Stupifyingly Senseless Bureaucracy!

[rickudon]

Well this week, having moved/saved up my 400,000 baht for my next Marriage extension, I decided to open a term deposit account for the money. So off I go to the bank.

 

Bank flunky "Cannot do. You must be sponsored by Thai person"

Me "Wife?"

Bank Flunky "yes, that ok"

 

So off I go to get the wife to close her shop and bring to Bank. Now, knowing last time it was a pain opening a new account, we also take blue book and signed ID card copy from the Householder (wife's father).

 

Get to bank and try again.

 

Bank flunky " Cannot do. Your wife not householder on Blue book. Must be Householder"

 

So we pass across the signed ID Card Copy.

 

Bank flunky "Cannot do. The householder must come IN PERSON to sponsor customer"

 

Now I am loosing my cool and muttering about stupid rules. My F-in-L is 80 and as deaf as a post, and hasn't been near a bank for at least 5 years.

 

Bank Flunky " If householder cannot come, can use another Bluebook householder instead"

 

So wife calls up her sister, who contacts her husband (a bluebook holder) but he is busy teaching. So we runout of time as need to pick up daughter from school. Anyway, chances are they will find another reason instead to say no.

 

And what makes this so senseless? I already have a savings account with the bank!

 

Unfortunately, just another sign that farangs are not wanted. After all, tourists do not need a Thai bank account ……. so let's make life difficult for them. Guess we will have one more attempt, after which I will strangle the flunky if it fails. then try another bank ……..

Edited September 5, 2019 by rickudon
letter missing from title

[Vacuum]

Change bank.

[rickudon]

Took 5 attempts last time to change bank.

[worgeordie]

I have never experienced what you are,just opened 2 accounts

last couple months,CMBI and Bangkok bank,ask to speak to manager

or try another bank.

regards Worgeordie

[1FinickyOne]

Never ever had a problem opening a bank account in Thailand... 

 

Maybe if you stopped referring to people who are there to help you and are just doing their jobs as flunkies, you might do better. And yes, they pick up on disdain and condescending attitudes... 

 

And if a flunkie would be defined as someone who cannot do a simple task... does that mean that you... ?? 

[poohy]

Does in deed sound senseless but sadly believable in todays Thailand

I would speak or ask wife to speak to a senior manager the counter staff  is being obstructive or  lazy or downright retarded 

I actually have/had all sorts of accounts at  in BKK bank and Krungthai in 20 years never had a problem and always a good relationship with manager and staff.

 

 

[poohy]

4 minutes ago, kenk24 said:

Never ever had a problem opening a bank account in Thailand... 

 

Maybe if you stopped referring to people who are there to help you and are just doing their jobs as flunkies, you might do better. And yes, they pick up on disdain and condescending attitudes... 

 

And if a flunkie would be defined as someone who cannot do a simple task... does that mean that you... ?? 

NB Some counter staff are MUCH better than others The bad ones referring to them as Flunkies is being polite

[rickudon]

I am polite. In Udon Thani, unfortunately, the Bank clerks are very much the prisoner of the banks regulations and NEVER dare challenge them. I understand that for a new customer at a bank they want some evidence of who you are and your immigration status, but an existing customer?

 

I have opened accounts in 3 countries before without a problem. Unfortunately banks in rural Thailand are paranoid that we are all money launderers. Ten years ago I was able to walk into a bank in Thailand and open an account, not any more.

[NCC1701A]

1 hour ago, rickudon said:

Bank flunky "Cannot do. You must be sponsored by Thai person"

translation: "Please go away and don't come back."

 

[1FinickyOne]

2 hours ago, poohy said:

The bad ones referring to them as Flunkies is being polite

If that is considered polite, future problems everywhere can be expected...

 

wonder what the bank workers side of the story is? This rude farang... 

[Jai Dee]

As has already been suggested, try another bank.

 

I recently opened a term deposit account with SCB with no more documentation than my passport.

 

My passport was copied - personal data pages, visa page, and current visa extension page... all signed by me, deposit form filled out by bank personnel, added mobile phone number and address... signed by me, cash handed over and new bank book issued.

 

No mention of Thai sponsorship or any other requirements.

 

For an 800,000 baht fixed deposit for a term of 1 year I think the interest rate was 1.65%.

[rickudon]

Absolutely not rude. I smile, ask politely, and just get back an embarrassed "Cannot". This of course was in Central plaza in Udon, where of course many expats visit. But the staff there seem to be incapable of doing anything other than deposits and withdrawals. They say they cannot do counter withdrawals either - which I have done in 2 other branches of the same bank locally (one a tiny branch at Homepro).

[rickudon]

Another bank is a possibility. I last opened an account 2 years ago and that was a hassle, took 5 attempts, 3 different banks (including one at which a relative worked). I chose the yellow bank because a couple of years ago they issued leaflets in English saying they welcomed foreign customers (Huh?) and because they had specific accounts that I was interested in. I only got the new account by sweet talking up the bank clerk, talking about our children and schools.....

 

My wife, typical Thai, is always deferential to authority and never questions what they say. Only good for translating (though she had no idea what a fixed term account was). But, my main gripe is, when you have already been approved for one account at a bank, so they have your details, why not a second? Just doesn't make sense.

[petermik]

7 hours ago, rickudon said:

 But, my main gripe is, when you have already been approved for one account at a bank, so they have your details, why not a second? Just doesn't make sense.

"Just doesn`t make sense" common sense and logic are not applied here when dealing with farangs

[Pib]

Before attempting to open an account at a Thai bank, specially in rural areas, one should always scout the branch out first.  If you spot below Bank Account Opening Decision Wheel which is used for potential farang customers, it's probably best to try another branch.

 

[GroveHillWanderer]

On 9/5/2019 at 10:57 AM, rickudon said:

Unfortunately banks in rural Thailand are paranoid that we are all money launderers. Ten years ago I was able to walk into a bank in Thailand and open an account, not any more.

The thing is, it's not just Thailand where you run into this kind of problem - and it's not necessarily the bank staff being paranoid, sometimes it's the legislation that constrains them. 

 

I have had different accounts with the same bank in Jersey for around 30 years. I opened my last account with them, while living abroad, some years ago. However when I contacted them recently about opening a new US dollar account they told me they are no longer allowed to open foreign currency accounts for non-UK residents, due to banking regulations.

 

Even though I have banked with them for decades and have previously gone through 'proof of identity/address' formalities with them (twice) they could not open an account for me.

[rickudon]

Finally done. The Thai brother-in-law (a teacher) took time off to come to the bank with me and wife with him as housemaster in a blue book. He had to guarantee me and they took photocopies of his bluebook, ID Card and my passport photo page for him to counter sign, and a couple of other forms. 

My Turn. First, copy every page in the passport (including TM6 card). Countersign every copy (20 pages?). Then sign the application form(s) about another 20 times. Signatures on withdrawal slip, deposit slip, and a few other slips. Photographed. Finger printing, DNA test not currently required …….. Maybe next year. It all took 45 minutes - about the same time as a marriage extension!

 

In the UK it would take 5-10 minutes, or 3 minutes on the internet to open a new account as an existing customer. Gross inefficiency. But at last, I have a time deposit account! Now, what about the Mee Tae Dai savings account? Family have all developed bladder problems, Must go Hong Nam now,

 

Maybe try again in about one year?

 

[JaiLai]

On 9/5/2019 at 5:41 AM, rickudon said:

Absolutely not rude. I smile, ask politely, and just get back an embarrassed "Cannot". This of course was in Central plaza in Udon, where of course many expats visit. But the staff there seem to be incapable of doing anything other than deposits and withdrawals. They say they cannot do counter withdrawals either - which I have done in 2 other branches of the same bank locally (one a tiny branch at Homepro).

Go to a proper branch and not a satellite on such as central etc.

[Yinn]

49 minutes ago, rickudon said:

Finally done. The Thai brother-in-law (a teacher) took time off to come to the bank with me and wife with him as housemaster in a blue book.

 

Lucky he can help you. 

 

 

49 minutes ago, rickudon said:

 

 

He had to guarantee me and they took photocopies of his bluebook, ID Card and my passport photo page for him to counter sign, and a couple of other forms. 

Lucky. What you do if thai people not help you poor guy.

 

49 minutes ago, rickudon said:

 

In the UK it would take 5-10 minutes,

 

Really. You say you need your “typical Thai” wife to translate.

 

So you illiterate, deaf mute in thailand right? 

 

So if a thai who can not speak English, go to England bank with no paperwork , not know about the rule, the english staff can open the bank acount for him. In 10 minutes. Amazing.

 

I think life better for you if you learn thai language. And better for the brother in law, his wife, your wife, the bank staff. Everybody. Not waste there time. 

 

It not difficult, even stupid typical thai can speak thai. 3 year old kid. 

[samsensam]

 

opened two bank accounts with k bank earlier this year with no issues except it took a while as every decision had to be referred to head office. if you get messed around just go to another bank/branch, there are loads to choose from. oh yea and i didn't need anyone to hold my hand.

Edited September 10, 2019 by samsensam
clarity

[timendres]

I once walked into a bank to get cash. I handed the teller my passport. I wrote out a check in front of her (it was a business account, so cashing checks made out to "CASH" was standard practice). I signed the check in front of the teller. She then pulled up my account on the computer, compared the signature on the check to the signature on my account, and declared "Signature not match".

 

What? OMG!

 

So, I asked her. Do you believe I am the person that owns the passport that I just handed to you? "Yes." Ok, do you also believe that the person that my passport identifies is the owner of this account? "Yes." Ok, did you just watch the owner of the account sign the check in front of you? "Yes." Ok. So what is the problem? "Signature does not match."

 

Honestly, I wanted to laugh out loud, jump up on the counter, and start dancing and singing, since that would be just as rational as this teller.

 

However, I maintained my composure and simply asked to speak to the manager. The manager arrived, and I went through the exact same sequence of questions. When we got to the last question, the answer was "There is no problem.", and she authorized the teller to cash my check.

 

In Thailand, you must understand the hierarchy of businesses and institutions. The low level employees never benefit from thinking outside the box, but definitely can suffer. You simply, and politely, ask to see a manager, and work your way up until someone in a superior enough position is willing to do the rational thing. In fact, they take great pleasure in demonstrating their great and glorious power. Play to these dynamics, and you will almost never fail.

[timendres]

36 minutes ago, Yinn said:

Really. You say you need your “typical Thai” wife to translate.

 

So you illiterate, deaf mute in thailand right? 

 

So if a thai who can not speak English, go to England bank with no paperwork , not know about the rule, the english staff can open the bank acount for him. In 10 minutes. Amazing.

 

I think life better for you if you learn thai language. And better for the brother in law, his wife, your wife, the bank staff. Everybody. Not waste there time. 

 

It not difficult, even stupid typical thai can speak thai. 3 year old kid. 

I think this is a little over the top Yinn. The OP was not complaining about the bank not wanting to deal with his lack of Thai speaking skills. Most banks will have someone on staff who can assist with English during any transaction. Banks are businesses that should be willing to make an effort to acquire new customers, not drive them away.

 

The issue here is that banks really do not like to deal with foreigners when opening bank accounts. And they do not consistently follow policy from branch to branch. They often simply make every attempt to get the foreigner to walk away. Having opened many accounts personally and for business, I can attest to this fact.

 

You talk about "not know about the rule", but the process here of having someone guarantee the account was likely not a rule. But they tried to use it to make the OP "go away", and once they went down that road, they needed to follow it to the end. I have never needed anyone to guarantee a bank account in Thailand.

 

While I agree that anyone living in Thailand long term should make their best attempt at learning to speak Thai, even those who are relatively fluent can still have trouble fully understanding the conversation when opening a bank account, as there are many business specific words that the average person would not encounter in every day conversation. Furthermore, the bank employee will be much more confident and relaxed if there is a Thai person to assist with the conversation.

 

Finally, many Thai friends say that I speak Thai very well. But the simple fact is that an 8 year old Thai kid can easily run circles around me. It is not really fair to compare the OP to a "stupid typical Thai" or a "3 year old Thai kid", since both have learned Thai as their first language.

[Momofarang]

10 hours ago, Yinn said:

So if a thai who can not speak English, go to England bank with no paperwork , not know about the rule, the english staff can open the bank acount for him. In 10 minutes.

Not same same. Every educated person in the world speaks English. Our days every business must have English in their communication strategy. If Thailand wants to compete with its ASEAN neighbours it must conduct business in English. And I could go on...

BTW, my mother tongue isn't English. English is one of the tools I gave myself to achieve an interesting life.

[henry2109]

10 hours ago, timendres said:

I once walked into a bank to get cash. I handed the teller my passport. I wrote out a check in front of her (it was a business account, so cashing checks made out to "CASH" was standard practice). I signed the check in front of the teller. She then pulled up my account on the computer, compared the signature on the check to the signature on my account, and declared "Signature not match".

 

What? OMG!

 

So, I asked her. Do you believe I am the person that owns the passport that I just handed to you? "Yes." Ok, do you also believe that the person that my passport identifies is the owner of this account? "Yes." Ok, did you just watch the owner of the account sign the check in front of you? "Yes." Ok. So what is the problem? "Signature does not match."

 

Honestly, I wanted to laugh out loud, jump up on the counter, and start dancing and singing, since that would be just as rational as this teller.

 

However, I maintained my composure and simply asked to speak to the manager. The manager arrived, and I went through the exact same sequence of questions. When we got to the last question, the answer was "There is no problem.", and she authorized the teller to cash my check.

 

In Thailand, you must understand the hierarchy of businesses and institutions. The low level employees never benefit from thinking outside the box, but definitely can suffer. You simply, and politely, ask to see a manager, and work your way up until someone in a superior enough position is willing to do the rational thing. In fact, they take great pleasure in demonstrating their great and glorious power. Play to these dynamics, and you will almost never fail.

I experienced the same story concerning my signature. I had to sign a new form 3 times.

 

You call it "thinking outside the box". I call it lack of education and stupidity to a grade which is unbelievable.

[Vacuum]

17 minutes ago, henry2109 said:

I experienced the same story concerning my signature. I had to sign a new form 3 times.

Normally I stop drinking for 24 hours before I do any signatures... 

[rickudon]

Lack of English skills was not the issue. I opened an account at the same branch just over a year ago, by myself. I did not have any major problems, other than proving my address (after a short chat, they accepted Thai Driver licence). That is why I wanted to use the same branch. Wife was necessary only because they requested it AND to translate between me and Thai Brother-in-law. The Bank clerk (different one from last time) didn't say 'cannot' at all. And he asked me questions (in English) which I answered.

 

Central is convenient as easy to get to and has parking, can also shop at Royal Project and Tops. The old centre of town banks are not, and very few farang use them. In Central there are always a lot of farang around.

 

The other issue, is, of course the lack of consistency. Central branch will not do counter withdrawals for a credit card, but 2 other branches will (one of which is a tiny branch at Home Pro with only 3 or 4 staff). My main gripe is that when I already have an account at the bank, they want a guarantor for a new type of account?

 

Anyway, it is possible that NEXT time you open an account it will not be so easy. It didn't used to be like this.

[faraday]

I've always found BKK bank here in Udon to be good.

 

However, about 4 weeks ago, I (we) went in to get the document, affirming that the 400k was good to show immigration.

 

My wife explained what I needed, clerk went to the little room there, & after 10 minutes, she came out with the required letter, but addressed to the British Embassy.

 

When my wife queried this, they said it ok, & were very reluctant to change it.

 

I was fed up, & without being aggressive, told them firmly that I wanted it changed. They did so.

 

Just lazy.