UK PM Johnson to meet European leaders in New York in push for Brexit deal

[7by7]

13 minutes ago, Forethat said:

Just like calling others racist, fascist, stupid, crazy, nutter, liar, extremist etc.

 

Sounds familiar...

 Almost as familiar as Remainers being called left wing, PC, tree hugging, terrorist excusing, traitors!

 

 

[sawadee1947]

2 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 Part of the GFA is the Republic at last recognising the democratic right of those in Northern Ireland to determine their own future. Hence the change in the Republic's constitution to remove it's claim to Northern Ireland and instead recognise that Northern Ireland will remain part of the United Kingdom until and unless the people of both Northern Ireland and the Republic wish otherwise.

 

 

If Scotland would walk the way to freedom the way is paved for reunification of Ireland. 

[evadgib]

18 minutes ago, sawadee1947 said:

If Scotland would walk the way to freedom the way is paved for reunification of Ireland. 

If 55m English had their own Parliament and/or opted to dissolve the Union & really take back control both would be hopping about like Michael Flatley. 

[7by7]

1 hour ago, sawadee1947 said:

If Scotland would walk the way to freedom the way is paved for reunification of Ireland. 

Mel Gibson impersonations apart;  if that's what the majority in both Northern Ireland and Scotland want, then good luck to them.

 

But whenever they have been asked, the majority of both have said they want to remain in the Union.

[Blue Muton]

22 hours ago, Loiner said:

Do you ever wonder why we say the EU has decimated UK industry over the past 43 years? You have given one good example, of the many available.

I've never wondered that because it's simply untrue. It's greedy people like Dyson who move their already profitable companies abroad for cheap labour.

[samran]

On 9/21/2019 at 3:42 PM, Laughing Gravy said:

The United Nations the most undemocratic organisation in the world, followed by the EU.

 

I hope he tells them to mind their own business and that it will not be the UK building a wall or border or causing any terrorist attacks on NI or Eire territories. So who will then.

Strange logic.

 

Yep, you are right, the EU will be forced to put up borders. Not only to protect their internal market but to remain WTO compliant. If they give non-negotiated preference to goods and service from the UK to enter via that border, others are going to want it. So they will work to avoid that and up goes the border.

 

Similarly, the UK will leave the EU. Fine.

 

Using the purple unicorns for all logic of the brexit campaign, the line out of the brexiters will be that they won't be putting up borders in NI for goods coming out of the south. Fine again.

 

Until, all the other WTO members demand similar access, which they are entitled to. Tarriff and regulatory check free. IF you aren't demanding these checks out of the EU, via the ulster border, then everyone can get it.

 

In the meantime, you are supposed to be negotiating all these FTA's - you know, to gain access to other markets. Freedom, sovereignty and all that.

 

But because you've already given away free access already, who in their right mind is going to negotiate a FTA with you? You've already given them free access. They don't have to give you anything.

 

Brexiter logic at its finest and so much for that local industry you want to re-build.

 

 

 

[sawadee1947]

1 hour ago, 7by7 said:

Mel Gibson impersonations apart;  if that's what the majority in both Northern Ireland and Scotland want, then good luck to them.

 

But whenever they have been asked, the majority of both have said they want to remain in the Union.

I'm not living in the past. Ask people now or better after a no-deal Brexit. ????

[elliss]

18 minutes ago, samran said:

 

 

Brexiter logic at its finest and so much for that local industry you want to re-build.

 

 

 

 

Lets not forget ,  Cottage industry , and weaving , keep the uk peasants working .

Soon to be quoted on the stock exchange , invest now..

  New chocolate available soon ,  Boris  Elite Delight ,  made in Belgium...

 

 

[Blue Muton]

1 minute ago, elliss said:

 

Lets not forget ,  Cottage industry , and weaving .

Soon to be quoted on the stock exchange , invest now...

 

Not possible, all of the financial institutions will have gone to Germany by then. Or France. Or The Netherlands. 

[Loiner]

5 hours ago, Blue Muton said:

I've never wondered that because it's simply untrue. It's greedy people like Dyson who move their already profitable companies abroad for cheap labour.

Nope, all true, that's how the EU works. Asset stripping on a massive scale. They have been moving profitable UK companies abroad to cheap EU wage slaves for years now. Europhiles and Remainers still think its a good idea.

[Loiner]

9 hours ago, puipuitom said:

You forget, British industries also bought continental companies, like British Steel the Dutch Hoogovens. Only.. thanks to the British labour laws, it is (was?) close-to-impossible to reorganise production. Result: both ended in Tata = India hands. Again, many Brexiteers cannot understand, that Tata is a stock-company, with.. stocks in hands all over the world, probably brokered by stock traders in the London City.  Same with Nestle, Unilever, Shell etc.

 

May I remember you the financial but especially economic situation Labour but especially the Unions brought the UK around beginning 70's : the sick man of Europe.

 

Brexiteers want to bring the UK back to an era, which does not exist anymore, with production scales only regional, of.. just national. Production is now global to get sufficient economics of scale ( look in your economy book, if you ever had one) 

 

Your preoccupation with ownership simply shows that you don't really have very much idea at all. Although in the hands of Johnny Foreigner no business is safe, the main issue is production in the UK and jobs for UK workers. 

The LAB induced sick man of Europe syndrome was quashed by Maggie Thatcher and subsequent Tory governments. The foreign investment did not start until UK industry was in good shape. E.g. Tata and British Steel in the late naughties. They only bought-in because they could see a bargain with some worth, either for production or in some cases asset stripping. Foreign investors don't buy rubbish.

 

Brexiteers want an era where the UK is producing and not being ripped off by EU or anybodyelse. You need to try some proper economy books not written by EU lovers.

[Loiner]

9 hours ago, puipuitom said:

First of all, the UK did already much to stay in competition with the EU by reducing the GBP from € 1,40 to now a € 1,13. Just an extra step towards € 0,80 and the UK can beat the EU import duties. Not so good for your 600+Bn trade with the EU alone as you get less for your export and must pay more for your imports, but.. that every Leave voter could have known.

 

Production for a LOT of items for only national consumption will have a too low economy-of-scale, with result higher production costs. 90% of the UK manufacturers will not feel that so much, but 10% might loose their jobs.

 

The reduction in GBP has increased UK competitiveness tremendously. Pound down = Exports up and Imports down. More workers in production and balance of payments improves. The gift that keeps on giving.
If & When EU tariffs are imposed, the whole situation gets better. Fewer EU imports and production returns to UK bases. Bring it on fat boy.

[Loiner]

9 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

Please explain how Johnson, Gove and the rest of the Leave campaign can hold to their promise of taking back control of our borders if we leave with a completely open border with the EU?

Control. We control who comes through borders, not the EU. If you don't even understand that you shouldn't be commenting with your interminable diatribes.

 

None of Merkel's millions, which she is still trying to foist on us, are allocated to the UK. None of those who pass are entitled to any benefits. None of them are accepted as refugees.

European tourists are more than welcome. Irish travelers.........well, let's have a rethink about them. 

[Loiner]

10 hours ago, puipuitom said:

a) I thought British to have sovereignty between their borders. But.. I presume you have no problem with whatever crosses this inter-Irish border ? Good gap to dump whatever, as from 1 Nov the UK is out of RASFF area. And relocate a few migration camps to 100 mtr away from this "border". 

 

b) The EU, like any normal ( Union) of nation(s) want to be able to keep certain things out, like chlorine chickens 

 

c) As the EU exports only a small part of their products to the UK and import from there… you will soon see.

 

d) As we Europeans believe, we have to be tighter together, many wanted the UK in. But seen the hate of many British towards the EU, better you are some time on your own. Do not forget your Schengen-visa in the future, as you will need like anyone form "third countries". 

 

Do you really think Ireland would accept thousands of hungry criminal immigrants, in addition to their own citizens? Yeah, have a go.

 

What is it with Remainers and Chlorinated Chicken? If the EU citizens don't like it they won't buy it, so no imports and no problem. Why should the EU commission decide what EU citizens can eat? That's more than just dictatorial.

 

EU maybe doesn't export much through that border, but Ireland sure as hell does. Why should Ireland suffer for your EU protectionist bloc?

 

Schengen visas? You better check with Spain, Greece and the rest of them about that. If we have to get one for the low countries, nobody in UK will bother and nobody will go unless they really have to. 

 

 

[Loiner]

10 hours ago, puipuitom said:

By German Law the same as any other living in Germany would get paid.

These Merkel's million: over 390.000 work already.  https://statistik.arbeitsagentur.de/Statischer-Content/Statistische-Analysen/Statistische-Sonderberichte/Generische-Publikationen/Auswirkungen-der-Migration-auf-den-Arbeitsmarkt.pdf

So how many UK businesses were relocated to Germany?

[Loiner]

8 hours ago, evadgib said:

Never mind, It'll be over soon enough ????

(Halloween or Guy Fawkes re enactment!!)

Sure will, we will forget all that American ghost & ghoul nonsense and celebrate the UK Re-independence Day. Pity about the time of year and weather though, there won't be many street parties.

[puipuitom]

1 hour ago, Loiner said:

Schengen visas? You better check with Spain, Greece and the rest of them about that. If we have to get one for the low countries, nobody in UK will bother and nobody will go unless they really have to. 

ALL who come in from a "third country" into the EU needs a visa. Has NOTHING to do with individual member states.

Spain, Greece etc are EU member states and members of the Schengen agreement, so their citizens even can NOT GET a visa for the EU. Just as a Scot does not need any visa for travelling inside the UK.

Time to learn a little about the EU and Schengen.

[puipuitom]

7 hours ago, 7by7 said:

Mel Gibson impersonations apart;  if that's what the majority in both Northern Ireland and Scotland want, then good luck to them.

 

But whenever they have been asked, the majority of both have said they want to remain in the Union.

The Scots were asked that question with the idea, all woudl continue to be member states of the EU. THAT changed.

And as everyone has the right to change his/her mind ( that's why we have now-and-then elections) also this time the Scots could change, seen the EU membership.

[samran]

3 hours ago, Loiner said:

 

 

EU maybe doesn't export much through that border, but Ireland sure as hell does. Why should Ireland suffer for your EU protectionist bloc?

 

 

 

Ireland won’t suffer ultimately.

 

Being part of the worlds largest trading bloc with phenomenal logistics chains which keep prices down, it will simply start substituting away from UK sourced products to similar goods they can get elsewhere in the other 20 odd eu countries.

 

As the brexiters have kindly arranged, Irish exports will still head north of the border Tariff, quota and regulatory barrier free, but they sure as hell won’t be coming south with the same benefits. The only losers here are British exporters to Ireland and the rest of the EU who will lose their preferential trade access as of the end of next month, just as you are wanting with a hard brexit. 

[evadgib]

6 hours ago, Loiner said:

Sure will, we will forget all that American ghost & ghoul nonsense and celebrate the UK Re-independence Day. Pity about the time of year and weather though, there won't be many street parties.

St Nigels day is in the Brexit Party's manifesto ????

(23 June)

[Henryford]

A waste of time. Now the EUSSR know the British Parliament is on their side they will not budge a inch. They just have to wait till 31.10 and another extension. And another, and another.........

[david555]

4 minutes ago, Henryford said:

A waste of time. Now the EUSSR know the British Parliament is on their side they will not budge a inch. They just have to wait till 31.10 and another extension. And another, and another.........

the "Brexit perpetuum mobile "....

[brucec64]

Strange logic.
 
Yep, you are right, the EU will be forced to put up borders. Not only to protect their internal market but to remain WTO compliant. If they give non-negotiated preference to goods and service from the UK to enter via that border, others are going to want it. So they will work to avoid that and up goes the border.
 
Similarly, the UK will leave the EU. Fine.
 
Using the purple unicorns for all logic of the brexit campaign, the line out of the brexiters will be that they won't be putting up borders in NI for goods coming out of the south. Fine again.
 
Until, all the other WTO members demand similar access, which they are entitled to. Tarriff and regulatory check free. IF you aren't demanding these checks out of the EU, via the ulster border, then everyone can get it.
 
In the meantime, you are supposed to be negotiating all these FTA's - you know, to gain access to other markets. Freedom, sovereignty and all that.
 
But because you've already given away free access already, who in their right mind is going to negotiate a FTA with you? You've already given them free access. They don't have to give you anything.
 
Brexiter logic at its finest and so much for that local industry you want to re-build.
 
 
 

Just to add to your point. No country will negotiate a FTA with the UK when they have a hole in their border. This would represent a way that EU goods good bypass their own FTA if the UK FTA was more favorable.

This is just a political blame game. The uk will try to pin a no deal and an Irish border on the EU. It seems Boris has been using most of his energy on this game rather than actually negotiating a realistic deal.


Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[tomacht8]

An example from the field of private orders.

I ordered a second hand control unit for a classic car from an ebay seller in the UK.

The package comes without detours, directly to my home.

 

In the event of an unregulated Brexit, my parcel will land at my local customs post office for all third country shipments.

The customs office then sends me a postcard that a package has arrived for me. I have to drive to the customs office, which in my case is 15 kilometers away.

After a waiting time in the queue my package will be opened in my presence.

 

The customs officer looks at this. Original invoice, determination of the market value, looking for the right customs tariff and on top of it,  the VAT 19% (import tax).

In addition to the fact that my control unit has become much more expensive for me in the end, annoying me the enormous loss of time. 

 

If you project that now on a hundred thousand other cases, you can imagine what will arise there for an organizational chaos.

 

 

[samran]

1 hour ago, brucec64 said:

Just to add to your point. No country will negotiate a FTA with the UK when they have a hole in their border. This would represent a way that EU goods good bypass their own FTA if the UK FTA was more favorable.

This is just a political blame game. The uk will try to pin a no deal and an Irish border on the EU. It seems Boris has been using most of his energy on this game rather than actually negotiating a realistic deal.


Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

Basically my thought. Why go through the kabuki dance of 5-10 years of trade negotiations - resulting in a piecemeal outcome -  when you can trade off the stubbornness to keep the ulster border open, get open access to the UK and not have to give anything back in return.

 

 

 

 

[tomacht8]

2 hours ago, Henryford said:

A waste of time. Now the EUSSR know the British Parliament is on their side they will not budge a inch. They just have to wait till 31.10 and another extension. And another, and another.........

Many hope so. Gradual integration of Russia into the EU. Russia with its enormous natural resources and its enormous technology and consumption needs. For Russia, it would be easy to solve the Crimea problem. Peace through trade and prosperity for all. 

I know, for many old cold warriors a horror vision, for many young people a conceivable development.

[candide]

10 hours ago, Loiner said:

The reduction in GBP has increased UK competitiveness tremendously. Pound down = Exports up and Imports down. More workers in production and balance of payments improves. The gift that keeps on giving.
If & When EU tariffs are imposed, the whole situation gets better. Fewer EU imports and production returns to UK bases. Bring it on fat boy.

You forget that in turn 8% of UK's GDP depends upon exports to the EU......

Additionally, I am confused. You seem to hold a 'protectionist' stance on Brexit, but the other guys argue about the benefits of becoming a hub of free trade agreements worldwide. What is the economic model of Brexit: more protectionism or more liberalism/free trade?

[Loiner]

ALL who come in from a "third country" into the EU needs a visa. Has NOTHING to do with individual member states.
Spain, Greece etc are EU member states and members of the Schengen agreement, so their citizens even can NOT GET a visa for the EU. Just as a Scot does not need any visa for travelling inside the UK.
Time to learn a little about the EU and Schengen.

Why don’t you try to learn a little about how much UK money flows into Spain and Greece. A Dutchman trying to impose his schengen visa rules on their cash cows would be quickly dismissed by your other EU states.

[Loiner]

You forget that in turn 8% of UK's GDP depends upon exports to the EU......
Additionally, I am confused. You seem to hold a 'protectionist' stance on Brexit, but the other guys argue about the benefits of becoming a hub of free trade agreements worldwide. What is the economic model of Brexit: more protectionism or more liberalism/free trade?

The EU is the protectionist bloc here. You want to keep the UK in the bloc so we cannot trade freely with the whole world.
Your threat is that after Brexit there will be tariffs. Personally I’d still be happy to trade with the EU but not under all your rules. If you change those and we have tariffs imposed, it’s still a good move for us and the trade imbalance.

[david555]

16 minutes ago, Loiner said:

 

Why don’t you try to learn a little about how much UK money flows into Spain and Greece. A Dutchman trying to impose his schengen visa rules on their cash cows would be quickly dismissed by your other EU states.

 

I think whatever comes out of the thinkers boxes it must be reciprocal..... as if only cash cow is counted by E.U. then E.U. would have gone flat belly for U.K. by now long time already …( by your thinking ).....surprise surprise !! it is not the E.U. policy as you found out already 3 years now