Driving on Home Country License/IDP once you have a long stay visa

[WaveHunter]

Regarding the need to get a Thai driver's license, my understanding is that you are expected to get one if you have a long stay visa (here in Thailand beyond 60 days).  I never bothered because I do not rely on cars or motorbikes for getting around.  

 

Here's my concern:  I am moving from Pattaya to Chiang Mai shortly.  For my move, I will be renting an SUV car to move all my stuff.  What happens if I get pulled over by police for some reason during the trip from Pattaya to Chiang Mai, and can only produce my US license and International Drivers Permit?  I assume they will see my long-term visa in my passport, and so I could possibly be ticketed for not having a Thai License.

 

How serious could this be?  I mean is it typically a small fine like 500 baht, paid on the spot and then I'm on my way...or could it be more problematic? 

 

I am actually planning to get a license once I've moved to Chiang Mai but there are a number of reasons I'd rather not do this before I move unless I absolutely must.

 

Appreciate any helpful replies.  Thanks

 

Edited October 4, 2019 by WaveHunter

[jackdd]

Your assumption that you can't use the foreign license + IDP with a long stay visa is based on a wrong translation.

Thai law says you can't use foreign license + IDP if you have permanent residency status in Thailand.

You can use foreign license + IDP to drive in Thailand for up to a year (which is also the maximum validity of the IDP)

 

Here the sources:

 

Edited October 4, 2019 by jackdd

[Curmudgeonly59]

If you have a valid licence from your home country, it should get you through to Chiang Mai, if it's a one-off trip. The international permits available online need to be clearly associated with your home driving licence. Believe me; no police pulling you over on your way to CM will give a tinker's cuss about ''international treaties" from the 1940's and 60's, unless you're appearing in court.

With any non imm visa, which I assume you're on, it's best to get a Thai driver's licence after 90 days in country... 

[Kwasaki]

1 hour ago, WaveHunter said:

I am actually planning to get a license once I've moved to Chiang Mai but there are a number of reasons I'd rather not do this before I move unless I absolutely must.

 

Appreciate any helpful replies.  Thanks

Get a Thai DL end of.

[WaveHunter]

All I really am looking for is what I might expect if pulled over by police on my trip from Pattaya to Chiang Mai with only a US driver's license and IDP, considering that I have a Non-O visa and have been in Thailand for more than 1 year. 

 

Am I looking at a small fine, paid for on the spot, or something more serious.  Also, how it might affect insurance coverage on rented car.  Anyone?

 

I prefer to wait until I move to Chiang Mai to get a license because doing it before the trip probably means I will have to re-do much of the paperwork once I arrive in CM (i.e.: get a new residency certificate, get an address change on license, etc).

Edited October 4, 2019 by WaveHunter

[richard_smith237]

Answer: variable - ranging from

nothing to your insurance not covering you. 

 

Simple solution: get a Thai licence, it covers you for all of Thailand. 

 

If if you want to play cute: If stopped by the police, your overseas license will see them either let you go or fine you (usually 100-200b or up to 500b tea money).

If involved in an accident you are taking your chances with varying potential: no issues to not being covered. 

 

Conclusion: Get a licence, it’s one of the easier things to do here..

[WaveHunter]

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

Answer: variable - ranging from

nothing to your insurance not covering you. 

 

Simple solution: get a Thai licence, it covers you for all of Thailand. 

 

If if you want to play cute: If stopped by the police, your overseas license will see them either let you go or fine you (usually 100-200b or up to 500b tea money).

If involved in an accident you are taking your chances with varying potential: no issues to not being covered. 

 

Conclusion: Get a licence, it’s one of the easier things to do here..

Are you saying there is no need to do residency certificate a second time or get a new license based on address change once I move to Chiang Mai?

[chickenslegs]

3 hours ago, WaveHunter said:

What happens if I get pulled over by police for some reason during the trip from Pattaya to Chiang Mai, and can only produce my US license and International Drivers Permit? 

Penalties for no licence/IDP are pretty small here. You should be more concerned about the validity of your insurance. If you are unlucky enough to get into a collision it could cost you many millions of Baht.

If you are renting a vehicle, make sure that the insurance is valid and sufficient to cover all the possibilities.

As others have said, it's quite easy to get a Thai drivers licence. IME half a day at the local DLT and about 200 baht.

[kingofthemountain]

26 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

Are you saying there is no need to do residency certificate a second time or get a new license based on address change once I move to Chiang Mai?

You do not have to get a new license if you have one issued in Pattaya and then you move to Chiang mai, Your thai driving license is valid all over Thailand, no matter where from she has been issued.

And no need also to change your adress on the TDL at every change of adress, The adress valid at the moment the TDL is issued stay writted on it, whatever your new adress and if you change your adress 3 or 5 times in one year.

 

[kingofthemountain]

15 minutes ago, chickenslegs said:

Penalties for no licence/IDP are pretty small here. You should be more concerned about the validity of your insurance. If you are unlucky enough to get into a collision it could cost you many millions of Baht.

If you are renting a vehicle, make sure that the insurance is valid and sufficient to cover all the possibilities.

As others have said, it's quite easy to get a Thai drivers licence. IME half a day at the local DLT and about 200 baht.

You are right, the insurance cover is relied to the car, not to the driver, so doesn't matter if the driver has a valid license or not, the insurance is going to pay for the materials issues, but the biggest issue is if he has an accident and a Thai has injuries or stay invalid, or dies, he wil be sued in court and not having at the time of the accident a valid driving license, be personaly responsable to pay all the damages presents and futures, and it could be as you posted many millions of bahts in a lifetime.

[WaveHunter]

10 hours ago, chickenslegs said:

... Penalties for no licence/IDP are pretty small here. You should be more concerned about the validity of your insurance. ...

Thank you to all who provided input here.  Just to be clear, I indeed have a license from my home country and an IDP.  My concern is that I have been in Thailand longer than 90 days so technically I don't know if that makes my license and IDP completely invalid or not.  Judging from the responses it seems to be a "gray area"

 

I'm now opting to get the car drivers license here in Pattaya just to be safe since my main concern is possible impact on insurance coverage should the worst occur on my trip up to Chiang Mai in a rented car.  Thanks to all who pointed out that insurance should be my main concern...good call!

 

Once again, ThaiVisa has proved to be an excellent resource for problem solving here in the Magic Kingdom!

[richard_smith237]

1 hour ago, WaveHunter said:

Thank you to all who provided input here.  Just to be clear, I indeed have a license from my home country and an IDP.  My concern is that I have been in Thailand longer than 90 days so technically I don't know if that makes my license and IDP completely invalid or not.  Judging from the responses it seems to be a "gray area"

 

I'm now opting to get the car drivers license here in Pattaya just to be safe since my main concern is possible impact on insurance coverage should the worst occur on my trip up to Chiang Mai in a rented car.  Thanks to all who pointed out that insurance should be my main concern...good call!

 

Once again, ThaiVisa has proved to be an excellent resource for problem solving here in the Magic Kingdom!

Smart move...  Many seem to live in the 'grey area' as you put it, when taking responsibility for yourself and ensuring you are protected is the only responsible and smart thing to do. 

 

With your 'overseas' license, IDP, a Medical Certification and Proof of Address in hand it shouldn't take you more than a morning to sort yourself out with a 2 year Temporary Thai Driving Licence.

 

You'll need to renew the Licence in 2 years time, if you are on a non-Immigrant Visa you will be able to upgrade to a 5 year licence. 

[richard_smith237]

12 hours ago, WaveHunter said:

Are you saying there is no need to do residency certificate a second time or get a new license based on address change once I move to Chiang Mai?

The Driving Licence is a Licence to drive on the roads in Thailand, it doesn't matter which province. 

 

Upon application and each time you renew your licence you will need to provide 'proof of address' - this part can be a PITA for some who may require an Affirmation of Residence letter from their Embassy, or Proof of Address letter from Immigration (if you've done any 90 days reports etc) this is also where a Yellow Tambien Ban house book can come in handy.

 

In moving from Pattaya to Chiang Mai I don't see any issues with keeping your licence issued in Pattaya.

 

If you were to have your Driving Licence re-issued with a Chiang Mai address I imagine you may need to show proof of your Chiang Mai address (i.e. letter from Immigration or Affirmation of Residence from your Embassy). Personally, I wouldn't bother with the address change - you'll renew in a couple of years anyway. 

[jackdd]

1 hour ago, WaveHunter said:

Judging from the responses it seems to be a "gray area"

It's not really a grey area, but the details which you gave are just not precise.

If the last time you entered Thailand is less than a year ago and you have an IDP which is not expired you are good to go. You have a valid license and can't be fined.

If you entered Thailand more than a year ago then you don't have a valid license, so it's the same as if you were driving without a license.

Edited October 5, 2019 by jackdd

[WaveHunter]

1 minute ago, jackdd said:

It's in no way a grey area, but the details which you gave are just not precise.

If the last time you entered Thailand is less than a year ago and you have an IDP which is not expired you are good to go. You have a valid license and can't be fined.

If you entered Thailand more than a year ago or your IDP is expired, then you don't have a valid license, so it's the same as if you were driving without a license.

Can you provide a link to what you say about one year or under?  Form my last entry, I've been in-country less than one year so if what you say is true, I could drive up to Chinag Mai "legally" and deal with licensing once I have more time on my hands up in China Mai.

 

However, I'm getting information that is all over the place.  The consensus seem to be that anything over 90 days places you in jeopardy.

 

I'll probably opt for getting my car license down here in Pattaya, and then upgrading to motorbike license once in Chiang Mai if I can not be certain about home-country license validity.  But it would be nice to actually know the facts without having to be a lawyer to figure it all out, so I'd love to see the link if you have it.

 

And thanks for a helpful reply!

[jackdd]

1 minute ago, WaveHunter said:

an you provide a link to what you say about one year or under?

I posted it already in my first reply in this topic:

The Thai law doesn't set any time limit to using an IDP, and in the treaty from 1949 regarding the IDP the limit is one year.

[richard_smith237]

16 minutes ago, jackdd said:

It's not really a grey area, but the details which you gave are just not precise.

If the last time you entered Thailand is less than a year ago and you have an IDP which is not expired you are good to go. You have a valid license and can't be fined.

If you entered Thailand more than a year ago then you don't have a valid license, so it's the same as if you were driving without a license.

 

Insurance is the main concern rather than the actual law - Agreed you can't be find, but your insurance company 'could' refuse to cover damages if they have the 90 day clause (which has commonly been mentioned on TV.com)

 

Thus: Driving on an IDP for any length of time (i.e. greater than 90 days) potentially places the driver in somewhat of a 'grey area' unless he has read his insurance policy through in detail and is certain he is covered for the whole year and not just up to 90 days in country. 

[topt]

1 hour ago, jackdd said:

It's not really a grey area, but the details which you gave are just not precise.

If the last time you entered Thailand is less than a year ago and you have an IDP which is not expired you are good to go. You have a valid license and can't be fined.

If you entered Thailand more than a year ago then you don't have a valid license, so it's the same as if you were driving without a license.

Well depends on how far you want to push it if a policeman decided he is not going to accept your IDP. if you are in Nakhon Somewhere Nowhere for example in the middle of a long drive.......

From memory I have read several posters on here and elsewhere stating that even though on a "short" break here with IDP they were still fined. No I don't have links but I doubt it would surprise anybody that it happens.

NB I bolded and underlined in the quote.

1 hour ago, WaveHunter said:

The consensus seem to be that anything over 90 days places you in jeopardy.

 

 

May be an issue even under 90 days - see my comment above. However I note you say you have decided to get the car licence so best of luck for that 

[WaveHunter]

47 minutes ago, topt said:

Well depends on how far you want to push it if a policeman decided he is not going to accept your IDP. if you are in Nakhon Somewhere Nowhere for example in the middle of a long drive.......

From memory I have read several posters on here and elsewhere stating that even though on a "short" break here with IDP they were still fined. No I don't have links but I doubt it would surprise anybody that it happens.

NB I bolded and underlined in the quote.

May be an issue even under 90 days - see my comment above. However I note you say you have decided to get the car licence so best of luck for that 

Yes, I've heard those stories too.  Even with all proper documentation, a policeman can still mess with you. 

 

Since I will be driving to Chiang Mai by way of Nakhon, out in the middle of nowhere with a long way to drive ahead of me, it kind of makes me a target for being pulled over to make a little contribution to a policeman's "retirement fund".  That's OK.  Just don't want to have insurance issues in a worst case scenario.

 

I'm going for the car license in Pattaya next week.  Getting my residency certificate on Monday.  I was told that it only takes an hour to come back and pick it up.  Always disliked visits to Imm but I had a very pleasant encounter with a Imm officer at Jomtien on Friday when I went to renew my VIsa extension. I think going at the right time of day may be the key.  Even though it was a Friday, I went there at 2pm and the place was relatively quiet.  The Imm officer was so relaxed, she even greeted me with a smile, and took the time to answer a bunch of questions I had.  I'll get the medical certificate on Monday also.

 

I'll have the application for conversion all filled out and ready to go.  Even though it is written entirely in Thai, somebody posted a translation of the form.  Very helpful!  I'm including it along with the blank form at end of this post for anyone else who needs it.

 

I have a new friend from ThaiVisa who's offered to accompany me to DLP who's "benn there done that" recently so I feel much more confident it will be a trouble-free experience now.  Quite a nice thing for a complete stranger to offer his time like that.  This forum has some mighty nice and caring members IMO. ????

 

Quick Question:  I'm not sure which DLP office this form below came from but it says that bringing photos is no longer required; that the DLP does that on the spot.  Is that true for all DLP's in Thailand now?

 

 

Application_For_Driving_License_Blank.pdf

English Translation.pdf

Edited October 5, 2019 by WaveHunter

[Nyezhov]

3 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

I have a new friend from ThaiVisa who's offered to accompany me to DLP so I feel much more confident it will be a trouble-free experience now. 

yeah anyone want to help me in Bangkok? Ill buy ya lunch. I dont have an IDP

[abrahamzvi]

16 hours ago, WaveHunter said:

All I really am looking for is what I might expect if pulled over by police on my trip from Pattaya to Chiang Mai with only a US driver's license and IDP, considering that I have a Non-O visa and have been in Thailand for more than 1 year. 

 

Am I looking at a small fine, paid for on the spot, or something more serious.  Also, how it might affect insurance coverage on rented car.  Anyone?

 

I prefer to wait until I move to Chiang Mai to get a license because doing it before the trip probably means I will have to re-do much of the paperwork once I arrive in CM (i.e.: get a new residency certificate, get an address change on license, etc).

To start with, is you IDP still valid? If so how come, as IDPs are valid only for 12 months. Further, if you get a Thai DL in Pattaya, you do not have to have it reissued when you move to Chiang Mai.

 

If I were you I would get a Thai DL before you drive to Chiang Mai. What happens if you have an accident on the way? You could be charged for driving without a permit, which means there would be no insurance cover and you would be held liable for all damages. 

[recom273]

2 hours ago, WaveHunter said:

Can you provide a link to what you say about one year or under?  Form my last entry, I've been in-country less than one year so if what you say is true, I could drive up to Chinag Mai "legally" and deal with licensing once I have more time on my hands up in China Mai.

 

However, I'm getting information that is all over the place.  The consensus seem to be that anything over 90 days places you in jeopardy.

 Yup - 90 days - there have been reports here in the past - I know of one instance where an insurance company refused to pay for totaled bike, and another poster mentioned being advised by his insurance broker that companies were becoming clued up on the IDP situation. Yes, they have a validity for a year or two, but under Thai law you are given 3 months to exchange your home country’s for a Thai ticket.

 

Police don’t give a hoot, you won’t get an IDP scrutinized against your entry stamp.

 

I think you have made your mind up anyway, but if anyone else reads this, it’s better to be aware of the situation.

[WaveHunter]

11 minutes ago, abrahamzvi said:

To start with, is you IDP still valid? If so how come, as IDPs are valid only for 12 months. Further, if you get a Thai DL in Pattaya, you do not have to have it reissued when you move to Chiang Mai.

 

If I were you I would get a Thai DL before you drive to Chiang Mai. What happens if you have an accident on the way? You could be charged for driving without a permit, which means there would be no insurance cover and you would be held liable for all damages. 

IDP still valid; I picked it up while travelling in the States last December.  Thank you for confirming no need for license re-issue once I move to Chiang Mai.  In the States, moving to another state makes that mandatory, so good thing to know.

 

Totally agree about insurance.  That's the only reason I'm going to the trouble of getting the licence before trip even though I plan to get the M/C license later up in Chiang Mai when I have more time on my hands.

 

Thanks for your post ????

 

[WaveHunter]

43 minutes ago, recom273 said:

 Yup - 90 days - there have been reports here in the past - I know of one instance where an insurance company refused to pay for totaled bike, and another poster mentioned being advised by his insurance broker that companies were becoming clued up on the IDP situation. Yes, they have a validity for a year or two, but under Thai law you are given 3 months to exchange your home country’s for a Thai ticket.

 

Police don’t give a hoot, you won’t get an IDP scrutinized against your entry stamp.

 

I think you have made your mind up anyway, but if anyone else reads this, it’s better to be aware of the situation.

Yes, all good advice from you.  My main concern however is not police but insurance if (worst case scenario) I had an accident resulting in somebody else's injury.  I think, in that case, my IDP would be considered legally invalid since I have had a Non-O visa beyond ninety days.  It would thus invalidate insurance protection.  At least, I'm sure a good civil case lawyer for plaintiff would approach it that way.

 

Getting the license before trip (even though IDP is still valid) only sounds prudent.

 

Thanks for your post since it (and my reply) will probably be useful to other TV members.

Edited October 5, 2019 by WaveHunter

[WaveHunter]

42 minutes ago, Nyezhov said:

yeah anyone want to help me in Bangkok? Ill buy ya lunch. I dont have an IDP

Don't be surprised if you get a PM from some kind fellow member up there.  I'm sure you probably already know it but there are a lot of really good people on this forum!

 

Edited October 5, 2019 by WaveHunter

[topt]

58 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

Quick Question:  I'm not sure which DLP office this form below came from but it says that bringing photos is no longer required; that the DLP does that on the spot.  Is that true for all DLP's in Thailand now?

No idea if "all DLP's" but certainly for all the main DLTs and I would think all by now as has been in place for Pattaya for certainly more than 3/4 years. 

[Lacessit]

The consensus seems to be the OP should get the temporary 2-year Thai DL.

Having said that, the probability of the OP getting pulled over is fairly low. Particularly if he has any Thais travelling with him.

In my experience, police at checkpoints only want to look at the registration sticker on the windscreen to see it is current. I've only ever been asked for my DL when I'm on my scooter.

Worst case, he might get hit with a 1000 baht fine. Most Thai police can't read an IDP anyway. As it looks official, it will usually pass muster.

The OP might also want to consider what time of day he is travelling. After noon, most checkpoints are unmanned because the police are off lunching or sleeping. They rarely come back.

As they say, up to you.

 

[sometimewoodworker]

1 hour ago, WaveHunter said:

Totally agree about insurance.  That's the only reason I'm going to the trouble of getting the licence before trip even though I plan to get the M/C license later up in Chiang Mai when I have more time on my hands.

If your US licence includes a M/C licence you can get both at the same time, most LTO offices will accept copies of all documents that you present for the second licence you get if you do both at the same time.

 

Also whatever the Thai licence law on permission to drive on a foreign licence with IDP may be, many/most/all insurance policies have a clause that if you have been in Thailand more that 90 days you must have a Thai licence for the insurance to be valid. Lots of people are going to tell you that they have made successful claims having broken this clause, but how many had a seriously large claim paid and would you want to take that chance?

 

 

Edited October 5, 2019 by sometimewoodworker

[Mick501]

I was pulled over in CM about three years ago with no IDP.  They wrote a ticket which I paid on the spot.  3-400b from memory.  And the ticket allows you to drive legally for 3 days.  At least that's what the policeman said.

 

It won't cost much, but as another poster mentioned, the biggest concern is personal injury in the event of an accident.  Insurance companies very likely will not pay out if you do not fully comply with local laws.    

 

Id heard varying reports as to what was required and was never pointed to the relevant Thai legislation.  So unless you are able to get certainty from reading the relevant legislation yourself, the best option is probably just to get the license.   Fairly straightforward process and total cost around 1000b for car and bike licences.

[khunPer]

22 hours ago, WaveHunter said:

What happens if I get pulled over by police for some reason during the trip from Pattaya to Chiang Mai, and can only produce my US license and International Drivers Permit?  I assume they will see my long-term visa in my passport, and so I could possibly be ticketed for not having a Thai License.

I would worry more if getting into an accident, and what insurance would cover...????

Getting a Thai DL is not that difficult, cost is about 600 baht.