Are you tired of waiting for the next shoe to drop ?

[WhatupThailand]

I would like to know how many are tired of waiting for the next shoe to drop in the Thai Visa Circus.

For the last few months, it seems that more needless Red Tape and Hoop Jumping rules are being pushed in Thailand.

None of which make any sense, unless you consider the Money Trail, which leads back to the Cronies of Banking and Insurance.

And of course creating more paper pushing jobs, in order to grow the Bureaucracy, and turn Thailand into a top heavy whatever.

I have to ask why is it getting so hard for Retirees to stay in Thailand ?  Or for any other long term expats for that matter.

I always thought that the longer you were in a Country, and not creating problems, they would make it easier on you,

Especially if you had Family and kids.  Seems like that is only Wishful thinking when it comes to Thailand.

 

So now while walking through the Tall Grass in Thailand, I worry about when the Immigration Snake will Strike,

and Destroy the Life I have made over the years with my Family here.

What is the real reason behind all the recent increase of Rules and Red Tape ?

 

We may never find out, but only watch as Thailand's Reputation and Status drops on the world stage.

 

As for me I will make plan B, in order to set up a move to another country close to Thailand, where it will be easy to visit for my Family.

Where I can pay once a year to stay, without all the Insane Rules and Red Tape, where I can enjoy my retirement years, with less stress

and worry.  So it will not matter when the next shoe drops.

 

[from the home of CC]

I think I'll grab a nap..

[Thailand]

It is certainly frustrating with something potentially new on a regular basis to <deleted> up what was a pleasant situation for many years. Most of this seems to be in the the wake of BJ and his ilk.

[soalbundy]

The pound is hurting right ? Being morose won't help, adopt the attitude 'it is as it is because it can be no other way'. Acceptance of what is can change a situation but even if not it makes life easier, cause and effect go back thousands of years, perhaps you are in Thailand because two hundred years ago an ancestor fell off of his horse. You aren't the doer, you have phenomenal experiences of what is.

[OneMoreFarang]

22 minutes ago, WhatupThailand said:

For the last few months, it seems that more needless Red Tape and Hoop Jumping rules are being pushed in Thailand.

For me it seems Thailand is enforcing some existing laws.

And they think about how to handle all those old people who can't or won't pay their hospital bills.

 

I understand that this makes some people unhappy and probably some people will have to leave Thailand.

But on the other hand I understand that Thailand does not want that some people are a burden to the country. And that's what they are if they don't pay their hospital bills.

[Jingthing]

Not logical. Look at the insurance plans they're promoting. Closer to covering a sprained ankle than something major.

Signed.
Captain Onerous

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[soalbundy]

Just now, Jingthing said:

Not logical. Look at the insurance plans they're promoting. Closer to covering a sprained ankle than something major.

Signed.
Captain Onerous

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

considering the state of the pavements here that would seem to be a very sensible insurance

[CharlieH]

The main problem as I see it is the total instability and lack of consistency in most aspects of officialdom. The problem is it can and may well ALL change in the next few weeks months, we see this guy or that guy doing this or that, then he disappears and someone else is the top of the pole.

 

Its not a good scenario but all you can do on shifting sand is watch and wait for the next shift ! Unsettling and not a nice predicament when one is supposed to be relaxing in retirement,instead of each day or week a question of "what now" ?

[CLS]

For me it seems Thailand is enforcing some existing laws.

And they think about how to handle all those old people who can't or won't pay their hospital bills.

 

I understand that this makes some people unhappy and probably some people will have to leave Thailand.

But on the other hand I understand that Thailand does not want that some people are a burden to the country. And that's what they are if they don't pay their hospital bills.

 

What burden? If the figures are correct it‘s 12 baht per foreigner per annum.

 

Every bottle of Chang brings more than 12 baht tax revenue.

[Samuel Smith]

16 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

 

But on the other hand I understand that Thailand does not want that some people are a burden to the country. And that's what they are if they don't pay their hospital bills.

Who's not paying their bills?

[OneMoreFarang]

2 minutes ago, CLS said:

What burden? If the figures are correct it‘s 12 baht per foreigner per annum.

 

I don't know how much it is and it does not really matter.

What matters is the published cases and the perception of the people.

 

It's like in some western countries where lots of people complain about all those expensive migrants. As far as I know in many countries these migrants bring in total more money than they cost. But still there is a lot of sentiment against them because they are so expensive.

 

Same same, not much different.

[bkk6060]

Guess it depends who, where, when, how.

 

I worry about none of it.

Last year with extension, 90 day reports, resident cert., proof of funds in bank I probably spent a total of an hour inside the Chonburi Imm. office.

And I have a good insurance policy well covered. 

In most cases mommy is not here.  So If a person is a mature adult and can adapt and be responsible, should be no worries at all.

[OneMoreFarang]

2 minutes ago, Samuel Smith said:

19 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

 

But on the other hand I understand that Thailand does not want that some people are a burden to the country. And that's what they are if they don't pay their hospital bills.

Who's not paying their bills?

Did you never read about any of those cases were people can't pay their hospital bills? I see them all the time in the news.

[CLS]

I don't know how much it is and it does not really matter.
What matters is the published cases and the perception of the people.
 
It's like in some western countries where lots of people complain about all those expensive migrants. As far as I know in many countries these migrants bring in total more money than they cost. But still there is a lot of sentiment against them because they are so expensive.
 
Same same, not much different.

This is not a fair comparison. Migrants that steal local jobs are not retirees that only spend money.

TH has less than 1% foreigners, my home country 26%.


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Samuel Smith]

7 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Did you never read about any of those cases were people can't pay their hospital bills? I see them all the time in the news.

A few isolated cases of young tourists on motorbikes.  WTH has that got to do with retirees living here?

[Samuel Smith]

11 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

 

 

It's like in some western countries where lots of people complain about all those expensive migrants.

Ignore the thickies that only read the daily mail ????

[CharlieH]

3 minutes ago, Samuel Smith said:

A few isolated cases of young tourists on motorbikes.  WTH has that got to do with retirees living here?

You need to google "cant pay hospital bills thai visa"  and look at the instances there.  (just for info)

[Jingthing]

considering the state of the pavements here that would seem to be a very sensible insurance

Sure but the vast majority of expats can cover smaller events already out of pocket.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[PatOngo]

1 hour ago, WhatupThailand said:

I have to ask why is it getting so hard for Retirees to stay in Thailand ?  Or for any other long term expats for that matter.

I honestly think they are paranoid because they can't hoodwink us with their constant bull$#!t that they feed the natives, so they try to discourage us financially and by inconvenience.

[andy72]

Frustrating Yes, though in one way when you look at everything it begins to make some sense'

 

Insurance should be a prerequisite, the reason a lot don't have

One the government hospitals were cheap if something occurred we could easily afford it.

Its a numbers game how many have driven insured for 20 years and never had an accident and health insurance is similar especially if your not taking risks

 

Europeans are less likely to be insured because we dont come from that uncivilized culture of the USA

( that will go down well on a predominately American Forum)

 

& whilst hospital care is cheap the older one gets the more visits we have to the doctors that is a global thing

So Thailand recently effected the two tier system we pay more

 

Not unusual Malaysia hospitals charge locals 3 RM Foreigner 100RM for registration quite a disparity At least Thailand's new pricing system is not that harsh.

Yet it has always been a two tiered system Museums etc

 

For many insurance is really going to be a problem with pre existing conditions and age adding a financial burden that may hurt.

 

If its all a con and the local companies that are being recommended that will become clearer soon.

Yes, Thailand has been clearing house most here would say that it was long overdue 

The whole TM30 fiasco not thought through the problems that arise but more probable linked in with the house clearing.
Unfortunately there are many posts here regarding refused entry that are clearly suspicious and those are equally as frustrating as any laws past in trying to understand just what the over all plan is.

Look at the UK they went after benefit claimants to pull back 30 million
Yet at the top end there was tax evasion of 3 Billion
hit the weakest its always the way

So trying to understand what Thailand's intent towards foreigners is quite difficult 

It introduced the elite visa and if we all had the elite we would not give a jot
behind every law change is $$$$ 

 

Its all monetary and its within a 5 year plan 

 

It may be that some Thai firm will give the elderly some form of insurance that will appease it may be useless but not too expensive

If I were to travel to USA and try to get insurance it would be through the roof because even though it is a highly developed nation it has the highest health care costs in the world and the highest gun crime

so once again lets take it into perspective its Thailand health care it is relatively cheap 

 

so there should be less scaremongering about this subject for those who are most affected are probably those who dont need such pressure

Thailand's unpaid bills pale into insignificance if one compares it to the UK NHS unpaid bills
but they need an excuse to reinforce a new  stipulation of residence.
 

I think it is quite consistent for years there has been all such ducking and diving

Agents opening bank accounts in your name moving the money all around 

So they close that loophole make you keep 400k no agent can do that
they are closing all these corruption holes 

& for all those who opened a business with proxy partners i imagine that in the not so distant future your partnerships are going to be scrutinized and everyone is going to have to turn up at some office or other & those ghosts are not going to be that keen to stand at your side


 

 

[bkk6060]

28 minutes ago, Samuel Smith said:

A few isolated cases of young tourists on motorbikes.  WTH has that got to do with retirees living here?

A lot.

I suggest you talk with a representative of one of the major insurance companies or a hospital administrator.

Bangkok Hospital Pattaya for example has had several walk outs just this year tourists and retirees.

Some bills in the million b range.

It happens more then you think.  Just read on this site about the many retirees who claim they are barely getting by on a daily basis and mostly have no insurance.  What they going to do?

It is a real problem not some made up scheme as some think.

[Dumbastheycome]

42 minutes ago, CharlieH said:

The main problem as I see it is the total instability and lack of consistency in most aspects of officialdom. The problem is it can and may well ALL change in the next few weeks months, we see this guy or that guy doing this or that, then he disappears and someone else is the top of the pole.

 

Its not a good scenario but all you can do on shifting sand is watch and wait for the next shift ! Unsettling and not a nice predicament when one is supposed to be relaxing in retirement,instead of each day or week a question of "what now" ?

In my experience  that has always been a frustrating  feature of  the "officialdom" in Thailand but I have come to understand it is  no exclusive to the experience of expats . Even for Thais those shifting sands have a tendency to create reluctance to anything involving or recognizing anything other than a gratuitous monetary opportunity with no inkling of the fact they are only receiving a  minute percentage of what they already acceded to those who control them.

Is the lack of  consistency incidental, accidental, or  deliberate? Whichever it is a  factor of life in Thailand or the entirety of inhabitants.

[amexpat]

The only benefit is to the insurance companies.  Look at the policies and it is clear the hospitals would not get paid or get very, very, little from the required insurance. 

Edited October 11, 2019 by amexpat
typo

[La Migra]

39 minutes ago, CLS said:

This is not a fair comparison. Migrants that steal local jobs are not retirees that only spend money.

What are the requirements for retiree visas in your home country? 

I believe Thailand has a less expensive system, although not sure about less onerous in reporting requirements.  

[Just Weird]

1 hour ago, Thailand said:

It is certainly frustrating with something potentially new on a regular basis to <deleted> up what was a pleasant situation for many years. Most of this seems to be in the the wake of BJ and his ilk.

What new things have come up regularly that makes being in Thailand an "unpleasant situation"?

[dimitriv]

59 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Did you never read about any of those cases were people can't pay their hospital bills? I see them all the time in the news.

 

I saw a lot of cases where people were collecting money to help foreigners who couldn't afford their hospital bills. But in all cases these people would not get treatment without payment. So... This is really their own problem. There were no unpaid hospital bills.

 

[bwpage3]

How many people jumped on the Thailand retirement train, without ever giving a thought that Thailand would change over the course of the years they retired there?

 

Did you really expect Thailand, the land of milk and honey, would stay the same 20 or 30 years on since your retirement?

 

Well, many people must have because they seem ill-prepared for all of the changes coming from the Thai gov't.

 

If a person retired to Thailand 20 or 30 years ago because it was cheap? Well, which country HASN'T got more expensive and had a ton of changes over the last 20 years?

 

There is such a rush when moving to Thailand, specially back in the day, that many people never gave any thought to the future of what could change or how it would affect them personally.

 

I can still remember that rush the first time I visited in 1984 thinking this was really heaven on earth. It took me until the year 2004 to finally move there, and even then, the changes all around Thailand influenced by western marketing and greed were apparent. It was no where near as close to the place I knew in 1984.

 

Over the next 10 years (2004-2014), things just continually got worse. Throw in a couple of floods, droughts, and it was really worse.

 

Thaksin never seemed to care much to bother with expats, however, after his ouster, things really started going down hill. Maybe because he has a PhD from somewhere in Texas, he was a little less concerned with expats mentalities?

 

We all know in Thailand, a Thai official is nothing without money, money, money. Money buys the power! Gov't has become nothing but a club to raid the countries budgets, to enrich themselves at the expense of the nation and the people. (I read 3 out of 4 politicians from Buri Ram were billionaires). Got it now?

 

There are many that really believe they should be afforded special visas, rights, etc. because of their Thai families. I think most people really feel they are a value and to their families they are a big value. However, to the govt the are no value and treated as such.

 

However, as we can see, no one in the govt seems to really care about the welfare of expats at all. They are too busy jockeying for positions to be able to raid the nations budgets, make corrupt military deals, trains, plains, you know the game. Their own goal is to enrich themselves and their families for the rest of their lives.

 

Expats are a threat to that mindset? Why? 

 

Well it is because expats are smart enough to question when the Army buys blimps to use as terrorist search vehicles, that a blimp is useless when you have winds and monsoon rains 6-7 months of the years and they would question that purchase for hundreds of millions of baht. Thai people, are only now, with the advent of younger parties like Future Forward, starting to hold these corrupt Generals accountable for their corruption.

 

Generals with millions of dollars of watches? Yes expats are smart enough to know the truth.

 

Thailand is becoming an expensive country to live and with the changing winds of govt, regulations will continue to change and each govt official is only there for what they can put in their own pockets, not the welfare of the people. I am sure the new insurance requirements falls into this category.

 

Expats with a lot of money, big pensions, etc. will be able to weather the changing tides as necessary. Others, are going to have to tough it out, move, or worse.

 

In 2011, we lost almost everything in the flood. The writing was on the wall and for me, that was a real catalyst that got me thinking about the future. At the time, I was lucky I made the decision to move back to the USA, where I could still land a high paying job and start over.

 

I am quite a few years away from retirement. People are always railing why do people that move away continue to post and follow on TV?

 

Well, the answer is even though I have never given one thought to moving back to Thailand, things could change 10 or 15 years from now and it is a learning experience to read about the changes and how they affect expats in general.

 

Who really can predict what Thailand will be like in another 10 or 15 years? It might get better, it might get worse. 

 

Can only wait and see.

 

The smart thing, is anywhere you move in the world, you should always have a plan B, if that is not your native motherland.

 

The whole Thailand experience for me has really opened my eyes to the importance of saving, pension, retirement accounts, you name it.

Edited October 11, 2019 by bwpage3

[dabhand]

14 minutes ago, dimitriv said:

 

I saw a lot of cases where people were collecting money to help foreigners who couldn't afford their hospital bills. But in all cases these people would not get treatment without payment. So... This is really their own problem. There were no unpaid hospital bills.

 

No unpaid hospital bills? Hmmmm.

 

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/900767-uninsured-foreigners-burdens-thai-public-hospitals/

[sirineou]

1 hour ago, CharlieH said:

The main problem as I see it is the total instability and lack of consistency in most aspects of officialdom. The problem is it can and may well ALL change in the next few weeks months, we see this guy or that guy doing this or that, then he disappears and someone else is the top of the pole.

 

Its not a good scenario but all you can do on shifting sand is watch and wait for the next shift ! Unsettling and not a nice predicament when one is supposed to be relaxing in retirement,instead of each day or week a question of "what now" ?

Absolutely right.

Have build a nice home here, Love Thailand , love the Thai people, love and miss my Thai family when we are not there. 13 years now, never had a major problem with Thailand and the Thai people. not to say I never had problems , but nothing I could not handle or put in proper perspective. 

In order for people to make long term decisions there need to be some consistency and some certainty. 

Consistency was never certain but it seem that lately it is becoming progressively more uncertain. Every day I read the news there seem to be a ne announcement.

  Do I need this in my golden years? when consistency is more important?

A letter has already being sent to the Greek embassy  for exploring my options concerning medical coverage there. ( I have the option of Greek citizenship but have not lived there since early childhood, and never worked or contributed to the system there)  and paperwork was being send to friends there to also explore my options, and my wife's ability to also get Greek citizenship.

Greece is halfway between Thailand and the US , so easier to travel to the US from there and to Thailand from there. We will keep our Thai home as a vacation home. And keep am eye on developments.

Thailand will always be in my future but perhaps not in the same way I thought  it would be.

 

[CLS]

What are the requirements for retiree visas in your home country? 
I believe Thailand has a less expensive system, although not sure about less onerous in reporting requirements.  

There are no retirement visa in my home country. But that’s not the point.

But there is a spouse visa/ settlement visa with no financial requirements. Citizenship after 5 years. Unheard of in this country.

Health insurance mandatory for all residents, no dual pricing. Same premiums for all over 25. No pre-existing conditions excluded.


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app