To US expats - Registration with Medicare at age 65

[taxout]

He doesn't have his new number, which the signup wants.

[ubonjoe]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

When did you get that letter?

It was early this year.

I tried to get the new number but it would not accept my old number. It just said it was not found.

Not that important to me at this time. I guess if I was ever in the states I could get it sorted out.

[Pib]

3 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

All i got was a letter with a medicare part a A card and a application form for part B.

 

My card is now no good since it has my old number on it. They sent me a letter informing me it was no longer valid and they were not mailing anything overseas with the number on it. The letter said I could get the new number online but I could not do it.

They "will" mail a new card...both the wife and I got one...we live in Bangkok. 

 

However, you must request a replacement Medicare card from SSA; not from Medicare.   We requested the new card from the Manila SSA Office.  Although both of us tried requesting the card using our SSA online acct and the request  appeared to go successfully, the card simply never showed up...we did this a couple of time over about 4 months..  But once we asked Manila SSA and they replied they had requested a new card for us, the cards did show up about a month later.  

[Sheryl]

Yes, I received original card by mail in 2018 and new card by mail this year. I forget when exactly...maybe about 6 months ago.

 

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[ubonjoe]

No date on the letter. Scan of it follows.

 

[mrwebb8825]

On 10/5/2019 at 9:44 AM, ubonjoe said:

No date on the letter. Scan of it follows.

 

2 things jump out at me in this letter; 1) "If you live outside the U.S. or U.S. territories you must call using a U.S. mobile number (DUH! How do you get a U.S. mobile number from outside the U.S.??) and 2) you may file a complaint if you feel you've been discriminated against.

Isn't telling you that they've decided to change the program from when you 1st started paying into it to exclude anyone that may cause them an inconvenience discrimination by it's very nature?

[ubonjoe]

After posting the letter from them I decided to try again to get my new number. But could not find the same feature on the medicare site to get my new number. Then tried MyMedicare but it was down.

Went on MyMedicare this morning clicked register and amazingly enough it accepted my old number and allowed me to complete the registration. Now have my new card printed out.

Amazed it was so easy to register on it. Nothing like MySSA that I still cannot do.

[Pib]

Yea...registering for a Medicare online acct is super easy if you know your Medicare number....and logging onto the Medicare site is super fast...no 2FA required....after your enter your user id and password within a blink of an eye you are logged on.....none of this rotating wheel stuff for X seconds while the main screen pulls-up/displays.  Or at least that how it works for me.  

[frantick]

I'm retiring to Thailand at 64y.o.  As I read it, the Special Enrollment Period for those turning 65 overseas and returning 'to live' in the US have 3 months; 2 + month returning month, to enroll WITHOUT PENALTY.  The other options state "You may also qualify", which means 'another way to qualify' vs turning eligible overseas.

 

My problem, I'll make over the $107,000 as a single in 2019 and they go back 2 years for earnings determination.  That means $270 bucks a month if I sign up next year for something I don't plan on using.  If I wait and don't sign up, my income will be SS + small pension, so I'm back down around the standard premium of $140 (or whatever the low is that year) if I wait until I return to the US to reside.  Even if I delay sign up until 66, my prior income drops dramatically and at 10% penalty I'd still be way under $270 a month.  And yeah, I know that $270 would be readjusted after a year assuming they know my income dropped vs the penalty, should I live long, would probably cost me more in the long run.

 

I don't want to create an account at the Medicare site, is there a website with chat that I can get my paragraph 1, 100% verified?

 

 

[Sheryl]

I think you can use the Live Chat function on MyMedicare site without an account.

 

I assume you are referring to Part B. Being overseas exempts you from the late penalty only if you are insured through employment during that period. If so, no penalty and you are eligible to enrol later under a SEP.

 

But simply being overseas alone does not qualify.

 

 

 

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[gk10002000]

21 hours ago, frantick said:

I'm retiring to Thailand at 64y.o.  As I read it, the Special Enrollment Period for those turning 65 overseas and returning 'to live' in the US have 3 months; 2 + month returning month, to enroll WITHOUT PENALTY.  The other options state "You may also qualify", which means 'another way to qualify' vs turning eligible overseas.

 

My problem, I'll make over the $107,000 as a single in 2019 and they go back 2 years for earnings determination.  That means $270 bucks a month if I sign up next year for something I don't plan on using.  If I wait and don't sign up, my income will be SS + small pension, so I'm back down around the standard premium of $140 (or whatever the low is that year) if I wait until I return to the US to reside.  Even if I delay sign up until 66, my prior income drops dramatically and at 10% penalty I'd still be way under $270 a month.  And yeah, I know that $270 would be readjusted after a year assuming they know my income dropped vs the penalty, should I live long, would probably cost me more in the long run.

 

I don't want to create an account at the Medicare site, is there a website with chat that I can get my paragraph 1, 100% verified?

 

 

There have been some threads here about exactly how far back they go in years to determine your income and then your Supp B premium.  Some have hinted it is actually 3 years.  I suspect the answers are a bit variable because they probably consider a Tax year, and depending on your dates involved, the previous two tax years could cover almost 3 years of calendar time.  But good that you are aware of the issues and premiums.  Now, the threads also said one person actually had his premium reduced automatically the next year and the IRS actually coordinates with Medicare folks and checks income levels.  I personally doubt that will happen that easily or smoothly.  I raise an eyebrow when hearing the Government will act efficiently in reducing ones payments.  There seems to be a provision to contact Medicare folks and request the premium reduction, but that seemed vague.  I myself am 62 1/2 and starting to consider what I want to do next year for work and income, or punch out and start keeping my MAGI low in anticipation of turning 65 and getting medicare.   I am tired of work, but the money really is very good.  So being able to save up another 100k and possibly only have to pay one year of higher Med B Supp premiums of course is the better financial tradeoff.

[gk10002000]

23 hours ago, frantick said:

I'm retiring to Thailand at 64y.o.  As I read it, the Special Enrollment Period for those turning 65 overseas and returning 'to live' in the US have 3 months; 2 + month returning month, to enroll WITHOUT PENALTY.  The other options state "You may also qualify", which means 'another way to qualify' vs turning eligible overseas.

 

My problem, I'll make over the $107,000 as a single in 2019 and they go back 2 years for earnings determination.  That means $270 bucks a month if I sign up next year for something I don't plan on using.  If I wait and don't sign up, my income will be SS + small pension, so I'm back down around the standard premium of $140 (or whatever the low is that year) if I wait until I return to the US to reside.  Even if I delay sign up until 66, my prior income drops dramatically and at 10% penalty I'd still be way under $270 a month.  And yeah, I know that $270 would be readjusted after a year assuming they know my income dropped vs the penalty, should I live long, would probably cost me more in the long run.

 

I don't want to create an account at the Medicare site, is there a website with chat that I can get my paragraph 1, 100% verified?

 

 

The premium bands are pretty tight.  If I stay on the job next year, my AGI will be over 160K.  And that value would be used for my Supp B premium first year if I take medicare in 2022 when I am 65?  Birthday may 1957, I am 62 1/ 2 now, will turn 65 in 2022, May.   $352 is a lot to start with and then fight to have reduced.  I was thinking 50 bucks or so would be my extra cost but this is getting significant.  This just may tip me to punch out this year.  But as I read the fine print, do they go back 2 years and take that value, or will they look back 2 years and take the highest value of income in those two years?

 

"SSA determines if you owe an IRMAA based on the income you reported on your IRS tax return two years prior,"

 

 

Your premium will change based on income as follows:
Your annual income		Your monthly premium in 2019
Individuals	Couples
Equal to or below $85,000	Equal to or below $170,000	$135.50
$85,001 -$107,000	$170,001 – $214,000	$189.60
$107,001 – $133,500	$214,001 – $267,000	$270.90
$133,501 – $160,000	$267,001 – $320,000	$352.20
$160,001 – $499,999	$320,001 – $749,999	$433.40
$500,000 and above	$750,000 and above	$460.50

Edited October 8, 2019 by gk10002000

[taxout]

It's a very simple and basic calculation. Your additional payment for year 2022 will be based on your "modified adjusted gross income" as shown on your tax return for the year 2020. The next year, 2023, you'll start fresh and any additional payment will be based on your modified adjusted gross income for 2021. Keep in mind the amount of the additional payment seems to go up each year: that chart above is only for adjustments in 2019.

 

 

[gk10002000]

21 minutes ago, taxout said:

It's a very simple and basic calculation. Your additional payment for year 2022 will be based on your "modified adjusted gross income" as shown on your tax return for the year 2020. The next year, 2023, you'll start fresh and any additional payment will be based on your modified adjusted gross income for 2021. Keep in mind the amount of the additional payment seems to go up each year: that chart above is only for adjustments in 2019.

 

 

I hear you, but supposed 2020 income was 160k, then in 2021 it was 80k.  I start Medicare in 2022.  Would the government really take the value from 2020?

 

  And conversely, if income in 2020 was 80k, then in 2021 was 160k.  I start medicare in 2022, would they go back and take the 2020 low value?  They would not use the higher 2021 value?   Then in 2023 when my income is now down and at 80k, would they then go back to 2021 and use the 160k income value?  That does not sound right.  I would think at that point they would use your current income?

 

Constantly adjusting your premiums using values only from 2 years before?  I think the approach for what to use when Starting Medicare supp, is not the same for when continuing.

 

From the SSA PDF form:.  Note the key word is they use the most recent federal tax return the IRS provides".  So I guess the presumption is the IRS only provides SSA folks the return from two years before?  But those words are not in the paragraph and it does not rule out that IRS may report an earlier or later Tax form.

 

"How does Social Security determine if I must
pay higher premiums?
To determine if you’ll pay higher premiums, Social Security
uses the most recent federal tax return the IRS provides
to us. If you must pay higher premiums, we use a sliding
scale to make the adjustments, based on your modified
adjusted gross income (MAGI). Your MAGI is your total
adjusted gross income and tax-exempt interest income.

 

Which tax return does Social Security use?
To determine your 2019 income-related monthly
adjustment amounts, we use your most recent federal
tax return the IRS provides to us. Generally, this
information is from a tax return filed in 2018 for tax year
2017. Sometimes, the IRS only provides information
from a return filed in 2017 for tax year 2016. If we use
the 2016 tax year data, and you filed a return for tax
year 2017 or did not need to file a tax return for tax year
2017, call us or visit any local

EN-05-10536.pdf

Edited October 8, 2019 by gk10002000

[taxout]

The rule is as I said. Your Medicare Part B adjustment for 2022 will be based on your 2020 modified adjusted gross income.

 

That is, there's a lag in the adjusment. There's a lag for practical reasons: you don't file your tax return for 2020 until 2021, maybe late in the year if you get an extension. And of course it takes time for IRS and Medicare to coordinate. It wouldn't be practical to base your 2022 premiums on your 2021 income tax return.

[gk10002000]

28 minutes ago, taxout said:

The rule is as I said. Your Medicare Part B adjustment for 2022 will be based on your 2020 modified adjusted gross income.

 

That is, there's a lag in the adjusment. There's a lag for practical reasons: you don't file your tax return for 2020 until 2021, maybe late in the year if you get an extension. And of course it takes time for IRS and Medicare to coordinate. It wouldn't be practical to base your 2022 premiums on your 2021 income tax return.

And does the SSA automatically adjust your premiums each year?  So if two years before I had low income, but one year before I had high income, they will base my premium on the two years before high income?  Then the next year when I am not working, they will base my premiums on the one year before which was a high year, even though I am now not working and have low income?  Is that when one could file an appeal and say things have changed? 

[taxout]

They get the information from the IRS. (If for some technical reason your 2020 tax return isn't available when they send out the first bill for 2022, they'll preliminarily base the adjustment on your 2019 return, then make a final adjustment setting everything right when your 2020 return later becomes available.)

 

There are very very limited grounds on which you can appeal and ask for reduction of the adjustment. Lots of luck looking for a loophole that fits.

 

Sorry, but it is what it is. Feel free to spend hours reading though the SS/Medicare sites if you have any doubts, though.

[metisdead]

An off topic post has been removed. 

[smo]

Here's latest reply from SS Manila

 

RE Part A:
You are already enrolled in Part A that takes effect this month of October 2019. It is the Center for Medicare and Medicaid Services that prints and sends the Medicare card. I have inputted a request for a card to be mailed to your address in Thailand.

 

RE Part B:
Initial Enrollment Period (IEP) for Part B is 3 months prior the month and year you turned 65 and 3 months after. In the [old] form, just write your social security number.

 

[gk10002000]

On ‎10‎/‎8‎/‎2019 at 12:56 PM, taxout said:

They get the information from the IRS. (If for some technical reason your 2020 tax return isn't available when they send out the first bill for 2022, they'll preliminarily base the adjustment on your 2019 return, then make a final adjustment setting everything right when your 2020 return later becomes available.)

 

There are very very limited grounds on which you can appeal and ask for reduction of the adjustment. Lots of luck looking for a loophole that fits.

 

Sorry, but it is what it is. Feel free to spend hours reading though the SS/Medicare sites if you have any doubts, though.

But in 2022 my income is 40K.  But they bill me based on if I made 160K in 2020.  Isn't getting a reduction based on current income the intent?  No way should one be paying based on two year old income.  I understand why they may do that, but I really doubt the intent of the premium payment to be based on income is that.

[Jingthing]

Appears to be lots of good info here:

 

Quote

It’s a good deal for most older Americans, but Medicare is neither free nor easy

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/its-a-good-deal-for-most-older-americans-but-medicare-is-neither-free-nor-easy/2019/10/11/d52e7d00-eb70-11e9-9306-47cb0324fd44_story.html

[taxout]

You need to read that article in conjunction with the comments. Lots of posters think the article is unduly negative and alarmist.

[Sheryl]

The tone may be but some of the points are valid. Everytime I read a post from someone saying they don't need health insurance in Thailand because they have Medicare in USA I wonder if they are aware of the significant deductibles and copays. Susoect not (not to mention how unrealistic it is to expect to be able to fly back if seriously ill or injured).

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[gk10002000]

12 hours ago, Sheryl said:

The tone may be but some of the points are valid. Everytime I read a post from someone saying they don't need health insurance in Thailand because they have Medicare in USA I wonder if they are aware of the significant deductibles and copays. Susoect not (not to mention how unrealistic it is to expect to be able to fly back if seriously ill or injured).

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All good points.   I was willing to, and had explored the options of also getting some coverage while in Thailand.  But the current Thai mandates are terrible.  1:  They seem to want full year premium paid up front.  There are many reasons why a person may not stay the whole year and now would have sunk costs.  2:  The Outpatient requirement is ludicrous and in general adds a lot of cost to a Thai Plan.  3:  The minimum coverage idea of 400k baht is well below the 1 - 5 Million baht most knowledgeable people seem to recommend for Thai insurance.  Those coverage levels get very pricey.  4:  No real details on pre-existing conditions is readily available.  Maybe one would have to pour over the fine print of an individual policy one is considering. 5:  I am pretty sure these plans will be looked on as "second rate" plans for foreigners, and the priority of care will be poor. 6:  Barring sudden onset of a serious problem, I think the risk is OK to expect to have to fly back home for care.  Often a condition is known and creeping on a person.  i.e. a cancer diagnosis for example.  Others times such as serious accidents of course it can't be pre-planned or easy to do.

[Sheryl]

I really don't follow your reasoning hete.

 

If your concern is to meet O-A visa requirements, relying on Medicare in US is not an option.

 

If your concern is to adequately insured then no need to pay any attention to these substandard loval policies; get a decent expat policy. You can get excellent cover for around $3000 a year if under age 70-75, $4,000-ish if over 75. In addition to insuring care on the spot here in Thailand, this is less expensive than care under Medicare is apt to be taking deductibles and copays 1into account.

 

Heart attack, stroke, major accident...in none of these is flying back to the US a feasible option.

 

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[mrwebb8825]

A question along the retirement lines of this conversation: Once I file for and start receiving SS, do I also need to start filing tax returns again? If so, are there any possible benefits for being in the "Extremely Poor" (Poverty Level, even if I was living in the states) that I could claim?

A little background before anyone wants to swear I should have been filing or was required by law to file the whole time I've been living here; Mt sister worked for H&R Block before I moved here and 2 yrs after I moved here she told me I didn't need to file anymore because I didn't make enough money and couldn't claim tax credits since I didn't live in the states. That was back in 2004/2005 iirc. Had some concerns after reading a few topics and asked the Manila office and had their answer verified by a tax consultant that I indeed did not need to file for the last 15/16 yrs.

So back to the original question; Does receiving SS Retirement benefit mean I have to start filing again every yr?

[Pib]

14 hours ago, mrwebb8825 said:

A question along the retirement lines of this conversation: Once I file for and start receiving SS, do I also need to start filing tax returns again? If so, are there any possible benefits for being in the "Extremely Poor" (Poverty Level, even if I was living in the states) that I could claim?

A little background before anyone wants to swear I should have been filing or was required by law to file the whole time I've been living here; Mt sister worked for H&R Block before I moved here and 2 yrs after I moved here she told me I didn't need to file anymore because I didn't make enough money and couldn't claim tax credits since I didn't live in the states. That was back in 2004/2005 iirc. Had some concerns after reading a few topics and asked the Manila office and had their answer verified by a tax consultant that I indeed did not need to file for the last 15/16 yrs.

So back to the original question; Does receiving SS Retirement benefit mean I have to start filing again every yr?

Maybe yes...maybe no....will vary from individual to individual depending on their total income.   

 

Use below IRS website to determine if you would need file a federal income tax return.....because it varies from individual to individual....there is no "one answer applies to all."   In will take approx 10 minutes to walk yourself thru the entries required at below website.....then you will have your answer.

 

https://www.irs.gov/help/ita/do-i-need-to-file-a-tax-return

[Sheryl]

Social security payments are fully taxable.

 

If you owe tax, or had witholding that you want to claim refund on, you have to file

 

If you do nto owe any tax you are not as I unedrstand it required to file a retrun

 

but unless your SS payments are really low, you will owe something on them

[Pib]

4 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Social security payments are fully taxable.

 

If you owe tax, or had witholding that you want to claim refund on, you have to file

 

If you do nto owe any tax you are not as I unedrstand it required to file a retrun

 

but unless your SS payments are really low, you will owe something on them

 

SS is "typically" taxable.  Typically 50 to 85% of your SS benefit is taxable.  It all depends on your total income if any or what percentage is taxable.  See below SSA webpage.

 

https://www.ssa.gov/planners/taxes.html

[Jingthing]

Social security payments are fully taxable.
 
If you owe tax, or had witholding that you want to claim refund on, you have to file
 
If you do nto owe any tax you are not as I unedrstand it required to file a retrun
 
but unless your SS payments are really low, you will owe something on them

The typical person with an average claim like 1400 a month will owe no tax on that unless there are other significant income streams putting them over the no tax threshold.

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