-bent on trying to drive Johnson's ship onto the same dangerous rocks.

Edited August 31, 2019 by NanLaew

[beautifulthailand99]

EU talking of scrapping the October 31st deadline so that will shoot BOJo's fox !!!????

 

‘My information is that Macron no longer holds to that deadline.

‘It was really introduced for his campaign in the European elections to make him sound tough. And none of the other European Commissioners will hold to that October 31 deadline.

‘The Government has two arguments that they want to get across – that it’s a sovereign people against a non-sovereign Parliament, and it’s Britain against Europe.‘Pull the rug from under that by saying it’s not Europe that’s being inflexible, it’s up to Britain now – the deadline can be removed.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7412623/Brown-says-EU-SCRAP-October-31-Brexit-deadline.html

Edited August 31, 2019 by beautifulthailand99

[ThaiBunny]

The Daily Mail - now there's a credible newspaper: "the Daily Mail is read by the wives of the people who run the country" - Jim Hacker, Yes Prime Minister

[beautifulthailand99]

16 minutes ago, ThaiBunny said:

The Daily Mail - now there's a credible newspaper: "the Daily Mail is read by the wives of the people who run the country" - Jim Hacker, Yes Prime Minister

Ok Telegraph headlines then .....so Parliament votes to extend the deadline - no new laws needed or Lords approval and default agreement from EU already assured - voila we have time and I win 2000 baht from Malagateddy.   GOAL.......EU has the keys to the prison !

 

If the EU decided to offer the UK a delay of between nine and 12 months, or even longer, there could be a get-out clause: an understanding that the UK could leave the EU earlier than the specified date if the government managed to get an exit deal passed in Parliament.A long extension could also buy time for either an early UK general election or even another Brexit referendum.

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/08/30/eu-wants-extend-article-50-avoid-no-deal-brexit-eurosceptics/

Edited August 31, 2019 by beautifulthailand99

[Huayrat]

The legal challengers and remoaners will all lose.. Boris has it in the bag.

[david555]

31 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

EU talking of scrapping the October 31st deadline so that will shoot BOJo's fox !!!????

 

‘My information is that Macron no longer holds to that deadline.

‘It was really introduced for his campaign in the European elections to make him sound tough. And none of the other European Commissioners will hold to that October 31 deadline.

‘The Government has two arguments that they want to get across – that it’s a sovereign people against a non-sovereign Parliament, and it’s Britain against Europe.‘Pull the rug from under that by saying it’s not Europe that’s being inflexible, it’s up to Britain now – the deadline can be removed.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7412623/Brown-says-EU-SCRAP-October-31-Brexit-deadline.html

That seems very ….very .. unlikely as extension must be requested , as leaving  is the default position after A50 is delivered and always only unilateral can be asked by U.K. to become extended and granted by E.U. only on demand by U.K. !!

The word "offering" must be read  "offer AFTER"  being requested , and maybe the reason for granting could become changed from E.U. side from G.E. or Referendum in some lighter form, but always after being requested ...

Edited August 31, 2019 by david555

[yardrunner]

1 hour ago, keith101 said:

The UKs DONALD TRUMP

No Boris and the Donald are Tweedledum and Tweedledee 

[beautifulthailand99]

11 minutes ago, david555 said:

That seems very ….very .. unlikely as extension must be requested , as it is the default position after A50 is delivered and always only unilateral can be asked by U.K. to become extended and granted by E.U. only on demand by U.K. !!

As everything can change then EU says here's a freebie - Bercow puts it to the commons - vote agrees job done. We can't leave until Parliament agrees. Remember Parliament took control of the process by law and still has it. This is an amendment not a new law a much easier thing to win than all the other options that were on the table. Looks like with Bercow and a commons majority it is in the bag ....for an extension. It would then be unlawful and impossible for Johnson to leave on the 31st. 

 

And this is how it is done - plenty of Tory rebels can get behind this as will the rest of the opposition.  

 

https://www.parliament.uk/business/news/2019/march/house-of-commons-to-vote-on-article-50-extension/

Edited August 31, 2019 by beautifulthailand99

[Mavideol]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

Who is doing the blaming here.....you.

It is very much the point, parliament has reneged on a democratic vote, that is not the fault of Boris.

.... yet still and you can't stop 555

[david555]

11 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

As everything can change then EU says here's a freebie - Bercow puts it to the commons - vote agrees job done. We can't leave until Parliament agrees. Remember Parliament took control of the process by law and still has it. This is an amendment not a new law a much easier thing to win than all the other options that were on the table. Looks like with Bercow and a commons majority it is in the bag ....for an extension. It would then be unlawful and impossible for Johnson to leave on the 31st. 

It is becoming a legal & word matter and psychological politic warfare on U.K. politicians side , with now putting E.U. to interpretations …..same as Merkel meant ,"... so Boris you have a solution ? "...ok show it in 30 days " as a kind of ridiculing " cards on the table if you claim having a full street poker hand 

Edited August 31, 2019 by david555

[Mavideol]

27 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

an understanding that the UK could leave the EU earlier than the specified date if the government managed to get an exit deal passed in Parliament

this is contradictory to BJ actions, by proroguing parliament his creating unnecessary delays not interested in leaving earlier

[dunroaming]

I have become quite sanguine about the whole Brexit thing now.  Dominic Cummings and the ERG are very much in control and all the huffing and puffing isn't going to change that.  Johnson will stagger from one lie to the next but then we all knew what he was like from the start.

 

It has made me take stock of just where I want to be in the future.  There was a time when I thought it was a nice relaxed life in South East Asia and that worked well back in the day.  Then there was marriage and a child and I decided that it would be much better for him to have a proper education (not in an overpriced poorly run international school in Thailand) in the UK where he would have far more opportunities.

 

So we went through the process of moving to Britain and jumped through all the hoops needed to do that.  My son is doing well and after some practical adjustments my wife is also happy to be where we are now.  So much so that she says there is no way she could go back to living in Thailand.  So ten years on and with university the next major step we can now start thinking about the next stage.  My wife likes Denmark (but I don't really want the cold winters).  She also likes Spain and that looks the most likely, I am rather fond of a good rioja.

 

I have spent the last couple of years shouting at the moon and more specifically the useless excuses of so called politicians who are systematically destroying the Britain I grew up in and was fiercely proud of. I always believed that there was a common bond with Brits and we more or less all sang from the same hymn sheet.  Of course there were always the extremists, the homophobes, the racists, the muesli munchers and the tin foil brigade, but over all they were in the minority.

 

Brexit has taught me that in fact, I was wrong and the country is far more divided than I ever imagined.  I have never experienced such vitriol and anger sustained over such a long period.  So no more shouting or getting my knickers in a twist over Brexit for me.  Life is for living and enjoying and so I will stand back and let all these politicians (Ha!) screw themselves into the ground and wallow in their own s**t.  I have moved my business to mainland Europe and it is now doing well again and I am perusing the property brochures of sunny Spain.  Not so bad after all!