Thailand's foreign businesses balk at stricter immigration tracking

[Tropposurfer]

Omidabuddha ????????????????????????????

[nrasmussen]

Many low budget hotels and guest houses don't register you with immigration, some don't even ask for your passport, just cash in my experience, so it's quite easy to keep under the radar. 

It sincerely doubt Immigration isn't aware of that. These are probably among the first places they would come looking if they wanted to find someone not registered anywhere.

[miamiman123]

Better check on all those foreign English teachers at those EP schools making weekend runs!!! 
hahaha 

[Lacessit]

I just don't understand all the fuss. I fly back to Australia once every six months. The condo staff fill out a TM30 for me when I come back. When I travel within Thailand, my Thai GF uses her Thai ID card at every hotel or guest house. What is the problem?

[tabarin]

3 hours ago, Bob12345 said:

All laughing aside, the tm30 requirement does make it difficult for a person like that to find a place to stay. He cant stay in hotels or guest houses so that either leaves dodgy places, houses of friends (would you let a murderer in?), or the streets. 

Guess you never heard of the possibility to add some money and forget about TM30, not hard to find 10 places in a day with today's economy.
Or simply by staying at hotels near the red light areas at night, nobody registering anyone there except the bar girl.

Edited September 6, 2019 by tabarin

[Artisi]

14 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I just don't understand all the fuss. I fly back to Australia once every six months. The condo staff fill out a TM30 for me when I come back. When I travel within Thailand, my Thai GF uses her Thai ID card at every hotel or guest house. What is the problem?

The problem could be the hotel by law should report you by TM30, just as you have reported you are out of town ???? but keep a low profile and nobody is any wiser. I won't tell as I always try the same trick.

[clifric]

I have never filled in a TM30 (or for that matter a TM28). Today I asked my Immigration Office what was the position as I had seen all the fracas on here suggesting TM 30 filled in if leaving home province. The IMO agreed that stays of more than 24 hours in hotels, guest houses etc the onus is on the owner, re-entry into the Kingdom does not require TM 30 from your wife if she owns the house. In other words the one my wife filled in when we moved into our new house in 2012 still stands. My IMO do not ask for tea money

[Advocate]

The TM30 process is a disgrace and it nonsensically creates mountains of paper documentation which nobody will ever examine.

 

TM30 bureaucracy creates harassment and inconvenience to foreigners and is designed to rip off foreigners leaving Thailand when an accommodation provider has not lodged TM30 documents for a foreign passport holder the foreigner will be prevented from leaving and will have to pay the accommodation provider's fine which will probably be loaded with the corrupt foreigner fine premium.

 

The immigration official who instigated the current level of TM30 bureaucracy should resign.

[kevinmartyn]

There is noway foreign business will be putting money in to Thailand in the foreseeable future with the strong baht and unstable government! It would be madness to do so.

[Caldera]

That might get their attention more than a few (thousand) individuals complaining. They do still want to attract foreign investment, after all.

[jmccarty]

Far easier on everyone to just make foreigners wear a GPS anklet and charge them daily for it.  I'm certain everyone would prefer that!

[StevieAus]

4 hours ago, madmitch said:

It is not difficult to find a guesthouse/Airbnb etc that does not report to Immigration

We have travelled extensively throughout Thailand in recent years and away from the larger cities we have never been asked to provide any details passport, Thai  ID card etc all they want is the money.

[madmitch]

1 hour ago, kimamey said:

I would think that's especially the case since it seems it's the visitor not the guesthouse/Airbnb owner that pays the fine.

You are wrong in this instance. It isn't unknown for hotels and guesthouses to be "raided" by Immigration and pay a fine for all unregistered guests. You'll also find that the fine for an accommodation provider such as a hotel is higher than it is for individuals who fail to report visitors.

 

But it's true that many smaller hotels, out of the way places and "resorts" that predominantly cater for one night stays prefer to run the risk.

[Kinnock]

6 hours ago, gunderhill said:

Great, keep  up the pressure on the mindless nonsense, idiots  who brought this "back in" well done jfcct now come on  EMBASSIES show us what you've  got?

The Embassies are already demonstrating what power they have.  None whatsoever.

 

Imagine the British (English) Ambassador trying to tell anyone how to run their country - from the comfort of his office at the back of Familymart in the Trendy Building, or wherever it is he's skulked off to.

 

But good that the business chambers are speaking up. 

[Mavideol]

6 hours ago, mercman24 said:

i have said this until i am blue in the face, do they think any terrorist or one up to no good would be staying in a hotel, ? no of course not, they would be staying in a safe house with friends. stupidity at its best,and now the busines world has come to say how silly this TM 30 thing is, as they say, they dont get hounded in other countries.

correct and correct, unfortunately Thailand will soon come up with an other "good" excuse/reason to justify their non sense, they are wrong, everybody including neighboring countries, says they are wrong yet they still doing nothing to improve.... maybe we are all stupids and only Thais are the smart ones, it sure looks that way

[Tgcoll]

But how can full grown business person who brought 100 million dollars to do business and to contribute into the economy and still struggling to get his visa extended, running from one pole ???? to another, men think of it most rich people don't won't stress men, they brought their money to you appreciate them welcome them stop behaving as u don't need them,  your pride hmm 

[madmen]

Won't happen, catastrophic loss of face. They Will dig the heels in and probably change the 24 hours to 60 mins

[roamer]

2 hours ago, trigpoint said:

Many low budget hotels and guest houses don't register you with immigration, some don't even ask for your passport, just cash in my experience, so it's quite easy to keep under the radar. 

Fine, if that is your thing. But for those who prefer to stay somewhat upmarket your option could be worse than the TM30 hassle.

[Suradit69]

4 hours ago, spermwhale said:

Maybe if foreign companies speak up and threaten to pull up their tents the Thai government will listen. Money is the only thing that matters for the Thai government and if enough companies squawk and threaten to go to Communist Vietnam or Cambodia, the government will rethink its approach. 

 

Apparently some other developing countries have immigration issues that could negatively effect their economies.

 

 

Quote

 

The UK's deeply flawed immigration system urgently needs an overhaul before Brexit or businesses will suffer

 

The Home Office is feeling the full force of pressures to fix the system before Brexit kicks in to avoid some tough questions: how will it cope with an influx of EU visa applications? Are we driving our talent over a cliff?,  and, where is the safety net? 

 

 

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/comment/uk-immigration-system-brexit-urgent-overhaul-fasttrack-citizenship-a8353681.html

[joebrown]

40 minutes ago, Kinnock said:

The Embassies are already demonstrating what power they have.  None whatsoever.

 

Imagine the British (English) Ambassador trying to tell anyone how to run their country - from the comfort of his office at the back of Familymart in the Trendy Building, or wherever it is he's skulked off to.

 

But good that the business chambers are speaking up. 

It's heart warming to read a comment by someone who holds the British Embassy in such high regard! They are a trade mission fronting as an embassy.

[grumpy 4680]

        I think the T.M 30 just goes to prove immigration can't do there job properly, You have half of them trying to kick you out, whilst the other half are letting them in. (there must be money to make at both ends)

[theswedishguy]

Quote

6 hours ago, jonclark said:

 Are you suggesting that neither a terrorist nor wanted criminal would self-disclose their location to immigration on their TM30 as required by law? Now that really isn't playing by the rules is it?

 

 

 

You understand the rules? The travelers never have to do anything. TM30 is something the owners of condos/hotels have to report. One huge point you are missing is that owners are responsible for the actions that people you rent to. As a condo/hotel owner: is your job to check visa and that they don't do illegal stuff in your property. This is a great way to stop illegal immigrants. 

 

What is all the fuss? As a renter/tourist you will never see TM30.

 

The bigger problem is that most condos register the guests against a fee for TM30. There is no verification as usual in Thailand. Somehow non owners can register TM30s and make 200 THB for each guest. That is the problem. Otherwise if this worked as it should: how hard is it for you as an owner to write down their passport number/visa number and register them at your condo? It takes minutes and as an owner you want passport copies and so on if there are any trouble with the tenant. 

 

yes. I got fined for TM30. yes. I was angry as hell because I have registered TM30 every time I arrived in TH. But the immigration had registered an adress I used many years before I bought a condo. As a foreigner: there is nothing I can do. I have no rights. I can't complain to try to make Thailand better. (why does their computers have my adress wrong?). Just pay the 1600 and smile. Since I got a legal receipt: it was a real fine. 

 

We should copy this system to the west and save our native countries. (Thailand: you arrive without proper passport = 1 page news in Thai media. Happened once last year. Fines for the airline. Sweden: You arrive at the airport. Throw away the passport and seek asylum: You get by law free housing, money, school, healthcare as long as the asylum process takes. Thailand is right. Not the west)

[DUNROAMIN]

6 hours ago, Jacob Ree Smog said:

Oh my, I've been hearing a lot about this TM30 hoo-ha over the last few months. Can't say I've ever done one nor plan to do one in the future. I'm predicting that in six months time or so this nonsense shall be dropped completely due to pressures from business and local Thai people losing money. None of my fellow peers have every filled one out either. It all seems a tad silly in this day and age.

Lets hope it wont be long before the idiot who is trying to regurgitate this old policy has egg on his face for making Thailand look stupid.

[thurien]

7 hours ago, 3421abc said:

I am sure on the Malaysian insurgents in the south will be filling their TM30 ????

no need, all of them bought appropriate passports already...

[Sydebolle]

As said earlier on, it is like the dredged "tax clearance" some 30 years ago. 

Only the legal residents with work permits were screened for "tax payments" and all those "under the radar operators" without proper visas or work permits were not affected.

Ditto with the TM30, but try to hammer common sense into a square army skull - good luck! 

[hotchilli]

8 hours ago, webfact said:

"Ease of doing business is a hallmark of any nation's attractiveness for trade, investment and tourism," said Stanley Kang, the JFCCT's Taiwanese chairman. "TM30 is undoing those good achievements. Our neighbors do not have this continuous tracking requirement."

Watch as the number of foreign workers drop in favour of neighbouring countries and tourist number plummet with the exchange rate & extra hassle!

[gunderhill]

NEWSFLASH, Wife  reports today at  Immigration FINES  have been suspended temporarily, anyone  else seen/heard this today. Chaeng Wattana

Edited September 6, 2019 by gunderhill

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

2 hours ago, gunderhill said:

NEWSFLASH, Wife  reports today at  Immigration FINES  have been suspended temporarily, anyone  else seen/heard this today. Chaeng Wattana

 

I'd be content if Thai Immigration went back to "enforcing the law" the same way they've enforced the TM30 law for the past 30 years or so.... That is, in typical Thai style, by NOT enforcing it.

 

They don't need a law change or some ministerial order to go back to the way things were beyond 1 year ago. They were perfectly fine ignoring the law for decades. No reason they couldn't go right back to there now.

 

That's Thai "law enforcement" at its finest!!!

[Dogmatix]

How about some foreign governments getting together and imposing closer tracking of Thai expats as a retaliatory measure until TM30 is dropped.  Thai investment, apart from a few exceptions like Thai Union, is insignificant to most of the world, so it wouldn't matter, if they pulled out all their investments and expats.  Ankle bracelets fitted to Thai residents is a pleasing idea and would quickly putt a stop to the TM30 nonsense.

Edited September 6, 2019 by Dogmatix

[josephbloggs]

6 hours ago, Advocate said:

The TM30 process is a disgrace and it nonsensically creates mountains of paper documentation which nobody will ever examine.

 

TM30 bureaucracy creates harassment and inconvenience to foreigners and is designed to rip off foreigners leaving Thailand when an accommodation provider has not lodged TM30 documents for a foreign passport holder the foreigner will be prevented from leaving and will have to pay the accommodation provider's fine which will probably be loaded with the corrupt foreigner fine premium.

 

The immigration official who instigated the current level of TM30 bureaucracy should resign.

Clearly nonsense.  Not a single person has been prevented from leaving the country due to not having lodged a TM30.  Not one.  There are no fines at the airport.  So how is it designed to rip off foreigners leaving the country?

And what is this "corrupt foreigner fine premium"?  

Just another paranoid TV delusional.....