TM30 fines

[Captain 776]

HOPEFULLY..........within the next 2 months or so........the TM-30 is abolished as reported here a few weeks ago

[edwardflory]

1 hour ago, rkidlad said:

So you don’t really own the house then, do you

Yes, you really own the house, it IS considered portable, foundation et all.  Color this crazy!

[tomazbodner]

My place was just in hot water because one of the foreigners didn't have TM30 updated, but they didn't know he left and returned. It can't all be landlord's responsibility when they don't know the tenant's movements...

[rkidlad]

1 minute ago, tomazbodner said:

My place was just in hot water because one of the foreigners didn't have TM30 updated, but they didn't know he left and returned. It can't all be landlord's responsibility when they don't know the tenant's movements...

Just one of the many reasons why the TM30 is stupid. It’s here to make money. That’s all. 

[orchidfan]

On 9/27/2019 at 11:23 AM, ubonjoe said:

Because it is not 100% their responsibility.

Section 38 of the immigration act states it can be others.

"Section 38 : The house – master , the owner or the possessor of the residence , or the hotel manager
where the alien , receiving permission to stay temporary in the Kingdom has stayed , must notify the
competent official of the Immigration Office located in the same area"

Section 4 defines it further.

"“ House Master ” means any persons who is the chief possessor of a house , whether in the capacity of
owner , tenant , or in any other capacity whatsoever , in accordance wiB

 I'm going to Malaysia tomorrow for a few days.

Have never done a TM30 that I recall in 5 years of marriage extensions.

 

But have a 90day report coming up so thought I'd submit one on return. Just in case.

Problem is the house/land is in wife's name. But she's overseas right now.

 

So, Ubonjoe, I'll fill it out in my name and sign it as the "possessor".

From what you say above this still.fits in with the rules /law?

[ThomasThBKK]

17 minutes ago, tomazbodner said:

My place was just in hot water because one of the foreigners didn't have TM30 updated, but they didn't know he left and returned. It can't all be landlord's responsibility when they don't know the tenant's movements...

Yes it is, welcome to thailand.

[ubonjoe]

10 minutes ago, orchidfan said:

But have a 90day report coming up so thought I'd submit one on return. Just in case.

Problem is the house/land is in wife's name. But she's overseas right now.

Does your office require the report? Some still do not require them unless you change you address.

10 minutes ago, orchidfan said:

So, Ubonjoe, I'll fill it out in my name and sign it as the "possessor".

From what you say above this still.fits in with the rules /law?

They  should accept one. But you may need a copy of you wife's house book and iD card.

[ThomasThBKK]

20 hours ago, tgeezer said:

 

I agree that is what it appears to say “ or others in accordance with the citizen registration” I seem to have lost my link to the Immigration Act so can not check but who are others and why would they be subject to registration and not owners, renters et al? 

In your quotation you have put a comma after “in any other capacity”.  Capacity is wrong in my opinion, because owners renters et al are people. 

This is a question for the Thai Language forum. 

 

 

This is how all lawyers i ask interpret it too, also it's not the law on peoples act, it's the law on civil registration act. 

Which does mean, whoever is registered as the Housemaster in the tabiaan baan is responsible.

[orchidfan]

11 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Does your office require the report? Some still do not require them unless you change you address.

They  should accept one. But you may need a copy of you wife's house book and iD card.

Thanks. My local IO has never mentioned a TM30 in the past (many overseas trips but same home address )

The only way to know if they NOW require one is to go there, TM30 in hand, and ask.

Yes, have the house book and wife's ID copies to take along.

The IO is Pathum Thani.

Will report outcome next week.

[tomazbodner]

54 minutes ago, rkidlad said:

Just one of the many reasons why the TM30 is stupid. It’s here to make money. That’s all. 

Fully agree. It is a gold mine for immigration.

[tomazbodner]

29 minutes ago, ThomasThBKK said:

 

This is how all lawyers i ask interpret it too, also it's not the law on peoples act, it's the law on civil registration act. 

Which does mean, whoever is registered as the Housemaster in the tabiaan baan is responsible.

I see revision of rental agreement. Every time tenant leaves the province without informing landlord, a 2000 baht fee will be added to rent. See, there's a solution to everything.

[Onrai]

On 9/27/2019 at 11:23 AM, ubonjoe said:

“ House Master ” means any persons who is the chief possessor of a house , whether in the capacity of
owner , tenant , or in any other capacity whatsoever , in accordance with the law on people act."

I must be missing something. It is the landlord’s, house owner, house renter, not the guest that is required to report. So listing all the various types of ownership still does not make the guest liable for any failure on the “House Master” to register you.

[ubonjoe]

6 minutes ago, Onrai said:

I must be missing something. It is the landlord’s, house owner, house renter, not the guest that is required to report. So listing all the various types of ownership still does not make the guest liable for any failure on the “House Master” to register you.

Guest would only apply if you were staying in a hotel, a friends residence and etc.

If staying a condo, house, apartment and etc you would be possessor if you have a rental or lease agreement.

[tgeezer]

3 hours ago, ThomasThBKK said:

 

This is how all lawyers i ask interpret it too, also it's not the law on peoples act, it's the law on civil registration act. 

Which does mean, whoever is registered as the Housemaster in the tabiaan baan is responsible.

As I say I am talking of semantics and logic. 

In some cases Immigration are adopting ridiculous policies with what appears to have no more justification than to raise revenue. RBOP’s post is shocking and he seems justified in his assessment of what happened. If not corruption it could fairly be described as extortion. 

[Destiny1990]

An official said 2 weeks ago that the TM30 was outdated and we should give him 2 months time to sort it out.

Not sure what that means though.

[cmarshall]

On 9/27/2019 at 12:23 AM, ubonjoe said:

Because it is not 100% their responsibility.

Section 38 of the immigration act states it can be others.

"Section 38 : The house – master , the owner or the possessor of the residence , or the hotel manager
where the alien , receiving permission to stay temporary in the Kingdom has stayed , must notify the
competent official of the Immigration Office located in the same area"

Section 4 defines it further.

"“ House Master ” means any persons who is the chief possessor of a house , whether in the capacity of
owner , tenant , or in any other capacity whatsoever , in accordance with the law on people act."

 

Ubonjoe,

 

I will be leaving in a couple of weeks for a trip abroad and would like to know the most expeditious way to handle the TM30 issue when I return at the end of the month.  My Thai wife and I are both signers on our lease.  The landlord filled out a TM30 for me last year when this issue first came up and would do it again, but his turnaround time is not going to be one day.  My immigration office is CW.

 

So, can either my wife or I file the TM30 on me based on being the "possessor?"  Can we do it via the android app?  If I can do it without involving my wife I would prefer that, but she is willing, if necessary.  

 

Does CW have a track record on this?

 

Thanks in advance for your advice.  I have read some of these threads to try to get up to speed, but it doesn't seem clear to me.  I must say that reading all the repetitive whinging about how unfair the policy is is tedious in the extreme.  

[ubonjoe]

20 minutes ago, cmarshall said:

So, can either my wife or I file the TM30 on me based on being the "possessor?"  Can we do it via the android app?  If I can do it without involving my wife I would prefer that, but she is willing, if necessary.  

Either one of you could register on the app or online as possessors of your residence.

After registering the report could then be done when needed.

[Maestro]

On 9/28/2019 at 6:33 AM, hobz said:

In my case it happened when I wanted to change my address.

They said I was unable to change my address until someone paid the fine. That someone was me.

 

I needed to change the address to be able to get other documents correctly etc. 

 

1. What immigration office was this?

 

2. Did you only have to pay the fine, without having to submit the TM.30?

 

3. How much was the fine?

[Maestro]

On 9/28/2019 at 6:49 AM, tomazbodner said:

My place was just in hot water because one of the foreigners didn't have TM30 updated, but they didn't know he left and returned. It can't all be landlord's responsibility when they don't know the tenant's movements...

 

Section 38 of the Immigration Act clearly allows the tenant to submit the TM.30 in his name.

[Maestro]

On 9/28/2019 at 7:20 AM, ThomasThBKK said:

...Which does mean, whoever is registered as the Housemaster in the tabiaan baan is responsible.

 

No, this is not what the Immigration Act says.

[mrwebb8825]

On 9/27/2019 at 11:23 AM, ubonjoe said:

must notify the competent official of the Immigration Office located in the same area"

Is that even possible? ???? 

[Maestro]

24 minutes ago, mrwebb8825 said:

Is that even possible? ???? 

 

You need to look up the definition of "competent official" in section 4 of the Immigration Act to understand correctly the text you quoted.

[Dmitry2222]

On 9/30/2019 at 2:54 AM, Maestro said:

 

Section 38 of the Immigration Act clearly allows the tenant to submit the TM.30 in his name.

Well, how a tenant schould obtain Tabien Baan and id copy of the house owner?

[Maestro]

3 hours ago, Dmitry2222 said:

Well, how a tenant schould obtain Tabien Baan and id copy of the house owner?

 

The tenant can get copies of the owner's house registration book and ID document by asking the owner for it before signing the rental agreement. On his part, the owner should get a copy of the tenant's passport.

[IvorBiggun2]

On 9/28/2019 at 10:08 AM, ubonjoe said:

My wife would be the one needing to the report as the possessor since her name is on the rental agreement where we are staying now or the owner when I was using the address for our house in the village.

Enough said.

[CRUNCHER]

On 11/1/2019 at 10:10 AM, Maestro said:

 

You need to look up the definition of "competent official" in section 4 of the Immigration Act to understand correctly the text you quoted.

In the case of Immigration "competent official" is an oxymoron.

[canadian]

On 9/29/2019 at 3:38 PM, ubonjoe said:

Either one of you could register on the app or online as possessors of your residence.

After registering the report could then be done when needed.

Hi ubonjoe, where would you insert that you are the possessor when registering?

[ubonjoe]

Attaching a rental agreement or lease wold be the proof.

If I recall correctly you can select it on the TM30 form.

[mokwit]

It seems that far from going away, the TM30 has become a necessity before being able to do anything else at immigration. If I interpreted correctly it seems (some?) people with TM30 filed are being asked to provide the TM30 supporting documents again at extension time.

[mokwit]

3 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Attaching a rental agreement or lease wold be the proof.

If I recall correctly you can select it on the TM30 form.

Someone posted that they need further proof such as a utility bill payment receipt. This might be very recent under the new round of tightening that seems to be going on at IB.